overwhelmed with the thought of algebra

[lgliser]

I started researching algebra options a while back and for some reason ended up settling on thinking we'd either use video text or chalk dust. I was mostly researching things that could be done without my help for the most part. After watching the dvd that Video Text sent us, it looks like they expect parent interaction. Is that right? I just don't feel that I would be good at that. DH would, but he just doesn't always have time.

 

Right now I have three 11 year olds. One is working on CLE 6th grade math, the others are doing CLE 5th grade math.

 

The girls, doing 5th grade, will do 6th grade next year, so I'm thinking more for my son right now. First trying to decide if I should have him continue with CLE next year (I'd condense 700/800 for him, as he is good at math and catches on quickly). Or deciding if I should just jump into another algebra program for him next year.

 

It's less overwhelming to just think that maybe I'll just continue on with CLE through algebra. Pros of this would be that people seem to like their algebra and we like CLE. It's also not that expensive. The cons of this would be that we'd still need to find another math program for algebra 2, geometry, etc. And the ones that would be hands off for me are pricey, so another year or two of lower prices is tempting.

 

So, I was really convinced that I needed something either video or online based so that I didn't have to be involved. I'm just not good at math. But they're so pricey! I'm wondering if we could just use something like Kahn to help when the kids come across problems?

 

Ok and I'm not sure why I settled on VT or CD. People seem to like Derek Owens a lot too. What else is there? And what are the good programs that aren't video or online based? Hellllllllp!

[EKS]

If you don't want to be involved, I highly recommend Derek Owens, as he does all the grading.  If you don't know what your child is learning in math, it will be impossible for you to evaluate his work properly.

 

I highly recommend Derek Owens anyway--his math courses are excellent.

[Free Indeed]

Well, I’ve heard Saxon and CLE are similar. Saxon has the Dive CD or Saxon Teacher cd, or Art Reed- all of which teach the lesson. They have been done at my house mostly independently.

[prairiewindmomma]

A few thoughts:

1. Derek Owens is very good BUT it's $540(?) a year, and x3 students, that would add up quickly. 

2. Khan Academy has not been enough for my kids.

3. For my math-inclined child, Chalkdust generic (look up the thread here) has been a really good fit.

4. For my not-math inclined child, I will use Math-U-See.  I put myself through the geometry, and I have the Algebra 2, and it's enough.  I started homeschooling with a personal math level of about pre-algebra, in all honesty.  It is my weak spot.  Math-U-See is good---probably not what I would call rigorous---but solid math.  If you bought the digital version of the textbook and printed off pdfs, it is pretty affordable.

[Tess in the Burbs]

If you have multiple kids it's worth learning it alongside them.  I had forgotten all my algebra knowledge so when DS did Algebra I got a video program with email support(askdrcallahan.com) and found that with videos questions came up that he couldn't wait on an email reply.   We have used DO in the past and found the same situation.  Email reply is often multiple days later.  

Instead I looked at the answer, figured out how they got there and then taught my son.  I did the same thing through geometry (and this time the kids chose different programs and how it was taught but I learned both ways!)  And now in Algebra 2 we started with a live class but my kids didn't like it.  We are back to video based program and have had to wait for email answers, which means I'm looking at it, trying to work backward to find the answer.  Today I was helping and looked for a practice problem that was the same kind of problem as the one they needed help with, and I just played with it until I could show them how to do it.   I don't think math can ever be completely hands off unless you are willing to wait days for answers.  I think it's worth learning alongside them.  it shows them learning never ends.  I try very hard to help them through a problem before we go to the email option.  It's our last resort.  We find youtube videos or Khan videos to help us figure things out before emailing.  

If you do DO just pay for the self grading option.  It's cheaper.  You grade.  You have all the answers and now you can work backward to help them work through problems.  And you will be so proud of yourself for learning it!!!  You can still email for help.   

[lmrich]

I hate to tell you this... you might as well learn it alongside your kiddos. You can do it. You are smarter than you think you are. (I tell my dd to watch carefully because I am going to make an error, and she has to catch it! Truth is I just make all kind of errors while doing math, but it keeps her watching.) 

Truthfully, I think it is good that you are going to show your child that learning never stops. That some subjects are hard, but they are worth doing. 

 

[J-rap]

If it makes you feel any better, I didn't remember a lick of Algebra.  In fact, it makes me wonder what I really learned about it in the first place.  I got VT Algebra too, and did every lesson and every quiz the day before my kids did it.  I actually loved Algebra this time around!  And because I was always one tiny step ahead of my kids, I could help them.  (And my dh was always on stand-by to help them too.)  My kids who used VT ended up having a really solid understanding of Algebra.

 

At some point I switched to Teaching Textbooks (for next child), because we were going through some family events and I knew I wouldn't have the same time to put into it.  My dd pretty much did it completely on her own, with the CD's.  Of course I had been through VT by then so I could assist her when she was stuck, which did happen, especially as it got harder.  I'd say TT was more user friendly, and it enabled my dd to use it more independently.  But, I think VT was more challenging in a good way.  It stuck with those kids better.

Edited February 21, 2018 by J-rap

[Peaceseeker]

I thought I wanted to be hands off for higher math but somehow it has ended up where I still get to be the teacher. Because even after watching videos, etc, my kid just still needs me to walk through it again. I feel like I am paying so much for outsourcing a class that doesn't really end up being outsourced.

 

At any rate, my prealgebra sills are rock solid now, lol. I have reviewed all of basic math thoroughly and I went ahead and bought the algebra textbook and started working ahead on my own. I never had a problem with math in school but I am rusty. I think I will just teach Algebra next year and save my $500-$600. I really wanted something outsourced, but if I have to teach it again anyway it is pointless. Apparently my kid doesn't learn math well via video instruction.

 

I have seen a lot of homeschoolers 'let go' of the reins when it comes to higher math and the results are not always great. I can already tell with my kid I can't let go. We are doing this together and math is the homeschool hill I am willing to die on. I know a lot of people are a bit math phobic but I agree with others that facing that fear of higher math and learning is a great thing to demonstrate to your kids.

 

With all that being said, I am really enjoying the Lial's series. All the teaching is in the text and the answers to odd problems in the back. I decided a while back if I have to teach the math we were going to use a program I understand and is geared to me and my learning style. My math style is definitely old school textbook, straight forward stuff with teaching in the text. I love Lial's.

Edited February 21, 2018 by CaliforniaDreaming

[longwayhome]

We are using CLE 6 this year with my 11 yo dd. Since its's working well and my daughter likes it, we will use 700 and hopefully most of 800 next year for 7th. I plan to continue with CLE Algebra in 8th as this point. It's affordable, so even though I will have to change to a different curriculum in the future, I can save my money for something pricier then. I don't want to change something that is working well until I have a reason.

[MerryAtHope]

I too think it's worth learning alongside your kids. It's hard for me to imagine an upper level math course that didn't require at least *some* parental involvement unless you are using an outside tutor. You want more than just the answer, and sometimes that *more* comes from being able to work out the problem the way the student did it so you can help them understand where they went wrong.

 

I really liked Math-U-See because it did the teaching for me and the answer keys had the problems fully worked. Sometimes my kids worked the problem differently and that worked--and then I could show them, "here's another way to work it" to expand their learning. Sometimes it simply helped me understand their mistake, or why their way either didn't or couldn't work. I don't know that it's as rigorous as some programs, but it's solid math as another said. 

 

VT is an excellent program though (it's one I considered, but I thought it moved too quickly for what my oldest needed at the time, and then MUS just worked for us). I wouldn't let the thought that you need to partner with your student in this subject be the deciding factor, since you'll probably have some math involvement no matter what you use. The videos still do the teaching for you though and will walk you through what to do. 

[Momto6inIN]

I hated math when I went through it, but when I watched VT with my kids for the first time I remember thinking I would have liked math if I'd been taught this way. I never actually did any of the problems myself, but just watching them alongside my kids (15-20 minutes tops) made me able to help them when they got stuck. VT was worth it for us because we bought the print version and it will be used by all the kids. So far it has worked for my extremely mathy oldest as well as my math phobic younger two, so it has been a good fit for various abilities in our house. Can't recommend it enough!

 

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[Farrar]

I thought I didn't remember algebra, so I got myself a textbook and started doing it and... nah, I remembered a lot more than I realized. I'm still going to bow out at Algebra II, but I agree with the above - you have multiple kids and you may as well not avoid it. Just go in headfirst.

 

Other people outlined the options reasonably well, but also, I think it's worth pointing out that while there are nearly always free and inexpensive options all the way through schooling, the best options get more expensive beginning in middle school and it only continues in high school. So, if you had sticker shock looking at Derek Owens, just brace yourself.

[OneStepAtATime]

FWIW, I have taken Algebra 1 three times in my life.  High School, college and then when I was pregnant with DD.  I did not retain it.  Some things I can figure out with a TON of time and patience but my kids, both of them, once they hit math at about 5th grade level, have needed questions answered that I just don't have the answers to and cannot seem to figure out.  I will not be just learning alongside them as I teach the math.  I have tried.  They need more than that.  There is nothing wrong with realizing that you need to seek outside sources to help your kids. 

 

That being said, I don't think it is going to work to just step away from most math interaction in the higher levels.  Your child is going to need someone they can ask questions of and bounce ideas off of and seek guidance from.  And even if you find an on-line provider or a local tutor you may regret not being directly involved in some capacity.  

 

I hired a math tutor last fall not to take over completely but to work with my kids twice a week so they have someone who actually understands math that can answer their questions and get them over humps.  I needed that back up and the kids needed the reassurance that someone who knows what they are doing could help them out.  It can be terribly frustrating for a student when their instructor is baffled and working like crazy to try and help them over a hump and failing miserably.  Hiring the tutor has worked well for DS.  He and I work through material together and when we hit snags we try to work out the snags together but when we hit walls we know the tutor is there to help.  DS comes home from the sessions with the tutor and is then frequently able to help me learn, too.  Teaching me helps him solidify his own learning.  I am lagging behind him, though.  He just gets math much more effectively than I do. 

 

Hiring a tutor has not worked well for DD.  She has dyscalculia.  The tutor is not willing to go at her pace or bring in manipulatives and outside the box options to help her even though he is very capable of doing so (I have seen him do so with great success).  Since he is unwilling to do what she needs, I pulled her out.  Therefore DD and I are muddling through on our own again.  Thankfully I have stayed involved so I know where she is at, where things started to derail and we are still able to make progress.  I will almost certainly try again for a math tutor.  I just need a more outside the box thinker for DD.  

 

My point with this is that if CLE is working I would stick with it for now but if you really need math off your plate I sympathize and understand.  I would still, if I were you, look for ways to get outside help without also thinking of this as something your child can do independently.  I would find ways to stay involved.

 

 

[lgliser]

I get what you're saying, guys. I should clarify though - DH doesn't have time to actually teach them, but he would have plenty of time to answer any questions they may have and have conversations with them, like in the evenings. He wouldn't be sitting with them during a Video Text lesson, pausing, and discussion, but he would be there later if they have questions. So I do feel like I could be fairly hands off. On the other hand, there have been lots of things that I have truly enjoyed "relearning" as I teach them. Maybe algebra would be one of those things! 

 

 

 

Other people outlined the options reasonably well, but also, I think it's worth pointing out that while there are nearly always free and inexpensive options all the way through schooling, the best options get more expensive beginning in middle school and it only continues in high school. So, if you had sticker shock looking at Derek Owens, just brace yourself.

What kind of free/inexpensive options? And also, what are you thinking of that is so much more that DO? I can't imagine... lol

[Farrar]

What kind of free/inexpensive options? And also, what are you thinking of that is so much more that DO? I can't imagine... lol

 

I just mean that there are always cheaper ways to do any subject. I mean, for algebra, if you want to be really low cost, then a vintage text is an option, there are still online texts that are free (especially some international ones like MEP), there are things like Khan that are free, free video series for algebra I on Youtube... And the same is true for nearly every subject.

 

But at the other end, DO is under $600 for the year and less for a fast worker - that's not cheap. But there are WTMA classes that are more like $600 to $900. A lot of the PA Homeschoolers AP classes are more like $800. Blue Tent is all over $600. There are other online options that also get close to $1000. And a lot of us have to pay over $1000 for DE credits. You don't have to do any of these things, of course.

[lgliser]

I also just remembered that you can do e-courses through our public high school and algebra is one of the courses. Would that be a good option? 

[zibby3]

I also just remembered that you can do e-courses through our public high school and algebra is one of the courses. Would that be a good option?

E-courses through the public high scbool could work. It just depends how they are done and if you think that would match well with your kids. I would definitely look into it!

 

I was going to say that Teaching Textbooks has worked out well for us for Pre-alg (and 6/7). Just make sure you get the 2.0 or the new online streaming version (prob. officially coming out next month).

 

The big positives for me and our situation:

 

- They rarely need my help

- Immediate feedback for each problem (This is huge for my not so mathy girl)

- The computer grades it and keeps a gradebook.

-price is not crazy

 

I think the new online version will be $60 for the year per kid. If you don't mind working with CDs, you can get them used and use them for all 3 kids.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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