He's such a nice looking young man (FL. school shooting)

[leeannpal]

I just got off the phone with my mom. We were talking about the school shooting here in Florida. I'm in central Florida, but i work for a virtual school, and we had students at the school. We've been told we can't contact any of our Broward Co. students for now. Anyway, my mom made the remark that he was such a nice looking, clean cut guy. She went on to say that it was such a shame because he didn't look like a hoodlum(her word) and wasn't from a "foreign country" (also her words). I can't say I am shocked, because my parents are both racist and have clear ideas about what a criminal should look like :huh: Has anyone else heard something like this after a tragedy? 

[unsinkable]

He looks "syndromy" to me. Maybe FAS or something unknown. There is an unkind term used sometimes in medicine and special education...FLK. Funny Looking Kid...something doesn't look right, and is usually accompanied by learning and/or growth issues.

 

My DD thinks his features resemble Jesse Miskelley (West Memphis Three) who supposedly had learning issues.

[SKL]

I thought he looked scared and confused and sad.

 

 

[Amira]

Yes, I certainly hear people defend white men as “nice-looking†after they commit horrible crimes.

 

Somehow, being a decent person has nothing to do with the color of your skin or where you were born or your hairstyle and clothing choices. But we keep pretending it does.

[Crimson Wife]

He looks "syndromy" to me. Maybe FAS or something unknown. There is an unkind term used sometimes in medicine and special education...FLK. Funny Looking Kid...something doesn't look right, and is usually accompanied by learning and/or growth issues.

 

My DD thinks his features resemble Jesse Miskelley (West Memphis Three) who supposedly had learning issues.

 

The news said he was adopted so it wouldn't surprise me if there were some sort of prenatal substance exposure. Early trauma might be a factor as well. Then his adoptive parents died, including in November for the mom.

 

We need much better mental health treatment so that troubled individuals are able to get help before they wind up becoming a danger to themselves and others.

[Selkie]

I've only seen a couple pictures, but immediately thought something looked "off" about him. In one school picture, his eyes and facial expression remind me of the Sandy Hook shooter.

[Katy]

Can you guys give me some links for the photos and information above?  I'm interested, but I and half the people in the house have the flu, so I don't have the energy to do my usual research.  I haven't seen close photos and didn't realize there was a hx of adoption.

[Crimson Wife]

 I’m a little sensitive to the FLK thing because obviously I have a kid with visible disabilities, including microcephaly, and plenty of chromosomal cuties also get pidgeonholed with this even though their particular issues don’t lead to changes in aggression or social cues. Sigh. But it’s a thing because it’s usually true.

 

Ditto, though my SN child's facial feature atypicality is more subtle. But when we got the results of the whole exome sequencing and I Googled the name of her syndrome, it struck me immediately how the other patients have a similar "look" to their faces. Our neurologist said the same thing.

 

She's not aggressive and even if she did lash out, her executive functioning weaknesses would mean it would be hitting/kicking/biting or maybe throwing something at someone rather than plotting and carrying out a shooting/bombing/driving into a crowd/etc.

 

[Katy]

Okay, the Sun Sentinel said he was diagnosed with autism.  http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/parkland/florida-school-shooting/fl-school-shooting-cruz-20180214-story.html

 

And I know it says they were adopted from birth, but since one was older than the other, I bet one was neglected due to drug abuse and the second CPS had seized at birth due to drug abuse.  He does have that characteristic look of drug and alcohol abuse during pregnancy. One of our kids therapists called it "elfish."

[nixpix5]

Okay, the Sun Sentinel said he was diagnosed with autism. http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/parkland/florida-school-shooting/fl-school-shooting-cruz-20180214-story.html

 

And I know it says they were adopted from birth, but since one was older than the other, I bet one was neglected due to drug abuse and the second CPS had seized at birth due to drug abuse. He does have that characteristic look of drug and alcohol abuse during pregnancy. One of our kids therapists called it "elfish."

My exact thoughts. I could have written this.

[Crimson Wife]

 BUT, for the tiny, tiny minority that do have violence issues, there has to be more support in place. It sounds in this case like the mother had her hands full while alive. Cops had been there multiple times from what I read earlier today. And I am making an assumption that there were clear, diagnosable issues, and maybe that wasn't the case..... But there has to be scaffolding and support nets in place long, long before these young men hit adolescence. This doesn't happen overnight. 

 

It's hard to get support even for children with a diagnosis, good private insurance coverage, and eligibility for Dept. of Developmental Disabilities services. We're having some issues with my DD's medication cocktail and I want her to see a pediatric psychiatrist rather than continuing to have the neurologist do medication management. If I want to put her in the inpatient program at the local hospital for the minimum 4 days, then I can get her seen. But that would be killing a fly with a cannon.

 

[Katy]

My exact thoughts. I could have written this.

 

I wonder what percentage of violent men whose crimes are blamed on the spectrum are also drug or alcohol affected. I bet there's a wide overlap, and I bet bioparents untreated genetic mental health issues are rarely factored in either.  Not that I would ever take back an adoption of a drug effected child, it's worth the risk, but the information is important.

 

We have a bio nephew (maybe two, one hasn't been diagnosed) on the spectrum and I don't feel like I would ever have to worry about.  But we've also been asked to take foster kids who were diagnosed, and having had their siblings stay with us, and having met them, I always felt like in their case the diagnosis wasn't as accurate as attachment disorders and... what's the term they use for probable future psychopaths?  "Cold, calculating, and lacking empathy," or something like that.

 

I wonder what percentage of autism diagnoses are really attachment disorder issues.

[unsinkable]

I wonder what percentage of violent men whose crimes are blamed on the spectrum are also drug or alcohol affected. I bet there's a wide overlap, and I bet bioparents untreated genetic mental health issues are rarely factored in either. Not that I would ever take back an adoption of a drug effected child, it's worth the risk, but the information is important.

 

We have a bio nephew (maybe two, one hasn't been diagnosed) on the spectrum and I don't feel like I would ever have to worry about. But we've also been asked to take foster kids who were diagnosed, and having had their siblings stay with us, and having met them, I always felt like in their case the diagnosis wasn't as accurate as attachment disorders and... what's the term they use for probable future psychopaths? "Cold, calculating, and lacking empathy," or something like that.

 

I wonder what percentage of autism diagnoses are really attachment disorder issues.

"Samantha was diagnosed with conduct disorder with callous and unemotional traits. She had all the characteristics of a budding psychopath."

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/06/when-your-child-is-a-psychopath/524502/

[Katy]

"Samantha was diagnosed with conduct disorder with callous and unemotional traits. She had all the characteristics of a budding psychopath."

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/06/when-your-child-is-a-psychopath/524502/

 

Yes!  Callous and unemotional.  Thank you. 

 

I think it's politically more acceptable to diagnose a child that seems to lack empathy and who perhaps has some developmental delays due to abuse with autism than it is with something that has a 50% correlation with psychopathy.  And perhaps there are benefits to it in general - automatic funding for more therapy or whatever, but later, when crimes happen and the diagnosis is all you hear about on the news... perhaps it does more damage than good.

 

I wonder how you could even get the data to study something like that.

[Selkie]

I just read this book and found it fascinating:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Fear-Factor-Altruists-Psychopaths-Between/dp/1541697197/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1518725418&sr=8-2&keywords=the+fear+factor

 

The author is a researcher who has studied young psychopaths.

[Ottakee]

Mental health services are at a crisis. One of my students had to wait 12 months for an evaluation at CMH. Psychiatrist that work with kids are rare and even harder to find one that understands prenatal drug/alcohol exposure and trauma. Then finding and funding counseling, respite, residential programs, etc are nearly impossible.

 

This is a huge discussion on our foster/adopt/ special needs boards. Parents all fear that their child may do something like this but there is no help until something bad happens.

[unsinkable]

I’ve never heard the acronym, ’flk’. Is it called ’flk’ or actually pronounced a certain way?

I've only heard it pronounced by saying each letter: "Eff. El. Kay."

[Garga]

He looks "syndromy" to me. Maybe FAS or something unknown. There is an unkind term used sometimes in medicine and special education...FLK. Funny Looking Kid...something doesn't look right, and is usually accompanied by learning and/or growth issues.

 

My DD thinks his features resemble Jesse Miskelley (West Memphis Three) who supposedly had learning issues.

 

I thought the same thing.  I don't have any special training, but I thought that the way his eyes were shaped and his ears, that he looked the teensiest bit like someone with Down Syndrome...but not quite.  I wondered if there was something genetically wrong with him.

 

Okay, the Sun Sentinel said he was diagnosed with autism.  http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/parkland/florida-school-shooting/fl-school-shooting-cruz-20180214-story.html

 

And I know it says they were adopted from birth, but since one was older than the other, I bet one was neglected due to drug abuse and the second CPS had seized at birth due to drug abuse.  He does have that characteristic look of drug and alcohol abuse during pregnancy. One of our kids therapists called it "elfish."

 

I didn't know there was a look for drug and alcohol abuse, but he certainly looks elfish in the picture I saw of him that was straight on toward the camera.

[catz]

I thought the same thing. I don't have any special training, but I thought that the way his eyes were shaped and his ears, that he looked the teensiest bit like someone with Down Syndrome...but not quite. I wondered if there was something genetically wrong with him.

 

 

I didn't know there was a look for drug and alcohol abuse, but he certainly looks elfish in the picture I saw of him that was straight on toward the camera.

He looks a lot like a kid I know who has Fragile X syndrome.

 

I really think both health and mental health care should be a big part of the discussion.

[Katy]

Mental health services are at a crisis. One of my students had to wait 12 months for an evaluation at CMH. Psychiatrist that work with kids are rare and even harder to find one that understands prenatal drug/alcohol exposure and trauma. Then finding and funding counseling, respite, residential programs, etc are nearly impossible.

 

This is a huge discussion on our foster/adopt/ special needs boards. Parents all fear that their child may do something like this but there is no help until something bad happens.

 

I didn't realize there was a foster adopt special needs board.  Is that here?  Can you add me or link it?

[shawthorne44]

Only a racist could look at one of the photos in the news and say "He's such a nice looking young man."     

[Guest]

He looks "syndromy" to me. Maybe FAS or something unknown. There is an unkind term used sometimes in medicine and special education...FLK. Funny Looking Kid...something doesn't look right, and is usually accompanied by learning and/or growth issues.

 

My DD thinks his features resemble Jesse Miskelley (West Memphis Three) who supposedly had learning issues.

Well, on the news this morning, there was his picture with the caption beneath “The Face of Evil?†I was thinking how much mental illness can cause anti-social behavior (“evil†acts). He looks “syndromy†to me, too. Looking at the picture with that caption about “Evil†made me think there is a lot of overlap on brain and mental health an “evil†acts.

 

It’s like how, in Biblical times, people who had bizarre behaviors were “demon possessed.†I wonder how many were mentally ill. (Rhetorically, because my wild guess is: all of them.)

[SKL]

Only a racist could look at one of the photos in the news and say "He's such a nice looking young man."     

 

To be fair, I have said that about some black offenders.  Sometimes it is striking how an offender can have an angel face (of any color) despite having such demonic thoughts inside.

 

I didn't think this shooter had an angel face, but maybe intellectually innocent in some of the photos (not all of them). 

 

I do wonder what made granny say he doesn't look foreign.  I had the impression he might be of non-.Western-European descent.  Then learning his first name's spelling and that he was an adoptee supported the possibility.  I don't know his actual heritage, just musing.

[TravelingChris]

"Samantha was diagnosed with conduct disorder with callous and unemotional traits. She had all the characteristics of a budding psychopath."

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/06/when-your-child-is-a-psychopath/524502/

 

Now these are the programs we should have funding for.  I never heard about them before but that program in WI is such a wonderful program.  And I think we need to really talk about just another way that our mental health system is failing.  If there were more inpatient programs for these children with the appropriate treatment model as shown by the WI program, maybe more psychologists and psychiatrists would be willing to diagnose these kids accurately.  And as the new article says, more of these people were made by circumstances but a number of them are born that way from the start.  Whether it is your own bio kid or a kid you adopted, those parents of the kids with inborn problems, whether genetic or FAS or drug caused or whatever, could get help for those kids.  As the article says, our prisons are filled with psychopaths which is what these kids turn into without treatment and sometimes even with.  

 

 

As to the OP, I can't even get my head around those comments. First of all, that guy has a strange look as others have said.  But even if he looked totally normal, so what?  Ted Bundy was a good looking dude which is one reason that women got into his car with him. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

I think it's not strange to be surprised by the looks of someone who does something terrible.  We might imagine some monster looking creature because what human could do that.  We judge a lot of things by their looks whether we admit to it or not.

 

 

[unsinkable]

Can you guys give me some links for the photos and information above? I'm interested, but I and half the people in the house have the flu, so I don't have the energy to do my usual research. I haven't seen close photos and didn't realize there was a hx of adoption.

I'm not sure what links you want but I'm sorry you guys have the flu.

 

:-(

[foxbridgeacademy]

Well, I looked at his picture and thought, "He still looks like a teen/kid."

 

Such a life wasted. Society failed him, and by extension, society failed 17 dead victims.

This, absolutely without a doubt in my mind I agree.

[unsinkable]

If anyone wants to see a heartbreaking instance where I think "syndromy," environment, and psychopathy combined to a horrific end ( the murder of a 4 yo little boy by a 13 yo boy), here is an article about Eric Smith. Warning: It is an awful, horrible crime.

 

http://murderpedia.org/male.S/s/smith-eric-m.htm

[shawthorne44]

To be fair, I have said that about some black offenders.  Sometimes it is striking how an offender can have an angel face (of any color) despite having such demonic thoughts inside.

 

I didn't think this shooter had an angel face, but maybe intellectually innocent in some of the photos (not all of them). 

 

I do wonder what made granny say he doesn't look foreign.  I had the impression he might be of non-.Western-European descent.  Then learning his first name's spelling and that he was an adoptee supported the possibility.  I don't know his actual heritage, just musing.

 

Oh, yes, I can totally see how  someone could have an angelic face and then someone would say that.   

 

But, this person????   Totally not angelic.   If you were trying to pick the psychopath from a photo lineup of strangers (not that one would) , vast majority of people would pick this person.  

[Garga]

 

 

I do wonder what made granny say he doesn't look foreign.  I had the impression he might be of non-.Western-European descent.  Then learning his first name's spelling and that he was an adoptee supported the possibility.  I don't know his actual heritage, just musing.

 

On some comment sections on FB, people were saying he's hispanic.  Maybe Granny was reading those same comments and thought he was from South America somewhere.

[Garga]

Can you guys give me some links for the photos and information above?  I'm interested, but I and half the people in the house have the flu, so I don't have the energy to do my usual research.  I haven't seen close photos and didn't realize there was a hx of adoption.

 

This article has one.  http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/parkland/florida-school-shooting/fl-school-shooting-cruz-20180214-story.html

[Crimson Wife]

On some comment sections on FB, people were saying he's hispanic.  Maybe Granny was reading those same comments and thought he was from South America somewhere.

 

I presume "Cruz" is the adoptive parents' surname. "Nikolas" to me sounds Eastern European or maybe Greek. Though if he was adopted at birth, the adoptive parents could have given it to him.

 

[Katy]

I just got a new book called Born Broken about adopting a child with FASD & potentially prenatal drugs as well. I haven't read enough of it yet to know if I recommend it, but this story is reminding me of it.

[Upennmama]

Okay, the Sun Sentinel said he was diagnosed with autism. http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/parkland/florida-school-shooting/fl-school-shooting-cruz-20180214-story.html

 

And I know it says they were adopted from birth, but since one was older than the other, I bet one was neglected due to drug abuse and the second CPS had seized at birth due to drug abuse. He does have that characteristic look of drug and alcohol abuse during pregnancy. One of our kids therapists called it "elfish."

As an adoptive parent, I think it’s important that we be careful not to decide, simply based on the fact of someone being adopted, that we ca assume there’s a whole history of drug exposure, etc. it’s discriminatory towards adopted people and offensive.

[Katy]

As an adoptive parent, I think it’s important that we be careful not to decide, simply based on the fact of someone being adopted, that we ca assume there’s a whole history of drug exposure, etc. it’s discriminatory towards adopted people and offensive.

 

I don't think any of us went there based on being adopted as much as 1) the characteristic elfin appearance we've seen in our own adopted kids and pointed out as typical of NAS by their therapists, and 2) the timing of the brothers being adopted together, one as an infant and one as slightly older, which frequently occurs when the younger child is born with NAS symptoms.

[kbutton]

As an adoptive parent, I think it’s important that we be careful not to decide, simply based on the fact of someone being adopted, that we ca assume there’s a whole history of drug exposure, etc. it’s discriminatory towards adopted people and offensive.

 

This whole thread is making me twitchy. 

 

For starters, I am stunned that no one is really discussing how craptastic it is that so many of these kids were bullied relentlessly by peers. That is something adults frequently can do something about and DON'T. 

 

The proper way to refer to a FLK is to say that they have dysmorphic features. MANY syndromes that include dysmorphic features don't include any mental or cognitive differences at all. Some combinations of dysmorphic features tend to make people attractive (have you really looked at those big-eyed Disney princesses?). 

 

https://positiveexposure.org/

 

Take a look at some of the people on this website. This photography group purposefully looks for the beauty in people who don't match what is typical. FWIW, my son has one of the syndromes featured on that website, and there are no cognitive, behavioral, or mental issues associated with his condition. But I guess he looks "syndromy," FWIW. 

 

I think what happened is horrendous, and I can't imagine what it would be like to have to parent a child who is bent that way, but something about this thread is making me seriously uncomfortable.

 

I'm with Ottakee in saying we fail a lot of kids. Even kids who have all kinds of parent advocacy can't always get what they need--we define all kinds of kids right out of existence in terms of services--too functional for this, not functional enough for that. And oftentimes that's just simple stuff like IQ, not even necessarily kids who are abused, traumatized, etc. 

 

Focusing on what these kids look like seems like a big trail to nowhere except more stigma and bullying vs. more advocacy. 

[kbutton]

FWIW, I am fine with discussing psychopathy, etc., it's just something about the preoccupation with looks and with brain issues that don't have to lead to psychopathy that I'm taking issue with. 

 

I guess we're past disfigured and strange-looking people playing villains in movies (mostly), but we're still fascinated with it on some real life level...

Edited February 16, 2018 by kbutton

[unsinkable]

This whole thread is making me twitchy.

 

For starters, I am stunned that no one is really discussing how craptastic it is that so many of these kids were bullied relentlessly by peers. That is something adults frequently can do something about and DON'T.

 

The proper way to refer to a FLK is to say that they have dysmorphic features. MANY syndromes that include dysmorphic features don't include any mental or cognitive differences at all. Some combinations of dysmorphic features tend to make people attractive (have you really looked at those big-eyed Disney princesses?).

 

https://positiveexposure.org/

 

Take a look at some of the people on this website. This photography group purposefully looks for the beauty in people who don't match what is typical. FWIW, my son has one of the syndromes featured on that website, and there are no cognitive, behavioral, or mental issues associated with his condition. But I guess he looks "syndromy," FWIW.

 

I think what happened is horrendous, and I can't imagine what it would be like to have to parent a child who is bent that way, but something about this thread is making me seriously uncomfortable.

 

I'm with Ottakee in saying we fail a lot of kids. Even kids who have all kinds of parent advocacy can't always get what they need--we define all kinds of kids right out of existence in terms of services--too functional for this, not functional enough for that. And oftentimes that's just simple stuff like IQ, not even necessarily kids who are abused, traumatized, etc.

 

Focusing on what these kids look like seems like a big trail to nowhere except more stigma and bullying vs. more advocacy.

 

Edited February 18, 2018 by emzhengjiu
Personal attack

[rose]

 

 

https://positiveexposure.org/

 

Take a look at some of the people on this website. This photography group purposefully looks for the beauty in people who don't match what is typical.

What a neat website. I just spend some time browsing through their photos. What beautiful people! I have a brother that has dysmorphic characteristics but is only diagnosed at the moment with severe autism. He is one of my favourite people in the world. This world has so little respect and appreciation for the people that are out of the ordinary, maybe it's fear, but they don't know what they're missing. Disabled and "dysmorphic" people are some of the special variations that the Lord has blessed this world with. Sadly, most people just don't see what a blessing they are.

[MotherGoose]

He looks "syndromy" to me. Maybe FAS or something unknown. There is an unkind term used sometimes in medicine and special education...FLK. Funny Looking Kid...something doesn't look right, and is usually accompanied by learning and/or growth issues.

 

My DD thinks his features resemble Jesse Miskelley (West Memphis Three) who supposedly had learning issues.

I agree, just looked at a picture of him. I used to work in the mental health/social work field and learned to recognize the FLK thing too. Often there would be something that wasn't just quite right, and you might not have been able to put a diagnosis on it right away, but there was some problem behaviorally that brought them to your attention, and then you started thinking there was more going on than a simple behavior problem. He has that look.

 

ETA see below for edit I quoted myself somehow.

Edited February 16, 2018 by MotherGoose

[MotherGoose]

I agree, just looked at a picture of him. I used to work in the mental health/social work field and learned to recognize the FLK thing too. Often there would be something that wasn't just quite right, and you might not have been able to put a diagnosis on it right away, but there was some problem behaviorally that brought them to your attention, and then you started thinking there was more going on than a simple behavior problem. He has that look.

ETA obviously it isn't always true, and there are certainly some kids who have unusual features that are perfectly normal. It's not a beauty contest and certainly some of the most evil people in the world are physically very attractive. It's just something people who have worked in the field notice as a red flag for further investigation.

[Katy]

ETA obviously it isn't always true, and there are certainly some kids who have unusual features that are perfectly normal. It's not a beauty contest and certainly some of the most evil people in the world are physically very attractive. It's just something people who have worked in the field notice as a red flag for further investigation.

 

Exactly.  I'm not at all saying any kid that has unusual features is bad. Including my own. I am saying that certain kinds of prenatal substance abuse can and do lead to specific and known facial characteristics and specific kinds of brain damage. To my mind this makes this kid less morally culpable and gives us as a society knowledge that can help prevent these situations in the future.

 

I'm apparently not the only person to wonder about this.  The director of FASCETS has been quoted in a couple of articles that he has characteristics of prenatal exposure.  And apparently there was a book about this called The Fatal Link that explores this very connection in earlier cases.

[Pam in CT]

re mental health and other scaffolding to "catch kids before they fall"

I worry about this. People are looking everywhere for scapegoats right now. White boys. FAS kids. Autistic kids. Kids who take ADHD meds. I just feel like there is so much finger pointing, and kids dealing with damage- be it environmental or chromosomal or whatever- as well as their families, have enough to deal with. They and their parents don't need extra paranoia randomly laid upon them, or to have to prove a negative rather than see this thing as the exception rather than the rule. 

 

BUT, for the tiny, tiny minority that do have violence issues, there has to be more support in place. It sounds in this case like the mother had her hands full while alive. Cops had been there multiple times from what I read earlier today. And I am making an assumption that there were clear, diagnosable issues, and maybe that wasn't the case..... But there has to be scaffolding and support nets in place long, long before these young men hit adolescence. This doesn't happen overnight. 

Yes.

 

And -- this is on the one hand obvious, but on the other, not -- it's not like there's a magic arrow that with perfect prophecy points to the "tiny, tiny minority" that turns out in hindsight to have violence issues that will point them to mass murder, so "we" can assign mental health and other scaffolding narrowly to THEM and THEIR PARENTS prospectively.

 

 

The insufficiency of mental health access and other scaffolding is a public health issue, as surely as influenza.  As there's no crystal ball method to identify before the fact the people who are prone toward mass violence and limit resources only to them -- not that such limitation would be either productive or ethical anyway -- the issues of mental health service availability in all regions, service quality, insurance etc need to be addressed for society as a whole...

 

Mental health services are at a crisis. One of my students had to wait 12 months for an evaluation at CMH. Psychiatrist that work with kids are rare and even harder to find one that understands prenatal drug/alcohol exposure and trauma. Then finding and funding counseling, respite, residential programs, etc are nearly impossible.

This is a huge discussion on our foster/adopt/ special needs boards. Parents all fear that their child may do something like this but there is no help until something bad happens.

 

Now these are the programs we should have funding for.  I never heard about them before but that program in WI is such a wonderful program.  And I think we need to really talk about just another way that our mental health system is failing.  If there were more inpatient programs for these children with the appropriate treatment model as shown by the WI program, maybe more psychologists and psychiatrists would be willing to diagnose these kids accurately.  And as the new article says, more of these people were made by circumstances but a number of them are born that way from the start.  Whether it is your own bio kid or a kid you adopted, those parents of the kids with inborn problems, whether genetic or FAS or drug caused or whatever, could get help for those kids. 

 

______

 

As the article says, our prisons are filled with psychopaths which is what these kids turn into without treatment and sometimes even with.  

...

 

... with the primary objective of helping *all* kids to achieve their potential as healthy and productive members of society ...

 

_________

 

... and the reduction of mass violence and psychopaths in prison as a very worthy, but secondary objective.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I just read this book and found it fascinating:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Fear-Factor-Altruists-Psychopaths-Between/dp/1541697197/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1518725418&sr=8-2&keywords=the+fear+factor

 

The author is a researcher who has studied young psychopaths.

 

Thanks for this recommendation.

[gardenmom5]

I just got off the phone with my mom. We were talking about the school shooting here in Florida. I'm in central Florida, but i work for a virtual school, and we had students at the school. We've been told we can't contact any of our Broward Co. students for now. Anyway, my mom made the remark that he was such a nice looking, clean cut guy. She went on to say that it was such a shame because he didn't look like a hoodlum(her word) and wasn't from a "foreign country" (also her words). I can't say I am shocked, because my parents are both racist and have clear ideas about what a criminal should look like :huh: Has anyone else heard something like this after a tragedy? 

 

so was ted bundy.

 

I haven't heard anything like that.  

[Sandwalker]

I agree, the first thing i thought when i saw his photo was syndromey. It has to do with the low set ears and eyes wide set, I think.

[umsami]

Usually I hear that "such a nice boy/man" regarding men who end up killing their entire families in domestic violence incidents.

 

"John was such a good father, such a nice neighbor."  (Who happened to murder his three young kids and wife....so no, not really.)

 

1) Yes, our mental health system is completely broken in this country.  i have zero expectations for it to change.  Having said that, there really are not a lot of good treatments out there for conduct disorder (progression is usually ODD....conduct disorder....antisocial personality disorder).  So what does that mean? Institutionalizing people with it?? At least dinging them from owning firearms?? ????

 

2) Yes, usually you can't get help unless something horrible has already happened.  Prevention is basically nonexistent.  

 

3) We really care very little for our kids in this country once they are born.  I think we would need an entire culture shift to really have big change.

 

 

Finally, I cannot help but remember that these discussions about mental health issues only occur regarding white perps.  That itself is a big issue/problem.   Also, laws would need to change.  People who plan terrorist attacks (and are Muslim--thus usually charged with supporting a foreign terrorist org) can be imprisoned just for the thought, basically.   Even if they change their mind.   Not sure I agree with that, but I also wonder with somebody who is non-supporting ISIS or whatever, and is quite vocal about planning an attack as this man was, should they be able to be arrested/imprisoned as well?

 

 

[maize]

Usually I hear that "such a nice boy/man" regarding men who end up killing their entire families in domestic violence incidents.

 

"John was such a good father, such a nice neighbor." (Who happened to murder his three young kids and wife....so no, not really.)

 

1) Yes, our mental health system is completely broken in this country. i have zero expectations for it to change. Having said that, there really are not a lot of good treatments out there for conduct disorder (progression is usually ODD....conduct disorder....antisocial personality disorder). So what does that mean? Institutionalizing people with it?? At least dinging them from owning firearms?? ????

 

2) Yes, usually you can't get help unless something horrible has already happened. Prevention is basically nonexistent.

 

3) We really care very little for our kids in this country once they are born. I think we would need an entire culture shift to really have big change.

 

 

Finally, I cannot help but remember that these discussions about mental health issues only occur regarding white perps. That itself is a big issue/problem. Also, laws would need to change. People who plan terrorist attacks (and are Muslim--thus usually charged with supporting a foreign terrorist org) can be imprisoned just for the thought, basically. Even if they change their mind. Not sure I agree with that, but I also wonder with somebody who is non-supporting ISIS or whatever, and is quite vocal about planning an attack as this man was, should they be able to be arrested/imprisoned as well?

I wonder...

 

If the facebook threat this guy posted about being a professional school shooter had included an Islamic terrorist element, would the FBI have made a bigger effort to track him down and stop him?

 

Certainly there are more robust laws in place for such a scenario.

[Pam in CT]

...

 

3) We really care very little for our kids in this country once they are born.  I think we would need an entire culture shift to really have big change.

 

 

 

The more exposure I have to other nations and cultures, and how children are invested in through public policy in health care and preK-university education, inter-generational family sacrifice and and savings and care, and just how they're cherished in restaurants and movie theaters and places of worship... the more striking it is.

 

At a rhetorical level, we're all about families.  The policies and cultural family practices don't match the words.

[maize]

The more exposure I have to other nations and cultures, and how children are invested in through public policy in health care and preK-university education, inter-generational family sacrifice and and savings and care, and just how they're cherished in restaurants and movie theaters and places of worship... the more striking it is.

 

At a rhetorical level, we're all about families. The policies and cultural family practices don't match the words.

I'm not sure which cultures you are highlighting here but this has not been my actual experience in other countries.

 

Yes some places get some things more right than us, they also often get some things more wrong.

 

I agree with you that we play a lot of lip service to children and families that is just that, while in fact our policies and culture often promote adult selfishness.

 

But no I haven't seen other cultures being consistently more child supportive.

 

Which makes me sad.

[BlsdMama]

I just got off the phone with my mom. We were talking about the school shooting here in Florida. I'm in central Florida, but i work for a virtual school, and we had students at the school. We've been told we can't contact any of our Broward Co. students for now. Anyway, my mom made the remark that he was such a nice looking, clean cut guy. She went on to say that it was such a shame because he didn't look like a hoodlum(her word) and wasn't from a "foreign country" (also her words). I can't say I am shocked, because my parents are both racist and have clear ideas about what a criminal should look like :huh: Has anyone else heard something like this after a tragedy? 

 

 

Inside, I think all of us want evil to be readily recognizable.  :(