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My 18 year old son is graduating in May and starting college in the fall.  His dad, my XH wants to take him a trip for graduation.  He will take him anywhere.  Tropical, Europe, cruise, Alaska, a train ride from Seattle to SF, a trip to the Grand Canyon.  My son just does. not. want. to go.  No vacation sounds fun to him and less so with his dad.  He has tried to tell his dad he doesn't want to go, but his dad doesn't want to take no for an answer--according to ds.

 

XH is asking for my help on finding something ds would enjoy, but honestly when I talk to ds he is in near tears because he just doesn't want to.  

 

Would you try to talk your son into this?  Or would you help him tell his dad he really doesn't want to go? Or stay out of it completely?  I have tried to stay out of it, but XH keeps going headlong into planning and booking and it is making my son just physically ill.

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No, I wouldn't try to talk the ds into going when he obviously doesn't want to go.  I would step in with the xh and take ds out of the picture entirely since ds has already tried talking to his father and the father seems not to be listening. 

 

:iagree:

 

I have one ds who hates to travel.  I don't know if the issue is the traveling or the xh but he shouldn't feel pressured to go if he really doesn't want to.

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No, don't force him to go. There is a possibility he may have a good time once he gets somewhere but there is also the possibility he'll be miserable.

 

Is he going away to college? If he is, I'd tell XH that if he wants to spend money as a gift, he can pay the expenses involved for all the stuff you need for the dorm including new clothes or luggage.

 

I wouldn't hesitate talking to XH myself. I was pretty much out of the picture once my dd turned 18 but she continued to use me as an excuse if she didn't want to go see her dad. She'd say something like I needed her help, or we were going shopping for needed items. I understand there should be an adult relationship between them, but turning 18 and/or graduating high school doesn't mean waving some magic wand and that relationship be a mature and mutually respective one.

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I don’t think you should be involved at all. DS is almost an adult. Tell that to both.

 

I might remind my kid that opportunities like this are fleeting and maybe he could compromise on something shorter and not far flung. I doubt any kid would look back later in life and say they regret going on that vacation with their father after graduation unless there is abuse or some real issue with the relationship. And then I’d forget it.

Edited by FuzzyCatz
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I would not talk an 18 year old into traveling who does not want to. This is between him and his father.

 

However, I would seriously wonder why on earth he would refuse the chance of a free trip. I certainly cannot comprehend this, unless there is something wrong between him and his dad.

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I would not talk an 18 year old into traveling who does not want to. This is between him and his father.

 

However, I would seriously wonder why on earth he would refuse the chance of a free trip. I certainly cannot comprehend this, unless there is something wrong between him and his dad.

I wonder this too.

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I would stay out of it altogether.  DS is an adult/almost adult.  This will have to be handled between them.  There is no positive to you getting involved.

 

If you say anything, it should be to DS saying that this is one of those things he has to handle as an adult.  Tell him if he wants any advice or assistance on how to handle it/say something, that you are available.

Edited by goldberry
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I talked to my son just now and he is just physically ill over the whole thing.  

 

The issues are he really doesn't like being around his dad.  It isn't like he is 'mad' or anything.  They have a cordial relationship....they have dinner twice a month together.  XH is generous with ds and is going to be paying for his college.  

 

The other issue is he really does just hate to travel and he hates being away from home for any length of time.  We took a big NYC trip 2 years  ago and he wanted to do some aspects of it, but overall he did not enjoy being gone for so long.  When I suggested maybe he would have fun going on a trip with just one of his friends he said that did not appeal to him either.  

 

But he isn't a mean kid and has no desire to make his dad feel bad when his dad is so excited to do this trip for ds.  

 

He says he will tell his dad he doesn't want to.  He wants to know if he should text his dad and tell him FOR SURE he doesn't want to go or wait until he sees him next week for dinner.  

 

I did suggest he consider a one day train trip maybe to Dallas, spend one night and come home.  He said he might be ok with that.....

 

 

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XH calls me for help.....I really have tried to stay out of it, but I feel horrible for ds.  He did say he will tell his dad directly he doesn't want to go.  I told him it is not his responsibility to manage his dad's feelings as long as he is respectful and as kind as he can be.

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Just another suggestion - your DS might enjoy the trip in a couple of years. Perhaps, your DD suggest to his dad that he doesn’t really want to go anywhere big right now but how about when he graduates college. Your DS by then may enjoy travel and he can have time to se if anywhere peaks his interest. For now, let them do a day trip/overnight somewhere close.

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What I would do depends on why ds doesn’t enjoy being around his dad. If there’s a reason like he feels his dad is domineering or judgmental, well yeah I would understand why he wouldn’t want to be around him. But failing a reason like that, maybe I’d talk to ds like the adult he almost is and point out that his dad might be trying to develop more than a twice monthly dinner relationship. And if ds doesn’t want that, it’s his choice but he also needs to own it.

 

As far as traveling goes, I get that some people don’t enjoy travel. I don’t understand it because I love going anywhere anytime, but I know a lot of people don’t feel that way. But if there is a specific reason like being afraid to fly then avoiding travel isn’t solving the problem. Of course maybe he just doesn’t enjoy traveling

 

So...if I thought ds should consider going in order to build the relationship, I might tell him that. But that’s all. No way would I get involved trying to convince him or do any trip planning.

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Regardless of what may or not be going on with the relationship between your son or dad, Scarlett, my opinion is that your son needs to be supported and rescued. Yes, he is 18 and is an adult. But just barely. He is being highly pressured to go with someone somewhere that he doesn't want to go.He is still so young. He may not know how to navigate through this alone with someone who is being so foreceful about this. You don't have to completely take over and intervene, but just support your son, and guide him in getting the point across to your ex that he doesn't want to go. Let your son lead, but if need be, step in be a bit firmer. I would definitely not be concerned that "he's an adult" and can handle this. Not in this situation. He is dealing with his own father, whom I'm sure he wants to please. Maybe he feels torn which is why there are tears....   My vote is to be in his corner and help him, but give him as much power in this situation as possible. If he needs more help. I'd give it. :)

 

Ten years from now, he'll be much more able to handle these types of things on his own.

 

I think this is what will have to happen.  I know even if ds tells his dad he doesn't want to go his dad will call me and whine around about it.  So I will have to be involved....I want to help ds stand up for himself but I can't just abandon him completely with his dad.

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Well, I would encourage my child to travel. To take a trip. The thing is, if you allow your hatred of travel (or fear?) to hold you back when you're 18, it just becomes worse and worse.

 

Now, if he suffers from serious travel-related anxiety, maybe his father is not the person to walk him through it. Maybe a very short trip is better with his dad. But I wouldn't let a kid this age not travel because he prefers to be home or doesn't like it. Traveling can be uncomfortable and unpleasant. It can take us out of our comfort zone. These are, I think, important things for a young person to be able to do. But pleasure is not the only point of travel. It would worry me that he is sick over this. If it's a father issue, that is one thing. But I wouldn't let him off the hook from leaving his comfort zone, because 18 is too young to be so entrenched in one's routine and habits that one doesn't want to spend a few days away from home.

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However, I would seriously wonder why on earth he would refuse the chance of a free trip. I certainly cannot comprehend this, unless there is something wrong between him and his dad.

 

One of my sons never travels with us.  He just hates it - any kind of trip.  It's hard because we do destination trips now that three of my sons are grown and have moved away, but it's not a family vacation without the one ds.  He joined us once and was absolutely miserable.  It's hard and we miss him, but it's better for him to not join us than come along and wish he wasn't there the whole time.  

 

ETA - and this son is the closest to us and his siblings emotionally.

 

 

Edited by Kassia
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I think this is what will have to happen. I know even if ds tells his dad he doesn't want to go his dad will call me and whine around about it. So I will have to be involved....I want to help ds stand up for himself but I can't just abandon him completely with his dad.[/quote

 

If ex calls to whine you should stand up for ds, just like you would any adult. Ex has to accept that ds is not required to take trips with him. I don’t really see that as getting involved as much as standing by what ds chooses to do. To me involved would be playing the go between for the conversations between ds and ex. This isn’t that- this is you telling ex that ds has choices and you aren’t getting involved.

I’m sorry- it sounds like a sticky situation.

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What does your son like? Sports, concerts, foreign foods, swimming? Maybe pick one thing that interests him and have him and his father plan a very short trip around it.

I’d certainly explain, especially if your XH has no idea that his son abhors traveling, because it’s a bit troubling if he already knows and still is pressuring for a longer trip.

I understand there were lots of anger in the divorce. Does your ex think your son is somehow still holding a grudge, etc? Is he? You say he meets twice a month for dinner, is that their only relationship? If it is, then a longer trip does seem oddly uncomfortable. But if the dad truly wants to take his son on a trip, and does not tie it in/make him feel guilty with the fact that he’s paying his college costs, then I think I would ask my son to be as cordial as his dad and either tell him no, no trip, or else a short outing that can appease them both.

 

 

My son hates sports. He loves music but not concerts because he doesn't like the volume.  

 

His dad knows ds doesn't like to travel, but he can't truly comprehend it....he thinks ds just hasn't been on a 'nice enough' trip.  But that isn't true.  I don't think ds is holding a grudge and I don't think XH thinks that.  Yes their only relationship is twice a month dinner.  and no XH is not doing any guilty over the paying of college....

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Well, I would encourage my child to travel. To take a trip. The thing is, if you allow your hatred of travel (or fear?) to hold you back when you're 18, it just becomes worse and worse.

 

Now, if he suffers from serious travel-related anxiety, maybe his father is not the person to walk him through it. Maybe a very short trip is better with his dad. But I wouldn't let a kid this age not travel because he prefers to be home or doesn't like it. Traveling can be uncomfortable and unpleasant. It can take us out of our comfort zone. These are, I think, important things for a young person to be able to do. But pleasure is not the only point of travel. It would worry me that he is sick over this. If it's a father issue, that is one thing. But I wouldn't let him off the hook from leaving his comfort zone, because 18 is too young to be so entrenched in one's routine and habits that one doesn't want to spend a few days away from home.

 

Ds has traveled a lot.  I have made him many times....he never enjoys it and never has good memories of it....he isn't afraid....it just isn't something he enjoys.  Add to that he can't stand the thought of a7 days with his dad and well, he just doesn't want to go.

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Well, I would encourage my child to travel. To take a trip. The thing is, if you allow your hatred of travel (or fear?) to hold you back when you're 18, it just becomes worse and worse.

 

Now, if he suffers from serious travel-related anxiety, maybe his father is not the person to walk him through it. Maybe a very short trip is better with his dad. But I wouldn't let a kid this age not travel because he prefers to be home or doesn't like it. Traveling can be uncomfortable and unpleasant. It can take us out of our comfort zone. These are, I think, important things for a young person to be able to do. But pleasure is not the only point of travel. It would worry me that he is sick over this. If it's a father issue, that is one thing. But I wouldn't let him off the hook from leaving his comfort zone, because 18 is too young to be so entrenched in one's routine and habits that one doesn't want to spend a few days away from home.

This. And he might be nervous that by going with your ex, it is somehow a betrayal of you. Kids get funny ideas sometimes. I would be very excited for him and encourage him to find a trip he'd enjoy.
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Ds has traveled a lot. I have made him many times....he never enjoys it and never has good memories of it....he isn't afraid....it just isn't something he enjoys. Add to that he can't stand the thought of a7 days with his dad and well, he just doesn't want to go.

Also, his dad is paying for his education and car, he can't give him a week?
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Also, his dad is paying for his education and car, he can't give him a week?

 

Well, I would be more comfortable saying, 'he is a human being and he is your father.  You can't give him a week?'  And ds will if he is forced.....but what is the point of that?  Spend 10K and ds is miserable for a week?  

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This. And he might be nervous that by going with your ex, it is somehow a betrayal of you. Kids get funny ideas sometimes. I would be very excited for him and encourage him to find a trip he'd enjoy.

 

I don't think he is afraid of betraying me.  I have encouraged him to think of SOMETHING he would like to do. His dad has said he will take him anywhere.  I have researched various cruises and trips and ideas and shown them all to ds.....He just doesn't want to go.  

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I think I would encourage my son to think up, propose, and negotiate an alternate experience he could do with his father. See a sports game, play, musical performance, even a movie, then do a nicer than usual dinner after. Do a service opportunity--work on a Habitat build, volunteer for Special Olympics, etc. Go on a shopping spree. Take a one-day photography class/expedition together. I would be concerned if son is saying "I just want to hang out on my phone" or do my own thing or something like that. I would also want him to keep developing the ability to maintain and improve human relationships, and however he feels about spending time with Dad, I don't think that's a relationship you throw away. What they do to maintain/improve that relationship is negotiable, but I wouldn't let him get away with "I don't want to do anything with him" (assuming no past abuse).

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I think I would encourage my son to think up, propose, and negotiate an alternate experience he could do with his father. See a sports game, play, musical performance, even a movie, then do a nicer than usual dinner after. Do a service opportunity--work on a Habitat build, volunteer for Special Olympics, etc. Go on a shopping spree. Take a one-day photography class/expedition together. I would be concerned if son is saying "I just want to hang out on my phone" or do my own thing or something like that. I would also want him to keep developing the ability to maintain and improve human relationships, and however he feels about spending time with Dad, I don't think that's a relationship you throw away. What they do to maintain/improve that relationship is negotiable, but I wouldn't let him get away with "I don't want to do anything with him" (assuming no past abuse).

 

 

Well, this is why they have dinner twice a month. Because I backed XH up on it and told ds it was not too much to ask considering his dad stopped making him go see him every other weekend when he was 14 1/2.  At the time he let him quit coming for regular visitation, he first tried to wait ds out and let him come when he wanted.  Never happened.  Ds would have gladly never seen him again.  We settled on twice a month and ds agreed to be nice.

 

I don't think they will ever be close.  That happens with fathers and sons sometimes.  I know XH wants more but sometimes it just works out that way.  

Edited by Scarlett
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Honestly, if someone told me that, I would feel manipulated. Your ds graduated, and the terms of how he wants to celebrate should be honored.

Editing to say you sound like a good mom...I think this will all work out .... ;) Just do what you think is best.

 

 

Right.  Me too.  And I have said that to him and then when he says he just can't because it will make him so miserable...I say, 'well, then you have to own that.  You have to tell him.'  But to me it is even WORSE to tell him, 'oh he is paying for your college and bought you a car so you should go on a trip with him even if you do hate it.'  

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I'm leaning toward he needs to find a way to make this work.  Unless he gets horribly motion sick or something, it is not reasonable to refuse to travel just because.  In his life ahead, he will likely need to travel for work and family activities (in-laws) to do things that aren't super fun.  I think this is a "suck it up and make the best of it" situation.  At least he is being given a ton of leeway in terms of where to go and what to do.

 

I also feel that although he is technically an adult, from prior posts etc. he sounds "young" enough that Mom is right to advise him.

Edited by SKL
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Well, this is why they have dinner twice a month. Because I backed XH up on it and told ds it was not too much to ask considering his dad stopped making him go see him every other weekend when he was 14 1/2. At the time he let him quit coming for regular visitation, he first tried to wait ds out and let him come when he wanted. Never happened. Ds would have gladly never seen him again. We settled on twice a month and ds agreed to be nice.

 

I don't think they will ever be close. That happens with fathers and sons sometimes. I know XH wants more but sometimes it just works out that way.

This sounds a lot like the relationship I have with my father. We aren't and won't be close. At 18, I would have refused to go on a trip like that and been unable to really articulate why. At 35, still nope, and even though I'm still trying to put it into words, I understand "why" a bit better.

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This sounds a lot like the relationship I have with my father. We aren't and won't be close. At 18, I would have refused to go on a trip like that and been unable to really articulate why. At 35, still nope, and even though I'm still trying to put it into words, I understand "why" a bit better.

 

And I think people have a really hard time understanding it.  If it was something ds really really wanted to do....he might could tolerate his dad.  But between ds not liking to travel in the first place and not liking his dad in the second place.....it just won't work.

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Is there a way that you could ask all parties involved to wait a few years for the trip?  There is a chance that your son might grow to like travel more and might bond with his dad more.  

 

Being in tears over this is a pretty strong emotion.  Is his dad abusive in some way?  I've been around some pretty unpleasant people, but I can't say that their presence brought me to tears.  

Edited by solascriptura
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Coincidentally , dss just left to go on a 7 day cruise with his grandparents.  And his granddad has Alzheimer's.   It was a very sudden thing because my MIL's back up person got hurt and couldn't go....so she had the third ticket paid for AND she needed the help...ds literally had 30 minutes to decide and pack.  He will be staying in the room with his elderly grandparents but he is so excited.  Ds?  No.  Just no way he could have done that even for his own grandparents whom he loves.

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Is there a way that you could ask all parties involved to wait a few years for the trip?  There is a chance that your son might grow to like travel more and might bond with his dad more.  

 

 

I did tell XH this morning when he called me that maybe ds would enjoy it more when he is a bit older.  

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I wouldn't require it, but I'd probably gently encourage it. 

 

Alternately, could they plan a week of special activities that doesn't involve travel? Could your ds think of some alternatives and request that? Day trips as opposed to a week of travel might be much more manageable, with the added bonus of returning to home base each evening (or every other day). 

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"Okay Ex. What I'm hearing is that you've tried bullying and it hasn't worked, and now you want me to do the bullying for you?"

 

 

Why yes I think you have him partially figured out.  Well, truthfully, he isn't bullying ds as much as  he just can't believe anyone would turn down these trips.  It is because XH doesn't tick the same way as ds.  

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I wouldn't require it, but I'd probably gently encourage it. 

 

Alternately, could they plan a week of special activities that doesn't involve travel? Could your ds think of some alternatives and request that? Day trips as opposed to a week of travel might be much more manageable, with the added bonus of returning to home base each evening (or every other day). 

 

 

But it isn't just the travel.  He really doesn't want to spend that much time with his dad.

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Right. Me too. And I have said that to him and then when he says he just can't because it will make him so miserable...I say, 'well, then you have to own that. You have to tell him.' But to me it is even WORSE to tell him, 'oh he is paying for your college and bought you a car so you should go on a trip with him even if you do hate it.'

Yes, that does sound awful.
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I have one child who loves to travel and another who really dislikes travel (sometime to the point of getting sick thinking about it).  We had a wonderful graduation trip for one child and kept thinking we weren't offering the correct vacation trip for the other child--until we realized the child just would prefer NOT to travel much.  

 

If I were in the situation, I would support my son if it were his decision not to take a trip, but I would not get involved in the situation of talking to his dad about it.  If I thought something like, "How would it be if you suggested a camping trip for a long weekend to..." or "How would it be if you suggested that you and your dad get tickets to the big basketball game..."  Or "How would it be if you suggested you and your dad spend time together building a bookcase..."  would provide an alternative option of a special event the two could share, I might try to help my son brainstorm some ways to approach this.  

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Does your DS have anxiety? I can understand his not liking travel or wanting to spend time with his dad regardless. It just crossed my mind to wonder if anxiety could be exacerbating it. 

Well, He might lean toward the anxious, but it isn't debilitating . He functions fine in his every day life.  He has no trouble driving in to the city to do things with his friends.  He just doesn't enjoy being away from his house for day son end.  

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Why yes I think you have him partially figured out. Well, truthfully, he isn't bullying ds as much as he just can't believe anyone would turn down these trips. It is because XH doesn't tick the same way as ds.

Right, because trips is something he can do to check off a box on the "Dad list". And show off pictures and maintain an illusion that he has earned a moving-into-adulthood relationship with his son, without actually earning it. Am I getting close?

 

My dad complained to me that his teen sons didn't want to go on vacation with him. He picks the destination, and what they do, and how long they go, but there isn't a goal of relationship building at all. They just happen to be traveling in the same place at the same time. He is an extrovert, always finding random people to chat up and make friends with.. and completely ignoring the ones who share his last name. He doesn't see it that way. He took them somewhere! And talks at them! And buys cool things like a boat and camper so they can also say they have one! *sigh*

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