Talk me through junior high/high school math

[mamamoose]

My daughter is just finishing Math Mammoth 6. She has done well with it. As I see it, she can go two different directions and after a conversation with a public school mom yesterday, I'm second guessing the route we initially planned. 

 

I had planned for her to take MM 7 (Pre-algebra) next year and then find an algebra course for the following year. I'm not even sure which direction I would go, but the public school she might attend for high school uses all Saxon. Her son took Saxon Algebra I in 7th (he's definitely an advanced student but compares it seems to both of us to my daughter). I'm just wondering if we should ski MM7 and go straight into Algebra. Has anyone done that? Then what comes next and how does that sequence transpire?

[happypamama]

I don't know anything about MM, but before you do algebra, you do want to make sure you are solid on prealgebra.  My daughter who used Saxon for many years did Algebra 1/2 (prealgebra) in 7th and then Algebra 1 in 8th.  Then she did Geometry in 9th, is doing Algebra 2 now in 10th, will do Precalculus/Trigonometry next year in 11th, and probably Calculus in 12th.  She's a good math student, but it's not her favorite subject.  My current 7th grader will follow the same sequence, most likely, except that he is using AOPS and may finish Algebra 1 before 8th grade ends.  He is more math oriented than his older sister, so he very well may take a few college Calculus classes, and/or some of AOPS's extra books.

[wapiti]

Do not skip prealgebra - there are topics covered that your dd would need.  That doesn't mean you can't compact it along the way as seems appropriate.

 

A normal high school sequence is a year each of:  algebra 1, geometry, algebra 2, precalc, and then calc if there's time.  Algebra 1 in 7th is a typical gifted or very advanced sequence, algebra 1 in 8th is "regular" advanced, algebra 1 in 9th is normal.

 

I don't know how the Saxon sequence typically goes.  You can probably find sequence info on the high school's website if you google creatively (e.g. site:highschoolname.com math track).

 

If you are doing algebra 1 in middle school at home, use whatever program you want, and simply prepare for high school placement testing using Saxon materials - I'd recommend a Saxon final exam - to make sure you have sufficiently covered everything they test for, how the questions are asked, and don't need to add any little topics.

 

ETA, for an especially math-talented kid, Saxon would not be my favorite, so I'd look into whether the high school offers additional depth/talent development opportunities, such as a math club that participates in the AMCs.

Edited March 19, 2018 by wapiti

[PeachyDoodle]

I have no idea if this would become an issue for you, but the older versions of Saxon do not break geometry out into a separate course. It is integrated throughout Algebra I, Algebra II, and Advanced Math. I believe that the newer versions (since the publishing company changed) have separated geometry into its own course, generally taught in 9th (advanced) or 10th (regular) grades.

 

It might be worth a look into which version of Saxon the public school uses so you can be sure to fill that gap if necessary, or keep from setting her up to repeat stuff she's already learned.

 

FWIW, my daughter is doing Saxon Algebra 1 as a 7th grader. But she also did Saxon 8/7 (pre-algebra) in 6th. If MM 6 thoroughly covers topics like fractions, decimals, and percents, it might be possible to go straight to Algebra 1, but I'd take the placement test for Saxon (or whatever you decide to use) first. It's also not a race, though. (I'm saying this for myself, as I tend to forget that! :) ) 

[Momto6inIN]

We use MM and I wouldn't skip 7. If you have the "old" version of MM1-6 from before MM7 was released, you might be ok because it was accelerated then and many people who used it went straight to algebra afterwards. But definitely not with the newer Common Core aligned version. Also, most of my kids have really *needed* that year of pre Algebra to get their hormonal pubescent brains ready for Algebra. Ymmv

 

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[Bonsai]

My dd went in a very different direction, taking two years of pre-algebra. She used Arbor Algebra's Jousting Armadillos last year (G7) and is finishing up AoPS's Pre-Algebra this year (G8). She is a solid math student, but never enjoyed it or felt confident with it. This is the first year I've seen her actually enjoy the process of math. Her confidence has really bloomed. She is "playing" with math for the first time, exploring statistics with the help of excel. It was really worth spending the extra time on a solid pre-alg foundation.

 

I don't know if your learner has to complete calculus before graduation - that seems to be the consensus here? Post-secondary here requires pre-calc in G12. Many schools don't even offer calc on site, although it is always available as an e-class.

[mamamoose]

She is considering med or vet school (most likely vet) so at this point I think its safe to say she is science degree college bound, so I want to be sure she covers bases for that track. I do not think we will move to Saxon--I actually don't know which direction we will go and we haven't entirely decided if she will enroll in high school or not. I just looked and the local high school scores in the 37th percentile in the state in math testing so that is concerning as well, as the state is low nationwide. I would prefer she not enroll, but I don't want to shut that out as a possiblity.

[dragonflyer]

This was a few years ago...

I homeschooled Algebra 1 in 9th because my mom was not paying attention to how things had changed since she was in school.

I took Geometry in public school in 10th and discovered that I was "behind."

I had to double-up Algebra 2 and Trig in 11th.

So that I could take Calculus in 12th, because that was what the "smart" kids were doing.

I got college credit for Calc 1.

I walked into my first class on my first day of college in Calc 2 .... and sat behind a senior whispering "D is for Diploma" over and over to herself.

I majored in Computer Science and never had any trouble with math.

 

So back to you:

If your daughter takes Algebra 1 in 8th, she will be ready to take Calc in 12th, yay?

If your daughter takes Algebra 1 in 7th, will she be ready for it? Also, what will she take her last year of high school? Calc 2? Will the colleges even accept a high school calculus credit?

[Farrar]

Algebra I in 8th grade is pretty standard. Really affluent districts have kids doing it in 7th grade more and more, but it's not the norm. I actually just looked at the numbers on this because my own algebra 8th graders were convinced they were behind. Pshaw. Last numbers from about five years ago have about half of American kids taking some advanced math - including algebra I and geometry - in middle school. And the study I looked at suggested that it's being dumbed down, unfortunately. No reason to rush. 8th grade algebra is right on track for a motivated, solid student.

[mamamoose]

The last two posts were amazingly reassuring, so thank you for that.

[mamamoose]

So she took the Derek Owens pre-algebra placement and aced it and when I look at the curriculum she has been through all but the last two chapters. If that’s the case we can cover everything easy enough for algebra next year. Is Derek Owens dumber down? Because I have heard good things around here. 🤔

Edited March 21, 2018 by mamamoose

[Pen]

I'd have her take pre-algebra next. If she wants to move forward sooner, she could start during the summer or whenever she finishes MM6.

 

If MM is working for her, I'd stick with it as long as possible.

 

If you are certain she will be going to the public school that uses Saxon, you could switch to Saxon when MM ends, otherwise I'd find an algebra 1 program that you think best fits your dd and her learning needs.

 

Unless she herself wants to do more advanced math sooner, I'd not push her to move into Algebra 1 early.

[RootAnn]

So she told the Derek Owens pre-algebra placement

I have never heard of a placement test for DO. Did you email for it?

DO is not dumbed down.

[mamamoose]

I have never heard of a placement test for DO. Did you email for it?

DO is not dumbed down.

Yes I did, in fact and they very promptly emailed back with it! That’s the direction I am leaning.

[mamamoose]

I'd have her take pre-algebra next. If she wants to move forward sooner, she could start during the summer or whenever she finishes MM6.

 

If MM is working for her, I'd stick with it as long as possible.

 

If you are certain she will be going to the public school that uses Saxon, you could switch to Saxon when MM ends, otherwise I'd find an algebra 1 program that you think best fits your dd and her learning needs.

 

Unless she herself wants to do more advanced math sooner, I'd not push her to move into Algebra 1 early.

How do I know which one to move her into? That is the rub! I don really know where to start for sure, but have heard good things about DO. I like that it’s self paced, but taught as an online type class. My other thought is The Potter’s school. I know I don’t have the time to teach algebra, even though I took higher maths in college. I have a dyslexic kiddo and another younger one who just still require too much time.

[RootAnn]

Yes I did, in fact and they very promptly emailed back with it! That’s the direction I am leaning.

 

Learn something new every day. Assuming your kid is okay with keeping her own deadlines, DO is a great option. (My oldest needs a live class or at least one with live deadlines.)

[mamamoose]

Learn something new every day. Assuming your kid is okay with keeping her own deadlines, DO is a great option. (My oldest needs a live class or at least one with live deadlines.)

She is very motivated.

[jaredluvsjoanie]

Math Mammoth 7 is a stellar pre-algebra program. I feel it is the best level of all of them, and your daughter would be well served by completing it. She will be more than prepared for algebra.

[arliemaria]

Math Mammoth 7 is a stellar pre-algebra program. I feel it is the best level of all of them, and your daughter would be well served by completing it. She will be more than prepared for algebra.

What does MM 7 teach that is not in AoPS or DO Pre-A?

Edited March 22, 2018 by arliemaria

[mamamoose]

Math Mammoth 7 is a stellar pre-algebra program. I feel it is the best level of all of them, and your daughter would be well served by completing it. She will be more than prepared for algebra.

We intend to complete this at this point. I think I need to decide which direction I’m going for algebra now.

[Pen]

How do I know which one to move her into? That is the rub! I don really know where to start for sure, but have heard good things about DO. I like that it’s self paced, but taught as an online type class. My other thought is The Potter’s school. I know I don’t have the time to teach algebra, even though I took higher maths in college. I have a dyslexic kiddo and another younger one who just still require too much time.

 

I hear good things about Derek Owens.  No personal experience.

[jaredluvsjoanie]

What does MM 7 teach that is not in AoPS or DO Pre-A?

I was referring to the levels of Math Mammoth. 😊 Since she has already completed the first 6, going on to the seventh seems only logical. The format/teaching style is familiar, and the content is top notch. I have no experience with either Derek Owens or AOPS, so I can offer no valid comparison.