Lady Florida. Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 I was not a fan but no one can deny the influence he had on this country. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/billy-graham-america-s-pastor-dead-age-99-n701276 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 I've been surprised by how many of my Facebook friends have expressed unqualified admiration for BG. Myself, I have mixed feelings about his life, his ministry, and his legacy. I know that mixed feelings are usually downplayed when someone has just recently passed. I expected platitudes and softened diplomatic statements like, "A man deeply committed to his work in Jesus' name." (or something). I didn't expect to see quite so much on the theme of, "A truly great man!" 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyacinth Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 What I appreciated most about Billy Graham was his singular focus on preaching Jesus. Period. He didn't venture much into politics or denominational squabbles, and he didn't seem to care a bit about fame or money. He was all about preaching a simple message of sin and forgiveness through Jesus. In an evangelical landscape littered with scandals and controversies and egos, BG's humility is inspirational. 32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 He played a very large role in my family's lives. His son stayed in our home on several occasions through the years. My son went forward at a crusade in Los Angeles where we helped serve. Amazing he lived to age 99. 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Χά�ων Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Honestly, I hope the seeds of hatred he sowed die with him. But as said above, our society has a taboo about speaking ill, even if it is true, of the dead and the number of people singing his praise while ignoring his faults and the lasting negative impact his of words and will continue to have bothers me to know end. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechWife Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 “Someday you will read or hear that Billy Graham is dead. Don’t you believe a word of it. I shall be more alive than I am now. I will just have changed my address. I will have gone into the presence of God.†--Rev. Billy Graham This, so much this. I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me will live, even if he dies. And everyone who lives and believes in me will never die. John 11:25-26 21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 My grandma was a huge Billy Graham fan and she was a huge part of my life. I had no problem with the Billy Graham she exposed me to. But his son, Franklin, is such a nasty piece of work that I find it hard to like any of them. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-rap Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 I guess I don't know too much about him, but from what I do know, I always thought he seemed like a good and earnest man with a humble heart. He saw the good in all people, and worked with presidents of both parties. He seemed non-political to me. Now his one son is a whole different story... 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milovany Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 May his memory be eternal and may he rest with the saints. 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Florida. Posted February 21, 2018 Author Share Posted February 21, 2018 (edited) He wasn't non political. He had he ear of presidents since Harry Truman, except the 44th. If he was just their spiritual advisor as claimed that would be fine. Even presidents have the right to freely practice their religion. However he was most certainly political. He is on tape making horrible anti-semitic statements in Nixon's office. Among other things, he said they belong to the synagogue of Satan. He said he had a lot of Jewish friends but none of them knew how he really felt about them. He also tried to convince Nixon to bomb the hell out of Vietnam in a move that would have killed around a million of its citizens. Much of this came out when the Nixon tapes were released but he didn't stop trying to influence future presidents. He endorsed specific candidates at multiple levels all the way up to president. He stopped for a while after Watergate and seemed to regret his involvement with Nixon, but he still hinted at which candidates were the correct choice. If you are a religious leader who either publicly endorses a candidate or publicly says that electing a specific candidate is an invitation for the destruction of society, you are being political. If you are a religious leader who fights for or against specific political causes, you are being political. Are they not allowed that freedom? Of course they are. But then they are in fact, being political and using their status to influence others politically. To say they're not is to ignore reality. I'll leave out my feelings on evangelism, especially in non-Christian countries, but he was most definitely a political figure. He was simply able to hide it and appear as a humble preacher. Several years ago he said he regrets being so political. Those comments did actually seem humble. He said in a do-over (not his word) he would steer clear of politics and that he knows he crossed the line. By that point he wasn't influential anymore so it didn't affect him in the future, but I will give him the benefit of the doubt that he sincerely regretted some things. Edited February 21, 2018 by Lady Florida. 16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-rap Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 He wasn't non political. He had he ear of presidents since Harry Truman, except the 44th. If he was just their spiritual advisor as claimed that would be fine. Even presidents have the right to freely practice their religion. However he was most certainly political. He is on tape making horrible anti-semitic statements in Nixon's office. Among other things, he said they belong to the synagogue of Satan. He said he had a lot of Jewish friends but none of them knew how he really felt about them. He also tried to convince Nixon to bomb the hell out of Vietnam in a move that would have killed around a million of its citizens. Much of this came out when the Nixon tapes were released but he didn't stop trying to influence future presidents. He endorsed specific candidates at multiple levels all the way up to president. He stopped for a while after Watergate and seemed to regret his involvement with Nixon, but he still hinted at which candidates were the correct choice. If you are a religious leader who either publicly endorses a candidate or publicly says that electing a specific candidate is an invitation for the destruction of society, you are being political. If you are a religious leader who fights for or against specific political causes, you are being political. Are they not allowed that freedom? Of course they are. But then they are in fact, being political and using their status to influence others politically. To say they're not is to ignore reality. I'll leave out my feelings on evangelism, especially in non-Christian countries, but he was most definitely a political figure. He was simply able to hide it and appear as a humble preacher. Several years ago he said he regrets being so political. Those comments did actually seem humble. He said in a do-over (not his word) he would steer clear of politics and that he knows he crossed the line. By that point he wasn't influential anymore so it didn't affect him in the future, but I will give him the benefit of the doubt that he sincerely regretted some things. Wow -- that's something. I'm glad to hear that he regretted it and wished he could have done it differently. Sigh. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umsami Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 I was really surprised to learn watching "The Crown" on Netflix on what a big fan Queen Elizabeth was. I am disappointed that his son has such a high profile. The son is not the father. I'll leave it at that. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz CA Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 What was different about him IMHO was his readiness to admit his mistakes. There are not many who do this genuinely and publicly. I remember an interview with him many years ago when the host asked him what wish he would want God to grant him. He replied he would want to die before his wife so he did not have to live without Ruth. Then he smiled and said he realized there was some selfishness in this. He was not granted this wish but it seems, this morning he was reunited with her. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 I think he is in heaven, but I imagine he's getting a few surprises up there. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 I think he is in heaven, but I imagine he's getting a few surprises up there.Given the kind of person he managed to be, as a Christian, a sinner and a saint, in this life... I'm thinking that now, in the perfection of Christ, in surprise, in repentance and transformation -- he must be quite wonderful. I often think things like that when I am in Christian conflict: "When perfect me meets perfect you, sometime in the blessed hereafter, I think we could really appreciate each other. Lord help us get just a few inches closer to that these days, and everything will be 100x better!" Or: "To live above, With the Saints in love, Oh, that will be glory. To live below, With the Saints we know, That's another story!" 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 I think he is in heaven, but I imagine he's getting a few surprises up there. Quite sure none of us have heaven all figured out. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawz4me Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 He was a flawed human being, like we all are. He made some mistakes, like we all do. Overall I think he was a good person and a good religious leader. Certainly worlds better than most modern well known religious people. Too bad his son is so vile. I hope that won't taint whatever legacy he has. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 He was a flawed human being, like we all are. He made some mistakes, like we all do. Overall I think he was a good person and a good religious leader. Certainly worlds better than most modern well known religious people. Too bad his son is so vile. I hope that won't taint whatever legacy he has. I have to admit that I don’t know much at all about his son, but I share your feelings about Billy Graham. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 I guess I'm just very thankful to know that I don't have to be perfect in order to spend eternity in the arms of my loving Father. And discussing things he did 50 years ago that he has repented for, doesn't seem that productive. I don't think it is wrong to discuss, but to not add that he has apologized and changed FIFTY years ago, is a disservice. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 And discussing things he did 50 years ago that he has repented for, doesn't seem that productive. I don't think it is wrong to discuss, but to not add that he has apologized and changed FIFTY years ago, is a disservice. :iagree: And forgive me if I’m misinformed about this, but didn’t his son start a few highly regarded charitable organizations? I’m almost positive that I wouldn’t agree with the son’s political views, but I don’t want to vilify him if he has done a lot of good things to help people. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Χά�ων Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 :iagree: And forgive me if I’m misinformed about this, but didn’t his son start a few highly regarded charitable organizations? I’m almost positive that I wouldn’t agree with the son’s political views, but I don’t want to vilify him if he has done a lot of good things to help people. Starting charitable organizations does not make a person awesome. https://www.glaad.org/cap/franklin-graham 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Starting charitable organizations does not make a person awesome. https://www.glaad.org/cap/franklin-graham When did I say he was “awesome?†:confused: I never said anything of the kind. If you read my posts, you will see that I specifically said that I know very little about Franklin Graham and that I probably wouldn’t agree with his political views, but I thought I had heard about him having started charitable organizations, so I was wondering about that. It’s pretty clear that you detest both the late Billy Graham and his son. That’s fine. But others of us may be open to the idea that just because we strenuously disagree with people’s stances on some very important issues, we may still be able to appreciate the good work they do in other areas of their lives. It doesn’t necessarily have to be all-or-nothing. Thank you for the link, though. I will check it out. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Χά�ων Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 When did I say he was “awesome?†:confused: I never said anything of the kind. If you read my posts, you will see that I specifically said that I know very little about Franklin Graham and that I probably wouldn’t agree with his political views, but I thought I had heard about him having started charitable organizations, so I was wondering about that. It’s pretty clear that you detest both the late Billy Graham and his son. That’s fine. But others of us may be open to the idea that just because we strenuously disagree with people’s stances on some very important issues, we may still be able to appreciate the good work they do in other areas of their lives. It doesn’t necessarily have to be all-or-nothing. Thank you for the link, though. I will check it out. All or nothing? They were nothing but hate mongerers who put on a show around and for specific people to promote an agenda which is/was little more than hate painted pretty. No amount of good deeds can offset the legacy of hatred that Bily Graham pepertarted and his son continues. He used his position to spread misinformation and fear to further his own agenda at the expense of other people. His actions and resulting ripples that can still be felt today needs to be remembered, putting him on a pedestal is doing a disservice to those who bore the brunt of his hatred. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 :iagree: And forgive me if I’m misinformed about this, but didn’t his son start a few highly regarded charitable organizations? I’m almost positive that I wouldn’t agree with the son’s political views, but I don’t want to vilify him if he has done a lot of good things to help people. Yes, he runs Samaritan's Purse, which does a lot of wonderful things in the Third World. He also was very involved in World Medical Missions, providing medical services to those in the Third World. Yes, it is a conservative Christian organization. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 All or nothing? They were nothing but hate mongerers who put on a show around and for specific people to promote an agenda which is/was little more than hate painted pretty. No amount of good deeds can offset the legacy of hatred that Bily Graham pepertarted and his son continues. He used his position to spread misinformation and fear to further his own agenda at the expense of other people. His actions and resulting ripples that can still be felt today needs to be remembered, putting him on a pedestal is doing a disservice to those who bore the brunt of his hatred. I don’t know why you are being so aggressive toward me. You can hate Billy Graham (and his son) as much as you’d like. I’m not “putting him on a pedestal.†Feel free to rant and rave about the evils of the Graham family, but please leave me out of it. Yes, he runs Samaritan's Purse, which does a lot of wonderful things in the Third World. He also was very involved in World Medical Missions, providing medical services to those in the Third World. Yes, it is a conservative Christian organization. Thank you. :) I know Xapwv won’t agree with me because she said that “no amount of good deeds can offset the legacy,†but if I lived in a third world country and my child was the recipient of those much-needed medical services, I wouldn’t particularly care if I disagreed with the views of the founder of the charitable organization; I would just be thankful that he had started the charity that saved my child’s life. And I’m not a conservative Christian. :) 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 I don’t know why you are being so aggressive toward me. You can hate Billy Graham (and his son) as much as you’d like. I’m not “putting him on a pedestal.†Feel free to rant and rave about the evils of the Graham family, but please leave me out of it. Thank you. :) I know Xapwv won’t agree with me because she said that “no amount of good deeds can offset the legacy,†but if I lived in a third world country and my child was the recipient of those much-needed medical services, I wouldn’t particularly care if I disagreed with the views of the founder of the charitable organization; I would just be thankful that he had started the charity that saved my child’s life. And I’m not a conservative Christian. :) Yeah, I agree with everything you have said. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Florida. Posted February 22, 2018 Author Share Posted February 22, 2018 And discussing things he did 50 years ago that he has repented for, doesn't seem that productive. I don't think it is wrong to discuss, but to not add that he has apologized and changed FIFTY years ago, is a disservice. I pointed out that he apologized and regretted some of what he said and did. He never denounced it all and then he continued. I know that Christians will say it's because he's human and fallible but then why look up to him any more than anyone else who does the same thing? I still consider his evangelism to be offensive and harmful. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 I pointed out that he apologized and regretted some of what he said and did. He never denounced it all and then he continued. I know that Christians will say it's because he's human and fallible but then why look up to him any more than anyone else who does the same thing? I still consider his evangelism to be offensive and harmful. Who has done the same thing? I can't thin of anyone who has had the number of crusades with the numbers of people attending them. I am not going to excuse things he has done, but I do want to know what you are talking about with the OTHER stuff he hasn't denounced????? He preaches the gospel of the Bible, which is to repent for sin and turn to Jesus, who died for those sins. If you find that offensive and harmful, I don't think your beef is with him. I in no way find him infallible. Not at all. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Χά�ων Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Who has done the same thing? I can't thin of anyone who has had the number of crusades with the numbers of people attending them. I am not going to excuse things he has done, but I do want to know what you are talking about with the OTHER stuff he hasn't denounced????? He preaches the gospel of the Bible, which is to repent for sin and turn to Jesus, who died for those sins. If you find that offensive and harmful, I don't think your beef is with him. I in no way find him infallible. Not at all. https://m.clclt.com/theclog/archives/2018/02/21/billy-grahams-other-legacy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umsami Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) Franklin did not start Samaritan's Purse (Christmas shoebox folks). It was founded in 1970 by Bill Pierce. Franklin is the President, though. Controversies abound about SP, including Franklin's salary, the whole targeting of children for evangelism, etc. You can read some here (just scroll down to controversy): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaritan%27s_Purse Franklin is quite vocal about his hatred of Islam and Muslims. He believes that he and other Christians are currently in a religious war with Muslims. He's also extremely ignorant about my faith. He wanted to ban Muslims from the US long before our current President. He's also very vocal about his anti-gay stance as well. FTR, Billy was different. "Two years later, when a New York Times reporter asked him whether he shared his son's judgment on Islam, Graham answered, "Let's say, I didn't say it." Asked whether he, like Franklin, foresaw a clash between Christianity and Islam, Graham said, "I think the big conflict is with hunger and starvation and poverty."" https://www.npr.org/2018/02/21/136224476/americas-pastor-billy-graham-dies-at-99 Edited February 22, 2018 by umsami 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCB Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) These days if you disagree with someone or something you are immediately accused of hating them or it. It seems to be that way in everything now. ETA I think this is why it seems impossible to have a reasoned debate about anything anymore because as soon as you disagree you are deemed to be showing hate. I for one am sick of it. Edited February 22, 2018 by tcb 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutTN Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 "Well done, good and faithful servant." Yes, this. Faithful. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Franklin did not start Samaritan's Purse (Christmas shoebox folks). It was founded in 1970 by Bill Pierce. Franklin is the President, though. Controversies abound about SP, including Franklin's salary, the whole targeting of children for evangelism, etc. You can read some here (just scroll down to controversy): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaritan%27s_Purse Franklin is quite vocal about his hatred of Islam and Muslims. He believes that he and other Christians are currently in a religious war with Muslims. He's also extremely ignorant about my faith. He wanted to ban Muslims from the US long before our current President. He's also very vocal about his anti-gay stance as well. FTR, Billy was different. "Two years later, when a New York Times reporter asked him whether he shared his son's judgment on Islam, Graham answered, "Let's say, I didn't say it." Asked whether he, like Franklin, foresaw a clash between Christianity and Islam, Graham said, "I think the big conflict is with hunger and starvation and poverty."" https://www.npr.org/2018/02/21/136224476/americas-pastor-billy-graham-dies-at-99 Thanks for clarifying that. And yes, I agree with a lot of what you have said here. I do not agree with him on a lot of things. He has done some good, but some of his ideology and methods are not ok. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbel Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Why is this thread suddenly about Franklin Graham? FWIW,I've know a few people who had been recipients of SP Christmas boxes as kids. They did not recall being evangelized; they recalled getting gifts, perhaps the only gifts they ever got as children. Some of them were not and still are not Christian, but they have fond memories of those boxes and the people who gave them. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechWife Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Early in our marriage, we attended the same church as one of Billy Graham's children. One year, we were honored to have him speak for a few minutes at our Christmas Eve service, as he & his wife had come into town to spend the holiday with family. I will never forget that year, and those of you who know of him, know that he talked about Jesus - the Way, the Truth and the Life. Always Jesus. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarlaB Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Offensive. Harmful. Nasty. Hate Mongering. Legacy of Hatred. Ignorant. Agenda of Hate. Humble. Faithful. Good and earnest man. Quick to admit shortcomings. Always pointed to Jesus. Servant. What a contrast. I don’t know a single person who thinks Billy Graham was perfect. That’s the entire point of his message- he was (like us all) completely in need of saving, restoration, healing and the opportunity to have a personal relationship with God. I will miss his influence on the world, which I believe was much much much more positive than negative. He stood with Dr King. Refused to preach in South Africa during apartheid. Was counsel to many world leaders. He was incredibly well respected by most of the Christian faith - all denominations. And that speaks volumes. I’m so thankful for his life. I believe there are many who came to faith In God because of his work and service. 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassenach Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) It appears that most offensive thing about Billy Graham is that he is a Christian. Edited February 22, 2018 by Sassenach 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Why is this thread suddenly about Franklin Graham? FWIW,I've know a few people who had been recipients of SP Christmas boxes as kids. They did not recall being evangelized; they recalled getting gifts, perhaps the only gifts they ever got as children. Some of them were not and still are not Christian, but they have fond memories of those boxes and the people who gave them. I was wondering why he was mentioned so early in the thread. I mean, I could have understood it if people were saying they felt sorry for him because his father had died, but it was nothing like that at all. No matter what any of us may think of Franklin Graham, right now he’s just a man who is grieving the loss of his father, and I wouldn’t wish that kind of grief on anyone. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternalsummer Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) It appears that most offensive thing about Billy Graham is that he is a Christian. I will say, and I definitely don't speak for all non-Christians because I don't know many, that my impression of Billy Graham, as a person who is not and never has been religious (and certainly not Christian), and who was raised largely in the Bible Belt by parents/other relatives who identified as Democrats and in my mom's case liberals, is instinctively negative. I know nothing about him. My subconscious impressions run like this: evangelical Christian, probably corrupt, old, smarmy, ignorant leader of unenlightened people, etc. I should say that now, as an adult, I am very socially conservative and have a lot of respect for the role of religion, religious people, and religious leaders. I probably agree with Billy Graham on 95% of social issues and am to the right of him on the other 5%. I just wanted to say that I don't disagree with you that his identity as a Christian, and esp. an Evangelical Christian, may associate him with the "clinging to guns and religion" stereotype that is in some ways an undercurrent in non-religious liberal culture. Of course this is certainly not true of all non-religious people, or all liberals, or anything - not at all. But it exists; I received it as a subconscious impression from childhood/adolescence/young adulthood without knowing one single thing about Billy Graham or his life or work. I'm sure there are unspoken, un-examined assumptions and reactions that exist going the other way too, but I can't speak to them because I was not raised on that side of the fence, as it were. Edited February 22, 2018 by eternalsummer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandwalker Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 These days if you disagree with someone or something you are immediately accused of hating them or it. It seems to be that way in everything now. ETA I think this is why it seems impossible to have a reasoned debate about anything anymore because as soon as you disagree you are deemed to be showing hate. I for one am sick of it. I agree 100%. It's Us vs Them on virtually any topic brought up, it seems. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbel Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 I was wondering why he was mentioned so early in the thread. I mean, I could have understood it if people were saying they felt sorry for him because his father had died, but it was nothing like that at all. No matter what any of us may think of Franklin Graham, right now he’s just a man who is grieving the loss of his father, and I wouldn’t wish that kind of grief on anyone. My guess is that there weren't enough nasty things to say about Billy, and his son is a better target. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umsami Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 It appears that most offensive thing about Billy Graham is that he is a Christian. :001_rolleyes: No, one could go back in history and find offensive things...such as his very vocal anti-Semitic comment on the Nixon tapes...for which he apologized about 30 years later. He was not perfect, but he also never claimed to be. He seemed to take responsibility for things he said that were offensive, and tried to stay out of controversial issues to his credit. If you feel Billy is being attacked in this thread, then I think you're reading a different thread, because most of the comments have been respectful as far as I can tell. Why is this thread suddenly about Franklin Graham? FWIW,I've know a few people who had been recipients of SP Christmas boxes as kids. They did not recall being evangelized; they recalled getting gifts, perhaps the only gifts they ever got as children. Some of them were not and still are not Christian, but they have fond memories of those boxes and the people who gave them. Nearly every obit or article about Billy's death mentions his son...as his son heads up his organization and is quite different from the father. One cannot help but contrast them, especially as Franklin heads up the BGEA.... and one cannot also (quite frankly) help but worry about the effect of his son on Billy Graham's own legacy. My guess is that there weren't enough nasty things to say about Billy, and his son is a better target. :001_rolleyes: Ugh. Really? Anne Graham Lotz (whose books I read years ago and enjoyed) used to talk about her Daddy being against her preaching/teaching because she was a woman. Is that Biblical?? Yup. Is it still offensive to me as a woman.... yup. And quite frankly, unless she's changed in the past 20 years, she would do a far better job running the BGEA than her brother. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarlaB Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) :001_rolleyes: No, one could go back in history and find offensive things...such as his very vocal anti-Semitic comment on the Nixon tapes...for which he apologized about 30 years later. He was not perfect, but he also never claimed to be. He seemed to take responsibility for things he said that were offensive, and tried to stay out of controversial issues to his credit. If you feel Billy is being attacked in this thread, then I think you're reading a different thread, because most of the comments have been respectful as far as I can tell. Nearly every obit or article about Billy's death mentions his son...as his son heads up his organization and is quite different from the father. One cannot help but contrast them, especially as Franklin heads up the BGEA.... and one cannot also (quite frankly) help but worry about the effect of his son on Billy Graham's own legacy. :001_rolleyes: Ugh. Really? Anne Graham Lotz (whose books I read years ago and enjoyed) used to talk about her Daddy being against her preaching/teaching because she was a woman. Is that Biblical?? Yup. Is it still offensive to me as a woman.... yup. And quite frankly, unless she's changed in the past 20 years, she would do a far better job running the BGEA than her brother. You’re proving the point...you’re not offended by what Billy Graham said you’re offended by what the Bible says. And that’s ok. Eye rolling emojis also aren’t generally seen as respectful, FYI. So obviously our interpretations of respectful are different. I’ll leave it at that. ETA no glaases while typing on small phone Edited February 22, 2018 by LarlaB 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nixpix5 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Offensive. Harmful. Nasty. Hate Mongering. Legacy of Hatred. Ignorant. Agenda of Hate. Humble. Faithful. Good and earnest man. Quick to admit shortcomings. Always pointed to Jesus. Servant. What a contrast. I don’t know a single person who thinks Billy Graham was perfect. That’s the entire point of his message- he was (like us all) completely in need of saving, restoration, healing and the opportunity to have a personal relationship with God. I will miss his influence on the world, which I believe was much much much more positive than negative. He stood with Dr King. Refused to preach in South Africa during apartheid. Was counsel to many world leaders. He was incredibly well respected by most of the Christian faith - all denominations. And that speaks volumes. I’m so thankful for his life. I believe there are many who came to faith In God because of his work and service. Well said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umsami Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 You’re proving the point...you’re not offended by what Billy Graham said you’re offended by what the Bible says. And that’s ok. Eye rolling emojis also aren’t generally seen as respectful, FYI. So obviously our interpretations of respectful are different. I’ll leave it at that. ETA no glaases while typing on small phone So you believe that the Bible preaches anti-Semitism? I find that hard to believe as Jesus was Jewish. Or you agree that women should remain silent. Do you cover your head or do you feel I look like a terrorist for covering mine and following the example of nearly every Biblical woman? Do you eat pork or do you believe that a dream made everything OK? Do you believe that a rape victim should have to marry her rapist? Do you believe in stoning adulterers?? All Biblical. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-rap Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 My guess is that there weren't enough nasty things to say about Billy, and his son is a better target. No -- for me anyway, it's not that at all. I have a lot of respect for Billy Graham. As others said, he had flaws, and his were probably more noticeable because he was a high profile figure. But, he accomplished a lot of good, and his heart really seemed to be oriented toward Jesus. He had humility. And as I mentioned before, he seemed to have the respect from presidents from both parties, which says a lot. His son, unfortunately, is very different. He is conniving and extremely political and vocal about it, and the good he is accomplishing is overshadowed by a lot of bad stuff. He has hurt the Christian faith in America tremendously. And because of all of that, a lot of people naturally think of him now when they hear anything about his father. It is a sad connection to make, but there you go. I won't go into anymore details about him, but wanted to briefly respond to your comment. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8circles Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 You’re proving the point...you’re not offended by what Billy Graham said you’re offended by what the Bible says. And that’s ok. Eye rolling emojis also aren’t generally seen as respectful, FYI. So obviously our interpretations of respectful are different. I’ll leave it at that. ETA no glaases while typing on small phone I agree with her and I'm Xian. I'm not offended by what the Bible says, but I clearly don't think it says the same thing you do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8circles Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 I have good memories of BG, watching him on TV as a kid. Just as I am is very comforting to me because of that. I think he did a lot of good and he tried to do his part in God's Will. He was sometimes wrong, very wrong. He acknowledged a lot of those wrongs and I give him credit for that. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarlaB Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 :001_rolleyes: :001_rolleyes: Ugh. Really? Anne Graham Lotz (whose books I read years ago and enjoyed) used to talk about her Daddy being against her preaching/teaching because she was a woman. Is that Biblical?? Yup. Is it still offensive to me as a woman.... yup. And quite frankly, unless she's changed in the past 20 years, she would do a far better job running the BGEA than her brother. umsami..... I was just literally responding to what you wrote. Maybe I misunderstood? I'm not commentating on whether I think its Biblical or not. You said you thought it was Biblical. And that it was offensive to you. That's all I was trying to highlight. To me it sounded like you are offended by the Bible, not necessarily by Billy Graham. Maybe I misunderstood? I completely expect the Bible and therefore its teachers to sometimes offend those who don't follow Christ. I hope that doesn't sound weird or offensive. Its not meant that way- at all. I'm really not looking for a debate on his theology. Or anyones theology. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarlaB Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 I agree with her and I'm Xian. I'm not offended by what the Bible says, but I clearly don't think it says the same thing you do. I think you misunderstood my post. I was not commentating on or interpreting anything. Neither the Bible or Billy Grahams teachings. Or my own personal beliefs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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