Small update: Need to decide about testing for 6th grader in b&m school who may need IEP?

[Storygirl]

You will need to decide if you are okay with what you are offering, or if you want to push them to follow the federal law.

 

Whom did you send the letter to? This is a key question.

 

It should go to the PUBLIC school special education department, even though your children are enrolled in private school. It is the public school that has the federal mandate to evaluate for learning disabilities. A copy can be given to the private school, because they are involved.

 

And it should not be the teacher who responded, but the case manager for the special education or intervention department.

 

If you want to insist, you can follow up by saying that you understand the Child Find policy of the federal IDEA law (you can read all about this on the state department of education website) and that parents have the right to request evaluations conducted through the public school. And that you have therefore forwarded your request to the public school.

 

The public school can decide that there is not enough evidence to evaluate. However, they must do so in writing on the proper legal form (called a Prior Written Notice), and they must consider your request thoroughly first.

 

So you can accept what they have to say, or you can make sure that you are getting the request to the right people and see if you can move things forward.

[SKL]

The information I got from the public school is that I should send the letter to our school principal, and the principal would send it to wherever it goes in the public school system.

 

I guess I should reply to the public school lady and tell her what I was told, and see what she says about it.

 

I have not sent the letter to the principal yet, I sent it to my kids' teacher as a draft in case he had any thoughts.  Perhaps that was a mistake.  I told him I wanted to send the letter to the principal by Friday.  The teacher spoke to the principal and told me what I mentioned above.  So I think they are telling me I should not send the letter officially to the principal ....

[SKL]

Sorry to sound stupid, but what would be the reason for our principal to not want to ask for an evaluation?

[JanetC]

If you request an evaluation from the public schools, by law they must do one within 30 days. Your school may not want to deal with a kid on an IEP, but you have the legal right to request evaluation if you want it. Go through the public school your child is zoned to attend.

[Storygirl]

Sorry to sound stupid, but what would be the reason for our principal to not want to ask for an evaluation?

 

Some schools are willing to evaluate, and some balk, and I don't really know why. It may be that your private school prefers to handle things in house as much as possible, before involving the public school. It may be that they have a set system of intervention ideas that they like to try before doing evaluations. Some schools call this Response to Intervention (RTI) and some schools avoid using that name, but have a set approach they like to follow.

 

But the federal government has decided that schools are NOT allowed to delay evaluations in order to conduct RTI (or similar). The school must do the intervention steps DURING the evaluation period, not before it, if an evaluation has been requested.

 

http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/rti.index.htm

https://www.understood.org/en/school-learning/special-services/rti/understanding-response-to-intervention

 

If you asked the teacher for his opinion, he is giving his opinion, and perhaps the principal's opinion. But their opinion is NOT the law.

 

If you decide to press on this, you can submit your final copy of your letter to the principal of your school and to the special education department at the public school at the same time. And they they will HAVE to respond with legal notifications to you, instead of just opinions.

 

When I requested evaluations from my children's private school, I found it confusing. I submitted the request to the private school and made sure I marked it TIME SENSITIVE etc. on the envelope. And they failed to forward it to the public school. There is a whole story here that I won't go into.

 

However, the public school STILL had to respond to the request by the 30 day legal timeframe.

 

Your public school person that you called may have been just someone who answers the phone, instead of a case manager. Or they may know that private school principals just forward those things on to them.

 

But the private school principal does not have the legal right to refuse or delay evaluations. If you accept what they say, know that you are doing it out of agreement that they have other things to try with your daughter, and you are fine with that.

[katilac]

I would personally be pursuing private testing at the same time, because it may take you time to gather information and then get an appointment. You can cancel an appointment at the last minute, but you can't get an appointment at the last minute. At a minimum, I would want to know what kind of a wait time is usual. Six months? Book it now. 

 

The school giving her more support helps now, but it doesn't nail down the problem and it doesn't create a paper trail for accommodations in the future. Also, testing can sometimes result in specific strategies to actually help correct the problem. For example, if a child has difficulty reading due to dyslexia, I would want them to have Barton or other instruction to actually improve reading skill, as opposed to just getting extra time on tests or whatever. Some learning differences may always require accommodations, some may not. 

[Lecka]

If you want her to have this in place for 7th grade then I don’t think this is a good option.

 

You also may need to really ask, is there a mechanism for extra help at he private school to follow her to public school next year, without an IEP?

 

Because there may not be. Maybe there is, maybe there isn’t, but an IEP *is* that mechanism a lot of times.

 

On the other hand maybe there is a RTI program at the next school that would be a good fit for her and she could go right into it next year. Is that what they have in mind? Or something like that? Some kind of extra help that is formal, but doesn’t require an IEP? And is that okay with you? What are the ramifications?

 

I think you would ideally make an appointment with someone at the school to see what they say.

 

It’s not their decision to say you “can’t†request an evaluation.

 

They could think this is a better course for some reason.

 

One possibility I wonder about — do they think the public school will just decline to evaluate and say “she hasn’t had extra tutoring yet.†If that’s the case — then you aren’t supposed to have to delay testing to do RTI. That’s not what is in federal law. But it might be what they do if you don’t have some paperwork or school support to say “yes she needs an evaluation.â€

 

Edit: and it could be it’s how they show, as a school, that the eval is needed — it could be their way of showing “she needs this.†They could know it’s weak and will be rejected without something like that that can be pointed to. Just speculating but this kind of thing has come up for me before.

 

I think do try to have a meeting and ask questions, just so you know what the system is!

 

A lot of times they assume people know their system, when really it’s hard to know it, and there are things where you think “well if I had known that...â€

 

You might be fine for a phone meeting, too, if you don’t want to take off work. Or emailing questions.

 

It sounds like they have some process and you need to know just what it is and then decide if it’s fine with you or if what you really want is for your daughter to have a request submitted in time for next year!

Edited March 14, 2018 by Lecka

[Storygirl]

Sorry I keep jumping in and out of this thread. I had to go out twice to pick up my children from two different schools.

 

I just wanted to say that if you think that it may be valuable for your daughter to go through the intervention steps they are proposing first, before evaluations, it's okay for you to agree to delay the evaluations. The more the teachers know what helps your child and what she struggles with, the better input they will have during the evaluation process. Sometimes more time can be beneficial. But you need to think about whether it will be beneficial to your child, or only to the school. If it benefits the school only, and not your child, it may be worth pressing for evaluations sooner. But if you feel comfortable waiting, that's okay.

 

When we requested evaluations, the school engaged in a delay tactic. It made us very angry. But we thought it through and decided that in our case, it was worthwhile for the school to have more time to get to know our children and their needs, because they were newly enrolled there (as in, it was the very first week of school). We knew some of their challenges could be hidden at first, and we wanted the teachers to be able to see what was going on with them.

 

So we did not dispute the school's delay tactic. The school did, by the way, give us a formal written denial according to the law, so we would have had to appeal to the state board of education. We decided not to; our delay was only for one nine-week quarter, so we let it play out.

 

All that to say, that while I am emphasizing the legal aspects in my posts to you, I know that families can have personal feelings for going along with what the school asks, when they want to delay. You just need to know and accept what you are doing.

 

There is a benefit to not alienating the school, as well, since you are depending them to be on the team of people who will help your daughter, not only in the classroom, but also during any possible IEP meetings. There is a benefit to being someone the school thinks they can work with amicably, because animosity in those meetings can be ugly. However, there is also a benefit for the school to know that you are a parent who knows your legal rights and won't be a pushover. You have to be willing to be an advocate for your child, even when no one else is. Hopefully you can reach a place where everyone on the intervention team is an advocate of your child, but that does not always happen. Schools may have an agenda that does not always match what is best for your child.

 

If you do decide to wait, you might send a letter to the teacher (copy the principal), saying that you understand you have the right to request evaluations now, but that you are willing to wait until X date (maybe a quarter or a semester, or a month, or whatever you choose) to do so, in order to give the school some extra time to work with her first. It would be worthwhile to ask for a meeting and/or a list in writing of all the things they plan to do for her.

 

 

[LucyStoner]

If you request an evaluation from the public schools, by law they must do one within 30 days. Your school may not want to deal with a kid on an IEP, but you have the legal right to request evaluation if you want it. Go through the public school your child is zoned to attend.

 

No.  They must evaluate your request and respond in writing within 20 school days, letting you know if they have decided to initiate an evaluation or not.  They may agree to an evaluation or refuse to evaluate.  The parents must sign a consent form for the school to start an evaluation. They then have a reasonable amount of time to complete the evaluation (which may involve data collection).  If at the completion of the evaluation, the child is determined to have a covered disability under IDEA, the school must convene an IEP team meeting within 30 days from the evaluation results.  

 

There is a common misconception that if a parent asks for an evaluation, the school has to evaluate.  That is not actually the case.  

 

If the school refuses to initiate an evaluation, there is an appeals process.

 

If the school conducts an evaluation and the parents think there needs to be a more objective or additional assessment, the parents may request an Independent Education Evaluation (IEE) at district expense.  If they are denied, there is an appeals process.  

Edited March 14, 2018 by LucyStoner

[SKL]

Looking at the school district's written policy which I downloaded yesterday, I think they are trying to complete the interventions / information-gathering that is recommended to be done before a letter asking for evaluation.  I don't think I have to wait around for them to do this, but it might make them more likely to agree that she needs to be evaluated.  I am not clear on the timeline for this step though.

 

I'm a little ticked that they did not start this process before I sent a draft letter.  I told her teacher back in October that I was probably going to do this, and a couple weeks ago I said for sure.  My daughter has flunked test after test.  He could have discussed this with the principal and figured out what additional helps they could give before now.

 

[SKL]

If you want her to have this in place for 7th grade then I don’t think this is a good option.

 

You also may need to really ask, is there a mechanism for extra help at he private school to follow her to public school next year, without an IEP?

 

...

 

I do want something in place for 7th grade.  However, she will still be in the same school until 8th grade, so there is no issue about transferring.  I just want her to be able to handle her own 7th grade workload at an age-appropriate level.  And to sleep normal hours at night.

 

Your other comments are good food for thought.  I like and respect the teacher and principal.  I don't think they are trying to be jerks.  I just want them to do something so this same issue doesn't continue into next year.

 

[Storygirl]

No.  They must evaluate your request and respond in writing within 20 school days, letting you know if they have decided to initiate an evaluation or not.  They may agree to an evaluation or refuse to evaluate.  The parents must sign a consent form for the school to start an evaluation. They then have a reasonable amount of time to complete the evaluation (which may involve data collection).  If at the completion of the evaluation, the child is determined to have a covered disability under IDEA, the school must convene an IEP team meeting within 30 days from the evaluation results.  

 

There is a common misconception that if a parent asks for an evaluation, the school has to evaluate.  That is not actually the case.  

 

If the school refuses to initiate an evaluation, there is an appeals process.

 

If the school conducts an evaluation and the parents think there needs to be a more objective or additional assessment, the parents may request an Independent Education Evaluation (IEE) at district expense.  If they are denied, there is an appeals process.  

 

I agree with all of this, except in our state, they have 30 calendar days to respond to the request for evaluations.

 

I believe 30 days is the federal guideline for that part of the process. States can make their own state guidelines that make the time lines shorter for the evaluation process, but they can't make it longer.

 

[Storygirl]

SKL, I wonder if it would help for you to schedule a meeting at the school with the teacher and the principal and whoever would be doing the intervention with her (an intervention teacher?). You can ask questions about what they will plan to do for her and how long they plan to do it before agreeing that evaluations may be needed.

 

You can point out that you would like to have support in place by seventh grade, because she has been struggling all year (or perhaps longer?)  with the same issues. You can point out that you know you have the right to request that the public school consider evaluating her now, instead of waiting, and if you are going to agree to wait, you would like an acceptable time frame and plan in writing.

 

You can express your frustration (nicely) that you have been bringing up these issues all year, but only now are these extra helps being proposed, and you can ask them to explain why you should be expected to wait even longer for things to be documented.

 

You can point out that she will have new teachers at the beginning of next year (unless the same teachers teach all middle school grades?) and that you value the input of THIS year's teachers, because they know her so well.

 

Express your concerns and see if their solutions are enough to satisfy you that your daughter will be supported appropriately.

 

You can count 30 days from the end of the school year and tell them that you plan to submit your official request to evaluate by that date, so that the process for evaluating can be in effect before summer break begins. You can point out that the public school would then be required to complete the evaluations over the summer (the 60 days for doing the evaluation count summer days), which they will not be pleased about.

 

You can point out that if you wait until the fall to submit the request, it can take half of seventh grade before your daughter will have a potential IEP or 504 in place, and that you don't think it is acceptable for them to ask you to wait through the next nine months before she is properly supported.

 

You can ask if they would be willing to write a 504 for her now, since they want to wait on the IEP process. If they say they would need more information first, you can ask them to be specific about what they need and whether you would need to provide it (for example, a medical diagnosis of some sort) or what the school needs to do to document a need for a 504. You can point out that she has been receiving accommodations now that are found in 504s (extra time on tests, etc), and that a 504 would give you assurance that she could still receive those accommodations when she needs them without each teacher having to decide whether or not they will allow them.

 

Be positive during this whole meeting and repeat the idea that you know you are all on the same team and want to help her.

 

After a meeting such as that, you would write up an account of what was discussed and what was agreed upon, and email it to everyone at the meeting, as a written record.

 

If nothing else, that meeting and written account can later serve as evidence that she has already accrued a history of needing help, by this point in time.

 

I hope you figure out a plan that will help her.

[LucyStoner]

I agree with all of this, except in our state, they have 30 calendar days to respond to the request for evaluations.

 

I believe 30 days is the federal guideline for that part of the process. States can make their own state guidelines that make the time lines shorter for the evaluation process, but they can't make it longer.

 

Typo.

 

It’s definitely school days here though. They counted out the school days, metered the refusal letter that day and then mailed it to me about a week later.

 

It was threat of legal action that prompted them to get their shit together.

Edited March 14, 2018 by LucyStoner

[SKL]

I agree that it is a good idea to talk to the principal and figure out how they see this.

 

I did email to the public school lady and she is going to call me tomorrow to discuss it also.  So I will use that as an info-gathering call and then see what my school says.  To their credit, the public school does not seem to be in avoidance mode at all.  However, I think they would rather not do this work in the summer.

 

I think my kids will have most of the same teachers again next year.  So that is a plus.  However, some of them are pretty hard core.  :P  They either don't believe my kid is trying hard, or they think it's OK for kids to flunk tests and offset those scores with better grades on the homework.  One in particular has no problem calling my kid out in class for not being a high performer.  I would like that to end.

[PeterPan]

You sent your request for evals to the teacher? Did you copy, sign, date it? And was it clear that it was a request or you were just making a draft and running it by her??

 

IF you wrote the letter and it was clear it was a request, you started the legal timeline. 

IF it was a draft and you were asking a opinion, shove what the teacher said aside.

 

The LAW says that RTI (which is what they're talking about, Response to Intervention) cannot be used to delay the eval/IEP process but instead can be completed DURING the IEP process. So find where it says that on your state dept of ed, put it in the written request, and make the written request.

 

Remember, in order for them not to deny you, saying there's no evidence of a need for evals, you need to have some evidence. I've lost the strand of the thread, but what was your evidence? She's having difficulty with work at home that the school is not seeing? Is she ENROLLED for the things you're claiming are being affected? For instance, if the disability you suspect is affecting her ability to do math, are they teaching math or you?

 

It's very touchy for them to say they require RTI for something she's not enrolled in. You could write your state dept of ed and ask if they are allowed to require RTI of homeschoolers when the student is not enrolled for the class/subject for which the school is proposing RTI.

 

They cannot, legally, even in a fully enrolled student, use RTI to slow down or stop the IEP process. That's your first thing to know solidly. The 2nd thing is to determine whether they have the legal right to require you, as a homeschooler, to go through RTI before evaling. 

 

What I did with our ps, when my ds began the IEP process, was to demonstrate that I had already used intervention materials with him equivalent to RTI. Intervention has tiers, and I was using Barton, which I think is considered a Tier3 intervention. So an alternate approach is to demonstrate that you have already done something equivalent to RTI. RTI is *meant* to demonstrate that the problem the child is experiencing is not due to lack of instruction. So it's reasonable for them to want RTI, but it's also possible for you to demonstrate you've already done something equivalent.

 

And no matter what, it's not necessary for you to allow RTI to delay the IEP process. You can choose to allow them to delay by allowing them to do what they want. But you are choosing that. It's not legally necessary, and you can press that. Unfortunately, you actually have to know the law and use the law if you want to have the protections of the law. Otherwise, they'll walk right over you.

[PeterPan]

I agree that it is a good idea to talk to the principal and figure out how they see this.

 

No, don't talk. Write. Find what your state dept of ed says about RTI and the IEP timeline. It will be on there. Your state probably has a printed handbook. In our state the ps is required to give out the ENTIRE LAW, like the whole stinking thing printed out, about the IEP process at every single meeting. 

 

Make the written request, sign, date, give it to them. Copy for your files. It's their problem to give it to the right person. They will schedule a meeting within 30 days, and during that meeting you can discuss RTI and the law and how they can proceed with evals while doing RTI. But you have to have EVIDENCE that they need to eval. Low test scores, letters from tutors, something.

[PeterPan]

Remember, by not using the correct legal terms, they're keeping you from understanding the process. They're keeping you from realizing that you have specific legal rights that you could research on your state dept of ed. What they're saying actually has words, specific words (RTI) and there are legal implications to it, timelines, everything. It's not something they just kinda whimsically suggest or think up. It's something people go to court over, timelines for IEPs and legal rights being violated.

 

So no, don't be passive. Get the correct term (RTI), learn what it is, learn what the extent of it should be and how it interacts with the IEP process, and decide for yourself. 

 

Your school may also have an ombudsman who can explain the IEP process to you. If it's 3rd party, not funded by the school, they may be objective and helpful. 

 

Some schools are awesome in the IEP process and some are utterly incompetent. The more unusual the situation (homeschooler, etc.), the more likely they are to screw things up. They might even be nice people, but it's not their norm and they screw up. So you want to read the law for yourself.

Edited March 15, 2018 by PeterPan

[SKL]

You sent your request for evals to the teacher? Did you copy, sign, date it? And was it clear that it was a request or you were just making a draft and running it by her??

 

 ,...

 

I sent it to the teacher first to give him a heads-up and a chance to make suggestions.  I called it a draft.

[SKL]

Here are the teacher's exact words with names omitted:  "What I did find out from [principal] concerning [dd] is that we need to refer her to the tutor, Mrs. ___, for additional tutoring at school. For [dd] to be considered for an ISP plan, there must be a rigorous cycle of interventions made and documented."

 

What is an ISP plan?

[SKL]

...Is she ENROLLED for the things you're claiming are being affected? For instance, if the disability you suspect is affecting her ability to do math, are they teaching math or you?

 

....

 

I am not homeschooling.  The focus of my request is her b&m school challenges.

 

[gardenmom5]

ISP - individual student plan.

 

even in the same district - the attitude towards testing can vary.  some principals just don't want to support spec. needs kids.

 

If at all possible - I would *always* encourage outside testing from your children's hospital/equivalent, or *maybe* an outside psychologist because the school can't have a test come up with the child doesn't need support.  (my kindergarten teacher friend had that happen with her granddaughter.  she told them exactly what she needed.  the parents got her to children's -and what do you know, the school started providing services.).

 

dudeling has an IEP, but just telling his teachers we are in process of now doing more on the outside, got them more willing to actually help him instead of emailing me "__ needs to do__, you could you help him?"

 

eta: the support he needed is why he is in a b&m school.  I have the energy to focus on his other needs while someone else wrestles him with school. at least he's decided he likes science and math . . . .

Edited March 15, 2018 by gardenmom5

[Mandamom]

Here are the teacher's exact words with names omitted:  "What I did find out from [principal] concerning [dd] is that we need to refer her to the tutor, Mrs. ___, for additional tutoring at school. For [dd] to be considered for an ISP plan, there must be a rigorous cycle of interventions made and documented."

 

What is an ISP plan?

 

https://www.understood.org/en/school-learning/special-services/special-education-basics/the-difference-between-ieps-and-service-plans

 

I work for a school for students with reading and language disabilities (and ADHD among, others) and we hold Service plans for the majority of our students. We are not obligated to follow the IEP but since we are a school that was designed for our group of students, most of the typical accommodations are already in place. 

 

We attend yearly meetings at the nearby public school with the parents and if the students choose to attend the public schools they already have the accommodations in place. 

 

Given what you've said already, I wouldn't delay on submitting the official notification and getting the timeline started. If you do wait I wouldn't wait past April. 

[Lecka]

 

I didn’t realize she would be at the same school next year. I think that makes the timeline less pressing. If she gets tutoring or whatever, you don’t have to worry about her losing it. It’s something you might think about for next year at this time.

 

I think you have a few different things going on.

 

I think you need multiple points of approach, because unfortunately an IEP will not do everything you hope.

 

For the teacher issues, you can advocate with individual teachers and share your perspective and your knowledge of your daughter. If they assume she isn’t making an effort, and you know she is, you can share that with them. You can email them periodically and give updates. You can schedule meetings. You would possibly have to do this even if she had an IEP. Especially with hardcore teachers. Especially if they do motivate a lot of kids with their methods.

 

They aren’t mind-readers to know how long your daughter spends. You can tell them.

 

It doesn’t sound like you don’t think she should be in their classes, though. So I think work with them. Don’t think getting an IEP will solve those issues, though. It’s no guarantee. It could help or it could make no difference.

 

I think communication goes the farthest on that.

 

The grade issue (homework/tests) I would ask about to those teachers. Do they think this is good performance. Or is itbad performance and they are doing grade inflation. I would ask them. If it’s poor performance but a good grade, then hopefully the tutoring would be able to address that. Or something.

 

You are probably going to need to be more involved in various ways, if it’s possible with this age. I am having a hard time being engaged with my 7th grader, they are not interested if there is not a problem or issue. But it’s a central school with kids bussed in from a large area, so maybe it’s from that.

 

But you can do a lot with email, you don’t have to be in person all the time.

 

I do think — ask who could tell you about their set-up, and maybe have a phone meeting or in-person meeting to find out how it’s set up and what possibilities there are.

 

I also do think — if tutoring works, I think that’s fine. It depends on the situation. It could turn out to be a good fit for her. If that is a good fit, then you may still be talking to her teachers about her working hard at home, and being turned off by some of their comments (which you can say nicely it isn’t motivating to her, or something.... I have been turned off by some things that have actually turned out to be positive for my son but have rubbed me the wrong way, so I think he sure it’s detrimental and not just venting to mom... but if it’s detrimental you need to bring it up).

 

But if you need information from evals then you might want to follow through on the evals at the same time.

 

Bring up the regulation. It’s normal! It’s normal to bring up regulations. It feels weird the first time but then it will not feel weird the next time. It’s actually not a big deal. You can bring it up and still be polite and respectful.

Edited March 15, 2018 by Lecka

[Lecka]

Just to be clear, you don’t have to go through a RTI process before an eval. But at the same time they don’t have to evaluate if they don’t think there is sufficient reason to evaluate.

 

To me this always seems like a catch-22.

 

I would ask about this at the school. I would bring up the “you aren’t supposed to have to do RTI before making a referral for evaluation†issue. See what they say.

 

The thing is, in general I think it is wrong. But I also don’t think your daughter has much in paper right now. She’s not failing anything and her teachers aren’t seeing what you see. I think you can hope the tutor sees what you see and is an advocate for your daughter. But it’s hard to say.

 

I think RTI stuff can be really good when it is the right thing.

 

I’m using RTI generically. It stands for response to intervention. It means they try some interventions, and if they work, then problem solved, they will keep using that intervention.

 

So in this case, if tutoring is an intervention, and it works, then problem solved.

 

So it can be good.

 

It can also be a way parents get put off and things get dragged out that shouldn’t be dragged out.

 

That is a judgment call for you to make. If what you really want is what you really want — bring up the regulation.

[SKL]

I have a few concerns about the tutoring.  Last week my dd told me the tutor just gives the kids the answers.  She asked the tutor to explain the reasoning, otherwise the tutor would not have done so.  (This is the first I heard this.)  There's only one tutor for the whole school (K-8).  Honestly I don't feel that is the resolution we need.  I mean, it helps her get her homework done so she can go to bed at night, but that doesn't really solve the problem.

 

Second, I have no guarantee the tutoring will continue at all, or that she will get the amount of tutoring time she needs.

 

Third, why didn't they up her tutoring time earlier if that is necessary?  Why haven't they been documenting whatever they say needs documenting?  The challenges are absolutely nothing new.  She has been getting tutoring at school since 1st or 2nd grade, every year.  Over the years, I have spoken (or written)  to every one of her teachers about what is hard for her and how long she works at night.  I may have copied the principal on one or two of the emails in the past, I'm not sure.  Her standardized test scores have never been awesome (with one exception), and and last year she had a couple areas where she did not meet state standards.  So ... does the tutor really have capacity to help my kid more?  How much more?

 

I think maybe they have been letting it go because my kid (and her mom) put so much into her homework that she usually ends up on the "honor roll."  (For context, most kids in the school are "honor roll," but it does imply no problem.)  I've squawked about how late she works most nights, but that doesn't seem to register.  Maybe I wasn't squawky enough until now....

 

So do I stop helping her with homework so people will see that it really is not easy for her?  That feels wrong.  She wants to do well and asks me to help.

 

The school publicly recognizes kids who get good grades.  My kid cares to be on that list.

 

So much to think about ....

[Storygirl]

It sounds frustrating. I'm sorry.

 

I think tutoring can be helpful. But if she is already doing tutoring, I think MORE tutoring is not necessarily the answer. You might point out that she has already been receiving this kind of help for years and ask why they think more of the same will make a difference.

 

It sounds like the tutoring is mainly homework help??? Does this school offer any intervention services other than homework help tutoring? For some students, that might be enough of a boost, but others need help from an actual intervention teacher. What kind of credentials does the tutor have?

 

At our private Christian school, there are certified intervention specialists who work with students who need extra help. They do more than homework assistance but will give extra teaching on difficult concepts. But in our area some/most private schools don't provide this. And some provide it but for extra fees.

 

These are questions you might ask, if you don't already know.

[PeterPan]

Can you make private evals happen? What do you suspect is the cause of her difficulties? It's always an uphill climb when a student is doing well. You aren't going to let her grades drop, and her grades are fine. The school is only obligated to intervene if the disability affects her ability to access her education. What disability do you suspect?

 

Someone can have a disability but not have it require an IEP. They might end up with a 504. They might not qualify for anything. 

 

Say you suspect ADHD with low processing speed (just tossing that out, I don't know what you're thinking), you can compel them to eval, even if her grades are fine. Just have some evidence and compel them. You want the question answered and it's a pretty straightforward thing. Then they might say yes, ADHD and low processing speed, no need for an IEP, yes a need for a 504. Or you could go get private evals, get it diagnosed, and bring that eval to the school. You could wait and make your written request after you have that private eval.

 

Legally you have the right, as the parent, to say you suspect a disability, say why, and have it be considered at a meeting in the legal timeframe. If you wait and go through the teacher, you're relying on whether the TEACHER decides to refer. That's the most common way it's done in schools, where the teacher observes for a grading period, suspects a disability, they do some RTI, they refer, the timeline begins. So the teacher can make the referral or you can. But waiting around for the teacher lets it all fall in their court, when you have the legal right to make the request yourself, in writing, boom done. 

 

Clinical psychs can diagnose straightforward things like ADHD, and usually those evals are less expensive, like under $1000. People on LC will talk about neuropsychs, but that's only if you suspect a learning disability. Those psychs are much more $$$ per hour. They have a lot more tests at their disposal. 

 

If you suspect something like a reading disability, you could even go with a reading tutor (Barton, whatever) who can do the CTOPP. You would just need something, some kind of evidence that a disability exists that is affecting her ability to access her education. 

 

Does your state have charter schools? Maybe she needs a different variety of school? We have schools for various disabilities in our state that will take in peer models. Maybe you'd have some more options like that?

[PeterPan]

Sorry to sound stupid, but what would be the reason for our principal to not want to ask for an evaluation?

It's called $$.

 

Looking at the school district's written policy which I downloaded yesterday, I think they are trying to complete the interventions / information-gathering that is recommended to be done before a letter asking for evaluation.  I don't think I have to wait around for them to do this, but it might make them more likely to agree that she needs to be evaluated.  I am not clear on the timeline for this step though.

 

I'm a little ticked that they did not start this process before I sent a draft letter.  I told her teacher back in October that I was probably going to do this, and a couple weeks ago I said for sure.  My daughter has flunked test after test.  He could have discussed this with the principal and figured out what additional helps they could give before now.

 

No, getting their opinion about it changes nothing, because they're incompetent and not noticing her. Think about it. Your teacher is so (untrained, new, whatever) that they don't even know the process for referrals and had to ask. That's absurd.

 

So it's possible you're dealing with incompetence, and worse yet you're dealing with people who know what's going on and are so busy, so overworked, so underfunded that they aren't going to be incredibly helpful. That means you are a salmon swimming upstream. Welcome to the world of the IEP process. Sometimes schools are super generous, super helpful, and sometimes they're just so bogged down.

 

So yes, they are going into their "busy season" for evals and they are going to skirt the law and add nothing else to their load (and budget) that they can avoid. You are going to cost them money and man hours to eval, and they are SWAMPED right now, guaranteed. It's March and there's a cycle to the IEP process: observe, refer, RTI, eval, write the IEP/504. So they have quite a few kids to push through the system right now, all jamming up like a log jam, and they have kids renewing their IEPs too. It's a totally, totally swamped time of the year. The psych at our school was going on like 3 hours sleep a night at this time of year. Seriously. They LIVE for the end of May and for this to be OVER. 

 

So no, there's no need to be so nice or wait. Compile your evidence, figure out what you suspect. For private evals and help finding someone, you could come over to LC and gab. What do you suspect? The practitioner you're looking for is a psychologist. The question is how much you can pay and which one fits what you have going on. A psychologist will run IQ and achievement testing and do questionaires for things like ADHD and executive function. They'll do these tests to see how the child works under various conditions. They'll be able to see for themselves whether the child has anxiety or ADHD or maybe has some motor planning problems or speech problems that need extra tests and referrals. So the more complex the problems, the more extra tests you need. But in general, your starting point is that you're looking for a psychologist, and you're looking for a psychologist who specializes in the disability you suspect. That's the easiest place to start.

[plansrme]

I haven't followed this thread because it isn't at all my area of expertise, but I caught the post from earlier about how to find someone to do testing. I will pass along what I did:  I called the counselor who was in charge of accommodations at a very expensive local private school ($30K/year) and asked where they referred their students.  I can't remember how I found out this woman's name, but she was quite helpful and sent me to exactly the right person.  Now, that meant I paid for testing myself, but it also meant I owned the results and was free to share them, or not, as I saw fit.

[SKL]

So the public school special ed lady finally called me back and we chatted.  She was wanting to push it into next year again, but I pushed back.  So she said, how about we just test for IQ and achievement in the near term, and then decide what to do.  I said OK.  She will have someone on her team set it up with the school for after spring break.

 

Meanwhile the school will have her spend more time with the tutor.

 

Still not sure how this is all going to work out, but at least something is happening.

[Storygirl]

I think that is a good start, actually. She really wouldn't have to agree to any testing until a month after receiving your request and then would have 60 days to do it. If you will get the testing done next month, you are shaving off a lot of time!

 

She should send you the parent permission form to sign.

 

The subtests of the IQ testing should reveal if there are issues with areas such as low processing or working memory, so you will gain more information than just the overall IQ. And by comparing those scores with achievement testing and teacher input, they can see if there is an academic learning disability.

 

Other areas that you may want to consider testing in a second round are pragmatic language (social skills) and attention. The school can definitely test in those areas.

 

The only thing to be cautious about, I think, is if the school looks at the initial score reports and decides that there is no reason to do further testing, because they don't indicate a disability. You will need to sign some documents at that point, so you may ask for a statement to be included that says that more testing may be done in the fall if the student continues to struggle. If they make an outright statement in the documents that testing shows there is no need for an IEP, that could make it more difficult to convince them to do more testing later.

 

You can always go back to them later with new documentation from private testing that contains a diagnosis, however.

 

Just so you are aware, there are different categories of disability that can qualify a student for an IEP. They are only doing the part that will test for Specific Learning Disability (SLD). A student without a SLD can still qualify for an IEP under other categories, such as Other Health Impairment (OHI) which covers many things and can include ADHD or anxiety. There is also an autism category (though not all students with autism qualify for that category on the IEP). You can look up the different IEP categories on the state department of education. It might just help you to be prepared to know what else they could test for if you decide further testing is needed later on.

 

 

I highly recommend that you read this book before you have any meetings. The IEP process is complicated, and it's important for you to know your rights.

https://www.amazon.com/Complete-IEP-Guide-Advocate-Special/dp/1413323855/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1521233985&sr=8-1&keywords=nolo+special+education

 

Great job being persistent!!

 

 

[RootAnn]

I've seen several people go through this dance where the school cuts off the formal request before they receive it by agreeing to this, that, or the other thing (extra help, monitoring, stop-gap testing). By the time the parent realizes nothing has helped because the school is not taking their needs seriously, it is almost the end of the following school year.

 

IMO, no matter what you already agreed to, put the request for an IEP/testing/accommodations in writing NOW to both the principal and the public school lady. Start the clock. They can do whatever testing, tutoring, monitoring, etc. they want in the meantime, but it makes them (the public school folks, anyway) understand you mean business.

 

All the things they've told you and offered you so far, ultimately, are things to allow them to continue walking right over you and your kid. Even if they mean well or are really great people.

 

I might know the cashier at the store is a nice lady, and I might really respect her. That doesn't change that I want my refund/exchange and won't be put off by seeing how the product works for just one more week (or month).

 

You can continue to be polite, accommodating, and pleasant in all your interactions, but get the official letter sent to start that clock. Or your daughter will still be facing the same (or more) issues again next year. Figuring out what will help her will take time. You need to start NOW. IMO & YMMV.

[Storygirl]

:iagree: :iagree:  :iagree: