What do you think about this situation?

[mazakaal]

What would you think of an individual (S) who picked up someone else's (P) video camera, brought it into the bathroom, and video taped the stream of his ur*ne (not his privates) as he narrated, then returned the camera to its original spot?

 

When P got home he gave the tape to someone to edit (not having looked at it, so he had no idea what S had done). The guy returned it to P saying that he couldn't edit someone's f*tishes. Apparently the guy wasn't upset and P was able to explain everything. No harm, no foul. Everyone is laughing about it now.

 

Personally I feel like this shows an extreme lack of judgement. S volunteers in our Sunday school, assisting his wife with a group of 4-10yos. After this latest incident I question whether he is actually mature enough (though he is 30 or 31 years old) to be in this position.

 

I don't know if I'm overreacting or not. What do you think?

 

ETA: After reading your responses, I resolved on discussing the matter with the pastor tonight. He'll be here at the house anyway. When I told dh of my intentions, he said that he thinks that I'm totally overreacting. Could you guys ask your dh's what their take on the situation is? Thanks.

Edited December 5, 2008 by MeganP
new information

[Scarlett]

What would you think of an individual (S) who picked up someone else's (P) video camera, brought it into the bathroom, and video taped the stream of his ur*ne (not his privates) as he narrated, then returned the camera to its original spot?

 

When P got home he gave the tape to someone to edit (not having looked at it, so he had no idea what S had done). The guy returned it to P saying that he couldn't edit someone's f*tishes. Apparently the guy wasn't upset and P was able to explain everything. No harm, no foul. Everyone is laughing about it now.

 

Personally I feel like this shows an extreme lack of judgement. S volunteers in our Sunday school, assisting his wife with a group of 4-10yos. After this latest incident I question whether he is actually mature enough (though he is 30 or 31 years old) to be in this position.

 

I don't know if I'm overreacting or not. What do you think?

 

I think at the very least that is juvenile behavior...when I first started reading I thought that would be a 8 or 9 year old doing that. Ugh. Disgusting.

 

I wouldn't want him teaching my child. But I could be over reacting too.

[Ria]

Are you actually saying that an adult did this? ETA: If an adult - someone involved in a Sunday school class of children - did this, I'd take that tape straight to the pastor. Yep. Straight away. And I'd ask that the guy be removed. I don't find this funny. I think it's very disturbing.

 

Ria

[Peek a Boo]

oh man.....

i had a friend [A] whose sister had to replace A's digital camera.....cuz it fell in the bathtub......:lol:

:lurk5:

[Peek a Boo]

What would you think of an individual (S) who picked up someone else's (P) video camera, brought it into the bathroom, and video taped the stream of his ur*ne (not his privates) as he narrated, then returned the camera to its original spot?

 

. S volunteers in our Sunday school, assisting his wife with a group of 4-10yos. After this latest incident I question whether he is actually mature enough (though he is 30 or 31 years old) to be in this position.

 

I don't know if I'm overreacting or not. What do you think?

 

 

and to answer your Q --i would report it to the pastor and the elders.

This is NOT someone that i would want working w/ my kids. Of ANY age.

[mazakaal]

oh man.....

i had a friend [A] whose sister had to replace A's digital camera.....cuz it fell in the bathtub......:lol:

:lurk5:

 

At first I thought, 'what does that have to do with my post?' focusing on the replacing a camera part of your story. Then the light bulb went on. :lol:

[Diana in OR]

I thought you were going to say it was a kid's prank or something. *Maybe* middle school at the oldest.

 

I agree it shows a huge lack of judgement and maturity. I wouldn't want this person teaching my dc, but I don't know if I would make a big deal out of this one incident, but I'd be watching closely to see if this is a pattern of behavior or just a one time lack of judgement.

[elegantlion]

Are you actually saying that an adult did this? ETA: If an adult - someone involved in a Sunday school class of children - did this, I'd take that tape straight to the pastor. Yep. Straight away. And I'd ask that the guy be removed. I don't find this funny. I think it's very disturbing.

 

Ria

 

:iagree:

[Jean in Newcastle]

I think it shows a lack of judgment. He meant it as a joke - a pretty juvenile joke at that. I thought you were talking about a child too - maybe as old as 11! But as the editor pointed out, this kind of thing is (remarkably) part of f*tishes and you could actually get into trouble. I'm remembering right now the case in which a mom videoed her dd innocently using a shower massage and it led to her being reported to the police for shooting p*rn. (This was in our local newspaper a few years ago). As to his being in charge of children, it sounds like his wife is there too. But I would have some questions about someone that immature being in that sort of position.

[mazakaal]

I'd be watching closely to see if this is a pattern of behavior or just a one time lack of judgement.

 

It's definitely a pattern of behavior, though he's never done anything quite this disgusting as far as I know.

 

Recently at a conference, our pastor had to tell off S and a bunch of 18-21yos for being too loud and roudy at 2am. No one could sleep. You kind of expect it from the 18-21yos, but by 31yo?....

 

And that is just one of a looooooong list of foolishness.

[Peek a Boo]

It's definitely a pattern of behavior, though he's never done anything quite this disgusting as far as I know.

 

Recently at a conference, our pastor had to tell off S and a bunch of 18-21yos for being too loud and roudy at 2am. No one could sleep. You kind of expect it from the 18-21yos, but by 31yo?....

 

And that is just one of a looooooong list of foolishness.

 

so this guy has an ESCALATING pattern of behavior that is unacceptable, AND the pastor already knows about it. i would definitely call a meeting and drag this into the light --and show the darn video or bring in the editor to describe what they saw. This guy has to go. pronto.

[Michelle T]

but it sounds like the sort of thing my DH might do, or at least think was funny. DH has raging ADHD, and tends to do stupid, impulsive things because he thinks they are funny, without being able to see potential consequences. I can't tell you how many times I've been embarrassed by him. I really doubt he'd do something like this in a church, though.

 

Just for the record, DH does NOT have any sort of fetishes, never has actually filmed his pee on someone else's camera (that I know of) and is perfectly safe with kids. He just tends to have an immature, impulsive sense of humor.

 

And by the way, my DH is 43.

MichelleT

[Tonia]

Are you actually saying that an adult did this? ETA: If an adult - someone involved in a Sunday school class of children - did this, I'd take that tape straight to the pastor. Yep. Straight away. And I'd ask that the guy be removed. I don't find this funny. I think it's very disturbing.

 

Ria

 

:iagree:

 

I would find behaviour like that extremely disturbing - especially someone in a leadership position in a church. I would take it to the pastor. I wouldn't want someone like that teaching in my child's class.

[Quiver0f10]

Are you actually saying that an adult did this? ETA: If an adult - someone involved in a Sunday school class of children - did this, I'd take that tape straight to the pastor. Yep. Straight away. And I'd ask that the guy be removed. I don't find this funny. I think it's very disturbing.

 

Ria

 

Once again :iagree: with Ria.

[Mad Jenny Flint]

While the gut-level response is more of a 'wwwWHAT?' If I think on it rationally, it is more likely a serious lack of judgment than anything truly pathological. However, I am not sure that I want someone with problems making thoughtful and considered decisions in charge of children. I don't necessarily agree that he needs to be immediately removed from his position, but that he needs to be called on the carpet and warned that any future shenanigans will be grounds for swift action in that direction.

[coffeefreak]

EWWWWWW! I am speechless!!!! I agree, report him and don't let your children be left alone with him.

[Harriet Vane]

I would consider it completely, totally unacceptable for this person to serve in any part of the children's ministry. I have served as director over two different children's ministries, at two different churches, and this incident is so far over the boundary of what is acceptable that it would mean an automatic removal from children's ministry for all time. It is not just impulsive and immature, it has s@xual red flags all over it--this combination is bad and our children are too precious to risk it.

 

Edited to add: I would also made darned sure the pastor and elders knew of this and agreed to the ban in children's ministry.

Edited December 5, 2008 by strider

[Laurie4b]

This person is a potential liability. Who knows what else he might do? Even if not meant directly to harm, you know this person "lacks judgment."

 

Lack of judgment is a good reason to not have someone working with kids. It is in fact, one of the questions on the reference check we do at our church for potential volunteers: "How is this person's judgment?" Someone with poor judgment wouldn't be allowed to volunteer. It's risk management, plain and simple. It doesn't matter if this was a fetish or was just incredibly juvenile humor, it is poor judgment. Having his wife in there is not much of a safeguard. While some women married to a man like this might guard him very carefully, others might excuse a lot of his behavior.

 

Definitely let the leaders of your church know about it.

[Peek a Boo]

but it sounds like the sort of thing my DH might do, or at least think was funny. DH has raging ADHD, and tends to do stupid, impulsive things because he thinks they are funny, without being able to see potential consequences. I can't tell you how many times I've been embarrassed by him. I really doubt he'd do something like this in a church, though.

 

Just for the record, DH does NOT have any sort of fetishes, never has actually filmed his pee on someone else's camera (that I know of) and is perfectly safe with kids. He just tends to have an immature, impulsive sense of humor.

 

And by the way, my DH is 43.

MichelleT

 

 

as someone who was racing shopping carts full of kids down the main aisle w/ her 46yo dh at WalMart last night, i totally get your dh ;)

immature humor is a standard here at our house: we don't have rules about burping at the [family!] table or breaking into weird songs at inopportune times, lol.

 

HOWEVER, it's not the impulsive immaturity that bothers me. It's the videotaping of something so absolutely vulgar AS HE NARRATES to be seen by unknown persons. and btw, I'm almost interested in knowing WHAT he was narrating....???

 

It's not that he needs to be kicked out of CHURCH, but absolutely reprimanded and removed from CHILDREN's ministry ASAP.

[bettyandbob]

that is insane. I don't think I'd say this behavior is suggestive of a pedophile. However, this behavior is suggestive of someone who does not have the judgement to be leading a group of children. Someone without impulse control is more likely to forgo safety precautions in the name of fun--let's try to sled jump over the creek, oh look bungy jumping quick youth group let's get in line. I especially see a danger with an adult with impulse issues working with teens, since teens have impulse issues and don't think through dangerous activities, they don't need an adult around who says "yeah, sounds cool to me."

[lionfamily1999]

So, did he know who the camera belonged to? Was this supposed to be a joke on your "dh" specifically, or did he just grab a random camera?

 

I ask because, sometimes, men can revert back into teenagehood and do incredibly stupid, sick, wierd things, when they think they're only going to be seen by their buddies.

 

Either way, it's sick, wierd, gross, etc.... But, if he was just grabbing a random camera, that's also creepy and seems more exhibitionist than otherwise. If it was a joke, specifically on your dh, then let your dh handle it. If not, then I would report it to the leaders of the church.

[katilac]

Honestly, this strikes me as a very common 'guy' think to do. I'm assuming P is also an adult? It strikes me as juvenile and tacky but not a big deal, really. Being too loud at a youth conference doesn't even go 'blip' on my radar.

 

I can certainly see why the other person wouldn't edit it, lol, but it sounds like a dumb prank more than anything. He wasn't secretly making a tape for his private use; he knew S would see it at some point and know who did it (and be embarrassed, the whole point of the prank, I'm sure). This is stupid behavior, not 'fetish' behavior.

 

btw, how did he narrate without S noticing? Does S normally have voice-over for his calls of nature, *g*?

 

I do think you're overreacting, unless there's info you didn't share in your post. Unless it occurred at a youth activity, I wouldn't see it as anything to bring up with the pastor. The original post sounds like it's something that happened between P and S, and you and others heard about it later.

[mazakaal]

So, did he know who the camera belonged to? Was this supposed to be a joke on your "dh" specifically, or did he just grab a random camera?

 

I ask because, sometimes, men can revert back into teenagehood and do incredibly stupid, sick, wierd things, when they think they're only going to be seen by their buddies.

 

Either way, it's sick, wierd, gross, etc.... But, if he was just grabbing a random camera, that's also creepy and seems more exhibitionist than otherwise. If it was a joke, specifically on your dh, then let your dh handle it. If not, then I would report it to the leaders of the church.

 

It wasn't dh's camera. It was the camera of a mutual friend. Yes, it was just meant to be a joke on P, but S had no way of knowing who would end up seeing it, as evidenced by the results with the editor. In addition, P has children. They could just have easily have been the first ones to see it. And, yes, S does know that P has children.

[Tammyla]

:iagree:

 

Are you actually saying that an adult did this? ETA: If an adult - someone involved in a Sunday school class of children - did this, I'd take that tape straight to the pastor. Yep. Straight away. And I'd ask that the guy be removed. I don't find this funny. I think it's very disturbing.

 

Ria

[lionfamily1999]

It wasn't dh's camera. It was the camera of a mutual friend. Yes, it was just meant to be a joke on P, but S had no way of knowing who would end up seeing it, as evidenced by the results with the editor. In addition, P has children. They could just have easily have been the first ones to see it. And, yes, S does know that P has children.

Last month one of my husband's childhood chums set his rear-end on fire attempting to light a fart. He's not a deviant or anything, just a guy who becomes a moron when his buddies come around. That's why I asked whether or not it was directed specifically at your dh. As much as men get credit for being dopey around pretty women, they lose even more iq points around their friends.

 

If it bothers you so much, then by all means turn him in. If, however, he is your husband's friend, then you may want to let your dh handle it, if only to keep from being 'that woman' that tried to come between them (eye rolling eye rolling eye rolling).

[jojomojo]

This person is a potential liability. Who knows what else he might do? Even if not meant directly to harm, you know this person "lacks judgment."

 

Lack of judgment is a good reason to not have someone working with kids. It is in fact, one of the questions on the reference check we do at our church for potential volunteers: "How is this person's judgment?" Someone with poor judgment wouldn't be allowed to volunteer. It's risk management, plain and simple. It doesn't matter if this was a fetish or was just incredibly juvenile humor, it is poor judgment. Having his wife in there is not much of a safeguard. While some women married to a man like this might guard him very carefully, others might excuse a lot of his behavior.

 

Definitely let the leaders of your church know about it.

 

:iagree:

 

What if one of the 10 yr olds in his group did that, even if it was just meant for a buddy to see? I don't think the man has any place in youth ministries. How can he be a good role model if he is acting like a kid at 2 AM so the pastor has to ask him to keep it down or filming himself urinate on someones elses camera as a prank? I wouldn't leave my kids in a group with such leaders....

Edited December 5, 2008 by jojomojo

[SquirrellyMama]

I don't think you are overracting. Although I agree with another poster who said to let your dh handle it. I know you said he thinks you are overreacting but maybe you can at least convince him to talk with his friend and give him a warning.

 

It would have been one thing to tape it and then show it to his friends but to tape it on someone else's camera where a child could see it is just wrong.

 

I believe this showed very poor judgement and I think he should be warned that if something like this happens again he won't be teaching the kids. Not because I think he'll do something disgusting to a child but for the lack of a good example.

 

About the hotel incident. I know that being loud at 2am doesn't seem like a harmful thing either but it just shows a lack of concern for others.

 

It sounds like this guy only thinks of his own desires and what will make him laugh.

 

Kelly

[AnnetteB]

I'm speechless. That guy would never be left alone with my children. I expect much more maturity and wisdom from a man.

[SonshineLearner]

That is just foolishness and a fool (which is one who is consistently foolish) shouldn't be teaching children or adults!

I'd say he wouldn't be teaching my children.

:-)

[Cricket]

That is just foolishness and a fool (which is one who is consistently foolish) shouldn't be teaching children or adults!

I'd say he wouldn't be teaching my children.

:-)

 

:iagree: I don't think that what he did was dangerous. It's more along the lines of frat boy-type humor. (I use "humor" lightly because I wouldn't find it funny at all. But then again, I'm not a guy.) But it does show foolish, immature behavior and, especially in light of other foolish behavior, I wouldn't want him teaching my kids either.

[Ria]

Honestly, this strikes me as a very common 'guy' thing to do.

 

 

Are you serious? I don't know any man who would do this, think of doing this, or find this in the normal range of behavior. Not one single man.

 

Ria

[Jean in Newcastle]

That is just foolishness and a fool (which is one who is consistently foolish) shouldn't be teaching children or adults!

I'd say he wouldn't be teaching my children.

:-)

 

I agree with this. This is in the context of teaching and providing guidance in the church where the teachers should be teaching the children (or adults) to love the Lord and to live the Christian life. I think God has a sense of humor and I think that He doesn't have a problem with silliness either. But foolishness is different from being silly or genuinely funny. And this behavior and his pattern of behavior is that of foolishness. And the Bible speaks very strongly against foolishness.

[lionfamily1999]

Are you serious? I don't know any man who would do this, think of doing this, or find this in the normal range of behavior. Not one single man.

 

Ria

I think my husband would laugh till he cried if he'd read this story. At the same time, if HIS friend did this, and it went to the extent it did, he would be embarrassed and pretty ticked off.

[mazakaal]

Thank you for all the responses. Dh actually approached our pastor tonight and told him that I wanted to talk to him about the incident. The pastor already knew about the incident. I expressed my concern about S's judgement and ability to work with children and suggested that he talk to the elders about what they think. We discussed the whole thing openly. I was able to share my feelings. The pastor is not conviced that he should bring this before the elders. He is going to pray about it. If nothing else, he is going to give S a long talking to and a warning. We'll see what happens.

 

BTW, I hadn't been given the complete story. Apparently P had asked S to videotape an event that was happening. He felt the call of nature and while he was in the bathroom thought it would be funny to film. It made me feel slightly better that it was completely spur of the moment. He did not think to himself, "What can I do with P's video camera that would be really funny? Oh, I know! I'll...." Still shows lack of judgement, but not quite as bad as I originally thought.

[Desert Rat]

Hmmm....was there malicious intent? Is it fetish behavior? I think it's just a guy thing. Yes, it's not tasteful, even gross. But, IMHO, I wouldn't do much other than to say, that ain't cool, bucko, use your own camera. If it were me, I wouldn't get that upset about it but then I hung out with more boys than girls growing up and live in house where I am the only girl so I guess I'm used to boyish behavior.

I'm sorry that you were really upset by this though. I understand how some situations can be really uncomfortable. This is just my take on it.

[Michelle T]

Are you serious? I don't know any man who would do this, think of doing this, or find this in the normal range of behavior. Not one single man.

 

Ria

 

 

My DH and DS are very active in the YMCA Indian Guides (now Y-Guides) and Trailblazer programs and go on several camping trips per year. All men and their sons. Believe me, the stories I hear about the crude, juvenile, potty-talk jokes and pranks leave me shaking my head in disbelief! Farts are one of the main forms of entertainment on these trips. And these are all adult men, professional men, college-educated guys.

 

Never underestimate the appeal of crudity, fart humor, and similar stuff in a group of all men. I've known quite a lot of men who appear to be straight-laced, button-down, mature adult men, but when they are around only other men in a casual group, the truth comes out!

 

The peeing on film thing is a bit much, but honestly, doesn't sound even remotely sexual, dangerous, fetish, child harming, or anything beyond a guy being stupid, immature, impulsive. I might recommend him not teaching in the church, but I wouldn't assume he was some sort of child molester.

Michelle T

[Ria]

Never underestimate the appeal of crudity, fart humor, and similar stuff in a group of all men. I've known quite a lot of men who appear to be straight-laced, button-down, mature adult men, but when they are around only other men in a casual group, the truth comes out!

 

Oh, my. LOL. Who knew?

 

Ria

[Peek a Boo]

My DH and DS are very active in the YMCA Indian Guides (now Y-Guides) and Trailblazer programs and go on several camping trips per year. All men and their sons. Believe me, the stories I hear about the crude, juvenile, potty-talk jokes and pranks leave me shaking my head in disbelief! Farts are one of the main forms of entertainment on these trips. And these are all adult men, professional men, college-educated guys.

 

Never underestimate the appeal of crudity, fart humor, and similar stuff in a group of all men. I've known quite a lot of men who appear to be straight-laced, button-down, mature adult men, but when they are around only other men in a casual group, the truth comes out!

 

The peeing on film thing is a bit much, but honestly, doesn't sound even remotely sexual, dangerous, fetish, child harming, or anything beyond a guy being stupid, immature, impulsive. I might recommend him not teaching in the church, but I wouldn't assume he was some sort of child molester.

Michelle T

 

with all due respect, even MY dh knows when juvenile crappy humor goes too far. he wasn't laughing at this either.

 

I'm not saying he's a child molestor, but since guys ARE prone to such crude humor, they need some Better models of MEN that know how to keep the jokes in check. THAT's why I wouldn't let this guy teach. i also wouldn't invite him over anymore --and yeah, I'd put my foot down over it [and have] if the pattern of behavior was THAT foolish and i have kids watching.

 

When we were shopping for scout troops, we eliminated a couple based on this type of stuff.

 

But we each have our own ideas of what's acceptable and what's not.:D

[Peek a Boo]

The pastor is not conviced that he should bring this before the elders. He is going to pray about it. If nothing else, he is going to give S a long talking to and a warning. We'll see what happens.

 

 

hasn't this guy ALREADY been given warnings?

The elders are there to offer PERSPECTIVE -- I would absolutely take it to the elders if the pastor won't. The old "multitude of counselors" thing.

Your pastor sounds like he's getting pretty used to this guy's stuff.

frog/ boiling water.

 

but either way, good luck......

[katilac]

Are you serious? I don't know any man who would do this, think of doing this, or find this in the normal range of behavior. Not one single man.

 

Ria

 

I'd really be interested if your dh feels the same (that he doesn't know one single man who would even think of doing this). Ask him; inquiring minds want to know! :lol:

[Miss Sherry]

I have to agree, that from what I have heard about "guys" and their silly pranks this doesn't sound like the worst thing I have heard. It's goofy and immature but I certainly wouldn't think of it as having any sexual connotation at all unless there was something else in his behavior or something else said that indicates a problem.

Of course, not all men , even when they were very young, would have ever been prone to do these types of pranks, but there are always a few, it seems , if the group is big enough, with a silly sense of humor.

 

My son was homeschooled, but played basketball for the local public high school. Some really goofy things were done by some of the high school boys on the out-of-town trips the team made.

One "fiesty" boy that was being a bully to other kids was put in a dark closet by the other "fed Up" boys and then they threw another kid in there with him and locked them both in there together.

My son is not as much of a follower as a lot of those kids were and told these boys NOT to do this. They didn't listen.

 

This bully that was in the closet panicked when they threw the other kid in and started swinging and punching so the second kid fought back and put him in a head lock. Unfortunatley, he passed out before the other goofy kids opened the door. My son, one of the few with any sense (not bragging but I think NOT being with peers for years on end helped in this sense ) told them they needed to call an ambulance. Which they did. The police also came.

I could tell more stories but this is getting too long.

Although I understand your frustration I do think goofy pranks are fairly common if you get around enough guys in a group, but although they are foolish, they are not necessarily "evil" or sexual.

A sense of humor can be very refreshing and a welcome characteristic in men. But it sounds like this man needs to think about channeling his humor in another direction.

Perhaps he meant this "joke" to remain a "joke" between himself and the person he did it too ? Why do you know ?

I think the reason some women don't hear about these types of pranks is some guys do these things amongst themselves and don't yak about them to everyone else.

They probably don't even tell the wives who they know would be horrified. LOL

 

 

Are you serious? I don't know any man who would do this, think of doing this, or find this in the normal range of behavior. Not one single man.

 

Ria

[emeraldjoy]

I have learned after 10 years of marriage and two sons that there is this wierd phenomenon that happens with *boys* and peeing. Tis wierd, I know, and impossible to understand as a woman, but, as far as I can tell, some sort of instinct or inherent quality of testosterone (laughing here) or something......???????? Really.......peeing in snow, peeing in the alley, peeing on my stove (not my hubby but my 2 year old boy), etc.

 

I read in a man directed magazine once a few years back about these new specialized toilets that had video game machines attatched so that the user could use his stream of urine to play....I am not at all kidding!!!

 

Anyway, I may be divulging too much info here....but, although I would probably be quite upset if this situation happened around here, I think it is, at worst, immature and, at best, instinctual (said very, very loosely).

 

Emerald

Edited December 6, 2008 by emeraldjoy

[Peek a Boo]

I'd really be interested if your dh feels the same (that he doesn't know one single man who would even think of doing this). Ask him; inquiring minds want to know! :lol:

i think the point is: yeah, we might KNOW guys that do this stuff [and that kids are prone to weird stuff anyway -like the above closet scenario] -but we ACT to make sure this stuff isn't modeled as something to be taken too far.

[Blessedfamily]

I understand "guys" do this, but I would not find it acceptable if a grown man did it: especially if he was a leader to other young men at church.

 

Maybe he could put foolishness aside for his church responsibilities, but it seems he has shown poor judgemnt before.

 

I wouldn't mind my son having a role model who is light-hearted and fun. In fact, they're almost essential. Crude humour and crude pranks are not ideal qualities in a church youth leader.

[Murphy101]

Well I don't know if it was sexual in nature or not.

But everyone seems to be in agreement that it is crude, rude, inappropirate and immature.

And no, I do not think a grown man that is crude, rude, inappropriate and immature should be in charge of a youth group.

Bottom line is I wouldn't feel I could trust such a man to make sound, safe, rational, christian judgements while in charge of my child.

 

My dh assures me there are many such men (and women too for that matter) in the world. We both agree that's irrelivant. Just because many people might be foolish does not mean I should let the foolish lead my children. esp in religious matters!

[lionfamily1999]

I'm really surprised by the concrete responses to this. At first, I thought they were just reactionary, knee-jerk answers, but it seems they were thought out. Really, you would kick someone out of church over something this benign and stupid? You would demand action and hearings with elders and everything else? Isn't that overreacting just a wee bit? It was not porn. He did not show his "thingy". It was a stupid practical joke, played on a friend, by someone that does not seem to have a lot of experience with the words "not funny". WWJD? I would imagine, roll his eyes, shake his head and move on.

 

But then, I guess I should not be so surprised. It seems like there are a few cautious answers, a few even-minded answers, in every forum, and then an eruption of "I'm right" "Your wrong" "You are sending this country/system/etc to hell in a hand-basket" "I'm good" "You are bad" etc.

 

I'm going to continue to assume that most people are more even tempered and understanding in "real life" and that this is just another example of allowing your deeper held thoughts free reign because this is cyber space. Honestly, I'm really disappointed at what I've found in the homeschooling world. I expected more open-mindedness, less knee-jerk reactions, more thought, more understanding, less hate. But it turns out that homeschooling is just like high school, only the teachers are also the cheerleaders, the cliques are made up of people with better vocabularies. Woohoo.

[Murphy101]

actually, I don't think anyone said they'd kick him out of the church.

 

simply that he is not appropriate leadership for children in the youth group.

 

as for wwjd - it's hubris to claim to know the mind of God, but I'll venture:

 

#1 Jesus would make a better decision because Jesus knows exactly what is going through the guy's brain and we do not have that ability. Jesus did condemn more than a few folks because he knew their hearts/minds.

 

#2 i would think Jesus would want children to be guided properly in their faith to Him by one who is mature and knowledgeable of that faith and this fellow is not displaying such qualities.

[lionfamily1999]

actually, I don't think anyone said they'd kick him out of the church.

 

simply that he is not appropriate leadership for children in the youth group.

 

as for wwjd - it's hubris to claim to know the mind of God, but I'll venture:

 

#1 Jesus would make a better decision because Jesus knows exactly what is going through the guy's brain and we do not have that ability. Jesus did condemn more than a few folks because he knew their hearts/minds.

 

#2 i would think Jesus would want children to be guided properly in their faith to Him by one who is mature and knowledgeable of that faith and this fellow is not displaying such qualities.

Sarcasm does not translate well into print, and I keep forgetting that. I've been getting WWJD as answers to so many of my problems lately that it was the first thing that popped into my head. Sorry for the hubris.

 

(Okay, now this is a joke, but I'm not good with the smilies and things)

 

I guess I should have known a joke would not go over well on this thread.

 

(Now laugh, chuckle, roll your eyes, or condemn me to an eternity of childish behavior)

 

I do think that when people form an opinion, regarding the actions of someone else, especially someone they do not know, they should assume the best of that person. Because we do NOT know the hearts and minds of eachother, we should assume that their intentions were not to hurt or maim, emotionally or physically, another person. There are plenty of times when it is safe to say they MEANT to do something cruel, devious, nasty, mean, but otherwise, the benefit of the doubt is one that should be afforded most people.

[lionfamily1999]

Holy cats! That first post, the one that you responded to, was not meant to you personally, although this one is. I posted it as a general response to all the other posts I'd read.

 

Sorry for any confusion.

[Murphy101]

Sarcasm does not translate well into print, and I keep forgetting that. I've been getting WWJD as answers to so many of my problems lately that it was the first thing that popped into my head. Sorry for the hubris.

 

(Okay, now this is a joke, but I'm not good with the smilies and things)

 

I guess I should have known a joke would not go over well on this thread.

 

(Now laugh, chuckle, roll your eyes, or condemn me to an eternity of childish behavior)

 

oh. okay. the general tone of your post didn't come across as sarcastic, so I took it as a general (not neccessarily directed at me personally) genuine comment.

 

my mistake.:)

 

I do think that when people form an opinion, regarding the actions of someone else, especially someone they do not know, they should assume the best of that person. Because we do NOT know the hearts and minds of eachother, .... the benefit of the doubt is one that should be afforded most people.

 

Oh and I agree! Like I wrote, I don't know if it had sexual issues or not and I don't have Jesus' advantage of knowing his mind/heart.

 

But when it comes to our kids, doubt can be extended from a distance or with caution. I can only judge by his actions that at the least he is far too immature and impulsive to be in charge of a youth group. (keep in mind, the OP says this is not a single questionable event or unusual type of thing for this fellow.) That doesn't neccessarily mean he's a terrible person, just not a person properly suited for that particuliar job.:)