Kassia Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 (edited) She said she forgives me for everything I've done. This is the first time I've heard from her in 4 1/2 years (when she tried to sue me over something she lied about). Can't make this stuff up. Edited February 21, 2018 by Kassia 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanny Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Delete the message. Do not respond to her. Eat Chocolate or Ice cream and try not to think about her. 37 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Peregrine Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 She said she forgives me for everything I've done. This is the first time I've heard from her in 4 1/2 years (when she tried to sue me over something she lied about). Can't make this stuff up. LOL, classic. Not to make light but I get it. :grouphug: 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kassia Posted February 21, 2018 Author Share Posted February 21, 2018 (edited) Delete the message. Do not respond to her. Eat Chocolate or Ice cream and try not to think about her. Oh, absolutely. I've learned my lesson over the years. A friend of mine once told me I should be the bigger person and I tried but it only came back to bite me on the butt. Never again. LOL, classic. Not to make light but I get it. :grouphug: "Classic" was my first thought! DH's was "WTF?" :p Edited February 21, 2018 by Kassia 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashfern Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 :grouphug: I second what Lanny said up above. Delete & try to forget. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 She can't help it. She has a disorder. Neither can she improve, though. What she CAN do is continue to harm you so kuddos to you for removing yourself from the cycle. Hugs and good luck. 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almondbutterandjelly Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 ((Hugs)) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acadie Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Oy vey! You sound well-equipped to decline the bait and enjoy the emotional health of the family that you built. I so appreciate and admire people who are able to break the intergenerational cycle of narcissistic wounding in families, Kassia! Amy 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 My mantra in life: "Don't engage the crazy." I prefer: don't engage with the illness. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamaraby Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Oh, gee, how magnanimous of her. Maybe she’s run out of entertainment options and is bored. In other words, thank goodness for voicemail! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Χά�ων Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 That sucks. And you have an answering machine?! Wow! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Χά�ων Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 I prefer: don't engage with the illness. I will acknowledge that your phrasing gives a clearly defined line between the person and their illness and is progressive and can help reduce the stigma associated with mental illness and I applaud you for your ability to do so. I am not there. I will still use the line "don't engage the crazy" as a reminder to myself of what I have endured and a warning to run far, far away because no matter what, it is a trap. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 :grouphug: 'cause it's all about her . . . . I'm sorry. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Oh, absolutely. I've learned my lesson over the years. A friend of mine once told me I should be the bigger person and I tried but it only came back to bite me on the butt. Never again. "Classic" was my first thought! DH's was "WTF?" :p me thinks your friend has no clue about NPD. or would she have said such a thing about any abuser who is still abusing their victims? (people who make those suggestions should be asked that.) Oh, gee, how magnanimous of her. Maybe she’s run out of entertainment options and is bored. In other words, thank goodness for voicemail! probably. whenever mil calls - with the stupidest questions - it's because she's bored. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 I prefer: don't engage with the illness. that's really nice of you an all - but these people are abusers. whatever the reason - they do serious damage to other people. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 (edited) that's really nice of you an all - but these people are abusers. whatever the reason - they do serious damage to other people. Maize has dealt with mental health issues within her own family for many years and has been open about that. She is aware of this fact and the damage mentally unhealthy people can do to those around them. She is just choosing to shift the dialogue/terms she uses and the focus regarding mental health in general and has posted regarding this before. I seriously doubt she is saying that these people (NPD in particular) are not abusers/can't cause significant harm. Edited February 21, 2018 by OneStepAtATime 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 wow I'm so sorry. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 that's really nice of you an all - but these people are abusers. whatever the reason - they do serious damage to other people. I agree. And if coping means saying don't engage the crazies...so be it. Not like her mother knows she is thinking it and that we are all saying it. Obviously she does not know. She thinks her daughter is crazy. So she's pretty far gone. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kassia Posted February 21, 2018 Author Share Posted February 21, 2018 And you have an answering machine?! Wow! Yes, we have a landline because our cell service here is awful (rural area). I do think of my mother as mentally ill and I did get to the point where I started thinking that she couldn't help her behavior because of that illness. But she is dangerous and hurts everyone close to her so I can't have contact with her. She only upsets me when she hurts the ones I love and those people are all either gone or estranged from her now. So I feel pretty free. Cutting her out of my life was one of the healthiest and best things I've ever done. 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G5052 Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Don't respond. Not after that many years. These narcissists don't know what forgiveness is other than from their perspective. Recently one said they would forgive me when I met their standards. REALLY? 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Yes, we have a landline because our cell service here is awful (rural area). I do think of my mother as mentally ill and I did get to the point where I started thinking that she couldn't help her behavior because of that illness. But she is dangerous and hurts everyone close to her so I can't have contact with her. She only upsets me when she hurts the ones I love and those people are all either gone or estranged from her now. So I feel pretty free. Cutting her out of my life was one of the healthiest and best things I've ever done. Just wanted to say I admire your strength of spirit in recognizing and then acting on these very hard facts. Hugs. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plansrme Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 How generous of her. My mom occasionally tries to make contact under the guise of looking for information for someone else, someone I couldn't possibly resist helping out. The last one was some distant relative of hers (that I'd never heard of) who wants to adopt, and she claims to be giving them advice. I'm SURE they're grateful for her input. Anyway, she wanted to know if I'd talk with them. Ummm, I adopted 16 years ago; NOTHING is the same with international adoption after 16 years. Anyway, I didn't respond that day because I was super busy, and I got a follow-up email from her saying, "I know you are as mad as hell at me, but these are good people, and I told them you'd help." Yeah, I am SURE this couple's best source of information on international adoption was me, not oh, let's say, GOOGLE. Anyway, it was all to pick a fight, to make her look good (she's generously sharing her wealth of secondhand knowledge about a single adoption that took place 16 years ago) and to make me look selfish. It was brilliant, really. Anyway, probably the next email I will get will be something like you've described. I get them about once a year; I am due for one around Thanksgiving. Thank goodness I don't care any more. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 I'm sure being forgiven is a huge weight off your mind. :rolleyes: 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fralala Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 I'm sorry. I hope she leaves you alone again and you can go back to NOT hearing from her. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kassia Posted February 21, 2018 Author Share Posted February 21, 2018 I'm sure being forgiven is a huge weight off your mind. :rolleyes: Yes, I'll sleep better tonight. :p I'm sorry. I hope she leaves you alone again and you can go back to NOT hearing from her. Me too! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebra Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 I'm sure being forgiven is a huge weight off your mind. :rolleyes: My sentiments exactly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Wow. It would still be unsettling for her to pop up again all of a sudden. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kassia Posted February 21, 2018 Author Share Posted February 21, 2018 Wow. It would still be unsettling for her to pop up again all of a sudden. Definitely. Makes me wonder what she's up to. :( 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMD Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Hahaha <--- that's an understanding, exhausted/sarcastic sigh/laugh. You can't make this stuff up hey?! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Definitely. Makes me wonder what she's up to. :(That's exactly what she wants. Stop wondering what she's up to! 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kassia Posted February 21, 2018 Author Share Posted February 21, 2018 That's exactly what she wants. Stop wondering what she's up to! Eek! You're right! I will stop right away! I have enough to worry about. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz CA Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Eek! You're right! I will stop right away! I have enough to worry about. I would not spend another moment mulling this over. You know her. Believe her when she shows you who she is. :grouphug: 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicia64 Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Hugs, these people are something else. A person w/ advanced rabies can't help it either, but that doesn't mean we want to spend Christmas w/ a rabid person. More hugs. :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: Alley 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 (edited) that's really nice of you an all - but these people are abusers. whatever the reason - they do serious damage to other people.I didn't suggest otherwise. Many mentally ill people behave in abusive ways. I wasn't trying to be nice? I was stating my preferred phrase. The words we use and the ways we use them matter. Crazy is generally used to mean mentally deranged, most often in a derogatory sense. Mental derangement, also known as mental illness, is an organic malfunction of the brain. As such it is neither chosen nor under the control of the person affected, and therefor should not be a cause for stigma or contempt. Using crazy as a label in a situation like the OP's could be problematic for a couple of reasons, both tied to the derogatory aspect of the word. If the person is, in fact, mentally ill--truly crazy--and if that is the source of their behavior--they are not deserving of contempt no matter how problematic the behavior. Avoid them by all means! But they are themselves the primary victim if their disease. If, on the other hand, we believe the person has the mental and emotional competence to truly choose their behavior (and some narcissistic behavior may well fall in this category), then labelling the person as crazy is even more profoundly problematic as it contributes to the stigma faced by people suffering from true mental illness. It reinforces the idea that craziness, insanity, and associated behaviors are in some degree chosen and therefor contemptible. My preferred framing for such a relationship would be more like "don't engage with the narcissistic (or abusive) behavior". Obviously I'm not going to be inside anyone's head policing their thoughts, but I do think it is worthwhile to suggest alternate mindful usage of words. Words frame our thoughts and shape our culture. Edited February 21, 2018 by maize 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Definitely. Makes me wonder what she's up to. :( nothing good. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garga Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 (edited) That sucks. And you have an answering machine?! Wow! Yes, we have a landline because our cell service here is awful (rural area). I do think of my mother as mentally ill and I did get to the point where I started thinking that she couldn't help her behavior because of that illness. But she is dangerous and hurts everyone close to her so I can't have contact with her. She only upsets me when she hurts the ones I love and those people are all either gone or estranged from her now. So I feel pretty free. Cutting her out of my life was one of the healthiest and best things I've ever done. I have an answering machine and landline, too. Plus I have two phones that have a wire that plugs into the wall. The one phone is push button and the other is...ready for this?...rotary! Kids walk into the kichen and see it and ask me what it is. I had one boy use it to call his mom and he dialed the numbers and then said, “But I do I make it go? Where’s the on button?†Then he realized it was ringing without having to hit an on button. OP. That message would have driven up my blood pressure. Wow, do these people know how to draw you in or what? Your thoughts have to be, “I’m not the one who needs forgiveness!! You do!†They hope you’ll call back and argue about it so they can stay calm and superior. Vent about it here whenever you want to. I’m so glad to hear you’re not taking the bait. Edited February 21, 2018 by Garga 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kassia Posted February 21, 2018 Author Share Posted February 21, 2018 I have an answering machine and landline, too. Plus I have two phones that have a wire that plugs into the wall. The one phone is push button and the other is...ready for this?...rotary! Kids walk into the kichen and see it and ask me what it is. I had one boy use it to call his mom and he dialed the numbers and then said, “But I do I make it go? Where’s the on button?†Then he realized it was ringing without having to hit an on button. OP. That message would have driven up my blood pressure. Wow, do these people know how to draw you in or what? Your thoughts have to be, “I’m not the one who needs forgiveness!! You do!†They hope you’ll call back and argue about it so they can stay calm and superior. Vent about it here whenever you want to. I’m so glad to hear you’re not taking the bait. Too funny about the rotary phone! I love that! Thanks to EVERYONE for being so kind and supportive. I am so fortunate to be a part of this group. :grouphug: 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 I hear you, but sometimes you just wanna cut to the chase and say this crazy person is ruining my dang life. She isn't saying it to her mother. She's telling people on the internet who will not be calling up her mother to tell her. Family of the "crazy" suffer a lot. And if you think the help for the mentally ill is sucky, the help for their family is worse. BTDT. I'll stick up for a mentally ill person any day of the week, but I get needing to vent and not worry about words. I didn't suggest otherwise.Many mentally ill people behave in abusive ways.I wasn't trying to be nice? I was stating my preferred phrase.The words we use and the ways we use them matter. Crazy is generally used to mean mentally deranged, most often in a derogatory sense. Mental derangement, also known as mental illness, is an organic malfunction of the brain. As such it is neither chosen nor under the control of the person affected, and therefor should not be a cause for stigma or contempt.Using crazy as a label in a situation like the OP's could be problematic for a couple of reasons, both tied to the derogatory aspect of the word. If the person is, in fact, mentally ill--truly crazy--and if that is the source of their behavior--they are not deserving of contempt no matter how problematic the behavior. Avoid them by all means! But they are themselves the primary victim if their disease.If, on the other hand, we believe the person has the mental and emotional competence to truly choose their behavior (and some narcissistic behavior may well fall in this category), then labelling the person as crazy is even more profoundly problematic as it contributes to the stigma faced by people suffering from true mental illness. It reinforces the idea that craziness, insanity, and associated behaviors are in some degree chosen and therefor contemptible.My preferred framing for such a relationship would be more like "don't engage with the narcissistic (or abusive) behavior".Obviously I'm not going to be inside anyone's head policing their thoughts, but I do think it is worthwhile to suggest alternate mindful usage of words. Words frame our thoughts and shape our culture. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Too funny about the rotary phone! I love that! Thanks to EVERYONE for being so kind and supportive. I am so fortunate to be a part of this group. :grouphug: this group has been a life-saver for me. I just got an email from my brother trying to "show me" how crazy his ex is. (they're both crazy.). he cc'd most of her relatives. I did jot him a quick note pointing out that HER relatives are not going to change their minds by including everyone else in an email chain. to stick to the subject at hand - picking up his belongings, and do NOT talk about ANYTHING else!!!! period! yes, I admit, I'm trying to teach the pig to sing. but he's not singing to me, he's finally feeling the effects of having been cut off by his own family, and not just his kids. then I sent an email to his older daughter - again - advising she read boundaries, and about narcissistic personality disorder. including links. and a bit more about the toxicity of our grandmother and the damage she did. I'm glad for what I've learned . . . . but . . . sometimes I think I'm crazy for it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodGrief Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Hugs to you. Unless one is in the club, it's tough to understand. I had to take the voicemail off our landline, because it was just too stressful. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 I think some people find it easier if they make a distinction between "My mom is a horrible person" and "My mom has a disease that, unfortunately, makes her act like a horrible person". And other people find it easier if they don't have to make that distinction. And as long as we all know what's best for us, that's what matters, right? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternalsummer Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 I think some people find it easier if they make a distinction between "My mom is a horrible person" and "My mom has a disease that, unfortunately, makes her act like a horrible person". And other people find it easier if they don't have to make that distinction. And as long as we all know what's best for us, that's what matters, right? Well, I don't necessarily disagree with you on the merits of this particular discussion re: mental illness, but re: the bolded, no, that is not what matters. What matters is the truth, imo, and/or what's best for the group with the greatest claim to being done the best for (not always me). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Definitely. Makes me wonder what she's up to. :( Would be my first thought. Sounds like you have some good healthy boundaries in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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