frugalmamatx Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 For a variety of reasons {No affordable options, difference in mindset with local homeschoolers}, outsourcing private classes for DD for high school isn't an option. I had planned to have her do dual enrollment at the CC starting at 15 {Sophomore} to cover most of her high school classes. But it's looking like it's VERY possible that option won't be open either - they are considering phasing out the dual enrollment due to costs. It's already gone from free to half tuition, which makes it a stretch for us financially since there is no financial aid for DE. I'm contemplating just graduating DD early at 15 or 16, then having her do CC with a max of 12 hours per semester {full time minimum}. Wouldn't be a rigorous high school program, but she's not going to be applying anywhere rigorous either tbh. Would she be able to get financial aid / grants at that age? I've also considered graduating her early and letting her take a gap year or two to work to save funds for college. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 I would totally do that. And FTR, if she's taking classes at the community college which will transfer to a four-year college, it won't matter that she didn't have a "rigorous high school program." 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicia64 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Hi FrugalMamaTX -- Can I take from your name that you're in Texas? I'm so sorry they're phasing out DE -- because I'd planned on the exact same path for my boys. Do you think they'll really phase it out that fast? They won't do a "in two years" type of thing? Not knowing your entire situation, I'd probably continue homeschooling her until she's 17 -- having her work a part-time job to save for CC (waitresses make a fortune). I think you're smart for not taking the school loans route. Alley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frugalmamatx Posted February 17, 2018 Author Share Posted February 17, 2018 Hi FrugalMamaTX -- Can I take from your name that you're in Texas? I'm so sorry they're phasing out DE -- because I'd planned on the exact same path for my boys. Do you think they'll really phase it out that fast? They won't do a "in two years" type of thing? Not knowing your entire situation, I'd probably continue homeschooling her until she's 17 -- having her work a part-time job to save for CC (waitresses make a fortune). I think you're smart for not taking the school loans route. Alley I don't know how fast they are planning on phasing it out. I know the local district is shutting down it's Early College academy effective this year and not accepting any more students into the program {current student will be able to finish}. Other local districts are doing the same. DD is in an odd place - She's 11, 6th grade ish. But could easily be capable of high school level in everything but math. So I'm contemplating just skipping to high school level content. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Why don’t you just teach her high school at home to the level of rigor you want? That’s what I did for ds (now in college) and am doing with dd. I’m just putting this out there because sometimes people don’t seem to realize that it is possible. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Why not actually homeschool high school? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frugalmamatx Posted February 18, 2018 Author Share Posted February 18, 2018 Why don’t you just teach her high school at home to the level of rigor you want? That’s what I did for ds (now in college) and am doing with dd. I’m just putting this out there because sometimes people don’t seem to realize that it is possible. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Why not actually homeschool high school? Frankly? Because 1. I can't afford decent materials to be able to give her that level of education, and 2. My skills in math and science are not such I'm comfortable teaching her in those subjects without good scripted materials. I fully realize it's possible. I also realize that, given the materials I have available, my budget {both $$$ and time} and the resources I have access to - the best I can do is a non-rigorous, math and science light program and prep her for Community college entry. I"m also potentially looking at having to go back to a regular 8-5 job in a few years, giving me incentive to get her graduated early if possible. And actually I would be homeschooling high school - just early. She'd skip 7th and 8th and go straight into 9th in the fall, using Paradigm Accelerated Curriculum. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie of KY Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 I'd homeschool her without outsourcing. I wouldn't graduate her early unless she's really academically ahead and ready for college. She has years that she can study and learn anything she/you want without the constraints of having to do x,y,z classes and assignments. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
................... Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 The problem with what you're saying is that the Federal aid (including loans) only lasts 5 or 6 years. Once you start using it you have exactly 6 years to finish...if you apply again it'll be turned down. (it could be five but I'm pretty sure it's 6) SO you do NOT want to start using aid if you plan to take a slow community college route. University will be a lot more expensive and she needs the loans then. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 (edited) Frankly? Because 1. I can't afford decent materials to be able to give her that level of education, and 2. My skills in math and science are not such I'm comfortable teaching her in those subjects without good scripted materials. I fully realize it's possible. I also realize that, given the materials I have available, my budget {both $$$ and time} and the resources I have access to - the best I can do is a non-rigorous, math and science light program and prep her for Community college entry. The internet is full of free online college courses in math and science. There's a MOOC for pretty much everything. You can acquire good textbooks for $5. Not saying you need to do this, but it is possible to get high quality materials for almost nothing. ETA: And with a 16 y/o, mom working full time should not be an unsurmountable obstacle. Edited February 18, 2018 by regentrude 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 I ended up doing both, homeschooling most of high school on a shoestring budget and then graduated him early because I knew we'd get enough need based aid to cover tuition. For me, I needed to do what was best for ds. I homeschooled two years while attending college full time and going through a divorce. Then it got to the point he needed better math instruction and keeping him home another year would have been to his disadvantage. I cobbled together credits out of books I owned, textbooks bought a thrift stores or cheap on amazon, spent the most on foreign language books with a few "grants" from family members. The thing is, you can homeschool high school on a small budget. Ds never took an outsourced class until he set foot on a college campus -this was not by choice but because of the chaos of our lives. He was ready though. Ds ended up unschooling a few subjects because he had the interest and found his own sources. He kept track of hours and had a few projects along the way. He is currently a junior in college, doing well, and is a math major - the main subject for which I graduated him early. It is possible to homeschool while working and on a tiny budget. For us, it was either continue homeschooling or do public school. If I had truly felt like I couldn't handle homeschooling, I would have enrolled him in school before graduating him before HE was ready. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom22ns Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 I think you must have unrealistic ideas about what it costs to provide quality instruction at the high school level at home. There are a lot of free-inexpensive options that will allow her to continue to homeschool and can bridge her into very independent study if she moves beyond your ability. If she is only 11 now, I would just work where she is - if that is high school level work, go for it, although I would consider using something stronger that PAC if she is really gifted. If she is 11, I wouldn't try to plan now for what you will do when she is 15. A great deal will change in the next 4 years. She may fly ahead and be ready for college, DE may still be an option, she may slow down or burn out and need more time in high school. Take it one year at a time and enjoy. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 (edited) I would encourage you to take the long-term view vs. short-term. As noted above, it is possible to homeschool cheaply. Courses can be as expensive or as cheap as you make them. But, my reason for posting is the long-term costs. Kids who graduate early and attend a CC are less competitive for scholarships. Schools are the best source of scholarship $$ and transfer scholarships are fewer in number and many times not as generous. A gifted student who homeschools all the way to actual graduation age (or maybe a yr early) has the opportunity to build a stronger transcript and resume. If they use that opportunity, they can really shine during the college application season and possibly get accepted to 100% meets need schools (which if your income is low means they can qualify for large amts of institutional grant aid) or be competitive for merit scholarships. My college sr did cost us quite a bit to homeschool bc he de at our local 4 yr university for math and science bc he was taking 300 level courses. So, short term we had to pay full cost for those classes. (2-3 per semester for 2 yrs) Long term he was awarded full merit scholarship, so his actual 4 yrs of UG were covered via merit. Our college freshman cost us relatively little to homeschool. We paid for a foreign lang tutor. Almost everything else was very low cost. She is attending on not quite full scholarship. Both of them were extremely advanced students. They entered college taking multiple 300/400 level courses. I still counted 7th grade as 7th grade. I just simply let them take courses that matched their needs. Fwiw, some kids can manage complete self-supervision during school hrs while a parent works. Others can't. They change a lot between 11 and 16, so you can't assess yet. But you will probably be able to tell as she gets older. My 2 current college kids were 100% self-motivated. Not all of my kids have been like that and needed me around to stay on task. So, that is a completely different factor if you need to return to work full time. ETA: I don't know anything about PAC but I wonder if a prefab curriculum is appropriate for a gifted student. If other posters are questioning its strength, it might be worth re-evaluating that choice and seeing if cheaper but stronger options exist. If not, all you have wasted is researching time. Edited February 18, 2018 by 8FillTheHeart 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
................... Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 I would encourage you to take the long-term view vs. short-term. As noted above, it is possible to homeschool cheaply. Courses can be as expensive or as cheap as you make them. But, my reason for posting is the long-term costs. Kids who graduate early and attend a CC are less competitive for scholarships. Schools are the best source of scholarship $$ and transfer scholarships are fewer in number and many times not as generous. A gifted student who homeschools all the way to actual graduation age (or maybe a yr early) has the opportunity to build a stronger transcript and resume. If they use that opportunity, they can really shine during the college application season and possibly get accepted to 100% meets need schools (which if your income is low means they can qualify for large amts of institutional grant aid) or be competitive for merit scholarships. My college sr did cost us quite a bit to homeschool bc he de at our local 4 yr university for math and science bc he was taking 300 level courses. So, short term we had to pay full cost for those classes. (2-3 per semester for 2 yrs) Long term he was awarded full merit scholarship, so his actual 4 yrs of UG were covered via merit. Our college freshman cost us relatively little to homeschool. We paid for a foreign lang tutor. Almost everything else was very low cost. She is attending on not quite full scholarship. Both of them were extremely advanced students. They entered college taking multiple 300/400 level courses. I still counted 7th grade as 7th grade. I just simply let them take courses that matched their needs. Fwiw, some kids can manage complete self-supervision during school hrs while a parent works. Others can't. They change a lot between 11 and 16, so you can't assess yet. But you will probably be able to tell as she gets older. My 2 current college kids were 100% self-motivated. Not all of my kids have been like that and needed me around to stay on task. So, that is a completely different factor if you need to return to work full time. ETA: I don't know anything about PAC but I wonder if a prefab curriculum is appropriate for a gifted student. If other posters are questioning its strength, it might be worth re-evaluating that choice and seeing if cheaper but stronger options exist. If not, all you have wasted is researching time. Agreed. We are doing the early CC route, and its great. I LOVE it. BUT, we pretty much have nixed the kids possibility of private U scholarships. Here in our state they're nearly unheard-of anyway. Cultural influences are such that you have to be perfect, have the perfect line up of extra curriculars, a 5.0 GPA, AND perfect SAT scores, to even have that possibility....and even then it's kind of like a lottery. One perfect student might be chosen over another because of any reason that may seem random to us, but means something to the university. (One Stanford student told us he had slightly lower grades and SAT than his best friend but he was accepted because, he assumes, he had a very unique talent, he did circus juggling, and his friend was cookie-cutter) (Stanford, and other private schools here, take great pains to even out their student body with unusual or creative individuals who often start or join clubs, or teach free classes at Stanford Splash using those hobbies or talents) ... All that to say, however if you live in a more normal place, and the regular private universities are appealing to you, and your daughter is gifted, you may definitely want to consider the idea that homeschooling all the way through high school and entering college as an actual freshman, does put your dd in a much better place for scholarships to private Us. (You could still DE when you can afford it) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 Agreed. We are doing the early CC route, and its great. I LOVE it. BUT, we pretty much have nixed the kids possibility of private U scholarships. Here in our state they're nearly unheard-of anyway. Cultural influences are such that you have to be perfect, have the perfect line up of extra curriculars, a 5.0 GPA, AND perfect SAT scores, to even have that possibility....and even then it's kind of like a lottery. One perfect student might be chosen over another because of any reason that may seem random to us, but means something to the university. (One Stanford student told us he had slightly lower grades and SAT than his best friend but he was accepted because, he assumes, he had a very unique talent, he did circus juggling, and his friend was cookie-cutter) (Stanford, and other private schools here, take great pains to even out their student body with unusual or creative individuals who often start or join clubs, or teach free classes at Stanford Splash using those hobbies or talents) ... All that to say, however if you live in a more normal place, and the regular private universities are appealing to you, and your daughter is gifted, you may definitely want to consider the idea that homeschooling all the way through high school and entering college as an actual freshman, does put your dd in a much better place for scholarships to private Us. (You could still DE when you can afford it) Just wanted to clarify that my kids both attend large public flagships. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
................... Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 (edited) ah, that's awesome. Our State Us only offers merit-based scholarships to 200 students per campus, and it's only 2500 per year. Almost worthless except for the perks. (priority enrollment, extra advising, etc.) There's essentially no such thing as an awesome monetary scholarship that is merit based at our public Us. Here, the Private U's are the ones that do a LOT more for students, that is merit-based. They are well known for giving scholarships to deserving students, regardless of income. :) Maybe it's different in Texas. Either way, it's important for OP to be aware that research needs to go into all of these decisions, based on her own state, situation, universities etc. Edited February 19, 2018 by Calming Tea 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 More opportunities open up if students are willing to look at a larger geographic area, including out of state. Also some privates don't offer merit but only need based aid, so knowing your family's financial profile based on net price calculators can give you a rough idea of affordability. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
................... Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 (edited) YES! OP, use those Net Price calculators. This is what helped us realize the path we personally needed to take. 8Fill, I am so thankful you shared about that last year because I had always assumed certain financial things, and was 100% wrong. It was shocking. And yes, if my student had been willing to go out of state, he would have had a lot more possibilities open up for admissions, and maybe even scholarships as well. Edited February 19, 2018 by Calming Tea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryAtHope Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 I think only you can decide what's best for your dd and your family. But what I did do in that situation was just homeschool high school. It wasn't always easy. I was working 20-30 hours a week most weeks, and science is not my forte either. As I told my daughter when she would get something wrong or wouldn't understand a concept, we're two intelligent women, we can figure this out. And then we just dug in and looked for answers in the book or online or through the publisher until we figured it out. Was it as good as an expert in the field teaching my kids? No. But I think they learned a lot about how to learn, and I think they still got a solid education. My dd has definitely felt well-prepared for her science courses in college (she's going on in nursing. DS has done fine as well, he just did gen-ed sciences & not "weeder" courses.) Anyway...I will say that I really loved those years with my kids and I'm glad we had that time together. That doesn't make it the right choice for everyone--but I was glad they had those final two high school years to mature and grow and prepare for college. Your comment about your dd not being ready for high school math would give me pause about pushing her ahead and graduating early though. An early graduate really needs to excel in all areas to test and move on successfully. With regard to costs, I resold a lot of materials which helped make things more affordable. (I also have a couple of friends who do a yard sale every year and let me put items in, and even years I've thought I didn't have much to sell at all, I was able to make $100-$200, which also really helped with curriculum purchases.) And if you think homeschool curriculum is expensive--college books are even more so! Sometimes you can find deals used or by renting but with needing university-specific versions, online access codes required etc, it can also be challenging. So just know you'll still have costs there (which may or may not be covered by financial aid, depending on your situation.) Anyway--just know that it's very doable to homeschool high school, even on a limited budget. I remember the fears I had going in about whether I could do it and do it effectively. You really can. If you decide to go for early graduation, do it because it's really the best thing for your daughter and family, and not out of fear. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkT Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 The internet is full of free online college courses in math and science. There's a MOOC for pretty much everything. You can acquire good textbooks for $5. Not saying you need to do this, but it is possible to get high quality materials for almost nothing. ETA: And with a 16 y/o, mom working full time should not be an unsurmountable obstacle. AND the good folks here in the WTM forums could help you out with specific course recommendations etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G5052 Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 I'm a community college professor, and I graduated one of mine a year early, but I personally wouldn't graduate a kid at sixteen. Community college is very different than homeschooling, and I much preferred a gradual approach where they took a few classes in an area of strength before going full-time there. Yes, we had to pay for it, but it was worth it. We had mixed experiences with outside classes, and frankly each of the community college classes we chose were worthwhile. It gave them a chance to get used to outside teachers, college demands, and a more diverse environment that they experienced being homeschooled. As a professor, I call tell you that there are WIDE differences between kids who graduate early. I've only seen a handful of younger kids do well with a full college load. I personally didn't want to put mine into a situation that might be crash-and-burn as I've observed with some of the homeschooled early graduates I know. Sometimes it does work out, but I wanted to be thoughtful about that transition. Keep in mind the community colleges generally have far more need-based aid than merit aid. My oldest ended up with multiple merit scholarships, but they only had a handful of those. My younger one received no aid because we didn't qualify for need-based. For us at least, phasing in with a few classes before they went full-time was a better choice. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luuknam Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 I get that you want to graduate her early so she can get financial aid, but CC in TX is pretty cheap in my experience... the one I attended last is currently $249 in tuition + fees for a 3 hour class, or $332 for a 4 hour course (realistically most sciences are going to be 4 hour courses). Textbooks are expensive, but, since you talked about your daughter working, it'd be quite doable to have her work part time and summers to pay for science + math at a CC in TX, so, you could do that as DE even if DE becomes full cost. Like others said, I'd save the student loans for when she's older, and preferably for after she transfers to a 4-year, which will be much more expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katilac Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 1. I can't afford decent materials to be able to give her that level of education, and 2. My skills in math and science are not such I'm comfortable teaching her in those subjects without good scripted materials. <snip> And actually I would be homeschooling high school - just early. She'd skip 7th and 8th and go straight into 9th in the fall, using Paradigm Accelerated Curriculum. Keep in mind that there is a big difference between being academically ready for high school courses, and being developmentally ready for high school, with the longer hours and credit requirements and so on. Both of my kids are very strong students who score in the top percentiles, but neither of them were developmentally ready for high school in 7th grade (I know some are). There is really such an abundance of inexpensive materials available that I would not consider light/easy high school just because you are not strong in math or science. My preference is always for a stronger preparation on a typical schedule, rather than a faster, lighter preparation, which tends to catch up to you in college. Older but very usable editions for science can be had very cheaply, many of which teach directly to the student and also have teacher guides available. There are MOOCS and other resources galore on the internet. We did some of our science classes for considerably less than the PAC digital download option, and certainly the print option. The texts appear to be very short, with only 8 chapters in biology. I would definitely ask for a page count before purchasing. I would personally not consider PAC to be true high school level as it stands. English is grammar and/or composition only until 12th grade, and pretty basic imo. And they only appear to have one math credit, which isn't even a full algebra course. They simply refer you to other providers for math. As math is one of your main concerns, they don't seem like a great overall option. If you think she can handle high school in 7th grade, why do you also think she will not go anywhere rigorous for college? It's very early to be closing the doors on school choice and possible merit aid. And, as you describe the CC as not having rigor even for high school, she will at least wind up somewhere more rigorous to complete her four-year degree. Weak preparation can really tank that. Remember, when she is at CC, she will be more or less on her own, no matter what her age. She will be dealing with professors, schedules, the whole nine yards. There is often mature content in many of the classes, you have to be okay with that. If full-time work is in the cards, why not consider sending her to high school? Most of the problems that may exist at high school are also going to exist at CC, because it's the same pool of students - along with a cohort of older, more experienced students. I'm sorry if it seems like I'm picking your plans apart, but I don't see how PAC solves your problems, and I think there are other options. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunshineMom Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 (edited) I looked into PAC, sorry but it looks very light for high school. I would be cautious about using light high school curriculum and graduating your student early. I would suggest researching high school level providers and evaluating their strengths and weaknesses. Edited February 20, 2018 by Jewels 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in VA Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Have you considered online dual enrollment? My daughter got a lot of general ed credits out of the way doing that. There are some very cheap options out there. Also, check into the colleges your student is ultimately hoping to attend. In our area the SAT/GPA scholarships are only available to freshman. By that they mean kids who have not attended college after graduation. You can have as many college credits as you want but it you attended college after graduation then you are no longer eligible. This includes CC. So what seems like a cheaper option can really be more costly. My middle daughter graduated at 16. She turned 17 that summer and went away to college. I don't know many kids who could handle it. She did but I also knew she could. She is now a sophomore double majoring in psychology and chemistry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkT Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 I don't know how fast they are planning on phasing it out. I know the local district is shutting down it's Early College academy effective this year and not accepting any more students into the program {current student will be able to finish}. Other local districts are doing the same. DD is in an odd place - She's 11, 6th grade ish. But could easily be capable of high school level in everything but math. So I'm contemplating just skipping to high school level content. She is still very young. Looking way ahead is she/you thinking about majoring in a STEM field in college? Good that you are planning early so you don't need to rush your decisions! Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkT Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 There is really such an abundance of inexpensive materials available that I would not consider light/easy high school just because you are not strong in math or science. My preference is always for a stronger preparation on a typical schedule, rather than a faster, lighter preparation, which tends to catch up to you in college. Older but very usable editions for science can be had very cheaply, many of which teach directly to the student and also have teacher guides available. There are MOOCS and other resources galore on the internet. We did some of our science classes for considerably less than the PAC digital download option, and certainly the print option. The texts appear to be very short, with only 8 chapters in biology. I would definitely ask for a page count before purchasing. Once again I would like to add folks here would be willing to help you put some of this material together. Many have specialties and talents. At least you could of consider starting that way to see how it goes. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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