How do I make sure Alg I is solid?

[sbgrace]

One of my 8th graders is finishing up CLE Algebra I within the next month or two. He's also completed a good part of Jacob's Algebra concurrent, but we've slacked on that recently. 

 

I don't know what to do when he's done with CLE. I could finish up Jacob's. I could run him through the chapter tests in Lial's, as I own that. Alternatively, we could call him "done" and launch geometry. I could do some combination? 

 

I think my hesitation with leaving Algebra for geometry is that I know it's important to have it rock solid. But I don't know how to know he's there! 

 

How do you know Algebra I is good enough to move on? Is there an assessment I could have him take? 

Edited February 19, 2018 by sbgrace

[regentrude]

Give a comprehensive final at the end of the semester or year, to test long term retention and mastery.

Chapter tests are useless, because they test short term retention. Algebra 1 concepts must be mastered to such a degree that the student can recall them years later.

[EKS]

A agree with regentrude that a comprehensive final is an important thing to do, but...

 

It is very likely that no matter how rock solid the student is, he will lose some algebra while completing geometry.  If you continue homeschooling, this is really ok. Really, I promise.  Actually, it's a good thing.  The stuff that gets lost is the stuff that wasn't in there well in the first place.  So you reteach, repractice, and move on.  The long pause is actually helpful (IMO) for learning.

 

 

[regentrude]

It is very likely that no matter how rock solid the student is, he will lose some algebra while completing geometry.  If you continue homeschooling, this is really ok. Really, I promise.  Actually, it's a good thing.  The stuff that gets lost is the stuff that wasn't in there well in the first place.  So you reteach, repractice, and move on.  The long pause is actually helpful (IMO) for learning.

 

A rigorous geometry program should be using all the basic algebra skills (linear equations, systems of equations, quadratics), and the student will also use algebra in chemistry and physics. This means algebra is continuously used and reinforced.

[EKS]

A rigorous geometry program should be using all the basic algebra skills (linear equations, systems of equations, quadratics), and the student will also use algebra in chemistry and physics. This means algebra is continuously used and reinforced.

 

I wouldn't say continuously, but yes, some of it will get reinforced.

 

But it isn't the end of the world if things get forgotten, as long as someone is paying attention and is ready to backfill if necessary.

 

I think that a lot of math angst on the part of homeschooling parents results from not knowing the math themselves, handing a kid a textbook, and only grading for correct answers (because they can't grade any other way).  I'm not saying that this is what's going on with the op, but if you know how a kid is doing day to day when they hit Algebra 2, it's really ok if they've forgotten something.  

[kokotg]

My first two that have made it that far both used Jacobs and have done really well with what's come after. My 14 yo is just doing Jacobs Geometry now, but my oldest did geometry after and then a compressed Algebra II/Pre-calc course with Foersters, and is now doing really well in BC Calc. DH is a calc teacher at a public high school, and he's very impressed with Jacobs and says it goes well beyond what a typical Algebra course teaches these days. 

[Joyful]

To add to the above, if/when your student studies chemistry and physics content, they will be making use of their algebra skills.

My DS1 has done fine doing the sequence of Alg1, Geo, Alg2. If he had forgotten something from Alg1 while doing Alg2, a quick review was all that

was needed.

[kokotg]

My DS16 just said that Jacobs "makes Algebra 2 a big waste of time."  :laugh:  I think he means that as high praise.

[MarkT]

Being a little lazy myself - I would find some free placement tests for the assessment instead of creating a final - I would use different sources which would probably overlap.

Send a PM if you want some more details.

 

Mark

 

[Farrar]

You can easily find released old state Algebra I tests - many states require a test to prove you've passed.

 

For example, here's Virginia's:

http://www.doe.virginia.gov/testing/sol/released_tests/2010/test10_eoc_algebra1.pdf

 

Here's NC's:

http://www.ncpublicschools.org/docs/accountability/testing/releasedforms/alg1pprelease.pdf

 

Those were just the first to come up. There are plenty others. These will likely be pretty easy overall, but if you want evidence that you really accomplished what public schools see as an algebra I course, then passing with flying colors will probably make you feel confident (and probably isn't a bad thing for your student to practice).

[Pink and Green Mom]

Give a comprehensive final at the end of the semester or year, to test long term retention and mastery.

Chapter tests are useless, because they test short term retention. Algebra 1 concepts must be mastered to such a degree that the student can recall them years later.

 

Regentrude, thank you for posting this.  You said something similar on another thread and it gave me a lot to think about.  My DS16 had a dreadful Algebra I experience in middle school (three teachers over one year, lots of gaps).  He did great in Geometry but isn't doing his usual A work in Algebra II.  His PSAT scores actaully dropped quite a bit from 9th to 10th grade.  I have taken your words of wisdom and finally convinced DH that we have to do something.

 

Not to hijack but can I ask you a question?  Would you recommend having a child with Algebra I gaps do Algebra I over again during the summer if he has already finished Geometry and Algebra II?  I'm thinking it can't hurt, just curious about your thoughts if you don't mind.

 

Sorry for the hijack.

[regentrude]

Regentrude, thank you for posting this.  You said something similar on another thread and it gave me a lot to think about.  My DS16 had a dreadful Algebra I experience in middle school (three teachers over one year, lots of gaps).  He did great in Geometry but isn't doing his usual A work in Algebra II.  His PSAT scores actaully dropped quite a bit from 9th to 10th grade.  I have taken your words of wisdom and finally convinced DH that we have to do something.

 

Not to hijack but can I ask you a question?  Would you recommend having a child with Algebra I gaps do Algebra I over again during the summer if he has already finished Geometry and Algebra II?  I'm thinking it can't hurt, just curious about your thoughts if you don't mind.

 

Yes. Any algebra I gaps will come back to bite him. I am not sure how such a student can be successful in algebra 2, because the algebra 1 concepts are constantly needed there. If he clearly has gaps, I would be very concerned. Time spent on shoring up algebra 1 until it is solid is much more important than racing to calculus.

 

[Kendall]

You could use chapter tests to more quickly determine where the gaps are, then go slower when you hit one. Ideally you would be able to review algebra 1 and much of algebra 2 before going on to precalculus. 

 

For the OP  - When I had time between Geometry and 

 

I will make an attempt to answer both the OP and the recent question

 

When I had time after completing a high school math and before the next school year, I have 

 

1) with the child I knew would have had extra time after Algebra 1, I am attempting to strengthen her skills and problem solving abilities by doing AoPS alternating with the algebra text we are using. If I hadn't thought of that in time, I would have started AoPS when she finished or maybe used alcumus online. Even if you do chapter tests(Or selected problems which done in quick succession is more like a long comprehensive exam) and determine that your child seems solid, you could spend the time until the end of the year(and/or through the summer) to strengthen/deepen algebra skills and problem solving skills because they both are so fundamental.

 

2) A different child had time between Geometry and Algebra 2. I went through the chapter tests for algebra 1 and stopped and retaught as necessary. We also did ACT tests and as we went over every single question on the ACT practice tests, topics came up we added them(and the algebra skills from the text) to a continual set of review "flashcards" that she would cycle through. This made a HUGE difference in her math skills which has made algebra 2 go much better and improved her ACT score. 

 

Edited to add - I think algebra should be reviewed regularly through geometry and I do not think very many geometry texts have enough and they do not review it all.  I haven't personally seem a geometry text that had enough to thoroughly review algebra. solving equations and systems of equations and quadratic equation and even some radical work are used in geometry, but not necessarily enough. Some topics just aren't used in geometry.

 

 

Edited February 19, 2018 by matermultorum