Deferment question and NCAA eligibility question...kind of urgent -- Updated

[LisaKinVA]

So, last night, my oldest son received a telephone call to inform him that he had won one of four full-tuition scholarships to a University.  He has 2 weeks to accept or decline.  Up until that moment, he was planning to take a gap year to do a paid engineering internship, and some light studies, continue swimming, as well as some travel. 

 

**He has to call the financial aid office on Tuesday to even ask about the question of being able to commit and defer a year** BUT, I had an additional question.

 

Until recently, this school originally was his top choice.  Over the course of the past several months, his desire to apply to and attend a service academy (or possibly enlist) has grown.  This interest has been bolstered by his continued physical improvement post-heart procedure, and a letter declaring his condition cured, as well as the "asthma" diagnosis being proven unwarranted on his official medical record (airway test/chemical challenge both passed with flying colors)  He now wants to begin submitting applications for fall of 2019 admission to all five service academies (I'm a bit floored...)

 

If he defers his attendance, would this prevent him from applying to the service academies? 

If not, and he is accepted to a service academy, all we lose is the deposit, correct?

 

**NCAA** As long as he doesn't commit to swim for the university in which he has deferred, his eligibility to swim for a different school would be unaffected, correct?  What if he committed to swim for the University and then decided not to attend later?

 

**NCAA** Right now, I haven't had to complete any NCAA forms, as the school is D3 -- however if he swam D1, I would have to go back to do that for the process if he gained admission to the D1 school, even as a walk-on?

 

We're kind of in a crazy situation right now, as we have to get all of these questions answered in a 2 week time period, and we leave for London on Thursday for European Championships... decision due 24 hours after we return.

 

**UPDATED** He is leaning towards turning this school down.  He came up with his pro/con list, and this school has a serious con.  Unbeknownst to me, he thinks he may want to major on Computer Engineering (which he'd be able to try during his internship here, along with mechanical).  This school only offers mechanical, so he'd be stuck.  Every other school on his list offers both (or a pathway to both). His biggest con to delaying school for a year is being older than most of the kids in his class (which I don't think is a huge negative ;) )

Edited February 22, 2018 by LisaK in VA is in IT

[JanetC]

I would totally go back to the school giving you the deadline and tell them DS is focused on the European Championships right now, we need another week on this.

 

The next suggestion would be, "are you crazy? take the full tuition scholarship!!" (unless you neglected to mention that it's a lousy school or you don't really need the money). He can apply to the service academies for 2019 while going to the school that offered him the scholarship in 2018.

 

 

[LisaKinVA]

I would totally go back to the school giving you the deadline and tell them DS is focused on the European Championships right now, we need another week on this.

 

The next suggestion would be, "are you crazy? take the full tuition scholarship!!" (unless you neglected to mention that it's a lousy school or you don't really need the money). He can apply to the service academies for 2019 while going to the school that offered him the scholarship in 2018.

 

He's still $8,000 a year short on cash to attend... I guess I should have mentioned that.  Oh, and swimming for this school would cost him a year of eligibility at a crucial time in the run up to Trials.

[Frances]

He's still $8,000 a year short on cash to attend... I guess I should have mentioned that. Oh, and swimming for this school would cost him a year of eligibility at a crucial time in the run up to Trials.

Is the $8k shortage before or after loans and any summer work?

[LisaKinVA]

Is the $8k shortage before or after loans and any summer work?

It's after loans and summer work.  Part of the reason the gap year was so appealing, he could earn enough to make up the shortfall for 2 years, which should put him in a timeframe to get paid internships before his junior and senior years, which would help cover any remaining gap.

Edited February 17, 2018 by LisaK in VA is in IT

[JanetC]

Are you expecting a better financial aid offer from elsewhere?

 

I would still ask the original school

(A) Can you have more time due to DS in European Championships?

(B) Is the offer deferrable if he decides to work for a year to earn money towards expenses not covered by the scholarship?

 

All schools which are members of NACAC are supposed to give students until May 1st to decide on all offers. THey are not supposed to take financial aid away for not responding on artificially tight deadlines. You can ask them about that as well.

 

https://www.nacacnet.org/advocacy--ethics/statement-of-principles-of-good-practice/

[Frances]

It's after loans and summer work. Part of the reason the gap year was so appealing, he could earn enough to make up the shortfall for 2 years, which should put him in a timeframe to get paid internships before his junior and senior years, which would help cover any remaining gap.

If he doesn’t have the $ to attend without taking a gap year to work, then it sounds like declining or deferring are the only options. If he is allowed to defer and they will hold the scholarship, then it doesn’t seem ethical to me to apply to other schools during the Gap year since it seems he has promised them he would attend the following year and they are holding the scholarship for him.

 

In terms of using eligibility leading up to the trials, are you talking about the 2024 Olympic trials?

[8filltheheart]

Are you expecting a better financial aid offer from elsewhere?

 

 

I think this is a question that is worthy of consideration.  Full-tuition scholarships are pretty much the more typical amt of merit.  Room/board (which avgs between 10-15K/yr) is far less common.  Will turning down full-tuition possibly end up leaving him with a bigger, insurmountable gap next yr?  

 

If I am reading your posts correctly, he is thinking military academies and they are free.  What is the likelihood of admission?  Is it likely or small statistical probability? (I don't know anything about the MAs, but my perception is that the admission is competitive??)  If he doesn't gain admission, is he thinking of enlisting and postponing college?

 

Does he have an affordable option for this yr?

[LisaKinVA]

I think this is a question that is worthy of consideration.  Full-tuition scholarships are pretty much the more typical amt of merit.  Room/board (which avgs between 10-15K/yr) is far less common.  Will turning down full-tuition possibly end up leaving him with a bigger, insurmountable gap next yr?  

 

If I am reading your posts correctly, he is thinking military academies and they are free.  What is the likelihood of admission?  Is it likely or small statistical probability? (I don't know anything about the MAs, but my perception is that the admission is competitive??)  If he doesn't gain admission, is he thinking of enlisting and postponing college?

 

Does he have an affordable option for this yr?

 

His affordable option this fall, is to take the paid engineering internship, defer attendance for 1 year, save some money, while keeping at least math and physics fresh through MIT Scholars online.  

 

He has to call the financial aid office to discuss other need-based aid, as our FAFSA doesn't reflect our actual financial picture (as it counts our housing allowance as unearned income, and then we have some rather large medical bills we've been paying back the past 4 years, last year we paid out $20,000 in medical, but we aren't done yet, and won't be until sometime in 2020 with the current bills).  It is possible the university could come back with enough to push him over the finish line, so that with work and 5,000 in loans, he'd be okay. His dad and I would pay for his phone plan, and travel back to his grandparent's house and back to Italy once, as well as probably send the school a bit, too.

 

The Service Academy route is a mixed bag.  On the positive side, he can show really good reasons (medical regulations, internship, a year of maturing) why he waited to apply.  One SA does want him for swimming, and he's been in regular contact with that coach.  The others, he has to make contact with, and has a short time to do so.  A friend who worked on the Admissions board said nothing would come up as a red flag, but that his plan would be highly unusual (which could be seen as either good or bad, depending upon who you're talking to).

 

This is NOT the only school he's been accepted to, and has significant aid from another school (cost to attend would be the same, but the swim program is much stronger, however it's a bit further away).  

 

I think if everything went bust, he would enlist and delay entering college.

[8filltheheart]

His affordable option this fall, is to take the paid engineering internship, defer attendance for 1 year, save some money, while keeping at least math and physics fresh through MIT Scholars online.

 

He has to call the financial aid office to discuss other need-based aid, as our FAFSA doesn't reflect our actual financial picture (as it counts our housing allowance as unearned income, and then we have some rather large medical bills we've been paying back the past 4 years, last year we paid out $20,000 in medical, but we aren't done yet, and won't be until sometime in 2020 with the current bills). It is possible the university could come back with enough to push him over the finish line, so that with work and 5,000 in loans, he'd be okay. His dad and I would pay for his phone plan, and travel back to his grandparent's house and back to Italy once, as well as probably send the school a bit, too.

 

The Service Academy route is a mixed bag. On the positive side, he can show really good reasons (medical regulations, internship, a year of maturing) why he waited to apply. One SA does want him for swimming, and he's been in regular contact with that coach. The others, he has to make contact with, and has a short time to do so. A friend who worked on the Admissions board said nothing would come up as a red flag, but that his plan would be highly unusual (which could be seen as either good or bad, depending upon who you're talking to).

 

This is NOT the only school he's been accepted to, and has significant aid from another school (cost to attend would be the same, but the swim program is much stronger, however it's a bit further away).

 

I think if everything went bust, he would enlist and delay entering college.

I hope you have success with your asking for professional judgment. You really need to start that process now so that you have a full answer soon. I personally would not leave this part to your student and the schools will not care if parents are dealing with FA office over complicated financial situations. The medical bills are likely to be a reason for changing your profile. I think the housing allowance could go either way.

 

It is hard for me to tell based on your description if the current cost includes grant aid that makes it affordable once he earns money from working. You want to make sure that his working doesn't just make his expected contribution increase and still leave him with a deficit. His savings will be tagged as student assets and could be incorporated at 25% or more (even up to 50% ) into the expected contribution. (So your parental contribution would simply increase proportionally.)

 

If it is simply the matter that you cannot help him with room and board and tuition will be fixed coverage based on just merit scholarship and not change, that is different. His income wouldn't impact anything.

 

Have you verified that he won't need to pay for the university's health insurance? Will they accept the coverage you have? That could increase your costs up another $2-3000.

 

Does he have any straight up affordable option that he knows he can afford to attend no matter what? Did he apply to any schools where he would receive larger merit than just full-tuition? Or would he rather enlist if it came down to it? Or is competitive swimming the need that needs to be fulfilled, not scholarships? Is swimming a primary determining factor?

 

Good luck on the competition. Sounds like he has a lot of excitement going on. I think Janet's advice there is spot on. I also agree with Frances in that if you get a deferral for the scholarship that it would be pretty unethical to hold on to that while applying to the SA.

Edited February 18, 2018 by 8FillTheHeart

[LisaKinVA]

I hope you have success with your asking for professional judgment. You really need to start that process now so that you have a full answer soon. I personally would not leave this part to your student and the schools will not care if parents are dealing with FA office over complicated financial situations. The medical bills are likely to be a reason for changing your profile. I think the housing allowance could go either way.

 

It is hard for me to tell based on your description if the current cost includes grant aid that makes it affordable once he earns money from working. You want to make sure that his working doesn't just make his expected contribution increase and still leave him with a deficit. His savings will be tagged as student assets and could be incorporated at 25% or more (even up to 50% ) into the expected contribution. (So your parental contribution would simply increase proportionally.)

 

If it is simply the matter that you cannot help him with room and board and tuition will be fixed coverage based on just merit scholarship and not change, that is different. His income wouldn't impact anything.

 

Have you verified that he won't need to pay for the university's health insurance? Will they accept the coverage you have? That could increase your costs up another $2-3000.

 

Does he have any straight up affordable option that he knows he can afford to attend no matter what? Did he apply to any schools where he would receive larger merit than just full-tuition? Or would he rather enlist if it came down to it? Or is competitive swimming the need that needs to be fulfilled, not scholarships? Is swimming a primary determining factor?

 

Good luck on the competition. Sounds like he has a lot of excitement going on. I think Janet's advice there is spot on. I also agree with Frances in that if you get a deferral for the scholarship that it would be pretty unethical to hold on to that while applying to the SA.

 

We started the professional judgement route in December, although it's taken us about 6 weeks to gather all of the information (and complete this year's taxes, which they want to see).  Agree that if he defers, he should really be planning to attend THAT school.  GAP year would be different, as he'd have to reapply -- but no guarantees of anything.

 

The current cost is based solely on scholarships (academic and/or swimming), not need-based, grant-aid, loans or work-study.  I've included insurance in the fees as needing to be covered, although his insurance should be good at either school (based upon what we've been told), but I tried to go with worst-case scenarios for monetary reasons.  Our FAFSA doesn't really give us any grant aid, hence the professional judgement (with how they figure this while we're here, they say family contribution of $37,000.  Using the figure for how our income is calculated back in VA, our EFC changes to $8,000).  We've spent nearly $60,000 in medical expenses during our 4 years in Italy, and we still owe $16,000 from last year. )  One school we haven't even gone back to yet (and we need to), as all money is grant aid, and it matches our EFC exactly....lol

 

Just a ton of pressure to decide all of this now.  We were thinking we still had 6 weeks.  

[LisaKinVA]

If he doesn’t have the $ to attend without taking a gap year to work, then it sounds like declining or deferring are the only options. If he is allowed to defer and they will hold the scholarship, then it doesn’t seem ethical to me to apply to other schools during the Gap year since it seems he has promised them he would attend the following year and they are holding the scholarship for him.

 

In terms of using eligibility leading up to the trials, are you talking about the 2024 Olympic trials?

 

2020 Trials.  2024 would be unaffected, but losing a year of competition from 2019-2020 would kind of kill his chances.

[8filltheheart]

2020 Trials.  2024 would be unaffected, but losing a year of competition from 2019-2020 would kind of kill his chances.

 

Would the loss of a yr of competition be due to the deferral?  Can he still compete during a gap yr?  I don't know how any of that works, but it seems like not losing that yr is a really big deal!! and maybe a priority??

 

Will the results of the upcoming swim competition give more clarity on his chances in 2020 or is that completely unrelated?

 

Either way, I think he should definitely contact the school and tell them he needs an extension b/c of the upcoming competition bc he cannot make a decision that quickly.  

 

Is the school where he is asking for professional judgment the same school or a different school(s)?  Do they meet need?  If he gets the professional judgment to correct for housing and medical expenses will that automatically lead to enough grant money to make the school doable?  Or is it possible that you will still be gapped?

 

(Also a heads up in case he ends up with either grant or scholarship $$ exceeding tuition and QEE.  It will be taxable.  The laws are changing for 2018, so I am not as familiar with what it really looks like.  At one point, the information was 

Not over $2,550 10% of the taxable income

Over $2,550 but not over $9,150 $255 plus 24% of the excess over $2,550

Over $9,150 but not over $12,500 $1,839 plus 35% of the excess over $9,150

Over $12,500 $3,011.50 plus 37% of the excess over $12,500

But, there was discussion about whether or not students would be able to apply their $12,000 personal deduction to the amt. I have read the argument both ways and it was still debatable as to what it all meant. Finally, I stopped following it bc my ds is graduating this yr and dd's scholarship is no where near as large, and I read it sometimes takes months for them to finally clarify all of the terms in a new tax law.  I figure we'll know when we know.  But, if $$ is that tight and you are barely squeaking by in affordability, if the 12000 deduction does not apply and say he gets $8000 in grant $$, he will in turn have to pay $1563 of that in taxes.)

Edited February 18, 2018 by 8FillTheHeart

[LisaKinVA]

Would the loss of a yr of competition be due to the deferral?  Can he still compete during a gap yr?  I don't know how any of that works, but it seems like not losing that yr is a really big deal!! and maybe a priority??

 

Will the results of the upcoming swim competition give more clarity on his chances in 2020 or is that completely unrelated?

 

Either way, I think he should definitely contact the school and tell them he needs an extension b/c of the upcoming competition bc he cannot make a decision that quickly.  

 

Is the school where he is asking for professional judgment the same school or a different school(s)?  Do they meet need?  If he gets the professional judgment to correct for housing and medical expenses will that automatically lead to enough grant money to make the school doable?  Or is it possible that you will still be gapped?

 

(Also a heads up in case he ends up with either grant or scholarship $$ exceeding tuition and QEE.  It will be taxable.  The laws are changing for 2018, so I am not as familiar with what it really looks like.  At one point, the information was 

Not over $2,550 10% of the taxable income

Over $2,550 but not over $9,150 $255 plus 24% of the excess over $2,550

Over $9,150 but not over $12,500 $1,839 plus 35% of the excess over $9,150

Over $12,500 $3,011.50 plus 37% of the excess over $12,500

But, there was discussion about whether or not students would be able to apply their $12,000 personal deduction to the amt. I have read the argument both ways and it was still debatable as to what it all meant. Finally, I stopped following it bc my ds is graduating this yr and dd's scholarship is no where near as large, and I read it sometimes takes months for them to finally clarify all of the terms in a new tax law.  I figure we'll know when we know.  But, if $$ is that tight and you are barely squeaking by in affordability, if the 12000 deduction does not apply and say he gets $8000 in grant $$, he will in turn have to pay $1563 of that in taxes.)

 

If he went to School this fall, and competes for that school, most likely he won't be allowed to transfer to a different school in fall of 2019 without being red-shirted a season (train, but not compete for the school -- there are circumstances that can be waived, but we need to actually speak to someone with more knowledge on the subject).  If he takes the gap year, he can still compete in our league here and retain all of his NCAA eligibility.

 

His current trajectory would have him competitive for trials in 2020. Actually making it... well, competition is stiff.  Coaches at three of the schools (one he's accepted to, with solid academic, swimming, and grant aid, and 2 of the service academies) have programs that would get him there.  The one he's under pressure to accept does not.  He would attend as their fastest swimmer on the squad just walking through the door.  I've told him that the biggest factor in reaching his goals is HIM, he can grow and achieve wherever he is (but, it would be easier if he were training with swimmers who had similar goals and with coaches who had (a) been to the Olympics themselves (b) coached Olympians or at least © coached swimmers to trials.  When you're the top swimmer in a program and a conference, you have to be incredibly self-motivated and driven to go way above the pack, which can get exhausting (not impossible, but there is a reason swimmers like training with the best competition they can).

 

We aren't in any danger of getting too much aid (at this point).  There is another major scholarship award that could be used for any school that he attends, but we won't find out about that one until June.  Honestly, his chances at that one are also pretty good.  The average award would nearly put him at our "magic number"

 

We are asking for judgments at 3 Universities.  The other schools he applied to, he no longer is interested in attending.  One of them is the school in question.

 

I've been speaking with my Navy friends all over the world the last couple of days as well.  Some have worked on the admissions boards, some haven't.  Getting some good food for thought I've passed onto LEGOManiac.  I let him chew on it, and then we talk a bit.

 

It will be Tuesday before we can speak to anyone at the college/financial aid office.  In the meantime, I'm just trying to help him understand that (a) not taking THIS scholarship only means a "no" to this school. All of the choices he has are GOOD choices.  There isn't a bad one really in the bunch.  (b) if deep down you feel like you would be happy at this school, and it's where you want to go, say yes. We can work on extra scholarships and finances for the next 6 months.  © if your feelings have changed, and you really, really want to go to the service academy, and become a Naval Officer, say "no" and go after that dream with everything you have.  

[8filltheheart]

Sounds like excellent advice.   :thumbup:  Good luck to him!!  What an exciting time in his life!!

[katilac]

One thing to check into: I know that colleges cannot force a decision before May 1; it's called decision day for a reason. I also know that they can request or require students to 'accept' academic scholarships before then, but that this does NOT equal a decision to attend the school. It is a placeholder, more or less. Both of my kids accepted scholarships from multiple schools, at the schools' request. So,wouldn't the rule against forcing an early decision hold true for athletic scholarships as well? 

 

I think that your son could likely accept the scholarship, and still change his mind before May 1. 

 

 

I think that it is much less likely that he can defer the scholarship, simply because athletic performance is more changeable and reliant on constant practice than academic performance. 

 

 

 

[LisaKinVA]

One thing to check into: I know that colleges cannot force a decision before May 1; it's called decision day for a reason. I also know that they can request or require students to 'accept' academic scholarships before then, but that this does NOT equal a decision to attend the school. It is a placeholder, more or less. Both of my kids accepted scholarships from multiple schools, at the schools' request. So,wouldn't the rule against forcing an early decision hold true for athletic scholarships as well? 

 

I think that your son could likely accept the scholarship, and still change his mind before May 1. 

 

 

I think that it is much less likely that he can defer the scholarship, simply because athletic performance is more changeable and reliant on constant practice than academic performance. 

 

Clarification -- this is an academic scholarship (competitive merit scholarship).  This school is D3, so no money related to swimming. His other choices are D3, D2 and D1 schools, with scholarship swimming money related to the D2 schools, but it's the smaller scholarship of what he's been offered (money in swimming tends to go heavily to girls).  One D2 school is all grant aid, another D2 is 60% Merit Scholarship, 20% swimming and 10% grant.  The D1 schools would be free to attend, not tied to swimming performance at all.

 

He would be required to accept the academic scholarship by committing to the school (paying the $200 deposit).  He doesn't have to sign for swimming until April (which is why we thought we had more time).

[Lanny]

One thing to check into: I know that colleges cannot force a decision before May 1; it's called decision day for a reason. I also know that they can request or require students to 'accept' academic scholarships before then, but that this does NOT equal a decision to attend the school. It is a placeholder, more or less. Both of my kids accepted scholarships from multiple schools, at the schools' request. So,wouldn't the rule against forcing an early decision hold true for athletic scholarships as well? 

 

I think that your son could likely accept the scholarship, and still change his mind before May 1. 

 

 

I think that it is much less likely that he can defer the scholarship, simply because athletic performance is more changeable and reliant on constant practice than academic performance. 

 

+1 and Amen.  Yes, there is another thread I read this morning, about someone whose DC received notification of Financial Aid and the school wants a decision about the Financial Aid, accept or decline,  in the next 2 weeks. There is a "Drop Dead" date of May 1st, for the actual decision about whether or not to attend a school, as I understand from that other thread. I am planning to tell my DD about this, as she will be looking at these offers, this time next year. One can accept the Financial Aid and then if they decide not to attend the school before May 1st, notify the school they are going to attend another school.

 

OP there is NO guarantee that your DS will be accepted into a Service Academy. That would be a gamble and might or might not happen for him. Hopefully, it would happen, but if not...

[LisaKinVA]

+1 and Amen.  Yes, there is another thread I read this morning, about someone whose DC received notification of Financial Aid and the school wants a decision about the Financial Aid, accept or decline,  in the next 2 weeks. There is a "Drop Dead" date of May 1st, for the actual decision about whether or not to attend a school, as I understand from that other thread. I am planning to tell my DD about this, as she will be looking at these offers, this time next year. One can accept the Financial Aid and then if they decide not to attend the school before May 1st, notify the school they are going to attend another school.

 

OP there is NO guarantee that your DS will be accepted into a Service Academy. That would be a gamble and might or might not happen for him. Hopefully, it would happen, but if not...

 

This college does not subscribe to the "Candidate's Reply Date Agreement" -- so, in fact, they *can* require a commitment to the school for the scholarship.  

 

And yes, I understand that there is no guarantee of being accepted into a Service Academy, I simply said he should go for it, if that is what he truly wanted.  I haven't ever indicated that we would either limit his applications to SA, or only work on that route.  As I mentioned previously, he has solid offers from other schools.  We just didn't go down the SA route initially, mostly due to the now resolved health issue.  We've also looked into ROTC (although he didn't apply for the same reasons).