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Memoria Press if dyslexic?


ktgrok
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Still considering options for 3rd grade for next year. Would it work for me to read aloud the material, or is it all designed to be read by the student? We would use our own language arts (finally found a program that works for her!) so will that be okay? Or does it all work together? Would jumping in at 3rd grade be a good idea, or is that too late to get into Memoria Press?

Edited by ktgrok
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I've used bits and pieces of Memoria Press and it didn't seem disjointed. The only thing that we're still using is their Latin, but when we did D'Aulaire's (that looks wrong) we read the text aloud and used the workbook as a source of discussion questions. 

Edited by mellifera33
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Quickly -- I have only a moment -- I'd strongly suggest also posting on the Memoria Press Special Needs forum; or on the K-8 forum if you prefer, but you will get a reply from a special needs professional on the more focused board.   Do please ask at one place or the other about placement -- you'll get so much BTDT experience, and ideas for incorporating what you want to keep (your reading program) with what you'd like from Memoria Press. 

 

Memoria Press also has a curriculum especially for students with learning differences: Simply Classical.  Here's a link to the MP general Special Needs page/description; here to the Simply Classical curriculum.  Simply Classical is meant to provide extra support AND to allow you to jump over to the main curriculum if/when that would fit the child well. 

 

It's never really too late to get into Memoria Press and third grade is a great year to do the switch.  She'll be starting Classical Studies, Christian Studies, and beginning Latin (whether you do a SN or a standard path), and if you decide to work from any of the Year 2 materials, they are wonderful -- lots of folks who don't plan to stay with MP love the K-2 years. 

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Oh, and do you find the workbooks "work"? I tried their Christian Studies an eon ago, when it first came out, and it seemed like sometimes the questions asked things that didn't line up with the reading? I remember my son being very frustrated. However, he's my aspie so maybe it was a matter of you were supposed to infer things and he wasn't/isn't good at that. If it wasn't a concrete answer he was stuck....my DD8 doesn't have that problem. But if there are errors and such that will drive us a bit crazy. 

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Quickly -- I have only a moment -- I'd strongly suggest also posting on the Memoria Press Special Needs forum; or on the K-8 forum if you prefer, but you will get a reply from a special needs professional on the more focused board.   Do please ask at one place or the other about placement -- you'll get so much BTDT experience, and ideas for incorporating what you want to keep (your reading program) with what you'd like from Memoria Press. 

 

Memoria Press also has a curriculum especially for students with learning differences: Simply Classical.  Here's a link to the MP general Special Needs page/description; here to the Simply Classical curriculum.  Simply Classical is meant to provide extra support AND to allow you to jump over to the main curriculum if/when that would fit the child well. 

 

It's never really too late to get into Memoria Press and third grade is a great year to do the switch.  She'll be starting Classical Studies, Christian Studies, and beginning Latin (whether you do a SN or a standard path), and if you decide to work from any of the Year 2 materials, they are wonderful -- lots of folks who don't plan to stay with MP love the K-2 years. 

 

Oh, that's incredibly helpful! Thank you!!! 

 

I'm thinking we might try doing some of the 2nd grade American book now, to see how it goes. And I am loving the idea of doing less, but well. I adore SOTW and Story of Civilization, for fun, but it is TOO MUCH as far as detail. The forest gets lost in the trees here. It's overwhelming and starts to blur together. Looking at third grade, I'm liking that it is mainly biographies for american history, and then the greek myths, which a knowledge of is so helpful with later reading. It looks doable, for lack of a better word. And then I think you start memorizing the timeline as well?? 

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We consider ourselves a mix but lean toward MP for language arts almost entirely. My dyslexic is learning Latin slowly, and from a vocabulary standpoint, it is very helpful. I read most things to him or find it on Audible or Learning Ally. I don’t require much writing and we often work on the guides orally. I think it’s doable but as with most curriculums needs some adaptations.

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I use Memoria Press with my two older children who are dyslexic and have a few other learning challenges.  It has been awesome for my children.   I thought the materials looked dry and boring, however, they have THRIVED on the predictable routine of a MP core.   

 

I would urge you to post on the special needs section of the MP forum too.  Be as specific as possible, and you will get LOTS of great advice on how to place your child.   (What works for one child who is dyslexic will not work for every child.)   Cheryl Swoop is very active on that forum, and she literally wrote the book on providing a classical education to children who might learn differently or need extra support in a few areas.   They might be able to suggest a few possible placement options and you can then look over the samples and decide what is going to be best for your child.   Also, keep in mind, that their customer service is FANTASTIC.   You can call or email them and get help putting together a custom package if you want to leave out a few books or sub in a few others.   

 

To answer your specific question, I wouldn't use audiobooks completly.   I think a better idea would be to find the literature package that your child could read (with help from you) on their own.  That may mean that you drop your child down several grade levels (and that is FINE!), however, I think it is important to keep practicing phonics and reading.    (Meeting the child wherever they are able of course.)  If you use a MP core, you will be reading aloud or listening to audiobooks in many, many subjects (e.g. schedule read alouds, classical studies, christian studies, american/modern, etc.)  but literature is where it is expected that they are practicing the skill of reading on their own.   That is just my 2 cents.

 

Just to give you an example, their SC 3 package (for kids *around* 3rd grade skill wise who are struggling) uses the standard 1st grade literature books.  And if those books seem too easy, check out what they are reading in SC 4 or the Core 2 literature.   So don't be afraid to meet your child wherever they need to be.   However, I would encourage you to not give up on working on reading their literature completely.   (Again that is just my 2cents.)  

 

 

Edited by TheAttachedMama
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Still considering options for 3rd grade for next year. Would it work for me to read aloud the material, or is it all designed to be read by the student? We would use our own language arts (finally found a program that works for her!) so will that be okay? Or does it all work together? Would jumping in at 3rd grade be a good idea, or is that too late to get into Memoria Press?

I have never used a full core from MP, but have used lots of their individual pieces. I use Latin consistantly. I have used and liked some of their science materials, Christian studies, and lit guides as well as art cards for memorization. I have always read almost all of it aloud. We do a lot together with my kids 2 yrs apart. They have lit books they read on their own and science texts they read on their own. But most everything else we have done together. So when we read a Shakespeare play we will take turns reading aloud, then I read the questions aloud from the MP study guide and we discuss. I never had them do the written work for MP's science or lit. We just discussed it together and did an occasional project. 

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The literature program is specifically designed to be read by the student. The content areas, though, would be fine for you to read aloud. 

 

Honestly, as much as I adore MP, I wouldn't do it with a dyslexic kiddo who struggles with reading and/or writing. Not a full core. I might pick and choose materials from several levels of cores (and they have lesson plans you can buy separately for each subject in each grade), but not a full core. MP is super reading and writing heavy -- and it really ramps up in third grade. Don't be afraid to mix and match different things in the cores, though. You could use 2nd grade literature, but third grade content subjects, for example.

 

I have kiddos with dyslexia and I have kiddos with other special needs. None have been able to handle a full core.

I've also tried MP's Simply Classical a couple times (expensive "trials," lol), but wasn't super impressed. Like the regular MP cores, it seems to assume pretty linear development of skills (albeit at a much slower pace). And the SC cores are much harder, imo, to mix and match. They do offer the option and separate lesson plans for each subject, as with the regular MP cores, but so much of each subject with SC ties directly in with other subjects that it makes it hard. And the enrichment is, imo, really lacking compared to the regular cores. I understand that the focus is on developing skills, but content subjects supply the joy in our homeschool, as my children struggle with the skill areas of reading and writing -- so content subjects are as important to us as skill subjects (because we believe joy and beauty have as big a place in education as learning to read and write). 

 

 

Edited by AimeeM
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We're definitely going to do the mythology from MP3, because I think she'll like it, but do discussion questions as a mixture of oral discussion and me scribing for her and me scribing and then her copying. Might start Prima Latina from Simply Classical 3, using the modified simply classical lesson plans rather than the regular lesson plans. Going to do the American History reading from MP3 as well, again doing the discussion more orally or me scribing for most of it. 

 

I ordered the writing from Simply Classical, the sentence one, that looks to be exactly where she is right now. We'll start that now and just continue it next year I think. 

 

We may or may not do their science..I have plenty of science stuff here and we do a TON of documentaries, so will see about that one. 

 

For reading: We will continue with Abecedarian because it is WORKING. I just ordered the spelling supplement as well. And then I think we may just keep having her read whatever books I find at the library that she can read with confidence, and then IF she can do it, at some point do MP Prairie School book and guide. That one is in MP2 or Simply Classical 3. It's the only one I see that would have a guide to go with it that might be at her level. 

 

And then I'd read aloud the books in MP3 or use audio books, for say Farmer Boy, Mr. Popper's Penguin, etc. Mainly because  can't imagine holding her back from enjoying and discussing those level of books until her reading level catches up, I just don't know when that will be and I don't want to keep our literature exposure/discussions at the level of "Put me In the Zoo". I think we need to keep moving forward with good books, as we are, even if she can't read them. Again, would probably do discussion orally at this point. 

 

In good news, her stamina for listening to me read is growing! I one and a half chapters of Trixie Belden last night and she was BEGGING for more! (had to stop to make a cake for the baby's birthday). So yay! (Trixie was my favorite growing up, so sharing those books makes me ridiculously happy). 

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The Diana Hanbury King Writing Skills series is what OG tutors will often use for writing. Dyslexics will also have organization issues. Personally, I would not be focusing on copying and answering the more boring than death questions of the MP guides. Those are for NT kids who thrive on that sort of, well I'll shut up. There are kids who thrive on it.

 

My greatest word to you is read Dyslexic Advantage and EMBRACE whatever your dd is. Not just the dyslexia, but the whole profile of how her brain thinks and approaches the world. My dd, straight ADHD, fit the narrative learner profile in DA. When I realized this, it UNLOCKED our homeschooling and allowed us to soar. Figuring out her profile will help you predict better what she'll do well with.

 

That's really good that she's enjoying your read alouds better. Definitely do read alouds and audiobooks. You could do almost anything you want as far as discussions. I really like the How to Report on Books series. Yes, discuss the books. 

 

Does she enjoy that Story of Painting? Is there anything she's really into? You might let your book discussions flow from books that spawn from what she's really into. She'll be more likely to engage. 

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OP, I'm glad you are developing a plan & that you've found some good fits from the MP materials (and that you posted there: whoo-hoo!)  Also: I totally <heart> Trixie Belden myself.  I wonder if either of my sons would love the series as much as I did ...

 

I find the MP workbooks to be useful, but do not use them as scheduled; and many MP-using families do not have the child answer all the questions.  It is especially common to make the Christian Studies work oral, and do one level for the whole family each year. 

 

Regarding the utility of workbooks: my older child is a STEM-oriented fellow who just doesn't relate to many traditional story lines (his brain doesn't run along the expected lines AND he tends to skim).  We hit a sort of wall in his reading comprehension and MP has been invaluable in helping sort it out.  I do like the vocabulary and quotation sections of the guides, and I generally use the questions as an oral comprehension check.  As you noted in an earlier post, sometimes the workbook questions/answers don't line up well with the actual reading, and sometimes I really disagree with the MP answer (esp. in upper levels). 

 

Here is what I learned from using the MP books:

1.  Step one if the child has poor comprehension during independent reading (may not apply to dyslexic children!!): move to pair-reading, or having the child read aloud.  Doing this regularly for difficult books has really upped comprehension and helps build a skill of going more slowly. 

 

2.  Comp. questions have a place in a classical educator's toolbox.  I don't think my younger child will need them, but for the older, using basic comprehension questions lets me assess his reading and deal with problems early.

 

3.  The guides are most helpful for books where you really want retention.  For Coolidge's "The Trojan War", we write vocab & quotation information for each lesson, do comp. questions aloud, and the child does the quizzes open-book.  I think this will really pay off when we hit the Iliad and Odyssey next year, and it is the only book I've had him do quizzes for because I want to hammer those story elements & "facts" into his head. 

 

4.  Cautionary tale: MP highschool students are sometimes struggling with literary analysis essays and, more generally, with approaching complex literature when there's no guide to work from.  So in the long term it is important to build up the child's skills apart from the workbooks.  Right now I do this using WTM-style discussions and Writing With Ease for the younger child, plus using the literary analysis sections of Writing With Skill for the older. 

 

ETA: MP is addressing this last themselves -- they are great about continuously working to make sure their curriculum is meeting folks' needs.  I understand that they are having children work without student guides, or with student guides that provide much less scaffolding, in their newer high school materials. 

 

This is a great discussion.  I learn so much from these threads!

Edited by serendipitous journey
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I know you didn't ask for advice here, but if she found the details in TAN's SOC a bit too much to take in (my kids found it to be too much and didn't retain much), I might suggest you pre-read each Mythology reading and be ready to "read" it a bit more densely aloud. 

Also, I took MP's study guide for Greek Mythology and re-wrote it a bit (a lot). For example, when I wrote it, I took the "vocabulary" and we discuss each vocabulary word as it comes up in reading (instead of separately) for context; I took the "discussion questions" and rearranged them in such a way that allowed me to use each in reverse -- instead of asking the question first, and using the TM's answer to decide if the answer is or isn't correct, I used the answer in the TM to first restate the point, then ask the question (similar to the flash-back method we use for digraph/phonics cards, and general recitations, for my kiddos with dyslexia/working memory issues). Also, the portion of the "activities" that has the student look back at certain pages of the DA book and name/find certain things/characters, I re-wrote to do prior to discussion questions, immediately after reading. 

 

I believe the SC Writing: Step-by-Step Sentences (which is Level 2) ties into their read alouds for that SC Level, just as an fyi. I've heard great things about their writing. Like I said above, though, most of the SC-leveled subjects seem to tie into other subjects. And the way read alouds are approached for SC is very different (imo) than the same is approached in the regular cores. We love their regular Read Aloud and Enrichment sets (and we use them). 

We're definitely going to do the mythology from MP3, because I think she'll like it, but do discussion questions as a mixture of oral discussion and me scribing for her and me scribing and then her copying. Might start Prima Latina from Simply Classical 3, using the modified simply classical lesson plans rather than the regular lesson plans. Going to do the American History reading from MP3 as well, again doing the discussion more orally or me scribing for most of it. 

 

I ordered the writing from Simply Classical, the sentence one, that looks to be exactly where she is right now. We'll start that now and just continue it next year I think. 

 

We may or may not do their science..I have plenty of science stuff here and we do a TON of documentaries, so will see about that one. 

 

For reading: We will continue with Abecedarian because it is WORKING. I just ordered the spelling supplement as well. And then I think we may just keep having her read whatever books I find at the library that she can read with confidence, and then IF she can do it, at some point do MP Prairie School book and guide. That one is in MP2 or Simply Classical 3. It's the only one I see that would have a guide to go with it that might be at her level. 

 

And then I'd read aloud the books in MP3 or use audio books, for say Farmer Boy, Mr. Popper's Penguin, etc. Mainly because  can't imagine holding her back from enjoying and discussing those level of books until her reading level catches up, I just don't know when that will be and I don't want to keep our literature exposure/discussions at the level of "Put me In the Zoo". I think we need to keep moving forward with good books, as we are, even if she can't read them. Again, would probably do discussion orally at this point. 

 

In good news, her stamina for listening to me read is growing! I one and a half chapters of Trixie Belden last night and she was BEGGING for more! (had to stop to make a cake for the baby's birthday). So yay! (Trixie was my favorite growing up, so sharing those books makes me ridiculously happy). 

 

Edited by AimeeM
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I know you didn't ask for advice here, but if she found the details in TAN's SOC a bit too much to take in (my kids found it to be too much and didn't retain much), I might suggest you pre-read each Mythology reading and be ready to "read" it a bit more densely aloud. 

Also, I took MP's study guide for Greek Mythology and re-wrote it a bit (a lot). For example, when I wrote it, I took the "vocabulary" and we discuss each vocabulary word as it comes up in reading (instead of separately) for context; I took the "discussion questions" and rearranged them in such a way that allowed me to use each in reverse -- instead of asking the question first, and using the TM's answer to decide if the answer is or isn't correct, I used the answer in the TM to first restate the point, then ask the question (similar to the flash-back method we use for digraph/phonics cards, and general recitations, for my kiddos with dyslexia/working memory issues). Also, the portion of the "activities" that has the student look back at certain pages of the DA book and name/find certain things/characters, I re-wrote to do prior to discussion questions, immediately after reading. 

 

I believe the SC Writing: Step-by-Step Sentences (which is Level 2) ties into their read alouds for that SC Level, just as an fyi. I've heard great things about their writing. Like I said above, though, most of the SC-leveled subjects seem to tie into other subjects. And the way read alouds are approached for SC is very different (imo) than the same is approached in the regular cores. We love their regular Read Aloud and Enrichment sets (and we use them). 

 

Thank you. I get what you are saying. I find if we stop and discuss after each "section" of SOC she can narrate it beautifully, sometimes even f we do a whole chapter. But we will definitely keep in mind some flexible was to use the guide!

 

As for the writing, there are two version of the Step by Step Sentences. One ties into the read aloud, the other goes with a  bible story book, so we got that one (and the bible storybook). But good catch :)

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Oh, I should say this would be an experiment year, lol. I've done this long enough to not be wedded to anything, and be willing to change if it doesn't work. I have a few options for history in mind for the middle school years if we don't stick with Memoria Press, but none of them have younger versions at this time, so it's a good time for us to experiment. And everyone seems to say 3rd is a good grade to switch if going into MP. 

 

And I'll be honest, I like that they have a school that has actually tried these things, and that they have a special education teacher with her masters to help answer questions and provide guidance as I tweak things. 

 

But...we will see - we may end up in Catholic Textbook Project or Notgrass eventually after all. Who knows. 

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Edited by ktgrok
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OP, I'm glad you are developing a plan & that you've found some good fits from the MP materials (and that you posted there: whoo-hoo!) Also: I totally <heart> Trixie Belden myself. I wonder if either of my sons would love the series as much as I did ...

 

I find the MP workbooks to be useful, but do not use them as scheduled; and many MP-using families do not have the child answer all the questions. It is especially common to make the Christian Studies work oral, and do one level for the whole family each year.

 

Regarding the utility of workbooks: my older child is a STEM-oriented fellow who just doesn't relate to many traditional story lines (his brain doesn't run along the expected lines AND he tends to skim). We hit a sort of wall in his reading comprehension and MP has been invaluable in helping sort it out. I do like the vocabulary and quotation sections of the guides, and I generally use the questions as an oral comprehension check. As you noted in an earlier post, sometimes the workbook questions/answers don't line up well with the actual reading, and sometimes I really disagree with the MP answer (esp. in upper levels).

 

Here is what I learned from using the MP books:

1. Step one if the child has poor comprehension during independent reading (may not apply to dyslexic children!!): move to pair-reading, or having the child read aloud. Doing this regularly for difficult books has really upped comprehension and helps build a skill of going more slowly.

 

2. Comp. questions have a place in a classical educator's toolbox. I don't think my younger child will need them, but for the older, using basic comprehension questions lets me assess his reading and deal with problems early.

 

3. The guides are most helpful for books where you really want retention. For Coolidge's "The Trojan War", we write vocab & quotation information for each lesson, do comp. questions aloud, and the child does the quizzes open-book. I think this will really pay off when we hit the Iliad and Odyssey next year, and it is the only book I've had him do quizzes for because I want to hammer those story elements & "facts" into his head.

 

4. Cautionary tale: MP highschool students are sometimes struggling with literary analysis essays and, more generally, with approaching complex literature when there's no guide to work from. So in the long term it is important to build up the child's skills apart from the workbooks. Right now I do this using WTM-style discussions and Writing With Ease for the younger child, plus using the literary analysis sections of Writing With Skill for the older.

 

This is a great discussion. I learn so much from these threads!

Wow, this is a really helpful post! As someone who is leaning toward trying out an MP core this is useful to hear as I have a son with ASD who has a complicated profile.

 

That is good to know about high school analysis too...I wonder if folding in elements of Teaching the Classics would be useful to stretch the student more?

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...

 

That is good to know about high school analysis too...I wonder if folding in elements of Teaching the Classics would be useful to stretch the student more?

 

I would say: yes! :)  I should say, MP cores are a full course of work so if you add somewhere you may have to lighten somewhere else, esp. if you have multiple children.  And over-tweaking/amending can become too hard to maintain. 

 

That said, the Teaching the Classics elements seem like a great fit to me.  They apply well to all sorts & levels of literature, and you can decide how much time you spend on them, and they definitely build up a child's literature toolbox. 

 

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We switched to MP this year and pieced together parts of MP 2 with SC 3 depending on skill level and it has been our best year yet. For the first time, I feel like everything we're doing is working, especially for my dyslexic, aspie eldest who really struggles. We'll be moving into SC 4 and MP 3 combo next year. It takes the convenience of opening one plan and go out of it, but it has been so worth it to have everything at that sweet spot for challenge and growth instead of frustration or boredom. Hope you love SC as much as we have!

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We switched to MP this year and pieced together parts of MP 2 with SC 3 depending on skill level and it has been our best year yet. For the first time, I feel like everything we're doing is working, especially for my dyslexic, aspie eldest who really struggles. We'll be moving into SC 4 and MP 3 combo next year. It takes the convenience of opening one plan and go out of it, but it has been so worth it to have everything at that sweet spot for challenge and growth instead of frustration or boredom. Hope you love SC as much as we have!

If you don't mind me asking, what parts of MP 2 did you use and what parts were SC 3?

I may bite the bullet and do MP 2 and 3 next year for my kids with the only change being continuing with our own math and using SYS instead of their new spelling or SWO. I have one little with ASD and I have wondered about doing a blend.

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