Socially Awkward DC- Sharing academic joy versus hiding academic success

[Mandy in TN]

This is sort of a spin-off from the emotions thread.

Scuff said, “emotions I see that were mentioned: socially awkward; not fitting in with most kids; not understanding why others don't understand things or share your desire to learn; talking at people (adults mostly), spouting off all you know; ectâ€

My youngest has not been tested, but he is definitely mathematically accelerated. Just recently he has realized that others his age or even older are not working on the same math that he is.

We do go to the Kumon Center where there are a number of mathematically accelerated young students. However, I don’t like the attitude that I see in some of these students. They actually say things like, “I’m smarter than you.†or “You’re still on that level.â€

We have talked to ds about people being good at different things. For example, we pointed out that while he is good with numbers another child may be really good at swimming, but discernment in social situations can be difficult even for adults. While I don’t see any benefit in hiding something that you are good at and enjoy, I also don’t see any benefit in making others feel bad. Where is the balance?

A swimmer, even an athletically gifted 6yo, can casually say to a much older child who is working on breaststroke, “The breaststroke is easy, but I remember when I was learning it. It was hard then.†This comment in no way sounds snotty, but when a mathematically accelerated 6yo makes an identical statement to a much older child, “That level of math is easy, but I remember learning it. It was hard then.†This statement causes the older child to get up and leave the company of the younger child.

My ds also has two teenage brothers who are very encouraging. They say things like, “You’re only 6. Keep working and it will come to you.†or “Just keep trying. You’ll figure it out.†These statements sound so sweet coming from a teenager to a little brother; however, they sound arrogant coming from a 6yo to an older child or even a peer. How do you explain that these statements that are comforting to him coming from his older brothers are not going to be comforting coming from him to another child.

Again, where is the balance? I would never want to in any way imply that doing well in an academic subject is something to hide, but this is especially difficult when we live in a society where it is acceptable to gush about how your child is one of the best players on the soccer team but not acceptable to gush about academic acceleration.

My ds is in multi-age academic environments at least 3 days/ wk. Does anyone have insight on how to he can engage in conversation without bragging and without making him feel like being ahead is a bad thing that he needs to hide?

How does an academically accelerated child share what he enjoys without hurting others or being (at best) socially awkward? How do you handle these situations with your dc?

Mandy

[LisaKinVA]

Unfortunately, I haven't found a great way to deal with this. My children have been instructed to always applaud the acheivements of their friends whatever they are (even when dd is doing division and adding/subtracting fractions and her friends are learning their addition/subtraction facts), but simply not talk about what they are doing, reading, etc.

 

It's a difficult path. But so far, my children have understood that other children and adults might not understand why they are learning exponents when other children in their grade are doing long multiplication and division with one divisor....

 

We try to reinforce that everyone learns at their own speed, and that sometimes things come easier for some and are more difficult for others. And we never want to make anyone feel badly about what they are learning or compare ourselves to anyone else.

 

So far, so good. Although things get a little more sticky when we're visiting the cousins (okay, a LOT more sticky).

[nova mama]

I also try to encourage my children to say things that will bless the hearer. When they say things to each other like "I can do x but you don't know how yet," I ask them whether they think that statement is helpful to the other child. I'm trying to teach them to think before speaking (something I haven't quite learned myself :)).

 

It sounds like your teenagers have the right idea. The encouragement is about the hearer "You'll figure it out" and not about the speaker "I figured it out." You must be doing something right!

[Nan in Mass]

The people I know definately wouldn't think it was ok to talk about the sports achievements of their children unless they were really close friends or family. Or the academic achievements. Or any other sort of achievements. If it were really necessary, they would say something like, "My son actually turns out to be rather good at soccer" in an apologetic way.

 

I just told my children that other children, especially older children, might not like it if they said they were good at something, that it would seem like bragging. I didn't worry about my children feeling like they had to hide their achievements because I WANT them to hide their achievements, ALL their achievements, sports, academics, and all. It doesn't seem polite to not hide them. I want them to blend in, for the sake of politeness. And if a child said something to my children similar to the Kumon children, I would point out (later) that the child was being rude. Maybe because it was presented as a politeness and not anything to do with being better at something, it never seemed to have any bad effect on my children's self-image. I guess I also suggested that if you want to find out if someone shares your interest in something, you begin by saying something like, "Do you like chess?" I also pointed out that it isn't polite, if someone offers to play with you, to beat them in the first few moves, that that makes them feel badly.

 

It is a problem, though, isn't it?

-Nan

[Kay in Cal]

I think this just goes with the territory. We've worked hard on ds6 and appropriate statments, but the truth is it must be hard not to say, "Yeah, I'm smart" when adults constantly tell you that. We went to the doctor the other day, and he was told he was smart by a woman in the waiting room, a receptionist, an x-ray technician and the doctor himself. Often these comments are addressed to me as the parent, as in "Wow! Your son is so smart!" Years ago I asked about this on the board, and everyone said that people will stop commenting as he gets older. Not yet, unfortunately.

 

I struggle to get him not to answer things like "Yes, I know I am." It sounds cocky, no matter what the intent.

 

Frankly, even as an adult compliments are tricky things. I do occasionally have people tell me that I'm smart. Generally I smile and say, "I'm happy to hear you think so. I don't always feel that way." But still, I feel weird and I'm not sure how to handle it--so why wouldn't a 6 year old have a hard time dealing with it gracefully. Now if someone tells me I look nice, I'm all about the "Thanks!" and can take it without a second thought.

 

All that to say, I think some of these issues will eventually go away. Social graces simply don't keep up with intellectual development in these asynchronous kids. Model what you want, and hope it sticks. Some day, it will. When they reach adulthood, at the very least.

[stripe]

A swimmer, even an athletically gifted 6yo, can casually say to a much older child who is working on breaststroke, “The breaststroke is easy, but I remember when I was learning it. It was hard then.” This comment in no way sounds snotty,

Well, I would tend to disagree. I would be annoyed, or at least taken aback, if a 6 year old said that to me; it sounds condescending.

 

 

My ds also has two teenage brothers who are very encouraging. They say things like, “You’re only 6. Keep working and it will come to you.” or “Just keep trying. You’ll figure it out.” These statements sound so sweet coming from a teenager to a little brother; however, they sound arrogant coming from a 6yo to an older child or even a peer. How do you explain that these statements that are comforting to him coming from his older brothers are not going to be comforting coming from him to another child.

 

I think you need to explain to your child that there is an assumption of age/intellect parity, and for an older person to offer comfort to a younger person is okay because it's understood that the younger person is still learning and has not reached the stage where the younger one can accomplish that task. But when it comes to a young whippersnapper "comforting" a much older person, or even someone of the same age, it can often be inappropriate, because it suggests that the younger person sees him-/herself as superior/more accomplished/more advanced.

 

(As an example, I bristle at the ad on TV with the kids smartly giving their frazzled parents instructions on how to use the text message feature of their cell phones, and gamely encouraging them that they can do it. It makes the parents look incompetent in the extreme, and the "reassurance" of the children is a bit smug.)

 

I would also say that young children should not be in the business of comforting or reassuring those with whom they do not share close emotional bonds about their abilities. It would be better not to try to execute direct comparisons, aside from situations such as where one of the children approached the other for assistance.

[Mandy in TN]

Unfortunately, I haven't found a great way to deal with this. My children have been instructed to always applaud the acheivements of their friends whatever they are (even when dd is doing division and adding/subtracting fractions and her friends are learning their addition/subtraction facts), but simply not talk about what they are doing, reading, etc.

 

It's a difficult path. But so far, my children have understood that other children and adults might not understand why they are learning exponents when other children in their grade are doing long multiplication and division with one divisor....

 

We try to reinforce that everyone learns at their own speed, and that sometimes things come easier for some and are more difficult for others. And we never want to make anyone feel badly about what they are learning or compare ourselves to anyone else.

 

So far, so good. Although things get a little more sticky when we're visiting the cousins (okay, a LOT more sticky).

 

 

We have been handling this in much the same way. Fortunately, he also has extremely bright cousins and even though they are in a traditional classroom they think it is cool that we homeschool.:D

Thanks-

Mandy

[Mandy in TN]

I also try to encourage my children to say things that will bless the hearer.

 

:iagree:I like this phrase. I think I will quote it to my children.

Thanks-

Mandy

[Mandy in TN]

This is a tough one. It is probably better if he said nothing at all. Someday he will find people who share his love for math. KWIM? The fact he is good at math goes without saying. Although his intentions are in the right place, you know it won't be taken that way. The fact other children make comments about being better just shows their insecurity and lack of maturity.

If you have a bunch of 5-10yo in one spot who are all mathematically gifted, as we experience in our Kumon Center, I guess these children would be the equivalent of bullies in a traditional classroom. :tongue_smilie:Actually, it is kind of funny if you think of it that way, because these may in fact be the same kids who are bullied during the day at school.

 

And I don't get the sports thing either. Although that probably depends on who you ask. I could care less if someone is good or not at sports. If someone bragged to me about their ability in sports, it would be like someone bragging about the color of their hair. So what. :D

LOL I'll think of this next time I hear the sports comments.

[Mandy in TN]

It is a problem, though, isn't it?

-Nan

 

I never thought about it being a regional thing. Athletic achievement seems to be a very big thing here in the Mid-South to the point where my friends with children in traditional classrooms always know how well their children are doing in sports but frequently don't know what they are studying in social studies.

 

Hmm, something to ponder-

Mandy

[Mandy in TN]

All that to say, I think some of these issues will eventually go away. Social graces simply don't keep up with intellectual development in these asynchronous kids. Model what you want, and hope it sticks. Some day, it will. When they reach adulthood, at the very least.

 

Very true- and I will try to keep this in mind when I am trying to deal with ds's social skills.:001_smile:

Thanks-

Mandy

[Mandy in TN]

I think you need to explain to your child that there is an assumption of age/intellect parity, and for an older person to offer comfort to a younger person is okay because it's understood that the younger person is still learning and has not reached the stage where the younger one can accomplish that task. But when it comes to a young whippersnapper "comforting" a much older person, or even someone of the same age, it can often be inappropriate, because it suggests that the younger person sees him-/herself as superior/more accomplished/more advanced.

 

I will point out to my dc that some people would be offended and would rather struggle than accept help from someone younger than or the same age as themselves. I totally understand the age/intellect parity thing and you are completely and totally correct that this is an explanation that will cover many situations without addressing being good at something as a bad thing.

 

Thanks-

Mandy

[Desert Rat]

We, too, tend to steer our ds away from comparisons. We tell him that it is his obligation to help people who don't know as much as he does, BUT, only if they ask. We just find that it's easier to instruct him not to speak about accomplishments at this age (8) rather than teach when it's okay and what is okay. It's just such a difficult concept and I still make many mistakes with it so I don't expect him to get it either.

We also emphasize that everyone has something that they're good at, even if its something as simple as an amazing smile that makes you feel good all the way down to your toes. We stress also that everyone has something that they find difficult (and we use examples specific to him) and explain that people feel bad if you point them out.

It is very hard raising a kid on the far end of the bell curve, but I do find it easier as he's maturing and very rewarding too.

[Blessedfamily]

Well, I took the road of not telling dd that she does work at a higher level than other kids her age. As far as she knows, all 5 yr olds do what she does. Has this worked? Nope.

 

It's only been very awkward twice. Once ,when she was three, some fourth grade cheerleaders came to the house selling ice cream cakes and she pointed a bush and said "That's deciduous. Look at the needles." They went:confused1: and I had to recover the conversation.

 

But last week when two girls scouts came and they told her they were in fourth grade, she said "Oh I do fourth grade work too!" She was excited, but they looked......I don't know what....unhappy.

 

After that, I gently told her she could just tell people what subjects she does w/out the grade because they might think she's being smarter then them.

 

She burst into tears.

 

Guess I screwed that up.

Edited December 9, 2008 by Blessedfamily
spelling

[Nan in Mass]

This sounds familiar LOL. My youngest resorted to that sometimes (and still does occasionally). To him, since he's been taught that mentioning intelligence is impolite (like talking about money), it sounded SO rude that he decided to be rude back in order to discourage the other person from persuing the aquaintanceship. I told him I understood but that he flat-out could not say that under any circumstances, and that just because the other person was rude didn't give him permission to be rude in return, even if they were very rude. We still have this argument (at 14yo), since he knows that it works, and the rude adult disappears in a huff and stops "bothering" him. Sigh. I suppose it is good that he can sort of stand up for himself, but it is misplaced, in this case. Anyway, I usually go on to explain that if you are rude in return, you have just let that other person, whom you don't like and you don't want anything to do with, affect who you are. And then I spend quite a lot of time explaining that different sets of people have different sets of manners, and this particular person comes from a set where to tell someone they are smart or clever is considered a nice thing, not a rude familiarity, and the person just meant to compliment him. Unfortunately, all too often the person uses a talking-to-a-child voice. My children appreciate a real child-voice, but they don't appreciate the particular sort that sounds fake (to them), and hence condescending. They are uncannnily good at picking up when a person is truly comfortable with children and when a person isn't and is trying a little too hard. I can see the good intentions behind the trying, but they take a "scunner" at the person and immediately don't feel like being polite. My youngest isn't quite old enough to be polite because being impolite "isn't done", even at 14. My other children, at 18 and 21, are. I think my youngest at this point is polite even when he doesn't want to be only because he knows it makes me uncomfortable if he doesn't. He is slowly discovering that it is in his own best interests to be polite even when he doesn't want to, but we're not quite there yet. And it is difficult, even as an adult, to deal with people telling you things like this. Smiling and saying thankyou doesn't quite work. I think the sort of people who tell you things like that expect you to deny it or reverse the compliment somehow, and I can't quite manage that. I usually compromise and say something like, "About that, maybe, but I'm a completely fluff-headed most of the time." Or "Yes, that worked out rather well. For once I managed not to mess it up." Then I ask a question about something else. If they insist on pursuing it, I fall back on saying doubtfully, "Well", and then try to move on. I'm pretty klutzy, socially, but this method seems to work. At least it is an honest answer, so I can sound genuine when I say it.

 

It is truly hard.

-Nan

[Desert Rat]

Oh, I don't know if you screwed up really. It's a lesson that does need to be learned. And IMHO, the sooner the better.

My ds used to respond to the question what grade are you in with the level of math he was doing, level of science he was on, and so forth. It helped when I told him that most time when people asked what grade he was in they really meant to ask how old he was. I taught him to respond with the actual grade he is in versus the grade he's working at.

We get those looks too when ds would point to a big rock in the park and say that's metamorphic. Huh? What? Okay, kid.

We've spent lots of time roll playing what other kids like to talk about and I make sure that Huck does watch a few TV shows and is into a few other things (like Pokemon) that most other boys his age are into so that he has common ground.

HTH and don't beat yourself up. It's hard with these smarties to walk the line.