Beast Academy / Teaching Textbooks

[EmmaGM]

It's another math question, I'm sorry.

 

I have a 5 year old halfway through Math U See alpha. We're all pretty much over MUS and feel like it's holding him back. When he finishes this I'd like to switch programs.

 

My original intention was to go to Teaching Textbooks basically only because it's so independent. That means he'd be "skipping" a second grade program and going straight to Math 3. I've heard that TT is about a grade level behind so this makes sense.

 

However, my husband thinks TT is not rigorous enough and we'll be doing yet another disservice to him. He likes the look of Art of Problem Solving and thus wants to start Beast Academy for 2nd grade. It certainly seems a more rigorous program. Is there enough practice in it?

 

My main concern with BA is that while my son has grasped math easily, he got a slower start with reading. We're still almost a year out from starting it, but I'm worried I would have to read everything to him and in comic form, wouldn't that be confusing?

 

Any other suggestions welcome, too. We looked at Singapore but I am so turned off by needing to buy 87 books per year for it. [emoji849] That's the only other program we've looked at.

 

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[MeaganS]

I have children doing both programs. DD9 does TT3. It is very easy. My advanced 5yo could do it. It is definitely very hands off, but it wouldn't be my choice for most kids because it really is not very deep, at least not yet that I can see. For some kids and situations though, it is perfect. That's the case with my DD9 who is math phobic, has some learning and attention issues, and needed me out of the picture. 

 

I have 2 other children using BA. It is more involved parent-wise. I do read aloud the guide with my kids, even though they both read fluently. They just want me to and it is a good chance for me to make sure they understand the material. It doesn't confuse them, especially because you can use different voices for different monsters. :)

 

A large proportion of problems in the practice book are word problems. You would need to read them to the child.

 

While it can be used as a stand alone, most people at least supplement BA because it doesn't have a ton of review and most kids need more practice. Or just want another approach. So I have used Miquon and Math Mammoth with it at various points. Both are very good. If you liked Singapore but want more streamlined, MM might be a good option for you as it uses as similar style but all in one book and is written to the student.

 

If you really want a more stand-alone math, maybe look at CLE? After level 1, it can be very independent and is considered solid traditional math.

[Sk8ermaiden]

My personal opinion is that BA isn't a standalone unless your kid gets stuff without any review. We like it, but as a supplement.

 

We do Singapore and I only buy the teacher's guides and the workbooks. It's 4 books a year (Beast academy is 8 books a year.) When there are threads about this on here, a LOT of users are not buying a million books for SM. 

[Jackie]

We use Beast Academy as a standalone program. It generally has enough practice for my daughter. I do occasionally give her extra problems on basic operations (multi-digit multiplication and division) because she needed a bit more practice in order to do these fluently without needing to carefully remember each step.

 

It is fairly reading heavy. My daughter reads the comic book independently for fun, but then we buddy read it just before she works on that section. It’s fun; I especially like doing the pirate voice. :) Some of the workbook pages are more number-heavy and some are more word-heavy, so how much you would need to read would be a bit hit and miss.

[Erielle]

I feel like TT is probably a year or so behind the grade level it says it is while Beast Academy is a bit ahead.

 

TT isn't rigorous but it gets the job done. I have a young second grader, who prefers online/electronic learning, so he is currently using TT for 3rd grade. I could've probably placed him in 4th grade in TT and he wouldn't have been far out of his comfort zone. We did Beast Academy for a while. He loved the comic guide but hated the practice book. It was more trouble than it was worth for us so we put it aside. We may try again later but for now we're comfortable with where we are.

 

Honestly, you could probably do both TT & BA if you wanted to. TT as a core/spine and BA as a supplement for extra practice and logic.

[LMD]

I love beast academy. We have found enough practice and the comic style hasn't confused them. I agree that you could do both TT and BA - maybe your dh could do BA with him a couple of times a week?

 

Honestly, I think making math independent for a 5 year old is doing him a disservice. Even teaching textbooks.

[UnlikelyHomeschoolingMama]

My daughter is in 4th grade and is a fantastic reader.  However, we've never done graphic novels or anything like that....and reading to learn MATH can also sometimes be difficult. So while she reads a lot of the time on her own, I will often come in and read it WITH her to stop and make sure she is understanding as she reads.  It isn't THAT much reading, so I think it'll be fine. 

 

 

[Julie of KY]

 

My main concern with BA is that while my son has grasped math easily, he got a slower start with reading. We're still almost a year out from starting it, but I'm worried I would have to read everything to him and in comic form, wouldn't that be confusing?

 

 

 

Don't let his reading ability to keep you from doing Beast (or any other program). You'll have to read it to him no matter what and the comic style is fun.

 

My son is finishing up 5th grade Beast and I read every word to him - of the text and workbook. He's doing great at math; I just wish he reading would come along faster.

[Farrar]

Beast can absolutely stand alone, but for the right kid. Some kids need more practice. For them, Beast might still be a good side program or supplement, or it might not.

 

I think you didn't really give enough information for anyone to know if Beast is the right program for your student though. And it can be hard to know. It's a really challenging program that requires a kid who is willing to be frustrated by not always being able to get the right answer right away, or possibly ever.

 

You don't need a million different books to do Singapore math. Some people just use the workbook. Or just use the textbook and workbook. You don't even necessarily need the Home Instructor's Guide for this age. The large number of books in Singapore is really part of its flexibility as a program. I have only rarely heard of a student who does the textbook, workbook, extra practice, intensive practice, and the challenging word problems all in one year.

 

However, there are other "rigorous" options in the same vein as Singapore but are laid out differently. There's Math Mammoth, which is just one worktext. There's Math in Focus, which is a Singapore math but looks more like an American textbook.

 

I'm with your dh though... if you think your student is going to have a knack for math, I wouldn't do TT.

[8filltheheart]

I was going to respond similarly to Farrar.  SInce she typed all of that out, I won't bother.  But, you have made a huge leap from MUS to choosing between 2 radically different programs (TT and BA).  MUS is very hands-on, visual, and repetitive/mastery.  

 

If he likes hands-on, Right Start might be a good fit.  If not, MM and MiF are both mastery programs, but not at all similar to MUS.

 

FWIW, my kids have all gone through Horizons for elementary level math which is a spiral program (my preference).  Hands-on Equations is a good supplement.  

[SoCal_Bear]

I would echo to say that TT and BA are pretty opposite in terms of math curricula.

 

I am one of those with a math adept student, and I used SM followed by BA a level behind. We do a lot of math around here. So, I did also use the Challenging Word Problems (went much deeper than the ones in SM's TB/WB) and Intensive Practice books. I do CWP a couple of sections behind where I am in SM and IP 1/2 level behind (A book when I am in the B book). It seems like a lot of books, but it's pretty much open and go for us. You could just use SM TB/WB and be good with just that and use BA a level behind. IMO, I don't think BA has enough practice for the majority of kids. Using BA a level behind removes frustration because you already introduced the concept, practiced and mastered it. BA will take it to a deeper level without the concept being brand spanking new to them. The focus is on the deeper thinking and problem solving that BA is known for.

It's super obvious when using SM what you do because there are notated stopping points for each lesson marked with a pencil icon.

[daijobu]

 

My main concern with BA is that while my son has grasped math easily, he got a slower start with reading. We're still almost a year out from starting it, but I'm worried I would have to read everything to him and in comic form, wouldn't that be confusing?

 

 

I have had a few kids I tutor with BA, and I enjoy reading the characters out loud for them, even the older girls who read chapter books easily.  This also allows me to force a stop at those stop signs where students are to attempt the introductory problems first before continuing to see how Ms. Q solves them.  Sometimes if it isn't clear I'll include, "Lizzie says..." or point to whichever head of the two-headed beast is speaking.  

 

With my own children, I read out loud from the AoPS textbooks, from pre-algebra on, because it's easier to understand that way.  

[PinkGrits]

I have an third grader that is just about to finish TT3 (slated to finish the first week of April) and should finish Beast 3D by the end of May.  I absolutely LOVE using these two in tandem.  TT hits on some things that Beast doesn't and vice versa.  Yes, TT is much simpler than Beast (BA is for advanced students) but seems to be very thorough yet doesn't go into depth.  My daughter seems to fly through TT with little interaction from me.  Since Beast is more challenging, we do the guide together and I absolutely love the growth mindset that Beast promotes with the starred problems that really make her have to think hard.  I would definitely recommend using these two together.  My daughter used to not really like math, but now says it's her favorite subject. 

[EmmaGM]

Beast can absolutely stand alone, but for the right kid. Some kids need more practice. For them, Beast might still be a good side program or supplement, or it might not.

 

I think you didn't really give enough information for anyone to know if Beast is the right program for your student though. And it can be hard to know. It's a really challenging program that requires a kid who is willing to be frustrated by not always being able to get the right answer right away, or possibly ever.

 

You don't need a million different books to do Singapore math. Some people just use the workbook. Or just use the textbook and workbook. You don't even necessarily need the Home Instructor's Guide for this age. The large number of books in Singapore is really part of its flexibility as a program. I have only rarely heard of a student who does the textbook, workbook, extra practice, intensive practice, and the challenging word problems all in one year.

 

However, there are other "rigorous" options in the same vein as Singapore but are laid out differently. There's Math Mammoth, which is just one worktext. There's Math in Focus, which is a Singapore math but looks more like an American textbook.

 

I'm with your dh though... if you think your student is going to have a knack for math, I wouldn't do TT.

The Singapore website is really not very helpful. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what the extra workbooks are used for. Would there be plenty of practice in just the workbook?

 

My husband is dead set on trying BA one way or another so at this point I'm looking for something to pair with it / be a fallback. I'm pretty well talked out of TT and I can't see paying $120 twice for math anyway. I really like the look of math mammoth.

 

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Edited March 12, 2018 by EmmaGM

[Farrar]

The Singapore website is really not very helpful. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what the extra workbooks are used for. Would there be plenty of practice in just the workbook?

 

My husband is dead set on trying BA one way or another so at this point I'm looking for something to pair with it / be a fallback. I'm pretty well talked out of TT and I can't see paying $120 twice for math anyway. I really like the look of math mammoth.

 

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I think you should probably just go with Math Mammoth, which is straightforward and cheap and just as good for most kids.

 

But if you go with Singapore, it's not that complex.

 

Textbook - introduces concepts and has some problems (think "classwork" problems)

Workbook - practices all the basic concepts

Extra Practice - for kids who need more practice before they get it, typically good for kids who are a little behind or struggling

Intensive Practice - harder problems for kids who need more challenge

Challenging Word Problems - all word problems, they're actually challenging, also good for kids who need more challenge

Home Instructor's Guide - the teacher book for you with lesson plans, etc.

 

It's not rocket science so you can potentially skip the HIG. Most people do some combo of 2-3 of the above books. Textbook and workbook is the most common, but if you had a kid who needed more, there's more options. Kids who get concepts fast may not need the workbook - you could do the textbook and the Intensive Practice, for example. 

[EmmaGM]

I think you should probably just go with Math Mammoth, which is straightforward and cheap and just as good for most kids.

 

But if you go with Singapore, it's not that complex.

 

Textbook - introduces concepts and has some problems (think "classwork" problems)

Workbook - practices all the basic concepts

Extra Practice - for kids who need more practice before they get it, typically good for kids who are a little behind or struggling

Intensive Practice - harder problems for kids who need more challenge

Challenging Word Problems - all word problems, they're actually challenging, also good for kids who need more challenge

Home Instructor's Guide - the teacher book for you with lesson plans, etc.

 

It's not rocket science so you can potentially skip the HIG. Most people do some combo of 2-3 of the above books. Textbook and workbook is the most common, but if you had a kid who needed more, there's more options. Kids who get concepts fast may not need the workbook - you could do the textbook and the Intensive Practice, for example.

Thank you so much, this is so helpful!

 

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[SoCal_Bear]

EmmaG,

 

I wrote this a long time ago about Singapore Math because a number of homeschoolers kept asking me about and how it works.

 

https://lifeatwarpspeed.wordpress.com/?s=singapore+math

 

 

[Epicurean]

They're releasing BA Online later spring. I think that will address the problem of needing more practice.

[arliemaria]

We use BA with occasionally SM IP and CWP, but also a gazillion other math things.  The last few days he's gotten into this math game called Sprouts.  You can google it.  Simple to play, but lots of math if you look into the relationships, etc.  We do XtraMath.  My son is 2E and although he can think and understand difficult concepts he isn't always very fast.  So we are trying to get quicker at his facts, even though he already knows them.  You could start your son with the addition fact practice.  That is totally independent work.  Since he is familiar with the math u see rods he could do the fact practice on the Math U See site. 

 

When my son was five we did some vintage math workbooks I had picked up at library sales, etc.  Those were independent work.  They were self teaching or very intuitive work, similar to me in how SM 1A/1B were very intuitive.  He also did those around K.  He played a lot of apps like all of the DragonBox games.  Those are beautiful.  You could give him a basket of cuisenaire rods and let him watch some of the videos online Education Unboxed.  We did Life of Fred Apples then too.  He watched some math shows on YouTube.  We played LOTS of games together.  Oh and mazes!  We had so many maze/puzzle books.  He played logic games like Traffic Jam.  I guess my advice is to play with math at this stage.  Mobeius Noodles was fun.  Waldorf math circles were neat to explore.  Skip counting games like hopscotch.  We had the Right Start book called Games for the AL Abacus.  There are also free books online with a million games you can play with a deck of cards.

 

It wasn't long after we did all these things in K/1 that he got VERY interested in Galileo and Euclid.  Stories about mathematicians.  Also Benjamin Franklin.  He literally checked out EVERY book about Benjamin Franklin in our entire statewide library system over a few months.  He cried for Leyden jars.   

[Targhee]

BA as a semi-independent program requires fluent reading. It can be used working side-by-side though. Honestly, the time invested in one:one math in the early years reaps exponential rewards in the future, both in independence and in mathematical fluency and competency. Even for math kids. I would opt for BA (or Singapore) together next year, and hold off on a completely independent program.

 

As to comments about whether BA is a stand alone program, it definitely depends on the kid. It was for my middle two. I do admit that they used DreamBox independently as well, mostly as a way of seeing math in different contexts. I didn’t align it to what we were covering in BA - it was more a tandem program that got about 60 min a week of use. They both started in 3A after strong one:one before that in RS / Singapore, and worked about 50-60% independtly in the beginning. By the time each hit level 4 I was mostly on retainer and just kept in the vicinity for when I was needed, which wasn’t very often. BA matched their learning styles well.

[eternalsummer]

DS9 does both.  He does TT a grade level ahead (so 5th grade) and BA a grade level behind (so BA3, give or take, although he does 4 sometimes too because we have it).  TT I make him do every day, just the next thing.

 

BA I say "go answer 4 questions in any BA workbook you can find."  I don't care what the questions are or which book they come from.  We never talk about the TT (I check the grades on the quizzes every now and again, we don't have the second chance/hint thing enabled, so it's pretty accurate I figure); we often talk about the BA.  

 

The only problem I see with TT is that it goes very fast.  DS does two lessons a day, or a lesson and a quiz; it takes approx. 20-30 minutes and he'll be done with TT5 before summer.  BA goes much slower - 4 questions can take quite a while or not much time at all depending, but 4 questions is only 1/5 or so of a lesson.  So I figure we'll take some time off between TT levels to do just a lesson a day of BA (or just go through what was missed with the 4 questions random approach) before moving to the next TT level.

 

The thing is, he's kind of noncompliant about schoolwork.  BA has him fooled because of the monsters and because I can tolerate talking about 4 questions a day and he can tolerate doing 4 questions a day.  TT doesn't have him fooled but he's more tolerant of it because it is on the computer and has moving cartoon graphics on occasion.