Dyslexia after remediation

[lyssaflin]

We used Barton for dyslexia remediation a few years ago and completed vision therapy. It was a lot of work, but it made a huge difference. He can read when necessary, and likes to read when it's interesting, but it's clear that he has to work harder at it than a neurotypical child.  I notice that he starts a lot of books, but rarely finishes any.  Of course, we listen to a lot of audio books. I understand that ds (14) will always be dyslexic, but I don't know what expectations should be at this point.  

 

TIA

[OneStepAtATime]

:grouphug:

 

FWIW, I think this REALLY depends on the child.  Some kids will never find it worthwhile to read for pleasure because the effort is just a lot more than the reward and sometimes their personalities and interests just don't lend themselves to lots of pleasure reading.  Others will absolutely be willing to put in that effort because reading for pleasure truly is pleasurable for them.

 

What might help is to have a set time each day schedule where you both just sit down and read your own things while eating a small snack, maybe listening to quiet music.  It can be short, maybe 30 minutes.  Have him try to stick with one book and eventually make it all the way to the end.  Perhaps a book in a series he really likes that you already started "reading" using an audio book format so while reading the next book he is already familiar with many of the characters/settings.  Try to pick a book series that is high interest but perhaps a bit below his decoding/fluency level.  It might encourage him to read more.

 

Honestly, though, some kids will never be big on reading for pleasure.  That's o.k.  Truly.  As long as he can read when necessary and read when interested, that's awesome.  Is he able to read what is necessary in academic settings?  How fluid is his out loud reading?

 

FWIW, my DH has never ever liked reading for pleasure.  He reads for information and sometimes something really quick for fun in an area of interest but otherwise he has never had any desire to read novels or short stories or poetry or anything else along those lines.  Part of it, I think, is that reading was always a LOT of work for him (dyslexic) but also, his personality is such that those things just don't interest him.  But he is a successful engineer and reads when he needs to.  He enjoys life, has a good career, and doesn't seem deprived at all by his lack of interest in reading for pleasure.

 

My son loves books but prefers audio books for pleasure.  He reads a lot but it is mostly for finding information in areas he has interest.  He rarely picks up a book for fun.  Until he found areas of interest that inspired him to want to read for information he did not read as much.  Once he found areas of interest he read a lot more.  

Edited March 7, 2018 by OneStepAtATime

[Storygirl]

I really think it varies, as well. My daughter's previous OG tutor is dyslexic but has been able to complete a master's program in education and is a special education teacher. But she still used her approved accommodations throughout her college classes. She says that reading still tires her brain, even though she decodes well enough to teach others.

 

DD12 was found by the neuropsych to have a severe phonological impairment about three years ago when she was tested. Now she passes the phonological testing that her school uses for assessments (private school for dyslexia). But she still only reads aloud at half the typical speed (60 words per minute instead of 120). And her spelling will always need help.

 

At her school, they do not stop OG instruction. DD does not receive it at a tutoring level any more, but they integrate OG into her writing instruction.

 

Are you certain that he does not need more review?

 

 

[OneStepAtATime]

Also, just to give an idea of reading for pleasure that is truly pleasurable vs. lots of work, I love books.  I mean I LOVE books.  I was reading voraciously as a child and continued that practice all through my adult years as well.  Reading was fun because the physical act of reading was effortless so all I had to focus on was actually visualizing what the book was describing for me.  I loved reading.  But then my eyesight got wonkier and wonkier.  It has become a LOT of effort to read.  It causes strain.  My eyes fatigue.  I can do it, but the physical act detracts from the pleasure of reading.  Sometimes I still read real books anyway because I REALLY want to read that particular book but a lot of times I start a book and just quit.  It is too much work.  I have other ways to enjoy myself in my limited down time that don't involve so much work.  It is somewhat easier with my Kindle because I can make the font bigger but I prefer the feel of physical books.  They just are a lot harder to enjoy now.

 

With your son, he may need more time to find things of interest to him that make the effort to read for pleasure actually worth that effort.

[OneStepAtATime]

I really think it varies, as well. My daughter's previous OG tutor is dyslexic but has been able to complete a master's program in education and is a special education teacher. But she still used her approved accommodations throughout her college classes. She says that reading still tires her brain, even though she decodes well enough to teach others.

 

DD12 was found by the neuropsych to have a severe phonological impairment about three years ago when she was tested. Now she passes the phonological testing that her school uses for assessments (private school for dyslexia). But she still only reads aloud at half the typical speed (60 words per minute instead of 120). And her spelling will always need help.

 

At her school, they do not stop OG instruction. DD does not receive it at a tutoring level any more, but they integrate OG into her writing instruction.

 

Are you certain that he does not need more review?

Good points. 

 

DD likes to read but it definitely tires her brain.  She has to read in short spurts.  And she is still essentially translating.  She can decode with fluency at grade level now but there is a delay between her reading the word and the word translating into something meaningful a lot of the time, even words she is very familiar with.  If she is tired it is an even longer lag time.  Therefore, when reading for pleasure, what might take a NT person a few hours might take her days and days to finish, even reading silently.  With that kind of time invested, it has to be something she really wants to read.

[Storygirl]

I would suggest that you encourage him to use accommodations such as audio versions of texts or immersion reading. Or sign him up for a service that will provide audio versions of texts (even textbooks) for free -- Learning Ally or BARD -- with a documented diagnosis of a reading disability.

 

If he can use those accommodations for school work, his brain may not be too tired to also do free reading. DD12's school does assign them to read for 30 minutes as homework (any book they would like).

 

And it is true that some people just don't choose to read for pleasure. I have a child like that, and I've learned that it's okay if he never loves reading, as long as he is gaining skills.

[PeterPan]

Nothing brilliant to add, just that we're where you are. Ds "can" read but doesn't choose to. I've woven it into our day in lots of small, gently increasing ways. Like I use a reading science and reading social studies grade leveled comprehension series, and I give him math worksheets that involve reading. We do comic reading as part of our morning, positive thinking portion of our day. To me, if I can get bits of 5 and 10 minutes, over and over, eventually I'm adding up to my target.

 

There *is* data to say that people who begin reading later still go through the steps of beginning readers, needing time spent reading to build fluency. So the fact that it's HARD holds them back from spending that time, making for a vicious cycle. 

 

On top of his reading disability, my ds had comprehension issues (which most dyslexics don't). He also seems to enjoy reading non-fiction more than fiction, so we've been doing school reading with non-fiction and audiobooks for fiction. I'm just now thinking it's time to begin adding in books to our day in an assigned fashion. I think we'll keep it brief. With your ds, just the fact that he's beginning shows that he wants to read. Is the issue the level of the books? Maybe he needs assistance to pick books that are shorter or closer to his level? Recreational reading should be multiple grades below his technical reading level. You might see if adjusting the level and providing some structure and motivators would help. Dedicated daily reading time followed by something motivating like snacks could work. :D

[exercise_guru]

I am curious have any of you tried an easier book and had your child follow along to an audiobook?

 

Also they now have books on amazon where the reader can switch between reading the ebook and listening to the audiobook and it keeps track of your place. That would help.gerrinf through a bigger book like warrior cats but still reading a chapter here then listening to a chapter. We do this at our house simply by getting the audiobook and the regular book.

 

Automaticity takes longer for many kids to get that decoding to pair with their innervoice. It's probably more important to choose high high interest materials over reading for information and wearing them out with intensive textbook reading. Use other resources if you can qualify for that.

 

We have to do this for writing. My son is taking a very long time to build automaticity and so I try very hard to let him scribe for less interesting stuff and put the handwriting where he can get the most interest and validation. I want him to feel good about his progress and grow it writing but it will always be more work for him and use more of his energy.

Back to reading

For a 14 year old they make a lot of high-low nonfiction and fiction. They are books that are interesting to older kids but written at a 2nd to 3rd to 4th decodable level. You could look for those at the library or online. Capstone makes a lot of those as does scholastic. Also English as a second language books are far more decodable and interesting because they know to use the know common words. So look for those as well.

 

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

[Pen]

It depends a lot on the child and how severe the dyslexia.  But doing a lot of reading tends to make reading easier.  And vice versa.  (Like many things where even if you learn how, if you don't get a lot of practice you tend to get rusty, but worse I think for reading if dyslexic.)  I'd recommend if at all possible finding books he can reasonably enjoy at a level where it is not a struggle for him to do it, and getting him to read them.  I think starting books and not finishing is fairly normal, either because they don't end up being all that interesting, or because one gets to the end of the interesting plot and the end is anti-climax and no longer worth the effort.  But you might ask him why he starts but does not finish as it could help to determine what could be a better book choice, perhaps.  Or maybe that he needs to do more follow up VT exercises.  Or does he have ADHD and is not much able to stick with things in general?

[suenos]

Can't share anything helpful about future expectations for your DC in terms of improving his fluency/enjoyment of reading  - I'm still in the trenches with my DS 10 with dyslexia.

 

But: my DH was an undiagnosed "stealth" dyslexic - not recognized until after high school. He reads, but rarely for pleasure.  It's too much of a chore to be relaxing or fun.  He reads to DS.  He reads articles and  things he wants to or needs to.  But not novels, for example, generally.  He's completed a B.A. and is working on an M.B.A.  

 

So, just to encourage you both - my DH has found so many more tools available (even better in the last few years alone), it's incredible. He can listen to nearly all of his M.B.A. "reading" assignments - and trained himself to do it at high speed.  I'm getting over my bias against "eye reading" and have been lately listening to audio books with him, something we never shared before. 

 

TBH, I will probably have to do some private grieving if DS never enjoys reading like I do.  But I really do feel confident that he will be capable.  And have all the advantages of a learning life steeped in literature and stories and all the rest from our family read alouds, videos, and audio tools. 

 

Ok, I hope that last didn't sound...snotty or anything...just meant as good vibes for the end goals I'm pretty sure we all share.  :blush:

 

 

 

[ElizabethB]

If you do a quick review with my syllables program, then a daily nonsense word fluency drill, it might increase his reading speed enough that reading is more enjoyable.

 

My students have varied in how much they are able to read and enjoy after remediation, and the faster they end up the more likely they were to read more.

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/syllablesspellsu.html

Edited March 8, 2018 by ElizabethB

[Heathermomster]

My entire family listened to audio books in the car long before we realized DS was dyslexic, so he heard many books. I consider audio books to be a great advantage because children can listen and comprehend books 2-3 years above their reading level. My DD loved Lord of the Rings when she was younger. Anyhoo..

 

I just asked DS whether he prefers to eye or ear read, and he replied that the situation depends. Eye reading without tech takes longer. For his pleasure books, he turns on text to speech with his old Kindle Touch. He also uses immersion software with his Bookshare account. I’d rather he complete a book using audio rather than not read at all. He eye reads his science and history textbooks. Either way, his comprehension is high, so we rarely consider his dyslexia at all.

[Lecka]

I have been trying for a while to help my 12-year-old establish some independent reading habits. I have been trying to build a routine where he reads at night before bed. It’s okay. I still look for books for him and try to get him into series, with mixed luck.

 

He likes to re-read favorite books. Most of the books he likes are favorite series that also have a movie or tv show, that he also likes.

 

He also likes the Wings of Fire series, and re-reads it.

 

He has re-read some books that I read to him when he was younger.

 

He is a good reader now, but he is quick to put down a book if it doesn’t gain his interest quickly. He is quick to find a book boring or find one little thing he doesn’t care for.

 

He likes the books where he has already gotten a big hook for liking it.

 

I don’t think it’s exactly a reading issue, as far as his reading skill. He’s fine now. But I don’t know if he develops characters in his mind very well just by reading about them. I think he likes books where he already has that character development from the movie, or where it is really clear for him (Wings of Fire). I don’t think he picks up on a lot of little details of character development, and I think that makes books more boring for him.

 

He can follow plot great. He is fine with non-fiction reading.

 

Anyway I think it’s good enough for now. He does some kind of reading daily. It may not be expanding-type reading or going-deeper type reading, but it is still reading.

 

It’s a lot less than I used to hope, but I am happy with how he is doing now. He turns out to have his interests and preferences lie in other areas, and I am happy with it. Overall I don’t think it’s holding him back or that it’s a level that will hold him back in doing what he needs to do in his life. It’s just not something he really is drawn to, but he is drawn to other things that are a good fit for him.

[Lecka]

At this point I don’t think my 12-year-old is a really verbal kind of kid. He is fine, but he doesn’t build up a nuanced picture from reading in the way a more verbal kind of child will.

 

It’s not that he has a gap between reading and listening. I see it sometimes with movies too.

 

It’s hard to explain but maybe maturity will help, and if not he is more drawn to other things anyways.