WWYD? Our piano teacher thinks dd8 doesn't like him...

[Trivium Academy]

and I reassure him that she does, only to find out later in private that she doesn't. He can be gruff but I've appreciated how he challenges her.

 

She's been struggling with reading notes lately and I've had to work with her. He was working with her for 4 weeks with no progress, I think he's just a little frustrated. Could it possibly be that the current frustration of reading the notes is causing her not to like him? That this is something that will blow over and not worth addressing?

 

I don't want to look for a new piano teacher and dd8 said she wants to learn a different instrument. Not happening! I told her she has to finish learning to read music through playing the piano before moving on to another instrument.

 

What would you do?

[Rhonda in TX]

My children's liking for their instrument is in direct correlation to how easy it currently is. I thought DD was going to spontaneously combust while learning shifting on her cello. :)

 

As long as the teacher is not being mean to her, stick with him. She's not going to love every teacher she has.

[Amber in AUS]

That's a hard one. I didn't really like my piano teacher either. I did piano for a couple of years and stopped because i didn't want to do it anymore. At the end of the day i didn't have a passion for playing an instrument. I had another go with the clarinet a few years later, and again gave it a couple of years then stopped. I am just not musical i guess.

 

For my kids i think my philosophy will be like this. If you want to do something that's great but you see it thru the season or year (whatever period you pay for) and then evaluate. Do they want to continue or find something different?

 

Does she LOVE playing piano? Does she practice without being asked?

 

For me it was always a chore and that speaks volumes. If you are no longer enjoying something it is time to stop.

[Trivium Academy]

Does she LOVE playing piano? Does she practice without being asked?

 

Yes she seems to love it and she shows enthusiasm over playing, always showing us what she can do. I think she's not thrilled about being pushed to learn the mechanics though but I feel she needs to learn them before she can pick another instrument. She thinks she wants to play guitar but she's also said violin in the last two years.

 

Piano teachers are hard to find in my area.

[Chris in VA]

I'd just chalk it up to the fact that hard things can feel unpleasant for a time, but often working thru them brings great reward. I'm not sure I understand why your teacher would make your dd liking him such a big deal. It seems a little immature to talk to you about that in such a way. I'll bet he is frustrated, but hey, that's something an adult just...handles! Y'know? A good teacher continues to find ways to reach the student, and is patient. If you think he's doing a good job, and dd is learning (maybe slowly, but learning), then I believe it's good for her character to experience a challenge. I wouldn't let her quit or find another teacher at this point. Now, if after 4 or 5 months, she is losing her enjoyment at piano totally, or is dreading or fearing her lesson, then I'd see who else was available, but I still would encourage her to do her work.

 

One thing that occurs to me that might be a fun way to practice is to use sticky notes--We picked several sight words to learn this way. We wrote the sight word on about 20 sticky notes and hung them all over the house. By the end of the day, dd knew the word fairly well. You could write a staff on a pad of stickies and write out one note, over and over, (let dd do it, I mean), and then hang them all over the house. She'll recognize that note pretty quickly! A couple of weeks and she'll probably have the staff down. Just a suggestion.

[brehon]

My children's liking for their instrument is in direct correlation to how easy it currently is. :)

<snip>

As long as the teacher is not being mean to her, stick with him. She's not going to love every teacher she has.

 

Heaven knows this is the truth. Jessica, I answered you a bit in the thread on the Curric. Board. I truly believe that learning to read music is almost exactly like learning to read -- for some kids the phonics is really hard. And make no mistake learning notes is the phonics of music. I think this is very similar to kids (one of mine included:001_rolleyes:) saying "I hate to read [or insert activity]" when the real issue is that the activity which seemed like it would be really fun requires more effort than expected. I have several friends (all musicians) who had difficult times with various aspects of learning music.

 

I would stay with your piano teacher unless he's downright mean. As I said earlier I also think he has an a slightly unrealistic expectation of her progress right now (but that's another issue). I don't know if you know this or not, but several instruments require not only reading notes, but reading notes in an "unusual" clef. You're right to insist that your dd stick with piano before branching out. Good Luck with everything. If you have any questions, please feel free to PM me. I'm coming off duty this morning, but will be at the station (and hence the computer) until about 8:30 or so (CST).

[FriedClams]

I don't know if your teacher does theory - but ours requires 15 minutes before or after class to work on theory workbooks. I just taken them home and we do it as an academic subject for 5-10 minutes every day. The kids are learning their notes with daily reinforcement. Maybe you could get the theory workbooks and just add them to your school day. The ones we use are called "Theory Time" and the kids started on Primer. I also sit with them a couple of times a week for practice and have them tell me the notes as they play. It seems to be helping a lot - though I will admit it is PAINFUL at times, LOL!!

 

As for the teacher I would tough it out- a least through the school yer. She may grow to like him as the skills improve, and you ca always find someone new over the summer if you feel so inclined. Once you get more into the local HS scene you may find a nice HS grad or high schooler who would be a great fit. Until then - press on - it's too big a pain to find a new teacher! :) As for the second instrument - I totally agree with you - and in our house piano is required as an academic subject until High School. (I've heard from everyone that if you can get kids to HS, generally they'll play forever.)

[beansprouts]

Piano teachers are hard to find in my area.

 

 

Piano teachers are hard to find, and qualified teachers even harder. You're never going to find a perfect teacher, so you need to focus on what is most important to you and your child, and be willing to make compromises.

 

My dd struggled with note reading for a while also. She played well and had an excellent ear, but it took a while for note reading to click. About a year ago while on the verge of quitting piano altogether, I switched her to a friend who gives lessons from her home. She put dd into the Bastian books, and they worked very well for her. She now knows more theory than I do, and loves playing again.

 

Maybe your dd's music curriculum isn't working for her. Maybe she just needs more practice and patience. All I know is I would not allow my child to quit an activity just because it is hard. IME once we get through the rough spots in any learning experience, she finds joy in her success and becomes even more committed to learning.

[Lisa in the UP of MI]

Not quite an answer to your question, but about reading notes. We talked earlier and your dd and I seem to have similar learning styles. I also struggled with note reading when I learned piano. What finally worked for me was a workbook called Notespeller. It was in the same series as my other piano books. Maybe that will help?

 

I just wanted to add that this was in addition to my Theory workbook.

Edited December 2, 2008 by Lisa in the UP of MI
more info

[Erica in PA]

How did he know that she didn't like him? How was she behaving toward him that her feelings would be so obvious to him that he would mention it outright to you? I would want to know more about that. And then I'd want to know exactly *why* she doesn't like him, in her words. I'd want to hear specific examples of what she doesn't like, and how he's acted that she didn't like. If she seems to have good solid reasons, then I'd consider switching her.

[SonshineLearner]

The teacher that I wanted to use, said to wait until my child read. If that's true, I'd try to finish the year. My daughter's ballet teacher is very strict about how she speaks and expects them to behave. That being said, my daughter loves her. My daughter did go through a couple of times when she wanted to stop; my rule was that she finished the year. Now she says that she can't imagine life without it.

I did piano when I was young, and now looking back, I wish my parents had been as strict about practicing as with say...cleaning my room. I had talent, but no inner drive to practice. My backyard friend, Maria, had parents who weren't that strict, but made her practice. She excelled and then graduated with a degree in Music.....a success!

:-)

[yvonne]

>>have them tell me the notes as they play.

 

Our piano teacher suggested doing this as well. In fact, she told my 8 yo boys to play each piece 5x when they practice, 2x saying the names of the notes as they play, 2x counting the beats in the measure as they play (1234 1234 etc. if it's 4/4), and 1x playing however they want.

 

As an aside, to keep track of how many times they've played the piece (besides yelling, "mama, how many times was that?") they keep a little, 5-piece Lego man on one side of the piano. Each time they finish one time through the piece, they move one of his pieces to the other side, until they've built him on the other side. They find it motivating. :)

 

yvonne

[Trivium Academy]

That's exactly what he's doing and what she's struggling with. I've told her we're going to stick this until this summer and re-evaluate then. Thank you all for your input!

[Laura K (NC)]

What does liking him have to do with anything? Sounds like the piano teacher is a bit too concerned with himself. I understand wanting to have a good relationship with the student, but really, the burden is on the teacher to motivate and to encourage. It seems very unprofessional for him to tell you that (or to wonder to you if) your student doesn't like him.

 

We had a great piano teacher who was constantly thinking of his students first. He had a wondeful enthusiasm for the music itself that was infectious. My son loved him, not because the teacher felt needy (searching for affirmation!), but because the teacher was so giving. It was hard to find another teacher after this man died unexpectedly. We auditioned another teacher about a month later, and the whole time the teacher couldn't stop talking about himself. It was such a jarring difference, my son didn't get another teacher for about a year afterwards. My son's first teacher was very emotionally needy. It got in the way of the music. It even turned my son off from playing.

 

I would find another teacher. I am a trained musician, and I know many other trained musician. They (we!) tend to need a lot of stroking because of our temperaments. It is worth it to find a teacher who isn't bringing a lot of emotional baggage to a lesson. They are out there.

[Trivium Academy]

This is what he said:

 

How do you think dd8 is progressing? I would like to see more progress weekly from her. Maybe it is me and maybe because I am away at times and miss lessons. I do like working with dd8 but feel that sometimes she tunes me out. Sometimes students just don't seem to click with teachers. I may be pressuring her to much. It doesn't seem fair to you to pay for lessons if she isn't making progress. Give this some thought and see if she will open up to you. I would still like her to play in the recital on Fri. Hope you can still be there.

 

He challenges her and other than me, she hasn't had that from another person. He did take a 3 week vacation which set dd8 back a little.

[Garga]

I haven't read the other posts, so not sure if anyone's talked about this:

 

My husband plays the guitar beautifully. He learned from a well-known and accomplished classical guitarist. My husband can play any type of music and it sounds great. However, he never learned how to read music. He can't. He just hears the song, and then plays it--accurately and well!

 

Now, I'm not saying your daughter shouldn't learn to read notes, but perhaps she's one of those (lucky!!!) people who can just hear the music and play it.

 

Just thought I'd throw that out there. Is your daughter like that?

 

PS. I can't play without music and I muddled through never properly learning the notes and it was tough to play once I got to a certain level. If she isn't like my dh and is more like me, then encourage her to learn the notes.

[beansprouts]

I do like working with dd8 but feel that sometimes she tunes me out. Sometimes students just don't seem to click with teachers.

 

Personalities do effect the teacher/student relationship. One might be an excellent teacher but simply not click with certain children. Likewise, the right teacher/student combination can be extremely effective. However, it may be too soon to determine whether this is the problem.

 

I think you should look at the method first, and determine whether that fits her learning style. My daughter needed a more deliberate academic approach to learning the note reading. When her current teacher recommended a curriculum which included a workbook, I knew that would be right for her.

[sagira]

For me, liking my teacher means a lot. I'm talented in Spanish, but never bothered to work hard at it because I didn't like my teacher. As a result, I didn't progress much back then. I just studies to pass tests. In English, I loved my teacher. I did very well and I still speak English fluently and write on boards like these -- in English :D In Math, I didn't like my teacher. Still not good at math and have a sort of "block" in that subject. Teachers matter to me. I always try to find someone ds or dd clicks with before I move on. For each of them these could be different teachers, or the same teacher. It all depends on personality and motivation.

 

And as a teacher I would notice if one of my students didn't like me and would know that this could be a potential factor in not doing well (as in my experience). And he's exactly right -- if she doesn't like him, she could be tuning him out. However, it sounds as if other factors are at play. That because it's difficult she doesn't want to stick with it. This is different, and IMO she should stick through it at least until the end of winter, where you can again evaluate her progress.

[Testimony]

I liked what Laura in NC said. However, I wonder. I know that one of the reasons why my sons enjoy playing the piano is due to the fact that their teacher is very loving. She is also 80 years old and a retired pastor's wife.

 

The reason that I am responding is my third grader is struggling with learning the notes to music also. When suddenly, he came up with a way to learn the notes on the treble clef. I will share it if it will help.

 

For the line notes, he made up this song that goes: EGBDF, EGBDF, EEEE, GGGG, BBBB, D, F! It is kinda in a rap tune. So you say EGBDF twice as if you were an engine. Then you sing the letters EGBDF.

 

For the space notes, I made this song that goes: There's a FACE in the space. Yes, a FACE in the space. OOOH! The FACE in the space is where we can find to place our space notes.

 

I know that there is the famouse Every Good Boy Deserves Fudge for the line notes, but it was easier to memorize the letters straight.

 

You can use it if you are able.

 

May the Lord bless you on your homeschooling journey!

 

Sincerely,

Karen

http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/testimony

[FO4UR]

It sounds like the teacher is open and communicative with you, so for that alone I would stick with him a while longer. IMHO - it doesn't matter whether or not she likes him (I'm a meany:tongue_smilie:), given that the dislike comes from a healthy challenge. Perhaps dd is used to succeeding at everything, and this isn't following that pattern?

 

Keep communicating with the teacher and see if you both can find a balance of skill building practice and playing for pleasure. Learning to read music is a COMPLEX skill. It's a lot like learning to read English for the first time. Some dc take to it quick and others take longer. Some dc need the process broken down into parts first, others do better just diving in. You are right to demand she learn to read music at the keyboard before switching instruments imho.

 

Is she a natural "play it by ear" kind of kid? It can be frustrating to have to go backwards in order to learn to actually read the notes - similar to kids learning a look-say method of reading English first and then having to go back and learn phonics kwim. If that's the case, set a timer each day for note reading practice, and then after that timer goes off she can play for pleasure.

[Paula in MS]

I did not start piano lessons until 7th grade and only had 2 teachers during those 6 years. The first teacher I had was the most encouraging woman I ever met. She was enthusiastic and always offered a lot of praise. She always tried to find music that I would like and valued my input. We even played pop tunes for a couple of years. I progressed very rapidly with her and I owe her for my love of music. My second teacher (the first one stopped teaching for a while) was very much into classical music and technique. She was much more business-like. I learned a lot with both but have wondered how far I would have gone if I had started with the second.

 

If you need to switch teachers, do it. Finish the year with this guy and then ask around. You need a good teacher that was like my first one. I wouldn't push a third grader too much. That teacher, in my opinion, needs to come up with some creative ways to teach her the notes. Camille is not lacking in intelligence by any means. She is just young and needs extra attention here. (Your teacher seems easily frustrated.)

 

On another note, it is more important for her to know where the note is played on the piano instead of the note name. Pianists do not even think of the names of the notes when they play. We skip this step entirely. We correlate note position on the staff to the piano.

 

I am teaching my dd6 to play using the Alfred books. She has not learned her note names yet. She can, however, learn whether to go up or down, whether to skip a note, etc. based on where the note is on the staff.

 

Camille will get it. Knowing the note names should not stall her progress. They will come. The teacher may be putting too much emphasis on this one part of playing.

 

Just my 2 cents

 

Paula

[LaxMom]

...

 

I don't want to look for a new piano teacher and dd8 said she wants to learn a different instrument. Not happening! I told her she has to finish learning to read music through playing the piano before moving on to another instrument.

 

What would you do?

 

Exactly that. We have the same issue (not so much shooting the messenger, so to speak, but not wanting to practice new skills on the piano) with my 7 y.o. Her piano teacher points out that she never gives her more than she can handle and that it simply takes practice, which pans out every. single. time. she actually practices and masters something new.

[beansprouts]

On another note, it is more important for her to know where the note is played on the piano instead of the note name. Pianists do not even think of the names of the notes when they play. We skip this step entirely. We correlate note position on the staff to the piano.

 

 

This is true for me on instruments I have played. I learn to find the note with my fingers and my ear, and rarely think about the name.

[teamturner]

I agree with the those that have suggested that is the teachers job to find a way/method to teach this to your dd that is less frustrating. You could ask about other method books. My dc's teacher changed my 7yo dd's method book after just a few lessons as she could tell it was not the right one for her. All 3 of my dc are in different method books, btw. My twin boys started piano last year and my dd started this fall. One of my boys was really frustrated at first and wanted to quit. I talked to him about how it takes time to learn new things (reading, riding a bike, etc.) and he had to be patient. After it began clicking more with him and he realized that every new piece was a new challenge that he could complete he stopped being frustrated. My piano is being played all.day.long by one of them now!

 

My dc love their piano teacher so much! She is so encouraging and always finds something to praise. My dh has often wondered if he would have continued with piano lessons if he'd had such a wonderful teacher. My own mother was a full time piano teacher while I was growing up and I took piano for 9 years. I would suggest you stay with this teacher for the remainder of the school year and ask the teacher if he would consider switching her method books to suit her learning style and personality. And perhaps you can instill some kind of reward system for her to encourage her to practice. Our piano teacher gives her students a sticker at each good lesson (this involves having completed assigned work and being able to play the songs assigned). When they've attained 20 stickers they get a $5 gift card to either Starbucks or Barnes and Noble (their choice). Perhaps you could set up a similar system at home to help motivate her to practice?

[FO4UR]

On another note, it is more important for her to know where the note is played on the piano instead of the note name. Pianists do not even think of the names of the notes when they play. We skip this step entirely. We correlate note position on the staff to the piano.

 

 

 

I disagree. Correlating the fingerings to the page can be a good first step, BUT it leaves a budding musician "high and dry" if you leave it there. Knowing the note names, being able to SING the names of the notes as you play is vital. I went to college with MANY very talented pianists who FAILED to complete a music degree for the lack of the ability to read/sight sing ALONE! I am a mediocre musician - at best, but I graduated with a BSE in music ed thanks to a wonderful music teacher in grade school who still taught the archaic skill of note reading:001_smile:

 

Your dd may not ever want to pursue a degree in music, but if you are going to all the trouble and cost of music lessons- do it right kwim.:tongue_smilie: Besides, picking up another instrument in the future will be a piece of cake after some good hard work at the piano.;)

 

Does the teacher have her just sing without playing sometimes? It might be easier to start just singing and then add the playing.

[Laura K (NC)]

Still, "not clicking" isn't the same as "doesn't like." But there are different teaching styles.

 

My dh and I are going to deal with this next August. We're coaching a homeschool cross country team. Many boys (and some girls) don't mind being pushed beyond their preconceived limits, and they thrive on the pressure. Other kids, both boys and girls, will totally balk if they are pushed beyond their comfort zone. It will be hard for us to know how to push hard enough that the team will be competitive enough at the varsity level to make it worthwhile for the true athletes, and how to push gently enough for the middle-of-the-road runners so they don't give up.

[buddhabelly]

I went to college with MANY very talented pianists who FAILED to complete a music degree for the lack of the ability to read/sight sing ALONE!

 

I was one of these pianists who learned visually (could play the piano fine without knowing the NAMES of the notes). In college, I sang with many groups (small chamber ensembles and big choirs) and I could sight read perfectly. That skill, IMO, comes from experience with the notes over time. It does not have anything to do with the skill Jessica mentions: specifically, singing the NAMES of the notes as dd plays.

 

Knowing an "A" is an "A" does not help you sing it correctly nor does it help you find the correct key on the piano; singing it correctly just comes from playing (or singing) that note many, many times. (I will make an exception for those with perfect pitch, which I don't really understand.) People think my son has perfect pitch, but his ability to sing an F or a B just comes from five years of playing them on his violin......

 

That said, I do agree with much of your post! :)

 

Julie

[Paula in MS]

I disagree. Correlating the fingerings to the page can be a good first step, BUT it leaves a budding musician "high and dry" if you leave it there. Knowing the note names, being able to SING the names of the notes as you play is vital. I went to college with MANY very talented pianists who FAILED to complete a music degree for the lack of the ability to read/sight sing ALONE! I am a mediocre musician - at best, but I graduated with a BSE in music ed thanks to a wonderful music teacher in grade school who still taught the archaic skill of note reading:001_smile:

 

Your dd may not ever want to pursue a degree in music, but if you are going to all the trouble and cost of music lessons- do it right kwim.:tongue_smilie: Besides, picking up another instrument in the future will be a piece of cake after some good hard work at the piano.;)

 

Does the teacher have her just sing without playing sometimes? It might be easier to start just singing and then add the playing.

 

I totally agree that she should learn how to read music. I learned to read music before I started playing the piano. I was trying to get across that she can still work on piano skills as she learns her notes. They are really 2 separate acts. She should have some trick to name the notes on the staff. She should work on her technical skills as well, but naming the notes may not become "automatic" or easy for a little while and this does not necessarily have to stall her progress on other things. I would hate to see her frustrated at this point.

 

Paula

[FO4UR]

I was one of these pianists who learned visually (could play the piano fine without knowing the NAMES of the notes). In college, I sang with many groups (small chamber ensembles and big choirs) and I could sight read perfectly. That skill, IMO, comes from experience with the notes over time. It does not have anything to do with the skill Jessica mentions: specifically, singing the NAMES of the notes as dd plays.

 

Knowing an "A" is an "A" does not help you sing it correctly nor does it help you find the correct key on the piano; singing it correctly just comes from playing (or singing) that note many, many times. (I will make an exception for those with perfect pitch, which I don't really understand.) People think my son has perfect pitch, but his ability to sing an F or a B just comes from five years of playing them on his violin......

 

That said, I do agree with much of your post! :)

 

Julie

 

I agree that singing an"A" comes from repetition, and it's my theory (I doubt I can really call it "mine"....but anyway...) that learning sight singing is key to sight reading - which is the skill that the piano teacher is trying to teach. I also think that "perfect pitch" is a learned skill, not a magical thing some people have and others don't....and violin is a GREAT instrument for developing the ear.:001_smile:

 

I totally agree that she should learn how to read music. I learned to read music before I started playing the piano. I was trying to get across that she can still work on piano skills as she learns her notes. They are really 2 separate acts. She should have some trick to name the notes on the staff. She should work on her technical skills as well, but naming the notes may not become "automatic" or easy for a little while and this does not necessarily have to stall her progress on other things. I would hate to see her frustrated at this point.

 

Paula

 

I agree. That's why I think she should have a set amount of time each day for practicing skill builders, and then have plenty of time for pleasure practice. I do think that most kids NEED some practice that is not fun for them to build those skills so that they grow in ability. I would hope that she is not spending her whole lesson on this one skill.

[Rosie_0801]

It sounds to me like they need you to do a bit of mediating. I'm sure the teacher is quite grown up enough to do his own negotiating, but your kiddie isn't. Explaining them to each other keep things afloat for now, and getting your daughter to express her actual issue will enable you to help her formulate ways of expressing herself to her teacher. Even simple things like "I need a rest from this." If you then relate these lines to the teacher, he can make sure he reacts in the way she needs.

 

Rosie