How do you get anything done with puberty?!

[blondeviolin]

My 11yo is just hitting this. All of a sudden she forgets to complete assignments, doesn't read instructions, skips steps in math. This is absolutely unlike her. And then when I remind her, oh the eye rolling! (Which is also unlike her.). She is taking forever on her subjects...I'm not really a slavedriver but apparently she needs 2 hours to remember to correct yesterday's Latin and write five new sentences. GAH!

 

I bought her a planner. It's obviously not working. She doesn't want to check it. But the only reason she's remembering all of her work is because it falls within the routine of our day. But when she takes longer because her brain fell out, I have her set to the side and she can come back to it. Which she can't remember to do.

 

Tell me my responsible child will find her way back?

[OneStepAtATime]

:grouphug:

 

She will, eventually.

 

But for now you may have to shift how things get done.  Right now she may not want more parental involvement right when she may actually NEED more parental involvement (or at least some sort of reliable scaffolding to help her stay on task).  Now is when buy in is so helpful but is probably hardest to achieve.  Hugs and sympathy.

 

My strongest piece of advice?  Do not take this personally.  Don't let her be rude to you.  Let her know what you expect in the way of behavior.  At the same time please don't make mountains out of molehills or internalize her every push back as a personal attack on you or a reflection on your ability to teach or how your relationship will be going forward.  This is a tough stage.  So many posts regarding this process.  It is hard on everyone, including your daughter.  Ride it out.  Work hard to find time to spend with her that is positive and NOT academically related. 

 

One thing that helped tremendously with DD was when I started genuinely listening to her thoughts, ideas and concerns without trying to actively "parent" her through them.  Unless she asked for feedback, I started just listening and reflecting back her own questions so she felt my support without feeling like I still thought of her as a little kid.  She needed my buy in that she was growing up.  She also needed to see that I had genuine interest in and valued things she cared about that were not strictly academic.  I had to work hard to keep the teacher me from being part of every aspect of our relationship.  

 

For instance, DD started wanting to go outside as the sun was rising and just watch it rise, listen to the birds, etc.  She didn't want a science lesson or a long talk on nature.  She just wanted my company as we enjoyed the sunrise.  I would let her take the lead.  If she suggested we go outside and watch the sunrise I went.  If she didn't ask, I didn't suggest it.  I left her to decide when she wanted that bonding time.  It was a HUGE boost to our relationship, which in turn got her to be more interested in pushing through academics that she was not engaged with.  She loved those mornings and I came to find them so peaceful and calming.  Sometimes we would hold hands.  Sometimes we would sing.  Sometimes we would sit apart but periodically smile at each other.  We both cherish those days even though we tend not to do this anymore.

Edited February 21, 2018 by OneStepAtATime

[SKL]

When that happens with my 11yo's, it's because they are sneaking and doing something else - playing on the internet, reading a novel, re-doing hair or nails for the 1000th time this week.

 

I theoretically keep all their electronics in my room (though they do sneak them), and they know not to try turning on the TV when their work isn't done, but I'm not to the point of locking them out of their bedrooms and bathroom (where the books and primping supplies are).

 

Mostly I sigh a lot.

 

I have been wondering about this "middle school progress" lately.  My kids attend a private school that boasts much higher test scores in the middle school years compared to public.  I have also heard that as a general rule, it is hard to get middle school kids to advance much academically - at least in areas that aren't their favorite hobby.  So I wonder - what is a fair expectation?  There really is a lot going on at this age aside from academics.  And also, how do incentives need to be adjusted for the changes in maturity?

 

"My kids are not themselves" may be accurate, except unfortunately, they are going to be "not themselves" for years.  :P

[SebastianCat]

Daily, vigorous exercise helped my DS tremendously during the brain fog. “Go run 10 laps around the house†was a very common instruction here when he was going through it. He actually decided that he liked running so much that he now runs cross country and track for our local high school.

 

DD got much better after her cycles became more regular.

 

Make sure she is getting enough sleep (absolutely no electronics in the bedroom, not staying up late reading, etc:) and food. We were never big snackers, but the periods of brain fog usually correlate with huge growth spurts, and they need good fuel to do all of that growing.

 

Both of my kids’ hardest age was 11. (....although 15 has been a close runner up so far.). By the time each of them was 12, most of the brain fog had cleared, and they had the maturity to recognize it and to better self-regulate.

[2_girls_mommy]

My 11yo is just hitting this. All of a sudden she forgets to complete assignments, doesn't read instructions, skips steps in math. This is absolutely unlike her. And then when I remind her, oh the eye rolling! (Which is also unlike her.). She is taking forever on her subjects...I'm not really a slavedriver but apparently she needs 2 hours to remember to correct yesterday's Latin and write five new sentences. GAH!

 

I bought her a planner. It's obviously not working. She doesn't want to check it. But the only reason she's remembering all of her work is because it falls within the routine of our day. But when she takes longer because her brain fell out, I have her set to the side and she can come back to it. Which she can't remember to do.

 

Tell me my responsible child will find her way back?

My dh just read this and asked if I wrote this under someone else's name, lol. 

 

No help. I have no answers, just sympathy. 

[...................]

Same thing happened here.  We are starting to be on the other side....

 

Some things that worked:

1.  Start moving her toward independence.  Where possible, line up and explain the work ahead of time, and allow dd to complete it in her own time, with daily checks from you.  We eventually ended up outsourcing everything (online, in person, co-op, Derek Owens, etc.)  I would start moving her toward that next year.  There are many affordable options for homeschoolers such as Derek Owens for math, BJU Distance Learning (BJU classes are long... so not recommended for more than one subject),   CurrClick, and others.   I have personally found that moving kids from independent with mom (aka just doing the work, and getting checked on daily), then to independent with a good outsourced online class, then to independent with co-ops, works best.  

 

2.  Supplements such as Calcium, Magnesium, etc.  I also have my dd on Attentive CHild vitamins and I feel they are amazing.  She also takes a ton of high quality Nordic Naturals fish oils.  Together, it all makes a big difference in her focus levels.

 

3.  Sleep.  I let my dd sleep as late as she needs,  obviously this includes going to bed on time.  My dd needed 12 hours of sleep for a year, so she had to go to bed by 8:30, so taht she could wake up by 9. Many of her friends at age 13 were already going to bed at 10pm and she felt odd that she had to go to bed so early, but I pointed out that maybe her friends weren't in such a growth spurt that they needed 12 hours of sleep, and explained that she certainly can't go to bed at 10 and get up at 10, it would mess up our entire family's schedule. So, she understood.  Her sleep has scaled back a bit now that she's 14.  But keep in mind, regular sleep habits, regular bedtime routines, no Iphones or any electronics half an hour before bed, no watching TV and then going straight to bed.

 

4.  Maintain your authority.  Obviously, try to speak in a respectful voice.  Ensure that your dd gets to have ideas on her own and LET HER FAIL so that she can make mistakes and learn from them.  Little by little, she needs to have ownership of  her own life. 

 

However, you are still her parent.  If you let eye rolling go, guess what?  The next disrespectful behavior and the next, and the next and the next will all build on top of that until you have a teenager telling you "where to go"  so, if she rolls her eyes, you must act!  Calmly tell her that eye rolling is not respectful behavior, and immediately have her get out a pen and paper and write ten times, "I must treat my mother with respect even when I am frustrated."  Try not to lecture too long or too much.  But when things are calmer explain that respect starts in childhood, in the home.  So, when she has a boss, or a manager, or a policeman pulling her over, she will know how to respect someone even when you are frustrated.  The writing, immediately, works to remind my dd that there will be a consequence.  There have been times where she literally put the paper away, and then did it again and had to get it right back out.  In the moment, we give a consequence.  And then later, we talk about the root or the heart if necessary. 

 

(EDITED to add: But, I so agree with the above poster that you shouldn't make a huge deal.  Just dole out the consequence, stay calm, and if it escalates have a pre-written form with other consequences ready.  Don't take it personally or feel sad about it or allow drama to ensue. :) )

 

5.  Take her out for treats, just you and her.  I see she has quite a few younger siblings.  Having girl time alone with mom and just "being there" in case she wants to open up will be very important!! My dd has asked me a LOT of interesting questions about life, and so many things that she could NEVER do in front of siblings.  She needs to have that space with you.  

 

I really hope this helps! 

 

Edited February 22, 2018 by Calming Tea

[cintinative]

We started into this at 11 and are continuing the fun times at 12. No real advice, but lots of sympathy, and grateful for others who have been there and can offer advice here. 

[OneStepAtATime]

FWIW, I remember my boss [i was a young just married person with no kids] coming to work one day looking incredibly frazzled.  She was talking about how her very on top of things kid that was easy to parent had morphed into an over sensitive space cadet with a bad attitude.  She was so frustrated.  She told me several stories about her daughter, venting about how hard it had become to try parenting this child.  I remember one story in particular.  One day my boss had come home to find a trail of cereal and milk going from the kitchen all the way up the stairs and into her daughter's bedroom.  Even though they did not eat anywhere but the kitchen (house rule that she strictly enforced), daughter had come home from school and decided to take her bowl of cereal to her room.  She failed to notice the trail spilling out of the bowl and was highly upset with her mother for criticizing her when Mom showed up in the room and chewed her out for eating in her room and leaving a mess on the way there.  Daughter burst into tears and accused her mother of being uncaring.  Mom was flabbergasted.  Mom was a very organized person who prided herself on control of her home and her office  She came to work feeling like her house had morphed into the twilight zone and felt completely inadequate to the task of parenting at that point.

 

Anyway, I really didn't it at the time.  I get it now.   :laugh:

Edited February 22, 2018 by OneStepAtATime

[hollyhock]

She will find her way back. In the meantime, just help her out where she needs help. I've had two boys go through puberty and it seemed like they had good days and bad days. On a bad day, they couldn't remember how to narrate (!) or how to do long division, so then I just helped them through it. The next day, they might be fine and perfectly capable again. It gets better eventually.

[Ingeborg]

Just want to say hang in there  :grouphug:

My DD is almost 12 and I see the same. She used to be VERY organized, punctual, responsible, observant, quick to clue in and alter action course when required... not anymore. She does not roll her eyes, but she does think we do not understand her "as well as you guys used to...like, not 100% now, more like 95% or 90%..." (her words), We mentioned once, casually, how she used to notice and memorize a million of things around her - she became very emotional and sad, so we no longer compare in her presence. She forgets stuff, she's absent-minded and despite her honest efforts to stick to the plans she's struggling.

On a flipside - somehow I see that she feels deeper now, if you understand what I mean. In her "good" moments she's very attuned to our emotions, she's much more caring now. Her childish ego is gone.

DH and I try to go easy on her, to diffuse tensions, to help, not to nag. Does not always work, but we try. 

I recall that in her age, around 12-13 years, I had an avalanche of unfortunate consequences of my absent-mindedness and lack of organization, and I actually remember thinking to myself: "What's wrong with me? This is so NOT me!" It helps me with DD. Actually, if it's any consolation - I am a good planner now, always organized and on top of things, this is part of my occupation and I am good at my job :), so I tell myself there is a light at the end of the tunnel :)

 

Edited February 22, 2018 by Ingeborg

[Arcadia]

For my DS13 who is much more independent, I check in on him if he spends more than 2 hours on any subject. I also check in on him when he finish a subject to see if there is any prep work required for the next lesson/assignment like getting lab supplies or printing out documents/notes.

 

My DS12 all along needs handholding so nothing changes until he can be more independent.

 

I have been wondering about this "middle school progress" lately. My kids attend a private school that boasts much higher test scores in the middle school years compared to public. I have also heard that as a general rule, it is hard to get middle school kids to advance much academically - at least in areas that aren't their favorite hobby.

My district has middle school as 6th to 8th grade. Another district classify middle school as 7th-8th grade with 6th graders in the K-6th school. Generally speaking, girls hit puberty at 10/11 years old and boys at 12/13 years old. Peer pressure in brick and mortar school works both in good and bad ways. For example my neighbor’s kid just accept algebra 1 in 7th grade because more than half the school does that and he rather complain about algebra 1 homework than prealgebra homework. I hear public school kids complain at the neighborhood library but no one wanted to be last in class so they complain but do the work. The school bus drops them off at the library doorsteps. High school kids would be complaining about AP classes but they don’t want to transfer to the non-AP equivalent and they do get their homework done in study groups at the library.

[Trilliumlady]

Oh my, I have my oldest turning ten next week. Still a bit away but feel like I need to print this out now!!

[ForeverFamily]

I completely sympathize. It is a rollercoaster every single day at my house. If I look at my 12yo wrong it can cause tears and a complete meltdown. Hang in there, feel free to message me your frustration as I am right there with you. ;)

[blondeviolin]

I reorganized her schedule some and just keep reminding her to use the dumb planner. I've given her longer times to complete stuff and I guess she will just be happy to get her stuff done by 4. 🤷ðŸ¼â€â™€ï¸ I'm not sure there's much more that I can do. She is more than capable of doing what I'm asking. Thanks for the ideas and commiseration.

[zarabellesmom]

And the crying. My daughter doesn't roll her eyes, she glares or cries. 

[Ms.Ivy]

I am in the thick of this and I agree with everything everyone else above has written. I will add that the simple act of recording the time taken for each assignment REALLY helped. When there is a timer on the desk to track an activity, they don't zone out as much. I only have to pull the timer out once a week or so. Seriously helps us so much.

[MeganW]

So... how long is this stage?  Are we talking 6 months?  3 years?

[Aurelia]

So... how long is this stage?  Are we talking 6 months?  3 years?

 

Probably at least a couple of years, though it does get a little better gradually. DD, at nearly 14, is finally growing out of most of the "brain dead" moments. She still has a way to go, though. 

[lgliser]

 

But for now you may have to shift how things get done.  Right now she may not want more parental involvement right when she may actually NEED more parental involvement (or at least some sort of reliable scaffolding to help her stay on task).  Now is when buy in is so helpful but is probably hardest to achieve.  Hugs and sympathy.

 

My strongest piece of advice?  Do not take this personally.  Don't let her be rude to you.  Let her know what you expect in the way of behavior.  At the same time please don't make mountains out of molehills or internalize her every push back as a personal attack on you or a reflection on your ability to teach or how your relationship will be going forward.  This is a tough stage.  So many posts regarding this process.  It is hard on everyone, including your daughter.  Ride it out.  Work hard to find time to spend with her that is positive and NOT academically related. 

 

One thing that helped tremendously with DD was when I started genuinely listening to her thoughts, ideas and concerns without trying to actively "parent" her through them.  Unless she asked for feedback, I started just listening and reflecting back her own questions so she felt my support without feeling like I still thought of her as a little kid.  She needed my buy in that she was growing up.  She also needed to see that I had genuine interest in and valued things she cared about that were not strictly academic.  I had to work hard to keep the teacher me from being part of every aspect of our relationship.  

 

For instance, DD started wanting to go outside as the sun was rising and just watch it rise, listen to the birds, etc.  She didn't want a science lesson or a long talk on nature.  She just wanted my company as we enjoyed the sunrise.  I would let her take the lead.  If she suggested we go outside and watch the sunrise I went.  If she didn't ask, I didn't suggest it.  I left her to decide when she wanted that bonding time.  It was a HUGE boost to our relationship, which in turn got her to be more interested in pushing through academics that she was not engaged with.  She loved those mornings and I came to find them so peaceful and calming.  Sometimes we would hold hands.  Sometimes we would sing.  Sometimes we would sit apart but periodically smile at each other.  We both cherish those days even though we tend not to do this anymore.

You are ALWAYS so full of wonderful advice! Just wanted you to know that I appreciate your posts and replies!

[caedmyn]

So when does this start for girls? Before or after they start cycling, and for roughly how long on either side of starting cycles? My 12 yo late bloomer is always spacey, easily distracted, etc so I'm not sure how to tell if this is an issue for her. Seems like her focus issues have been worse the last month but it's hard to tell.

[Sneezyone]

So when does this start for girls? Before or after they start cycling, and for roughly how long on either side of starting cycles? My 12 yo late bloomer is always spacey, easily distracted, etc so I'm not sure how to tell if this is an issue for her. Seems like her focus issues have been worse the last month but it's hard to tell.

 

Before. At least a year before, maybe 18 months. DD is coming out of it now, about a year post menarche. She used to break down in a 2-year old style tantrum, on the floor and everything. The only thing that would stop the madness was breaking out my cell phone to record the hysterics. That doesn't happen anymore. She still argues and sometimes cries out of frustration but the out of the blue, out of control, foot-stomping tantrums are long gone.

[fourisenough]

So when does this start for girls? Before or after they start cycling, and for roughly how long on either side of starting cycles? My 12 yo late bloomer is always spacey, easily distracted, etc so I'm not sure how to tell if this is an issue for her. Seems like her focus issues have been worse the last month but it's hard to tell.

I also have a late-bloomer. DD13.5 hasn’t fully developed yet and hasn’t begun her period (although I’d guess it will be within 6 months), but the brain-dead phase seems to be coming to a close. I’d say for her, we’ll call the ‘rough patch’ from ages 12-14. I’m seeing signs of improvement every day.

 

It’s funny how you block this stuff out afterwards; I have two older teens (DD19 & DD17), and for the life of me, I don’t remember them going through this puberty-driven brain dead phase! Surely they did, but it didn’t leave much of an impression on me. Or maybe I was just too busy with pregnancy/nursing/toddlers/preschoolers to take note of it! Anyway, they are lovely, mature, focused, self-motivated young women now who can both fully run a household and succeed in school and outside jobs, so all’s well!

[Angie in VA]

The thread is about 11/12 yr old boys, but this post is where I first heard of SWB's suggestions of sandwich, shower, nap or exercise. 

 

I've found this philosophy works on grown ups too. 

 

 

[TracyP]

So when does this start for girls? Before or after they start cycling, and for roughly how long on either side of starting cycles? My 12 yo late bloomer is always spacey, easily distracted, etc so I'm not sure how to tell if this is an issue for her. Seems like her focus issues have been worse the last month but it's hard to tell.

 

FWIW, my 14yo dd never went through this. We've had our own set of issues, but not the "space case" stuff as described in this thread.

 

My 12yo ds does struggle with this - and always has! He has found that having a checklist/planner is essential to getting everything done. My kids all work from a planner starting at a pretty young age, but he will add stuff like piano or laundry to help him remember. He also says that when he can't focus it helps to get outside for a few minutes. He will walk down to the mailbox or even run a couple laps around the house, lol.

[serendipitous journey]

FWIW, my 14yo dd never went through this. We've had our own set of issues, but not the "space case" stuff as described in this thread.

 

My 12yo ds does struggle with this - and always has! He has found that having a checklist/planner is essential to getting everything done. My kids all work from a planner starting at a pretty young age, but he will add stuff like piano or laundry to help him remember. He also says that when he can't focus it helps to get outside for a few minutes. He will walk down to the mailbox or even run a couple laps around the house, lol.

 

May I ask what planners/planning system you use? 

 

and to all the folks who've posted: this thread has been heaven-sent for me, with my sweet, moody 12-year-old son.  He is developing such a sense of proportion and humor about things, at least.  At his last emotional crumple he picked, of the snack-nap-bath options, a bath and felt a lot better.  He returned to our kitchen homeschool space, and hugged me, and said, "I don't know what was going on with me!" 

 

[TracyP]

May I ask what planners/planning system you use?

 

If you go to Rainbow Resources and search for scripture planners, you'll see the planner I use. (can't link right now) I like the layout on these, and they are not too expensive. I write down plans in roughly 6 week chunks. My kids can work in any order, and they mark stuff off as they get done.

[BetterthanIdeserve]

My daughter turns 13 in a couple of months, and I am so thankful to say that she has really grown out of this. Ages 10 and 11 were rough around here. She was such a space cadet and took forever to complete work! I saw dramatic improvement within a few months of her starting her cycle at about age 12. I can't believe how much better 7th grade has been for us than 6th grade was. She loves being outdoors and sending her outside for a break was one of the most helpful things for her. We used a planner, and I still had to go through it with her each day because she invariably missed something. I was despairing about her becoming an independent worker, but it is happening. Now I check her work/planner about twice a week, she still often is missing something every week, but at least it is not every day. One of the most important things for us is to have one-on-one time (quality time is definitely her love language) when I start to sense a lot of tension. The other is that I am available when SHE wants to talk. Even if it means at 9:00 at night when I'd rather be done for the night. I had kind of been dreading puberty, but I've actually seen our relationship change for the better. Before, my daughter was so independent and now she needs me emotionally...at least a few nights every month. My mom told me that her worst time with my twin sister and I was at age 10-11. We got the worst of it out of our systems and could really enjoy each other in my teenage years.