Jump to content


What's with the ads?

Photo
- - - - -

Grammar for WTM Lesson 64--diagramming help needed


9 replies to this topic

What's with the ads?

#1 cintinative

cintinative

    Hive Mind Queen Bee

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1897 posts

Posted 29 January 2018 - 05:57 PM

Okay so two questions about the key.

 

I am inexperienced with this level of diagramming. These might be stupid questions. 

 

For this sentence:

 

With terror growing greater in his heart, he saw the flame of fire consuming the town and the castle.

 

The key says that "consuming the town and the castle" modifies "fire" but in the actual diagram, it is diagrammed below flame, not off the word fire. Is this right?

 

 

For this sentence:

 

Thus Queen Helen found him, and finding him made no outcry of any kind.

 

The key says that "finding him" modifies Queen Helen, but it is diagrammed below "made." I am confused by this. Why is it not diagrammed under what it modifies? Also, how is it that "finding him" modifies Queen Helen?

 

TIA for your help hive grammarians. I am lost. 



#2 ikslo

ikslo

    Ninja Elephant Minion with Nunchucks

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 8234 posts

Posted 29 January 2018 - 06:44 PM

I think in the first sentence the diagram was correct, it modifies flame. Fire is part of a prepositional phrase which also modifies flame.

The second - well it is a crappy sentence imo. ;). Should be something like, “Thus finding him, Queen Helen made no outcry of any kind.” As there is no subject in the second half of the sentence, the comma is incorrectly placed within a compound predicate. But I readily admit I could be wrong.

ETA: Thus Queen Helen found him and, finding him, made no outcry of any kind.

Set the participial phrase apart. Which just shows how redundant the sentence is and makes me dislike it even more.

Edited by ikslo, 30 January 2018 - 06:04 PM.

  • ScoutTN and cintinative like this

#3 cintinative

cintinative

    Hive Mind Queen Bee

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1897 posts

Posted 29 January 2018 - 08:25 PM

can you explain why "finding him" is diagrammed under "made" if it modifies "Queen Helen"?  I don't understand that.



#4 ikslo

ikslo

    Ninja Elephant Minion with Nunchucks

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 8234 posts

Posted 29 January 2018 - 08:35 PM

can you explain why "finding him" is diagrammed under "made" if it modifies "Queen Helen"? I don't understand that.

Nor do I. Sorry. :(
  • cintinative likes this

#5 ScoutTN

ScoutTN

    Hive Mind Queen Bee

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 8022 posts

Posted 30 January 2018 - 09:24 AM

I think ikslo is right about both sentences.

 

In the first, the participial phrase modifies flame and is correctly diagrammed. The key is wrong.

 

The second sentence needs the extra comma to improve it, but is still bad. I think "finding him" is a adjectival participial phrase modifying "Queen Helen" and should be diagrammed so. 

 

Maybe you should contact WTM Press to clarify. They may need to publish and errata page.  :huh:

 

 

 

 


  • cintinative and ikslo like this

#6 cintinative

cintinative

    Hive Mind Queen Bee

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1897 posts

Posted 30 January 2018 - 09:32 AM

 

 

Maybe you should contact WTM Press to clarify. They may need to publish and errata page.  :huh:

 

 

I just did this. =) There is definitely something amiss between the sentence labeling and the diagramming.  Both are in the key, so they will need to fix that.


Edited by cintinative, 30 January 2018 - 09:35 AM.

  • ikslo likes this

#7 serendipitous journey

serendipitous journey

    Hive Mind Queen Bee

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2738 posts

Posted 30 January 2018 - 11:35 AM

I'm not sure about this, but it seems to me that "finding him" in the second sentence does modify "made no outcry" -- or at least it can be read that way -- Queen Helen made no outcry.  When did she make no outcry?  under what circumstances?  when she found him.  An adverbial sort of thing. 

 

Could be wrong though, am no grammar expert.

 

It's a clunky sentence for sure.  On the bright side I suppose it is good reading practice for convoluted English!


  • cintinative likes this

#8 klmama

klmama

    Busy Bee

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 5619 posts

Posted 30 January 2018 - 12:32 PM

There are a number of errors in this first printing that don't appear on their errata page, which they haven't updated for a long time.  I've sent them several things beyond the last error shown, but nothing has been added to the list.  I like the program overall, but this is a good reminder to self not to purchase the very first printing of a new curriculum that requires such a detailed key.  

 

 


  • ScoutTN and cintinative like this

#9 cintinative

cintinative

    Hive Mind Queen Bee

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1897 posts

Posted 30 January 2018 - 08:03 PM

There are a number of errors in this first printing that don't appear on their errata page, which they haven't updated for a long time.  I've sent them several things beyond the last error shown, but nothing has been added to the list.  I like the program overall, but this is a good reminder to self not to purchase the very first printing of a new curriculum that requires such a detailed key.  

 

I have had the same experience, but overall I do like the program. Sometimes I think those of us who have sent in lots of errata should get our product for a reduced cost. =)



#10 JNDodge

JNDodge

    Hive Mind Worker Bee

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 99 posts

Posted 30 January 2018 - 11:47 PM

Thus Queen Helen found him, and, (upon) finding him, made no public outcry.

"Finding him" is adverbial, modifying "made" to signify when no public outcry was made.

The sentence is poorly crafted, for sure!

Edited by JNDodge, 30 January 2018 - 11:50 PM.

  • cintinative likes this