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College App Process Hard on Homeschoolers?


amathis229
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This article showed up in my Google news feed. It reflects the opinion of a professor at Appalachian State who also happens to be a homeschool parent. 

 

From the article:

 

"Unfortunately, the current application process — the Common App in particular — makes it more difficult to match students with institutions than it should, unnecessarily lowering the number of homeschoolers who attend college."

 

"One problem is that the common application asks for information that isn’t pertinent to homeschooled students, such as class rank. More important, the app does not ask about the student’s actual learning. "

"Another barrier is that the common app calls for recommendations from school guidance counselors — which homeschooled students don’t have, of course."

 

This was not our personal experience.  It was a difficult process, but I felt it was due to my unfamiliarity with the system.  Acting as my student's counselor gave me ample opportunity to detail his "actual learning.' More so, I dare say, than a traditional recommendation. I dunno - I kind of walked away from the experience feeling like SAT/ACT scores/GPA were all some of the colleges were looking at anyways.

 

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The home schooled students do have a guidance counselor : the parent. Who can write a very detailed letter because she knows the student well.

Also, there is plenty of room to elaborate on the student' s learning. You have lots of places to do that and upload course descriptions.

College apps are still stressful, but not for the reasons claimed

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The home schooled students do have a guidance counselor : the parent. Who can write a very detailed letter because she knows the student well.

Also, there is plenty of room to elaborate on the student' s learning. You have lots of places to do that and upload course descriptions.

College apps are still stressful, but not for the reasons claimed

 

Agreed. I submitted a detailed school profile and counselor letter with all the apps my daughter sent in. I did note in the counselor letter that this was not a recommendation, as many schools specifically said they didn't want recommendations from parents, but rather that I was writing as her counselor to give an overall picture of my daughter's educational situation. She had recommendations from her DE professors, employer, and long-time martial arts sensei (depending on how many and what type of recommendations were requested).The majority of schools she chose didn't use the Common App, so she did individual applications.

Edited by KarenNC
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OK, based on the brief summary in the National Review article, I was wondering how this professor & homeschooling parent could seem so clueless and uninformed. But having read the actual article he wrote, the points he makes are more detailed and nuanced:

 

 

Higher education professionals have experience with these questions and forms, so it may be difficult to understand how challenging [this] makes the application process [for homeschoolers]. How do I make a transcript? What goes on it? What is a weighted GPA? Should I weight? How do I weight? Can I add a statement about my pedagogy? Should I write a recommendation or ask others? What counts as a “school†award? Do my classes count as Honors? None of these have obvious answers for parents who don’t already work in higher education. And looming over all of them is the fear, “What if I might be sabotaging my child’s hard work by doing the wrong thing?â€

 

 

Colleges—and the Common App—assume that the student’s high school answers all these questions for the student. In my experience, they provide homeschool parents no systematic guidance at all on these questions. The college application process may be time-consuming for institutional school students, but they simply have to follow directions. Homeschooled students and their families have the additional hurdle of guessing what the directions mean.

 

Third, the college admissions process assumes the presence of “guidance counselors.†These individuals not only help students through the complicated process, they also supply private information about “fit,†giving students a better idea of where they should apply. In contrast to our daughter’s teammates, her homeschool friends have only dim ideas of what their college options are—even those interested in higher education generally only consider Appalachian State University, a community college, or private Bible colleges they hear about from friends or relatives.

 

Probably less recognized is the Common App requirement that each application supply a counselor recommendation. In theory, this could be an opportunity for the parent to discuss the rigor of their students’ coursework, but doing that usefully would require comparative knowledge of institutional school load, of the difference between regular, honors, and AP classes, and of what college admissions officers are looking for. A guidance counselor would know these things, but a parent writing one, possibly for the first time? Even with all the graduate school recommendations I’ve written, it was still difficult for me to write about my daughter. I can’t help but think that these rarely provide useful information other than that the parent is proud of their child.

 

Fourth, these factors force schools to rely on standardized tests to evaluate homeschoolers—the very thing that many left institutional schools to avoid. With the advent of No Child Left Behind and Common Core, public schools now devote a considerable portion of the year to preparation for end-of-year exams. By contrast, homeschoolers—required by North Carolina law to conduct one per year—treat it as a chore to be done quickly and then ignored. This means that the application process has the perverse consequence of evaluating applicants precisely on the least relevant portion of their preparation.

 

Most of the points he raises are things that we discuss here all the time:  Do we weight courses, and if so how? How do we know what to count as "honors"? How do we write a "counselor letter" that sounds objective yet still paints a personal picture of who our kids really are as people? I think he's just saying that colleges could do a better job of helping homeschoolers (at least those who do not have access to the WTM Hive Mind) navigate these questions, which I don't think is a bad idea.

 

The full article is here: How the One Size Fits All College Application Model Hurts Homeschoolers

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Most of the points he raises are things that we discuss here all the time:  Do we weight courses, and if so how? How do we know what to count as "honors"? How do we write a "counselor letter" that sounds objective yet still paints a personal picture of who our kids really are as people? I think he's just saying that colleges could do a better job of helping homeschoolers (at least those who do not have access to the WTM Hive Mind) navigate these questions, which I don't think is a bad idea.

 

Yeah, WTM access is almost a "must have" for traversing these waters!

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this means that the application process has the perverse consequence of evaluating applicants precisely on the least relevant portion of their preparation.

 

I felt very much that all the extra documentation that I provided (course descriptions, profile, and counselor letter) pulled the focus *off* standardized testing.  I was thrilled with the opportunity to explain our approach, an opportunity not given to school kids.  I will say, however, that the extra documentation took months to write up!

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I felt very much that all the extra documentation that I provided (course descriptions, profile, and counselor letter) pulled the focus *off* standardized testing. I was thrilled with the opportunity to explain our approach, an opportunity not given to school kids. I will say, however, that the extra documentation took months to write up!

Yes, but many, many homeschooling parents don't include all those things with their child's application. Even on The Hive, you'll find a mix of posters who didn't write course descriptions or school profiles and who insist the one page transcript was all they provided. If you aren't using the Common App (and Most Schools in my middle of the country area) either don't take it or offer their own application as an acceptable alternative.

 

Very few parents in my area homeschool through high school (maybe only one or two more than in your area *grin*), and no one here has even heard of the Common App!

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I felt very much that all the extra documentation that I provided (course descriptions, profile, and counselor letter) pulled the focus *off* standardized testing.  I was thrilled with the opportunity to explain our approach, an opportunity not given to school kids.  I will say, however, that the extra documentation took months to write up!

 

But most students won't need any of this, if they are not applying to highly competetive colleges.

For almost all colleges, a transcript suffices entirely.

And many colleges don't need the CA at all.

Edited by regentrude
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But most students won't need any of this, if they are not applying to highly competetive colleges.

For almost all colleges, a transcript suffices entirely.

And many colleges don't need the CA at all.

 

True. Do you feel like the Common App gives an advantage to homeschoolers over the standard fill-in-the-blank and attach a transcript college application?

 

Edit to add: When I speak of advantage, I don't mean in regards to public/private school kids - just in regards as to which application would be most advantageous to homeschoolers themselves. If a college actually takes a holistic approach to reading applications, then I would hope the CA would be most helpful. 

 

 

Edited by amathis229
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True. Do you feel like the Common App gives an advantage to homeschoolers over the standard fill-in-the-blank and attach a transcript college application?

 

No idea. You can always send supplementary documentation to a college with the application, even if they don't use the CA. I don't imagine homeschoolers are at an advantage or disadvantage based on the submission method.

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I don't have a kid that has applied to college, so I can't comment directly.  But I know plenty of people locally who've had no problem at all and have had their kids successfully matriculate to programs of many types. 

 

When I read this and since we're looking at programs right now with my junior, I have to say, I am a bit put off by schools who have ADDITIONAL requirements that are extremely specific for homeschoolers.  Like there are a couple programs my son is in that want homeschoolers to take SAT2.  Well, he is pulling a 4.0 in dual enrollment classes.  And has a very competitive ACT score and other documented outside classes.  So I do think that is a complete waste of time and money.  Many of the MOST competitive programs aren't requiring that kind of thing anymore.  I do know a couple people who bypassed requirements like this with really good documentation and a dual enrolled transcript so he is still considering applying. 

 

If the requirement was documentation for 2-3 outside classes/verification (CLEP, AP, Dual Enroll, accredited online classes, etc), I think that is a much more reasonable requirement than padding the coffers of the college board any further.  :glare:

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But most students won't need any of this, if they are not applying to highly competetive colleges.

For almost all colleges, a transcript suffices entirely.

And many colleges don't need the CA at all.

 

But then I don't get it.  How can he complain that the students are evaluated on standardized tests rather than their nontraditional educational achievements if he won't document what those achievements and approach to study look like.  You can't really have it both ways.

 

I was told by one university that the counselor letter for a homeschooler should describe what the student's nontraditional education looks like.  Isn't this the perfect place to discuss how authentic learning took precedence over standardized tests? 

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 I don’t think anyone will snuggle up with a hot chocolate and my lovingly rendered class descriptions.

 

:D   But my guess is that they read ONE.  Probably a self-studied course rather than from an outside provider, and probably one that might look odd on the transcript.  I had a pretty good idea which 5 they would be most interested in, so I put extra time into those. Of course, there is no way to know if I was right!  

 

Don't you wish some days to be a fly on the wall at admissions. 

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Lol. Nope.

 

Haha.  It seems such a secretive process.  Admissions doesn't want to tell you what they are looking for because then the kids will just do that, so they are vague on requirements.  But then you are just wandering in the dark when trying to advise a student and then write up an application.  This is just not the case in other countries.

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But then I don't get it. How can he complain that the students are evaluated on standardized tests rather than their nontraditional educational achievements if he won't document what those achievements and approach to study look like. You can't really have it both ways.

 

I was told by one university that the counselor letter for a homeschooler should describe what the student's nontraditional education looks like. Isn't this the perfect place to discuss how authentic learning took precedence over standardized tests?

I agree. I also agree that non-tradional courses are the most likely descriptions they read.

 

Personally, I think these are some of the strongest parts of our kids' applications.

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Apparently they take about 8 min to review an application. I don’t think anyone will snuggle up with a hot chocolate and my lovingly rendered class descriptions, but we do the silly dance anyway.

 

I think that even if they don't read every word (or even most of the words), a documentation package that has been carefully constructed and attends to every detail reflects well on the homeschool and it's administrator, and, thus the education the applicant received.

 

At least that's what I keep telling myself!

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I think that even if they don't read every word (or even most of the words), a documentation package that has been carefully constructed and attends to every detail reflects well on the homeschool and it's administrator, and, thus the education the applicant received.

 

At least that's what I keep telling myself!

 

That was exactly the rationale behind me making an application package that looked professional, was organized and comprehensive - because that creates an impression about the way I run my homeschool.

They aren't going to read every word, but they will see there seems to be order and method behind this education.

Basically, they can see that I have it together.

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Quoting to reiterate this point. I've gone through the college admission process with four homeschooled students so far, and I've never yet done the Common App.

 

No common app for ds, either. In fact, Appalachian State was his first choice university. Their application process was very straightforward, no common app required. The two admissions counselors that I spoke with asked me to only send a transcript with no supporting documentation. They both said that if they need it, they will ask for it, but that they don't require it of anyone. So, he filled out their online application, had his ACT scores reported, I mailed a transcript and voilá - an acceptance letter arrived in the mail! One week after graduation, I sent his final transcript. 

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:D   But my guess is that they read ONE.  Probably a self-studied course rather than from an outside provider, and probably one that might look odd on the transcript.  I had a pretty good idea which 5 they would be most interested in, so I put extra time into those. Of course, there is no way to know if I was right!  

 

Don't you wish some days to be a fly on the wall at admissions. 

 

This was my assumption.  I had a few non-standard courses.  Those were what I expected to be spot checked.  I didn't expect they would do more with DE pre-calculus, calculus and statistics than note that they existed and had a grade from the community college.

 

I did have one very nice admissions officer who paused in conversation at an accepted students day to tell me how much he appreciated the course descriptions, because they were able to see exactly what each course on the transcript meant.  

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I very much appreciated the ability to write a school profile about how and why we homeschool as well as a counselor recommendation and course descriptions within the Common App.  I'm sure my attitude is colored by the amount of effort that I've put into crafting documents to support a CA application.  I actually found it a bit disconcerting to use application systems that didn't ask for supporting documentation.  DS2 applied to a University of California school and to University of Washington, both of which use their own system.  UC didn't want any of the documents I'd written, iirc.

 

DS1 and DS2 were both accepted at a majority of the schools they applied to.  I have no real way of knowing if it was the counselor documentation that did the trick, or if it was largely based on high test scores, multiple AP exams, and multiple DE courses.  They even did the SAT Subject tests.  (I drew the line at the one school that insisted DS1 needed to have a GED.  Oddly, it was the lowest ranked and lowest stat school he was considering.)

 

I think the author overstates the difficulty of communicating what makes a homeschool education special or how the student shines.  Of course I'm the guidance counselor.  Who else would be?  Few of the schools seemed to have batted an eye at receiving documents from me.  My counselor recommendation begins with the statement that I have been both the home educator and the student's parent.

 

I also think he overestimates how much assistance the majority of high school students receive from their guidance counselors.  I think they may have a good sense (better, probably than me) of how a student with certain stats is likely to be viewed at a particular school.  But I'm not convinced that most students get more than rudimentary counseling about fit.  

 

I also think he quickly glosses over an issue that is a major one within certain homeschooling circles.  Some families fear the influence that a college will have on their children and discourage them from attending any but the most closely cultivated schools.  Others view higher education with contempt or as a waste of money.  They encourage their kids to get a degree (any degree) as quickly and inexpensively as possible.  This isn't the fault of some distant Common App monolith.  This is the result of priorities the families are setting.

 

College is a big deal.  It's 4+ years and a good chunk of money.  Other than a house, it's the most expensive thing most people will ever buy.  When we have shopped for homes, we've spent time looking at our finances, at what we needed (size, area, distance from work, HOA or not, sports clubs, local amenities), and how each neighborhood and individual home felt.  We asked for counsel from friends who lived in those areas, but realized that their priorities might be different than ours.  

 

Similarly, we have spent hours on reading college websites, going to presentations, writing documentation, choosing courses that will set our students up for success (our choice of DE junior year was in part to ensure there was a source for a letter of recommendation in math), reading pages from specific departments, comparing courses of study and degree requirements, and much more.  Cars are also expensive.  We don't buy the first one we see on the lot.  We read reviews, do test drives, compare prices, ask around.  

 

It's work.  But of course it is.  It's complicated.  Of course it is.  Even my two kids didn't want the same thing from college.  They only had one school in common between them (one applied to 6 and the other to well over a dozen).  

 

That some families hold college education in contempt or are not willing to put time into do research isn't the fault of the Common Application.  

 

I'm honestly not sure what he would want as an alternative.  He doesn't like reliance on test scores.  He doesn't want to utilize the counselor back end to submit supporting documentation.  He doesn't mention the student essay or boxes for amplifying information that are on the student side of the application.  

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My two boys have now combined for 16 college apps. They have been for private LACs from not very to moderately selective and in state and out of state public universities. I think acceptance rates have been above 40% for all of them except one more selective LAC. So no highly selective schools but some tougher schools in there.

 

They have 14 acceptances and two waitllists. Both wailists indicated that ds had not expressed enough interest (which was true, literally did nothing except check the box on the common app and send scores).

 

All 14 acceptances came with scholarships. Some were larger than others, of course. None of the schools wanted anything extra from us or sought clarification. Some of the acceptances came so quickly I'm pretty sure someone just glanced at the numbers, accepted, and moved on. I feel like all the scholarships were primarily based on test scores/GPA. We attended (and still have one to go) a few scholarship weekends but in our case I felt like those were recruitment events and the scholarships would have been pretty much the same regardless.

 

I am of the mind that for all but the most selective schools and the most selective scholarships at some lower ranked schools, homeschoolers don't have to do anything extra. I had course descriptions for oldest but never sent them anywhere. I did not even attempt to keep them for the second ds for various reasons. I do not feel like any of that would have made any difference for my kids and I tend to think my kids are similar to most and that most students will not need the additional documentation.

 

Now, if your dc is one of the kids that needs it, you will wish you had it done, for sure. My third ds, a freshman, is the most academic of mine and the most likely to have a chance at the top schools and scholarships. I have opted not to keep course descriptions for him. I don't think he will need them. If he does and it is important to him for a particular school I will groan and go back and recreate them. I'm willing to take that chance because I just haven't seen a need.

 

That said, my kids have applied to and/or ended up at (or will end up at) schools that have no name recognition and I have to explain to people where they are located and why my dc would choose such a school. So no dream schools here.

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I think so much of evaluating what is necessary and useful in college applications is very situational.

 

-Our state university system accepts all students who meet the threshold test scores and gpa.  They are looking for reasons to accept students.  Only a few departments are highly ranked.  The community college system here is part of the university system.  A calculus class at one seamlessly transfers to the other campuses.  In fact, some of the counseling staff at one university campus advise students to even try to split their week or day between the university and a CC campus, just because the same class is about 1/3 the cost at a CC.  (So why spend more for a Composition 1 course that is the same quality from campus to campus?)

 

-University of California doesn't even want to see a transcript except in specific instances AFTER a student has been accepted.  If most of the schools a student is considering are within this system, then course descriptions may be unnecessary work.  I do think having a transcript laid out in advance makes filling out the application easier.

 

-Some schools really sort by test score.  A student with test scores well above average for the school may not need much additional documentation.  On the other hand, a student with middling or lower scores might be well served by being able to provide additional insights into the student's high school experience.

 

-Highly selective and/or elite schools may have very high average test scores.  These are schools that are going to very much want to look at the rest of the student's experiences.  (One of my kids is at a school like this.  Most of the students have near perfect test scores.)

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Haha.  It seems such a secretive process.  Admissions doesn't want to tell you what they are looking for because then the kids will just do that, so they are vague on requirements.  But then you are just wandering in the dark when trying to advise a student and then write up an application.  This is just not the case in other countries.

 

I totally agree. My husband went to university in the UK, and he finds the US system to be baffling. In the UK, you get a certain test score, you are eligible for that particular university.

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