when to hold a student back

[lovinmyboys]

My ds9 turns 10 in April, so should be a fourth grader. He is working at an average 3rd grade level (finishing up dancing bears fast track a/b, Singapore math 3, wwe 2, hwt 3rd grade cursive). He reads at about a boxcar children level. He has read Stone Fox, Bears on Hemlock Mountain, Courage of Sarah Noble, and several A to Z mysteries this year. He fits in much better socially as a third grader too.

 

Here is my question. Even if he is quite behind as a 4th grader, I still think he has time to catch up before high school without me calling him 3rd grade. If he does Singapore math a year behind, he will still be doing pre algerbra in 8th, right? And if he does WWE 3 in fifth, he could still do WWS 1 in 6th. So, should I continue to keep him in his grade for age and decide later if he needs to be held back, or is it better to just hold him back now?

[Jean in Newcastle]

Teach him at his level.  Don't think about what "grade" he is.  I think that grade levels are a bit irrelevant within homeschooling.  Or do you not homeschool?  I'm a bit confused at the "should I keep him in his grade for age" questions.  Kids do not progress at all the same rate in all subjects in all years, in my experience. 

[Tsuga]

Agree with Jean. Grade levels nowadays are used primarily to socially group kids. If your child is behind for 4th grade, he's in fourth grade but doing some subjects behind grade level. That's how they'd express it at school. If you gave grades--which doesn't make sense since you are the teacher--you would just put "2" instead of "3". 2 is approaching, 3 is at, 4 is ahead. But again, the purpose of primary school "grades" is to communicate to parents where students need more support or whether they need acceleration. So none of this really applies to your son's situation.

 

I would continue tracking his progress in key areas where he's a year or more behind and get help as needed, but not give grades or adjust his "official" grade level.

 

ETA: To reiterate if anyone says "that's third grade level", you can reply, "yes, in fourth grade you continue to work on all the skills you need to hit fourth grade level so he would get marks below average on this, but he's still progressing towards mastery of fourth grade skills." That is the public school standard. You don't get held back. You get an IEP and/or special services.

Edited February 19, 2018 by Tsuga

[katilac]

How's he doing in Singapore 3? Because that certainly beats out many 4th-grade math programs, yeah? So if he's doing pretty well, I'd not consider him behind in math at all. Some people go straight from Singapore 6 to algebra. Not us, lol, but some people. 

 

Agree that I would just keep on keeping on. If you aren't already doing so, I'd add in some more challenging literature as read alouds or audio books in the car.  No need for matching assignments, just give him that exposure to beautiful, challenging language. Sarah Noble and Hemlock Mountain are both at or above 4th-grade reading level, so he's fine there, but shared reading above level exposes them to so much and is great preparation. 

[lovinmyboys]

Sorry my op wasn’t very clear. I am homeschooling. I am not actually giving him a “grade,†but he isn’t working on a 4th grade level. I guess I am just thinking ahead to high school-maybe I am getting ahead of myself. Compared to his peers in 4th grade, he is behind right now. I guess I am trying to figure out if he still has time to catch up before high school, or if I should put him in 3rd grade now since that is the level where he is working.

Edited February 19, 2018 by lovinmyboys

[Lori D.]

My ds9 turns 10 in April, so should be a fourth grader. He is working at an average 3rd grade level... He fits in much better socially as a third grader too...

 

...So, should I continue to keep him in his grade for age and decide later if he needs to be held back, or is it better to just hold him back now?

 

:grouphug:  Agreeing with previous posters: work at his academic level, and don't worry about labeling with a grade level, unless you "need" to.

 

The 9yo-turning-10yo who is working at grade 3-4 levels today, will be in a very different place in 4.5 years when it's time for high school. LOTS of maturing will happen, so I wouldn't worry about making that decision right now. See where he is maturity-wise and academic-wise in 8th grade, and decide at that point if a "bonus year" of middle school would work well -- and even then, he could still put on a spurt and graduate in 3 years.

 

All that to say, no need to bounce the poor guy down and up through the grade levels. ;)

 

Unless you live in a state that requires homeschoolers to declare a grade level, the only times declaring a grade level really matters is:

1.) if DS ends up enrolling in a brick and mortar school, and

2.) declaring 11th grade for PSAT test/possible scholarship purposes.

 

 

... If he does Singapore math a year behind, he will still be doing pre algerbra in 8th, right? And if he does WWE 3 in fifth, he could still do WWS 1 in 6th. So, should I continue to keep him in his grade for age and decide later if he needs to be held back, or is it better to just hold him back now?

 

First, it is VERY standard for students to do Pre-Algebra in 8th grade and Algebra 1 in 9th grade. Maturity of the abstract thinking portions of the brain don't even start to mature until between grades 12-14, and since Algebra is a very abstract math, you don't want to try and push ahead with it until you have the student's brain able to have a fighting chance at "getting it". (Note for looking ahead to high school: doing Algebra 1 in 9th grade STILL puts a student on schedule for completing Geometry, Alg. 2, and Pre-Calc. by 12th grade, which is PLENTY of prep for SAT/ACT testing and more than adequately meets college admission requirements. :) )

 

Second, Singapore Math is often considered to be up to a full grade ahead of U.S. math, so a 4th grade student doing Singapore 3A/B is fine and "on track" for math. At that speed, the student would complete Singapore 6A/B in grade in 7th grade, and do pre-Alegebra in 8th grade, which is very fine and average.

 

Third, many families find that Singapore 6A/B is plenty of prep and end up jumping straight to Algebra 1 without needing a Pre-Algebra, so you may be looking at Algebra 1 in 7th grade anyways, if your student is ready for it.

 

As far as writing -- students vary SO widely as to when that "clicks" for them. I teach Lit. & Comp. to gr. 7-12 students, and ALL the time, I see 9th-10th graders (without LDs) who are JUST starting to "get" how to write. They are just on a later time-table for blooming. I would NOT let the level listed on the writing program dictate when to use it. There are a LOT of students who are not ready for WWS1 until 8th or even 9th grade, so don't sweat it. :) Go at the pace that fits YOUR student.

 

Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited February 19, 2018 by Lori D.

[Crimson Wife]

My oldest hit a wall in 6th right at the height of puberty and I decided to repeat 6th to take the pressure off. But then when she came out the other side she ended up skipping 8th. In retrospect, I should've just kept her in the original grade but it was NOT AT ALL clear at the time she'd be ready for high school on time.

 

My 2nd did 2 years of K for attention and fine motor skills reasons. I don't foresee us undoing that.

 

My disabled child is repeating 2nd after the results of a bone scan showed her physiological age is 15 months younger than her chronological age. She's behind even for 2nd grade in many subjects but her math is actually within the normal range for her adjusted age.

[Ellie]

Sorry my op wasn’t very clear. I am homeschooling. I am not actually giving him a “grade,†but he isn’t working on a 4th grade level. I guess I am just thinking ahead to high school-maybe I am getting ahead of myself. Compared to his peers in 4th grade, he is behind right now. I guess I am trying to figure out if he still has time to catch up before high school, or if I should put him in 3rd grade now since that is the level where he is working.

 

Most children are working at different levels in different subjects. And it can change from year to year.

 

I don't believe in holding homeschooled children back on paper. The grade level label is just a way of grouping children of approximate age when they're in group situations. So of course your son would be "in" third grade now, and fourth grade in the fall, and fifth grade the fall after that.

 

Of course he has time to catch up. He's not even 10 years old yet.

[maize]

One option would be to use calendar years for grade promotions. Consider him 4th grade now, but he won't be 5th grade until next January.

 

And keep working with him where he is at.

 

Gives you a bit of flexibility to jump either way should you decide a grade adjustment is in order later as he would actually be between grades.

 

I've placed my own June-August birthday boys in the lower grade level, but with an eye to future acceleration should that seem best. My youngest is a May birthday, don't know yet how I'll place him.

 

My girls' birthdays are fall/winter so they tend older for their grade levels anyway going by local cut offs.

[lovinmyboys]

One option would be to use calendar years for grade promotions. Consider him 4th grade now, but he won't be 5th grade until next January.

 

And keep working with him where he is at.

 

Gives you a bit of flexibility to jump either way should you decide a grade adjustment is in order later as he would actually be between grades.

 

I've placed my own June-August birthday boys in the lower grade level, but with an eye to future acceleration should that seem best. My youngest is a May birthday, don't know yet how I'll place him.

 

My girls' birthdays are fall/winter so they tend older for their grade levels anyway going by local cut offs.

I have thought of doing this. I think he would be fine as a 4th grader if he was an older 4th grader. If he had a September birthday and spent most of his 4th grade year as a 10 year old. I have thought about starting 4th grade in January, so he is 10 for most of the year.

 

April is kind of a hard birthday because he is really too old to be held back, but with all the red shirting of boys, he ends up being one of the younger ones in his grade. My other kids have spring birthdays and they are fine being on the younger side. He has just been a little slower to develop.

[Lori D.]

...April is kind of a hard birthday because he is really too old to be held back, but with all the red shirting of boys, he ends up being one of the younger ones in his grade. My other kids have spring birthdays and they are fine being on the younger side. He has just been a little slower to develop.

 

Meh. Don't let what "everyone else does" force you into a decision; do what you know is best for THIS child. :)

 

And yes, speaking from experience here. ;) DS#1 had an April b-day, and we were asked by the school to bump him back from kindergarten to pre-school due to him being VERY delayed in physical and emotional development. It was the best decision ever, as it placed him with his actual peers, even though he was almost a year older than most of them.

 

Personally, I don't buy in to the "must be x age to be in y grade" thing. I've seen a LOT of homeschool students (mostly boys, but a few girls, too), held back -- NOT for "red shirting" purposes (in order to have an athletic or academic edge) -- but because it was the best choice for the student due to LDs or on delayed physical/emotional development time table. That meant graduating at 19yo, due to having b-days before graduation. Several had April b-days, one had a March b-day, and I know two boys who had July/August b-days, so they turned 19yo BEFORE 12th grade... NOT a problem for any of these students.

 

Again, I personally don't think you need to stick ANY grade level on DS, but just move forward at his pace. We almost never needed a grade level until high school, and honestly, most of the time throughout elementary/middle school, neither of our DSs cared enough to know what "grade" they were, and had to ask me -- I could have said anything.  :laugh:

 

BEST of luck, whatever you decide, and once you decide, just move on and enjoy your journey! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited February 20, 2018 by Lori D.

[BlsdMama]

After two boys hitting teen years and three girls? I’d make that choice at the tail end of eighth grade year and definitely not before.

[sweet2ndchance]

I agree with the others, academic development is rarely linear. Just because he is "behind" now doesn't mean he won't make a huge leap in the next 4 - 5 years. He is learning at his pace and has a teacher who cares enough to make sure he masters the material, not just able to regurgitate the information on the test. Unless you have to test for your state homeschool laws and those test scores could affect you ability to keep homeschooling, I wouldn't worry at all about what grade your child is in and where he is ability wise in comparison with his age mates. 

[maize]

Thing is, it is usually easier from an emotional acceptance point of view to place a kid in the lower grade level when he is younger then skip him ahead later if that seems best than to tell a 13 or 14 year old they need to be at the same grade level two years in a row.

 

In general where there is doubt I lean towards lower grade placement in elementary.

 

Of course you work where they are at but even homeschooled teens tend to care somewhat about official grade.

Edited February 20, 2018 by maize

[Rachel]

If it makes you feel any better my 10 year old boy is also doing wwe2. His work is solidly 4th grade, except penmanship, his penmanship is awful.

 

We know several 4th grade boys who are 9 and 10 that are homeschoolers, they are all at very different places academically. I’m not sure what I would do in your position, but I’d be inclined to wait before holding him back.

[Vernal]

I needed to hear these words of encouragement for my own DS9 today. Thanks.

 

OP just keep on keepin’ on.

[Farrar]

Thing is, it is usually easier from an emotional acceptance point of view to place a kid in the lower grade level when he is younger then skip him ahead later if that seems best than to tell a 13 or 14 year old they need to be at the same grade level two years in a row.

 

In general where there is doubt I lean towards lower grade placement in elementary.

 

Of course you work where they are at but even homeschooled teens tend to care somewhat about official grade.

 

Is there any research to back this up? I could believe it, but I have to say - for my ds, later would be better. As an 9 yo, it would have completely crushed his self-esteem and made him miserable. As a 13 yo, he's so much more mature - he'd be able to self-reflect and accept it so much better.

 

I would wait to do it. Do it before high school and make a "gap year" in there if it's super clear that he can't do high school work.

[maize]

Is there any research to back this up? I could believe it, but I have to say - for my ds, later would be better. As an 9 yo, it would have completely crushed his self-esteem and made him miserable. As a 13 yo, he's so much more mature - he'd be able to self-reflect and accept it so much better.

 

I would wait to do it. Do it before high school and make a "gap year" in there if it's super clear that he can't do high school work.

I know there is research that having kids start kindergarten late works out better than having them repeat a grade.

 

You're right though that a 9 year old could care--might depend on how aware he is of grade level right now. From the OP it sounded like maybe the family hasn't made much mention of grade levels yet but I don't really know.

 

I'm not sure my 10 year old knows her grade level.

 

I did re-designate grade level for one of mine at about that age; she had two third grade years. We had moved a couple of years before and I framed it as bringing us in line with the new state's grade cut offs (her birthday fell between New state and old state cut off dates).

 

If OP wanted to move to calendar year grades I think she could do that with a child who was aware of grade level--it would just be extending his current grade a bit longer.

[Farrar]

I know there is research that having kids start kindergarten late works out better than having them repeat a grade.

 

You're right though that a 9 year old could care--might depend on how aware he is of grade level right now. From the OP it sounded like maybe the family hasn't made much mention of grade levels yet but I don't really know.

 

I'm not sure my 10 year old knows her grade level.

 

I did re-designate grade level for one of mine at about that age; she had two third grade years. We had moved a couple of years before and I framed it as bringing us in line with the new state's grade cut offs (her birthday fell between New state and old state cut off dates).

 

If OP wanted to move to calendar year grades I think she could do that with a child who was aware of grade level--it would just be extending his current grade a bit longer.

 

Yeah, I think that's all true. I have read - in addition to the positive redshirting data though, that back when they used to make kids repeat kindergarten, that it had a negative overall impact, which seems to suggest to me that once kids know their grade, it's upsetting to be held back at any age.

[KrissiK]

I think it also depends on whether you plan on homeschooling him all the way through or is there a possibility of putting him in B&M school. In our church/social group/homeschool group, kids are generally homeschooled through 8th grade and then go to the local CHristian School for high school. That was my plan, but DS2 really really struggles. He should start high school next year, but he's only in 5th grade math and he struggles in other areas. Needless to say, I'm homeschooling him through high school. However, I really wish I would have not started him when I did, or I should have kept him back socially a year when he was little. Now, it's way too late. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Even high school kids can be taught at their level. Many kids, especially if they don’t have LDs will learn in bursts. Your child might surprise you in a year or two. But even if he doesn’t surge ahead that’s ok. Other than the doctor and a few neighbors no one asked what grade my kids were. It just wasn’t relative. In fact, I had to remind my kids what grade they were so that they knew how to answer. If you don’t make a big deal over grade level there won’t be a problem.

 

(Ds took five years for high school and is doing fine in college and has just earned a big scholarship for next year. Dd was a grade ahead, then a year behind, then two years behind due to undiagnosed celiac, then right on schedule. No trauma. )

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SKL]

Short answer:  yes, he has time.  A lot can change in a few years.  And I agree that the grade levels on Singapore math are a little more ambitious than what public schools do.

 

To me, the social aspect is more important than the academic aspect at this point.  But since he is homeschooled, is that likely to be a problem?  Does being in 4th grade extracurriculars etc. pose significant problems for him?

Edited February 20, 2018 by SKL

[lovinmyboys]

Ok, I have taken a step back and tried to think this through. He is not nearly as mature as I remember my older son and his friends being at this age, but he actually has been doing fine socially with other 4th graders. They don’t seem to be as mature as I remembered them the first time around 😆.

 

He is actually doing ok in academics when I remember that not everyone can be “above average.†Sometimes, I think certain groups skew toward higher performers and those groups affect my perception. His spelling is way, way behind. He probably has an actual learning disability with that. (He recently has spelled why “wi†and luck “lukcâ€). That stresses me out with extracurriculars because at this age they are expected to be able to write. But, in general, I think he is making progress and even catching up in most subjects.

 

He has always hit his milestones on the late side. In general he is a little immature and he does struggle a little with learning. I feel like if he were in 3rd grade, he would be a solid student instead of a struggling student. But, since we homeschool, it doesn’t really matter. I’ll probably just wait until high school to make a decision.

[EKS]

I guess I am just thinking ahead to high school-maybe I am getting ahead of myself. 

 

There is no reason to hold a student "back" when you're homeschooling.  If you decide at some point no longer to homeschool, then you can determine what grade he should be in.  Otherwise, you can decide at the end, as in "Should he graduate this year or next year?"

Edited February 21, 2018 by EKS

[Storygirl]

I did do a grade adjustment for my oldest, but it was because I started her on K when she was four. She was ready to learn to read, so I thought, why not? A couple of years later, we decided to do 18 months of "first grade" and 18 months of "2nd grade" to re-position her. It was a good decision for her.

 

For a variety of reasons, I didn't call my other kids kindergarteners until they were six. It was a good decision for them.

 

So I'm not against grade adjusting, and I'm not against having a child who is old for their grade.

 

With that said, it seems to me that the real root of his delays is that your son struggles due to a possible undiagnosed learning disability. And the way to address that is not to change the grade, but to use materials and teaching methods that are meant for remediation and to get some evaluations, so that you can know better how to help. With dyslexia, early remediation is more effective than waiting until older, and an Orton-Gillingham method (or one of a couple of other similar programs) of instruction is highly recommended.

 

DD12 has dyslexia, and DS13 has other learning disabilities. Both of them are "old" for their grades. Both of them still struggle in their disability areas. Although they receive very good intervention, things are just harder.

 

In other words, for a student with learning challenges, lowering their grade level does not then make them able to learn at the same pace as their younger peers. So my advice is to not change the grade level at this point. But consider changing teaching methods and using different curricula and working toward some evaluations.

 

We used Dancing Bears with DD (as well as several other programs, as I tried to find something that would work for her), and although it is recommended by some as a program for those with dyslexia, we found it insufficient. It does provide practice breaking down words and sounding them out, but it does not have as its purpose remediating the phonological impairment of dyslexia, as an OG approach does.

 

I would also caution you about looking too far ahead with regard to what curricula he may use in a few years. WWS would not be the program I would use with DD12 with dyslexia (I did do some of it with DD16 when she was in sixth, so I am familiar with it). You may need to consider other writing programs if you are dealing with dyslexia.

 

I hope that is helpful.

Edited February 21, 2018 by Storygirl

[kiana]

Another thing to consider is that by the time they're 18, a lot of teenagers are ready to just be done, whether or not it's a true college prep curriculum. I know he's young now, but by the time he's a senior he'll probably be able to grow a mustache if he wants. Anyway, my point is that if it's set up so that he can graduate at 18, it may turn out to be a really good thing if he strongly wants to not continue. Trying to get a 19 year old to buy into still being in high school is sometimes challenging. 

 

What I'd try to do (assuming he's still not quite on level by high school) is set up his 9th grade year so that it could easily either be 9th grade or a strong 8th. For example, english (on his level, wherever that is), algebra 1 (assuming he'll be there from where he is in math now), physical science (again, on his level, wherever that is), world geography or similar class that's a standard "core" class, but not something that's often required like US history. Again, that's just an example, many variations exist. Then when he's approaching the end, you/he can decide which grade placement would be better, based on his goals.

[Starrinytes]

My daughter (9- will be 10 in March) is working at a pretty solid 3rd grade level for language arts and math. She has been in language therapy and occupational therapy since she was 6, and she has come a LONG way. Right now, we have no reason to "hold her back", even though she's in 4th grade doing 3rd grade work in those subjects. I am pretty confident that by the time she gets to high school, she will be exactly where she "needs" to be. If not, we will reevaluate at that point. 

 

There is SO much that will happen between now and high school. SO.MUCH. Literally even in the past 2 months for my daughter she has made HUGE leaps in the quality of her comprehension and work in general. Almost night and day difference.

 

I haven't read through all the posts, but is there any reason to believe that your son has any special learning needs? If so, an evaluation is extremely helpful (we have had many over the years, BUT we knew our daughter had special learning needs from the time she was a toddler- literally no one else even knows except for us- she gets along socially with kids and adults of all ages, and even when participating in outsourced classes tries her hardest & just has a positive attitude in general). Also, it would help a ton when considering what curriculum etc to use. My daughter just cannot comprehend and be happy using what many here use (and what my younger daughter is able to use). It just won't work for her and everyone is miserable. Once I found what clicked for her, she has absolutely been soaring and just doing so amazing that some days I just cannot believe how far she has come- SO proud of her <3

 

Anyways, all that to say that I wouldn't worry about high school at all at this point with your son. I personally wouldn't adjust his grade level either- jmo. Good luck!