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UC a-g online vendors - a lot are being dropped


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I'm sorry to have to share this news with you all, but there are a lot of online vendors that are no longer a-g. AOPS, Online G3, CTY, and many others that are very popular online providers here.

 

 

 

https://hs-articulation.ucop.edu/agcourselist#/list/search/institution?q=&f=institutionTypeName%7COnline%20Publisher

 

 

Edited: Go to post #18 for UC response to inquiry about this.

Edited by calbear
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Homeschool charters in CA heavily depend on those providers to provide a through g stamp on their diplomas. It will be interesting to see how they end up handling. I see more independent homeschoolers at a high school level following this decision.

 

 

Some of these vendors will still be a-g approved if taken through a charter with a teacher grading the work. For instance some of the Online G-3 classes are still approved through Inspire. 

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Some of these vendors will still be a-g approved if taken through a charter with a teacher grading the work. For instance some of the Online G-3 classes are still approved through Inspire.

I thought that was already the case with them. I know AOPS was only approved if taken through another school. So what changed then?

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I thought that was already the case with them. I know AOPS was only approved if taken through another school. So what changed then?

That was my understanding as well. I thought these were only a-g approved for charter students vs psa students?

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I heard that UC will only approve diploma-granting schools (online and B&M high schools for example). So if a high school starts teaching AoPS, it could be approved (again, I am not sure, just relating what I'm hearing through my local grapevine). If someone is with a charter and the charter issues the diploma, AoPS might be approved. It's all really still pretty unclear. I'm trying to find out but no one seems to know for sure.

 

It really hurts the businesses of awesome providers...very unfair really. Homeschoolers still have the exam and exception admission methods, but again, I don't think UCs only consider 3 test scores max (1 SAT/ACT and 2 subject tests) so it's all pretty misleading anyway.

 

 

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I saw the discussion last week and thought of it when I received an email from OnlineG3 that they are going back to a 'no grades' option. I do wonder if they added that option just to appease some sort of a/g approval requirement. (Except I knew the requirement that you had to take it through another school/charter that had a teacher overseeing the class.

[Non-Californian butting into the discussion.]

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I'm sorry to have to share this news with you all, but there are a lot of online vendors that are no longer a-g. AOPS, Online G3, CTY, and many others that are very popular online providers here.

 

 

 

https://hs-articulation.ucop.edu/agcourselist#/list/search/institution?q=&f=institutionTypeName%7COnline%20Publisher

"closed as of XXXX" means no longer approved a-g?

 

kind of strange term for that

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If you click through on the provider, it lists which courses are approved through which year. There's a pretty good summary of what is going on in this FB group which is dedicated to Homeschoolers in CA: 
https://www.facebook.com/groups/CollegeSeekers/

I'm not going to copy their info over here. Apparently they have a copy of the letter that went out to these providers and spoke with one of those providers at length about what is going on.

 

Edited by calbear
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I thought that was already the case with them. I know AOPS was only approved if taken through another school. So what changed then?

 

 

Not really....

 

I was told by UC's - if you're NOT with a charter, EVEN if the class is A-g Approved, if the institution cannot issue an accredited transcript, then it's NOT approved.

 

For example:

I am an independent PSP homeschooler:

 

Let's say last year my kid took a class from AOPS while it still had approval.  That would count for me because AOPS has accredidation and also can issue an "official" transcript.  They are seen as a "school."

 

BUT say I take a class from ABC Online (I made that up) and the class is listed on the A-G website but they can't / don't issue "official" transcripts, and they don't have accreditation...then FOR ME the class is NOT A-G approved. 

 

But, for my Ocean Grover/Charter friends, it would be approved because the charter itself would issue the accredited official transcript from that class, based on looking at the fact that it has A-G approval.

 

We have hte same issue with A-G approved Co-op classes.  For me,they are not approved.  For my Ocean Grove buddies, they are approved because the class was submitted to UC's, gained an approval, but Ocean Grove is the one who issues the final accredited, official transcript.

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Not really....

 

I was told by UC's - if you're NOT with a charter, EVEN if the class is A-g Approved, if the institution cannot issue an accredited transcript, then it's NOT approved.

 

For example:

I am an independent PSP homeschooler:

 

Let's say last year my kid took a class from AOPS while it still had approval. That would count for me because AOPS has accredidation and also can issue an "official" transcript. They are seen as a "school."

 

BUT say I take a class from ABC Online (I made that up) and the class is listed on the A-G website but they can't / don't issue "official" transcripts, and they don't have accreditation...then FOR ME the class is NOT A-G approved.

 

But, for my Ocean Grover/Charter friends, it would be approved because the charter itself would issue the accredited official transcript from that class, based on looking at the fact that it has A-G approval.

 

We have hte same issue with A-G approved Co-op classes. For me,they are not approved. For my Ocean Grove buddies, they are approved because the class was submitted to UC's, gained an approval, but Ocean Grove is the one who issues the final accredited, official transcript.

So does that mean we got a through g geometry box checked since we took AOPS geometry while it was approved?

I am so sick of UC quarks.

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Not really....

 

I was told by UC's - if you're NOT with a charter, EVEN if the class is A-g Approved, if the institution cannot issue an accredited transcript, then it's NOT approved.

 

For example:

I am an independent PSP homeschooler:

 

Let's say last year my kid took a class from AOPS while it still had approval. That would count for me because AOPS has accredidation and also can issue an "official" transcript. They are seen as a "school."

 

BUT say I take a class from ABC Online (I made that up) and the class is listed on the A-G website but they can't / don't issue "official" transcripts, and they don't have accreditation...then FOR ME the class is NOT A-G approved.

 

But, for my Ocean Grover/Charter friends, it would be approved because the charter itself would issue the accredited official transcript from that class, based on looking at the fact that it has A-G approval.

 

We have hte same issue with A-G approved Co-op classes. For me,they are not approved. For my Ocean Grove buddies, they are approved because the class was submitted to UC's, gained an approval, but Ocean Grove is the one who issues the final accredited, official transcript.

You have a-g co-op classes? I've never heard of that.

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You have a-g co-op classes? I've never heard of that.

 

Classical Conversations? 

 

 

I saw our vendor's name was on the list with "closed as of 2018" note, so I asked about it to our advisor at our charter school.  Our advisor reassured me that our vendor is in process of getting the approval renewed and it will take some time (few months) to get everything settled. 

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You have a-g co-op classes? I've never heard of that.

 

(Classical converstaions is not A-g......I literally have no idea where the PP got that)

 

anyway...yes the teachers at several of our secular co-ops have submitted the course for A-G approval and received it, but only through the Charter school.  Ours has Science, English and more.  

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(Classical converstaions is not A-g......I literally have no idea where the PP got that)

 

anyway...yes the teachers at several of our secular co-ops have submitted the course for A-G approval and received it, but only through the Charter school.  Ours has Science, English and more.  

 

I spotted Classical Conversations Inc. on the A-G approved list on the linked UC's website...  It has a "closed as of 2017" note beside their name now, but I thought you might be referring them as a co-op group as it is a popular co-op option among charter families. 

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The moderator of Facebook group: CA Homeschool College Seekers (Laura Smith Kazan) gave me permission to share the following:

She wrote this post about the closures. Scroll down to see the email response she received from the UCOP.
 

OK here we go with UC A-G changes. The info to the charters for this went out last week. They already know this info and it is up to each charter how they will react. Call your high school guidance counselor.

UCOP = UC office of the president.

I was just given a copy of the UC letter sent out to course creators from the UCOP and had a long talk with one of those course creators.

This is the info.

1. If the charter school ALREADY has that vendor course on their A-G list they will keep it for the 2018-2019 academic year but they cannot add it.

2. Vendors will only be allowed to offer courses if they fulfill ALL 7 of the A-G requirements. This means trouble for vendors like AOPS (Art of Problem Solving), however, they have a year to figure this out with the UCOP. It will be up to that vendor to see if the UC will allow them to offer classes. Places like CTY (Center for Talented Youth) will have a higher possibility of figuring it out - they already have more to offer. More on G3 in a sec.

3. The teacher of record must belong to the charter and be the teacher and grader of that course, NOT the course vendor. UPDATE: Outside vendors that give grades must be from diploma granting online schools.

4. The vendor must be able to provide a transcript. This means a teacher must give the grade and the charter cannot approve a parent created grade. What does this mean? Could this mean that the student could do dual enrollment with a vendor rather than enroll in a school, we don't know yet. Going to say this again. Remember, they have a year to figure this out. It will also depend on how your charter wants to handle it.

5. What about G3! Everyone loves G3s little classes. There are many possibilities but we don't know if they will fly. Can they be put into project based course? Can they used in place of content in a flexible textbook based course? We don't know yet. We also don't know how each charter will handle it. What kinds of courses do they offer at this time? Do they even have flexible courses? Places like G3 makes a lot of their money off of charter schools. My guess is that they are working on this and they have a year to figure this out.

6. How many high schools (not just charters) do YOU think are bombarding the UCOP about these changes. Many use online courses...The UCOP has asked that questions be directed to vendors.

7. Why is UC Scout (produced from the University of CA) being excluded? They are being excluded from #3. UPDATED

Did I mention that charter schools have a year to figure this and if the course is ALREADY on the course list you are good for a year.

Let's not panic and let the vendors figure this out. They want to be on that course list because they make money off of it.


UCOP email:
 

I wrote directly to the UCOP when I learned of the changes and they answered me tonight.

This is the email in its entirety.

Dear Ms. Kazan,

We are not able to explain exactly what each of the online course publishers are specifically doing or not doing that does or does not align with UC faculty policy, we can give you a general idea of why the online course publishers’ “a-g†reference lists have been closed.

 

In alignment with UC faculty policy, online course publishers who maintain “a-g†reference lists with UC:

develop their own curriculum/courses
curriculum and courses cannot be adopted/resold/relicensed from other institutions
*Some online course publishers were offering courses which were not their courses.

 

sell or license their online courses for delivery by a teacher or administrator within the local high school or district
it is expected that the teacher of the course is not employed by the content developer/online course publisher
all online courses must provide opportunities for substantial interactions between students and the teacher, and between students and other students.
*Some online course publishers were either teaching their own courses/providing teachers for their courses or offering courses which did not require students to interact with teachers at their own local high school.

 

do not issue credit toward a diploma to students who complete courses
credit is issued instead by the student's home high school because the course was taught by the teacher(s) employed at that school
*Some online course publishers were issuing credit themselves.

 

In general, most, if not all, of the online course publishers whose lists were closed were acting as schools even though they are not “diploma-granting, regionally accredited (by one of the six agencies recognized by UC) high schools.†Our faculty does make specific policies regarding the limits of an online course publisher which maintains an “a-g†list with UC, and while they can be great resources to schools, they can never replace schools, nor teachers. Schools are welcome to purchase/license curriculum from online course publishers, but the schools must provide one of their own teachers who is teaching the course, not simply monitoring the students while they take online courses, potentially being taught by someone employed by the content developer/online course publisher.

 

Students who directly enrolled in courses offered by online course publishers have never earned “a-g†credit for completing those courses. There is a note on every online course publisher’s “a-g†reference list which states: “These courses are “a-g†approved for schools and districts to adopt onto their “a-g†approved courses lists and to teach at their local school sites. These courses are not "a-g" approved for individual students to directly enroll in or to complete through this online publisher. For more information regarding courses provided by online publishers, please visit the UC A-G Guide webpage for online publishers, and/or contact the online publisher directly.†At no time have students ever been able to complete an online course publisher (or program) course if they wanted to earn “a-g†credit.

 

If your school is looking for ways to offer more courses to your students who want to earn “a-g†credit for those courses and you are not able to provide a teacher for those courses, we would encourage you to check out our data base of other schools (both online and classroom-based) as well as the extensive network of California community colleges, as many of their courses can be used to satisfy “a-g†requirements at little to no cost to students. We unfortunately do hear that some schools and districts will not teach courses unless they are “a-g†approved by UC. This stems from the biggest misconception of the “a-g†process which is that UC is somehow acting as the auditor for all high school curriculum. Not only is this untrue, it is dangerous as it may limit course opportunities for students. We encourage schools to offer the courses which they believe are valuable for their students, regardless of “a-g†course approval, especially because we are limited in which subject areas and disciplines we can approve, and we encourage students to take advantage of every learning opportunity afforded to them, regardless of “a-g†course eligibility. The “a-g†process represents the minimum academic course work required for potential success at a UC, not the final total of course work. And if students have completed courses valuable to their development, and/or which have inspired them, they can include that work as part of their application information.

 

We did also already email directly the course list managers of those schools who had adopted courses from online course publishers whose lists have been closed.

 

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So does that mean we got a through g geometry box checked since we took AOPS geometry while it was approved?

I am so sick of UC quarks.

They just like to see geometry self reported. Needn't be an approved class. Some kids in our homeschool group who took calculus in high school were accepted even without self reporting geometry.

 

Please see calbear's post about UCs reply to Laura's email. This explains a lot of the doubt about a-g approval. 😊

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Scroll down to see the email response she received from the UCOP.

 

UCOP email:

...

We unfortunately do hear that some schools and districts will not teach courses unless they are “a-g†approved by UC. This stems from the biggest misconception of the “a-g†process which is that UC is somehow acting as the auditor for all high school curriculum. Not only is this untrue, it is dangerous as it may limit course opportunities for students. We encourage schools to offer the courses which they believe are valuable for their students, regardless of “a-g†course approval, especially because we are limited in which subject areas and disciplines we can approve, and we encourage students to take advantage of every learning opportunity afforded to them, regardless of “a-g†course eligibility. The “a-g†process represents the minimum academic course work required for potential success at a UC, not the final total of course work. And if students have completed courses valuable to their development, and/or which have inspired them, they can include that work as part of their application information.

There are so many ways to interpret this. I don’t think a public school would offer a course in the A-G category that isn’t UC approved though because of being risk adverse.

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Schools are welcome to purchase/license curriculum from online course publishers, but the schools must provide one of their own teachers who is teaching the course, not simply monitoring the students while they take online courses, potentially being taught by someone employed by the content developer/online course publisher.

 

Students who directly enrolled in courses offered by online course publishers have never earned “a-g†credit for completing those courses. There is a note on every online course publisher’s “a-g†reference list which states: “These courses are “a-g†approved for schools and districts to adopt onto their “a-g†approved courses lists and to teach at their local school sites. These courses are not "a-g" approved for individual students to directly enroll in or to complete through this online publisher. 

 

 

yes frustrating and ridiculous. if only we didn't care, but we'd like to keep our UC options open as they are good schools, and our state's flagship unis - cost-effective, etc. (why can't we be in any other state where your flagship is like the U of Florida or U of Alabama or U of Arizona without these ridiculous hoops. it's the kind of hoops you expect to find with tippy-tippy tippy top selective schools) *roll eyes*

 

my take - we'll continue plugging along, meeting whatever a-g we can with sat II tests/AP exams/or DE classes. not all will therefore be checked.

 

but from what's quoted above, as a PSA filer, i AM my own 'school' and so as my own school, i am providing the teacher to teach the online publisher course and i, as the school, am incorporating the course into our course catalog and i, as the school, am the diploma granter. that will be my interpretation, for better or worse.

 

and besides when you submit the UC app online, it doesn't specify anyway for homeschooler to show a-g classes - it does not populate the drop-down so relies on self-reporting anyway. others have done it. i'll remain hopeful.

 

 

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Well not that it matters in this thread but my friends back in Florida do say that U of Florida is requiring more SAT subject tests of Homeschoolers these days...

 

And yes that interesting, you are the teacher and your own school :)

 

And as of now that homeschooling app doesn’t even seeem to mention A-G

It does mention a-g. It doesn't ask if a class is a-g approved.

 

UC has made it clear in the reply that they don't audit all high school curriculum so follow your gut, homeschool for the love of learning, and if your kids (I know yours are going the transfer route CT so this is a general "your") have the good test scores, keep fingers crossed when you apply! 😊

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It does mention a-g. It doesn't ask if a class is a-g approved.

 

UC has made it clear in the reply that they don't audit all high school curriculum so follow your gut, homeschool for the love of learning, and if your kids (I know yours are going the transfer route CT so this is a general "your") have the good test scores, keep fingers crossed when you apply! 😊

 

...and apply outside the UC system too! ;)

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LOL, yes! If your budget will allow those extra application fees.

That is another money spinner :lol:

 

My alma mater charges $20 application fee for international applicants and $10 for locals currently. That’s still not too bad.

 

Since younger boy is keen on engineering, we’ll have to apply wide for him anyway. The acceptance rate for engineering school is so much lower than the college itself.

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I'm sorry to have to share this news with you all, but there are a lot of online vendors that are no longer a-g. AOPS, Online G3, CTY, and many others that are very popular online providers here.

 

 

 

https://hs-articulation.ucop.edu/agcourselist#/list/search/institution?q=&f=institutionTypeName%7COnline%20Publisher

 

 

Edited: Go to post #18 for UC response to inquiry about this.

Thanks for the info and mentioning the FB group. I will follow this there.

The whole thing just irritates me.

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