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Jacobs Algebra edition (cross posted)


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#1 Targhee

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 08:57 PM

Whenever I see links for Jacobs Algebra it's for the older 1979 edition (based on cover art). Is there any reason I should go for that one instead of a recent (2016) Algebra book by Jacobs? Here's the newer one https://www.amazon.c...FFFKCWQFR0XX2N2

I don need recommendations for a completely different Algebra, just seeing if the 2016 is as good as the 1979. Thanks!

1979 edition for reference.
https://www.amazon.c...FFFKCWQFR0XX2N2

#2 Lori D.

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 10:12 PM

I just took 1 minute (no longer) and looked at the table of contents and first pages of that 2016 edition you linked at Amazon, and, without digging out our old Jacobs to do a side-by-side comparison, it looks identical to our 1979 edition. :)


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#3 Targhee

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 11:24 PM

I just took 1 minute (no longer) and looked at the table of contents and first pages of that 2016 edition you linked at Amazon, and, without digging out our old Jacobs to do a side-by-side comparison, it looks identical to our 1979 edition. :)

Thanks! Just what I needed - I couldn't find a preview of the older one.

#4 silver

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 10:19 AM

I want to say that I read somewhere that the newer version took out one of the problem sets. That set II and III are similar and the newer version moved section III to one of the supplemental books.

#5 Targhee

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 10:31 AM

I want to say that I read somewhere that the newer version took out one of the problem sets. That set II and III are similar and the newer version moved section III to one of the supplemental books.

Oh, I will see what I can find. Thanks

#6 silver

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 12:18 PM

It's published by Master Books now. This is form their website:

 

https://www.masterbo...iculum-pack-dvd

 


Elementary Algebra Student Text:

  • Full Color Illustrations
  • 17 sections, covering functions and graphs, integers, rational numbers, exponents, polynomials, factoring, fractions, and more.
  • Set II exercise solutions provided in back of text
  • Flexible based on focus & intensity of the course
    • Set I exercises review ideas & concepts from previous lessons to provide ongoing application of material.
    • Set II exercises allow student to apply material from the new lesson
    • Set III exercises (provided in Teacher’s Guide) provide additional practice for material learned in the new lesson
    • Set IV exercises challenge students who are excelling and can also be used for extra credit

 

So, yes, they did move the set III exercises. They are available in the teacher's guide (sold separately) and are usually not needed unless your student needs extra practice.


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#7 EKS

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 12:32 PM

I've looked at what is available online, and, while the original edition is completely secular, the new edition references the Bible ("in the beginning" on the cover) and references God in the forward (not written by Jacobs).  They also added some extra colors that improve it, IMO.  There is a review on the website that says that some of the BC cartoons were removed.  I wonder if this was in an effort to "sanitize" it (not that it needed it, IMO), since the publisher is Christian?  Also, it is extremely weird that they removed the Set III exercises from the main text.  


Edited by EKS, 26 January 2018 - 12:33 PM.

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#8 RootAnn

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 07:42 PM

I did not realize they moved the Set III exercises. I have the teacher guide and was very excited that there was yet another set of exercises I could pull from for practice when my kid wasn't getting it the first two times.

Now I realize why the problems looked just like Set 3 in the book.  :banghead:  :confused1:



#9 Targhee

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 07:48 PM

I've looked at what is available online, and, while the original edition is completely secular, the new edition references the Bible ("in the beginning" on the cover) and references God in the forward (not written by Jacobs). They also added some extra colors that improve it, IMO. There is a review on the website that says that some of the BC cartoons were removed. I wonder if this was in an effort to "sanitize" it (not that it needed it, IMO), since the publisher is Christian? Also, it is extremely weird that they removed the Set III exercises from the main text.

Oh - I didn't realize about the added religious angle. Thanks for the heads up. Although I am Christian I avoid most Christian texts. 🙄

#10 Farrar

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Posted 27 January 2018 - 08:07 PM

Good grief. With the Set III's missing and the weird religious content and the availability of the old student edition at an affordable price, I have no idea why anyone would buy this new one. Maybe for the teacher guide I guess?


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#11 Lori D.

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Posted 28 January 2018 - 04:30 PM

...With the Set III's missing ... and the availability of the old student edition at an affordable price, I have no idea why anyone would buy this new one. Maybe for the teacher guide I guess?

 

Maybe people need new editions due to issues with mold or allergies to pet hair or cigarette smoke that come with used? Also hard sometimes to find used that is in decent condition, or to find all the elements needed -- text, teacher guide, AND the (more recently recreated) solution guide... Buying new solves that problem: everything in one place, purchased as a set. :)

 

It looks like Set III is not actually missing -- just moved to the teacher guide. Just an FYI for those interested: Set III is actually supplemental material for additional practice, if needed, as it is identical to Set II (just with different numbers plugged in). So moving it to the teacher guide can make sense if the new publisher thought that it would be easier for families to use Set III as supplement (the original intent), rather than thinking it was required material... 

 

We used the original edition, and the way the material is divided up, you do need both the student text and teacher guide, as the student text only has the answers to Set II in the back. The teacher guide contains the answers to Sets I, III, and IV. 

 

 

Good grief. With .... the weird religious content ...

 

And, just tweaking you a bit here, Farrar, but I'm guessing  that by "weird religious content" what you really mean is that "it seems odd to secular homeschoolers to include religious content in a math program", or perhaps, "it is irritating to secular homeschoolers to add religious content to a previously secular program"... Because, just sayin': Christianity and the Bible are not usually considered "weird" ;), and a lot of Christian publishers include Bible quotes or use Scripture references as part of a program (even a math program), and I haven't heard people on these boards call that "weird religious content" before. :laugh:


Edited by Lori D., 28 January 2018 - 04:38 PM.

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#12 Farrar

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Posted 28 January 2018 - 05:16 PM

Maybe people need new editions due to issues with mold or allergies to pet hair or cigarette smoke that come with used? Also hard sometimes to find used that is in decent condition, or to find all the elements needed -- text, teacher guide, AND the (more recently recreated) solution guide... Buying new solves that problem: everything in one place, purchased as a set. :)

 

It looks like Set III is not actually missing -- just moved to the teacher guide. Just an FYI for those interested: Set III is actually supplemental material for additional practice, if needed, as it is identical to Set II (just with different numbers plugged in). So moving it to the teacher guide can make sense if the new publisher thought that it would be easier for families to use Set III as supplement (the original intent), rather than thinking it was required material... 

 

We used the original edition, and the way the material is divided up, you do need both the student text and teacher guide, as the student text only has the answers to Set II in the back. The teacher guide contains the answers to Sets I, III, and IV. 

 

 

 

And, just tweaking you a bit here, Farrar, but I'm guessing  that by "weird religious content" what you really mean is that "it seems odd to secular homeschoolers to include religious content in a math program", or perhaps, "it is irritating to secular homeschoolers to add religious content to a previously secular program"... Because, just sayin': Christianity and the Bible are not usually considered "weird" ;), and a lot of Christian publishers include Bible quotes or use Scripture references as part of a program (even a math program), and I haven't heard people on these boards call that "weird religious content" before. :laugh:

 

I can understand needing a new book and getting the solutions guide new - it's hard to find that used. But I've now bought Jacob's algebra three times (because reasons) and always paid about a third of the cost of the textbook new. And every used old copy I've gotten has been pristine, even when marked as "good" and not "like new." It's really easy to find.

 

I guess I don't find it weird at all to have a publisher make a religious math book... I wouldn't call CLE math weird, for example. But I'm going to stand by it being weird to take Harold Jacobs's completely secular classic text, one that was popular in public schools for years, and insert biblical quotes. Sorry, that is weird! I don't think it's only weird to me either.


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#13 Lori D.

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Posted 28 January 2018 - 05:44 PM

I can understand needing a new book and getting the solutions guide new - it's hard to find that used. But I've now bought Jacob's algebra three times (because reasons) and always paid about a third of the cost of the textbook new. And every used old copy I've gotten has been pristine, even when marked as "good" and not "like new." It's really easy to find.

 

Awesome! :) I just find that when it's time to re-sell, if a new edition came out while we were using the older edition, I can hardly unload the older edition for 1/10th of what I paid for it. Not that re-sale value is the only reason to get an older edition. ;)

 

 

I guess I don't find it weird at all to have a publisher make a religious math book... I wouldn't call CLE math weird, for example. But I'm going to stand by it being weird to take Harold Jacobs's completely secular classic text, one that was popular in public schools for years, and insert biblical quotes. Sorry, that is weird! I don't think it's only weird to me either.

 

While he never states it directly, there are a number of places in the examples and problem sets where Jacobs alludes to Christian things, so I'm pretty sure he is a person of faith or church-goer. In fact, his bio states that he attended Wesleyan University. And I can't imagine that it would be weird for a Christian author to sell the rights to his textbook to a Christian publisher, knowing they would add some additional Christian touches.

 

Also thinking of Saxon, a classic secular text that has some very clear Christian items that show up as part of a few word problems here and there. And Math-U-See is billed as secular, but has even more obviously Christian items pop up here and there throughout the program. So Jacobs is not the only. :)

 

 

ETA:

Here you go -- more about Harold Jacobs:

 

"...Harold R. Jacobs was born in North Hollywood (1939), part of the San Fernando Valley in southern California where he still lives. While he was a student at Van Nuys High School, he realized that he wanted to become a teacher. He went to U.C.L.A. where, after earning a bachelor’s degree and teaching credential, he began teaching at Ulysses S. Grant High School in Van Nuys in 1962. In 1970, he earned a master’s degree from Wesleyan University in Connecticut. During 35 years of teaching at Grant, Harold taught mathematics, chemistry and physics and also served for 12 years as chairman of the mathematics department. He was also an instructor of mathematics in the summer program for teachers at U.C.L.A. He has spoken at more than 200 national and regional mathematics conferences in the United States, Canada, and Australia. He was also a member of the advisory board for The Challenge of the Unknown, a mathematics film series of the American Association for the Advancement of Science. Mr. Jacobs has written three mathematics textbooks, Mathematics: A Human Endeavor (1970, 1982, 1994), Geometry: Seeing, Doing, Understanding (1974, 1987, 2003), and Elementary Algebra (1979), all published by W. H. Freeman and Company, as well as articles for the Encyclopedia Britannica and The Mathematics Teacher. He won the “Most Outstanding High School Mathematics Teacher in Los Angeles” award in 1984 and the Presidential Award for Excellence in Mathematics Teaching in 1988. Now retired from the classroom, he still speaks at mathematics conferences and continues to write. He feels fortunate to be a member of Grace Community Church, a Christ-centered Bible-teaching church pastored by John MacArthur."


Edited by Lori D., 28 January 2018 - 05:54 PM.

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#14 Farrar

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Posted 28 January 2018 - 05:51 PM

Wait, Wesleyan, like the Wesleyan in Connecticut? I really think there's not a more out there liberal, atheist types school in some ways. Like, yeah, Reed and Hampshire are hippies. Wesleyan is the hardcore radicals. (Said with all affection for my step-sis, who went there.) I don't really know much about Harold Jacobs other than what comes through in his textbooks. But what comes through is a man who loves math and science, not religion. The religious references I've seen (other than BC comics) have all been cultural - the sort of thing that would be in any American text of the time. If he was religious, that's great for him. But I think it's a stretch to say the books have a religious feel in the first place.

 

I'm glad it's in print, I guess? I still think it's jarring to add explicitly religious content.



#15 Lori D.

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Posted 28 January 2018 - 05:56 PM

... I still think it's jarring to add explicitly religious content.

 

I haven't looked in-depth at the new edition to see how much, or what type, of new and explicitly religious content has been added, so I can't comment there.

 

 

ETA:

As Christian homeschoolers, we used both secular and Christian materials, and didn't get in too much of a twist either way, except for dropping material (either Christian or secular) that was too extreme in viewpoint in any one direction. I figure no one author or publisher exactly matches our interpretation on everything, and where differences arise, makes for good discussion. If there had been a lot of scripture in our math programs, we either would have skipped the scripture, saved it for Bible study time, or used a different program if it was too distracting. But, I had to adapt constantly anyways due to needs of DS#2, so I was pretty used to doing that with a lot of our materials. So that's probably why it's not striking me as something to get too worried about, unless a lot of content was actively changed.


Edited by Lori D., 28 January 2018 - 06:02 PM.


#16 serendipitous journey

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Posted 28 January 2018 - 06:00 PM

...

 

I guess I don't find it weird at all to have a publisher make a religious math book... I wouldn't call CLE math weird, for example. But I'm going to stand by it being weird to take Harold Jacobs's completely secular classic text, one that was popular in public schools for years, and insert biblical quotes. Sorry, that is weird! I don't think it's only weird to me either.

 

been following this ... I'm Christian, and I would be unhappy about it in our textbooks.  I think taking BC out is _definitely_ weird, 'cause Creationism isn't a specifically Christian thing -- lots of Jewish Creationists running about, and some Muslim ones I'm pretty sure; and all the Christians I know well are not Creationist. 

 

I wish the Christianity in these companies came out as a deep concern for the plight of the poor & the hungry & the imprisoned, and a fascination with the inherent beauty of mathematics as the language of nature.

 

I must confess to liking inspiring Bible quotes in my teacher guides, though.  Though classical inspiring quotes from any source would be great, really.  Some days they definitely help.
 

ETA: more on-topic: thanks for this thread.  I hadn't known about the edition changes, and was able to make sure that we have both the text and the TM for our set.  Jacobs was a poor fit for my older, but I want to have it available for my second child who is an entirely different little fellow. 


Edited by serendipitous journey, 28 January 2018 - 07:49 PM.

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#17 melmichigan

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Posted 28 January 2018 - 06:14 PM

I have an older textbook, and answer key.  I purchased the new TG to use with my kids as worksheets for each lesson.  It was cheaper to purchase the TG, which has permission to reproduce pages for my own homeschool.  We do the Set I and II together from the textbook I own, and then I assign III.  The TG also has multiple versions of the tests to use for quizzes and review.


Edited by melmichigan, 28 January 2018 - 06:14 PM.

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#18 RootAnn

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Posted 28 January 2018 - 08:49 PM

What I think is weird about the Set III being removed from the text is that Ask Dr Callahan uses Jacobs for his video lectures and his suggested problem sets mix Set 1, 2, and 3 problems. So, you'll HAVE to get the TE even though I think his materials give the answers to the suggested problems if you buy his set.

 

I often use the Set 3 problems when the first go-around of a specific Set 2 problem doesn't "click" well. We don't do the whole set 3, usually, but often do one or two problems in that set.


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#19 Lori D.

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Posted 28 January 2018 - 09:48 PM

Okay, well now I'm just super curious to hear from someone who has both copies to do a side-by-side comparison!  :D  Here are excerpts from the detailed description of the new Master Books edition at Rainbow Resource about the student textbook:

 

"...Master Books assures us that there have been no changes in content even the problems in the exercises have remained the same. If you are familiar with the older text, one thing you will miss is some of the cartoons; however, some were kept in the text to add to the readability and a bit of humor never hurts. Although Master Books is a Christian company, this text doesn't proselytize there is no Christian content."

 

and then this description of the teacher guide:

 

"...Set III exercises are found in the teacher guide. These are optional for those students who might need more practice. Tests for use at the end of each chapter are also included. There are four different versions of each test that are labeled A, B, C, and D. Problems are similar in each test and cover the concepts of that chapter. There is some variation in the numbers used in the different tests..."

 

(In the older edition we have, the chapters tests and mid-term/final exams are in the student book, rather than the teacher guide.)

 

 

So it sounds like other than the new cover/title, and the added forward that is not by Jacobs, there has been no added religious (or non-religious) material. Other changes appear to be fairly minimal: dropping some cartoons, and shifting some material (Set III and the tests) from the student text to the teacher guide. So it sounds like the meat of the program is the same.

 

I'd still love to hear from someone making an actual side-by-side comparison that this is the case. ;) I'd also love to know why the new publisher removed some cartoons... Since the company says it doesn't proselytize, and because it sounds like they didn't add/delete to Jacobs written text, I wonder if it was due to copyright issues? Or needed to reduce pages for reduced printing cost? Or felt that some cartoons were too outdated to click with students 40 years later? Or...?

 

But hopefully that will help allay some fears about the new edition...


Edited by Lori D., 28 January 2018 - 09:58 PM.

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#20 RootAnn

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Posted 29 January 2018 - 09:29 AM

Inquiring minds want to know...

(In the older edition we have, the chapters tests and mid-term/final exams are in the student book, rather than the teacher guide.)

I have an older edition (with the new edition TE), but certainly didn't see these. Are they in the back?

We use the Chapter Reviews - many times, both sets - but we're using the tests in the new edition TE.



#21 Lori D.

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Posted 29 January 2018 - 12:35 PM

Inquiring minds want to know...

I have an older edition (with the new edition TE), but certainly didn't see these. Are they in the back?

We use the Chapter Reviews - many times, both sets - but we're using the tests in the new edition TE.

 

doh! :: forehead smack :: I was thinking of the chapter REVIEWS within the student text as TESTS, because we used them that way, as tests... embarrassed!  :blushing:

 

Yes, you're right -- for our older edition, we have a separate paperback 8.5"x11" booklet of Test Masters, which is where the tests are. So our older edition came with 3 elements:

- hardback student textbook

- softback smaller size teacher guide book

- softback test masters book


Edited by Lori D., 29 January 2018 - 12:36 PM.

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#22 serendipitous journey

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Posted 29 January 2018 - 08:34 PM

Well, Lori, if you are going to advocate for INFORMED opinions, what shall we do? 
 

I don't have the new version, but you can use the Amazon Look Inside feature to peek; and so far, I found quotes (but none Biblical) and cartoons (one of them BC).  Hmmm.

 

Folks do agree that the Set III stuff is now in the teacher book. 


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#23 Lori D.

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Posted 29 January 2018 - 08:42 PM

Well, Lori, if you are going to advocate for INFORMED opinions, what shall we do? 
 

I don't have the new version, but you can use the Amazon Look Inside feature to peek; and so far, I found quotes (but none Biblical) and cartoons (one of them BC).  Hmmm.

 

Folks do agree that the Set III stuff is now in the teacher book. 

 

lol. I think somebody needs to break down and buy the edition that they don't already have and compare for us.  :laugh:    Kidding. ;) Wonder if the new publisher could provide a list of all the specific changes/additions??


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#24 serendipitous journey

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Posted 29 January 2018 - 09:23 PM

lol. I think somebody needs to break down and buy the edition that they don't already have and compare for us.  :laugh:    Kidding. ;) Wonder if the new publisher could provide a list of all the specific changes/additions??

 

I totally want to do this!  I probably could, but we are having a Radical Midyear Shift and all my book money is going toward that. 



#25 Lori D.

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Posted 29 January 2018 - 09:58 PM

I totally want to do this!  I probably could, but we are having a Radical Midyear Shift and all my book money is going toward that. 

 

:thumbup: If I lived closer, you could borrow my old edition. Alas, DS#1 has *adamantly* stated he wants me to keep the Jacobs Algebra and Jacobs Geometry 2nd ed. for him, as he loved them that much. So I don't dare let them out of the house now...  :laugh:



#26 alisoncooks

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Posted 29 January 2018 - 10:33 PM

In general, I really think Master Books has visually pleasing layouts in their teacher guides/student books. I hadn't considered Jacob's for Algebra/Geometry, but this update will put them in the running.

#27 blue plaid

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Posted 30 January 2018 - 12:16 PM

I have the new version but not the old.  Yes, there are several BC comics included.  And while I haven't read/used the whole book yet, from what I have used and flipped through I have seen zero Bible verses.  (Given the nature of the text, personally I think it highly unlikely that any are included anywhere in this text.) The only remotely Christian content in the foreword is the single sentence "I am grateful to God that the book will continue to be published."  


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#28 Wildwood

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Posted 31 January 2018 - 12:15 PM

:thumbup: If I lived closer, you could borrow my old edition. Alas, DS#1 has *adamantly* stated he wants me to keep the Jacobs Algebra and Jacobs Geometry 2nd ed. for him, as he loved them that much. So I don't dare let them out of the house now...  :laugh:

 

Lori D, what type of learner/kid do you think would jive well with Jacobs style/format?  I don't own a Jacobs text, but have considered it for my daughter.  Thanks!



#29 Lori D.

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Posted 31 January 2018 - 12:41 PM

Lori D, what type of learner/kid do you think would jive well with Jacobs style/format?  I don't own a Jacobs text, but have considered it for my daughter.  Thanks!

 

Well, if it helps, DS#1 (highly auditory-sequential) loved Miquon and Singapore Primary, and went on to love Jacobs. And I understand that Math Mammoth falls in a similar category as Miquon and Singapore, so if your student clicked with any of those, then Jacobs might also click.

 

Those who don't click with Jacobs tend to complain that it is "too wordy". I always scratch my head over that because I never felt the teaching info was long at all, BUT... what I think is going on is that those who find Jacobs "too wordy" are wanting "just the facts, ma'am" -- just the algorithms and steps for how to do the math topic of that lesson, and don't need or want the "big picture" example of how the math topic is used in real life that Jacobs opens every chapter with.

 

Because of that "big picture" example and that it shows tangible ways that intangible algebra is used, I thought that Jacobs would be a good fit for DS#2 (highly visual-spatial). And it was okay, but I just think Algebra (an abstract subject that requires very sequential steps to complete the processes) just never was going to click very well for DS#2, who is all about the concrete and random processing.

 

Does that help??



#30 Wildwood

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Posted 31 January 2018 - 01:03 PM

Well, if it helps, DS#1 (highly auditory-sequential) loved Miquon and Singapore Primary, and went on to love Jacobs. And I understand that Math Mammoth falls in a similar category as Miquon and Singapore, so if your student clicked with any of those, then Jacobs might also click.

 

Those who don't click with Jacobs tend to complain that it is "too wordy". I always scratch my head over that because I never felt the teaching info was long at all, BUT... what I think is going on is that those who find Jacobs "too wordy" are wanting "just the facts, ma'am" -- just the algorithms and steps for how to do the math topic of that lesson, and don't need or want the "big picture" example of how the math topic is used in real life that Jacobs opens every chapter with.

 

Because of that "big picture" example and that it shows tangible ways that intangible algebra is used, I thought that Jacobs would be a good fit for DS#2 (highly visual-spatial). And it was okay, but I just think Algebra (an abstract subject that requires very sequential steps to complete the processes) just never was going to click very well for DS#2, who is all about the concrete and random processing.

 

Does that help??

 

Yes, this does help!

I'm thinking Jacobs would likely suit my younger daughter, but not my "just the facts", older daughter.

Thank you, Lori D.!



#31 Lori D.

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Posted 31 January 2018 - 01:47 PM

Yes, this does help!

I'm thinking Jacobs would likely suit my younger daughter, but not my "just the facts", older daughter.

Thank you, Lori D.!

 

What has your older DD been using, and has it clicked well for her? Can she continue with it into the higher maths? Or if it doesn't go that far, what about something like Horizons Algebra 1, Lial's Basic College Math (which is Algebra 1), or Videotext Algebra? Or Saxon or Teaching Text?



#32 Wildwood

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Posted 31 January 2018 - 02:31 PM

What has your older DD been using, and has it clicked well for her? Can she continue with it into the higher maths? Or if it doesn't go that far, what about something like Horizons Algebra 1, Lial's Basic College Math (which is Algebra 1), or Videotext Algebra? Or Saxon or Teaching Text?

 

She has used sooo many math programs....my fault!  Some Saxon, BJU, TT (and more).  She's now using No-Nonsense Algebra, and it's working okay.  She was using TT Algebra just prior, but made the switch to No-Nonsense because she felt  TT was moving way too fast for her and she was overwhelmed.  She is now feeling like No-Nonsense is moving too quickly.  We've come to the realization that she really needs a mastery-based program that will allow her to sit with a concept for a good while before moving on.  I am also realizing that she probably needs to step back to pre-algebra before working on algebra.  I've made so many mistakes along the way with math choices, and I'm sure that has contributed to her feeling less than confident and not well prepared with math overall.  I really would like to have one of those reset buttons so I could do everything over!  I feel like I really hijacked this thread - I'm sorry for that!


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#33 Lori D.

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Posted 31 January 2018 - 05:20 PM

She has used sooo many math programs....my fault!  ...  I've made so many mistakes along the way with math choices, and I'm sure that has contributed to her feeling less than confident and not well prepared with math overall.  I really would like to have one of those reset buttons so I could do everything over!  

 

:grouphug: Ugh -- much sympathy! I can hear the frustration and edge of desperation.  :grouphug:  It will be okay. I know you are doing the best you can, not being able to open up your child's head and look inside to see what needs oiling or tweaking, or what curriculum "part" would fit in there best. ;)

 

 

...Some Saxon, BJU, TT (and more).  She's now using No-Nonsense Algebra, and it's working okay.  She was using TT Algebra just prior, but made the switch to No-Nonsense because she felt  TT was moving way too fast for her and she was overwhelmed.  She is now feeling like No-Nonsense is moving too quickly.  We've come to the realization that she really needs a mastery-based program that will allow her to sit with a concept for a good while before moving on.  I am also realizing that she probably needs to step back to pre-algebra before working on algebra...

 

It sounds like DD might be on her own later timetable for "clicking" with Algebra. One idea might be to set aside Algebra and do Geometry next year, and then come back to Algebra. Another idea would be, as you say, delay starting Algebra and focus on getting solid with Pre-Algebra and foundational math (the 4 functions of add/subtract/multiply/divide with positive and negative numbers, and with fractions and decimals).

 

You know what might be helpful... Keys to Algebra series, and then Jacobs. Honestly, Jacobs really is mastery-based, and very gentle/incremental.  Oooo! I know, what about Power Basics Algebra? Power Basics are specifically designed to be very simple and incremental. 

 

Or another idea: when DD starts to feel like it's moving too quickly, switch over to Keys to Algebra for just the topic she needs more time on, which will allow her to sit longer with that concept, and then when it clicks, back to the No-Nonsense as the "spine", until it's moving a bit too fast, then back over to the Keys to Algebra for more time on a topic... etc.

 

What's great about the Keys series is that each workbook focuses on just one topic, and presents it in several different ways to help it "stick".

 

I feel like I really hijacked this thread - I'm sorry for that!

 

Not a problem. :) We're all on this journey together. :)


Edited by Lori D., 31 January 2018 - 05:24 PM.

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#34 Wildwood

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Posted 31 January 2018 - 06:31 PM

:grouphug: Ugh -- much sympathy! I can hear the frustration and edge of desperation.  :grouphug:  It will be okay. I know you are doing the best you can, not being able to open up your child's head and look inside to see what needs oiling or tweaking, or what curriculum "part" would fit in there best. ;)

 

 

 

It sounds like DD might be on her own later timetable for "clicking" with Algebra. One idea might be to set aside Algebra and do Geometry next year, and then come back to Algebra. Another idea would be, as you say, delay starting Algebra and focus on getting solid with Pre-Algebra and foundational math (the 4 functions of add/subtract/multiply/divide with positive and negative numbers, and with fractions and decimals).

 

You know what might be helpful... Keys to Algebra series, and then Jacobs. Honestly, Jacobs really is mastery-based, and very gentle/incremental.  Oooo! I know, what about Power Basics Algebra? Power Basics are specifically designed to be very simple and incremental. 

 

Or another idea: when DD starts to feel like it's moving too quickly, switch over to Keys to Algebra for just the topic she needs more time on, which will allow her to sit longer with that concept, and then when it clicks, back to the No-Nonsense as the "spine", until it's moving a bit too fast, then back over to the Keys to Algebra for more time on a topic... etc.

 

What's great about the Keys series is that each workbook focuses on just one topic, and presents it in several different ways to help it "stick".

 

 

Not a problem. :) We're all on this journey together. :)

 

 

Thanks so much for your helpfulness!

 

I think either pausing in algebra when a topic is sticky and using something like Keys To...might be a really good idea, or stepping back to pre-algebra might work well.  She definitely needs more time to sit with, and practice a concept.  I do think she has some gaps with some basics...fractions/decimals/percent, that she has had a hard time retaining.  My gut tells me she would probably benefit most by working through pre-algebra now and through the summer, and hopefully, by the start of 9th she'd be good and ready for algebra.

 

I have never heard of Power Basics.  I will definitely check that out.  Thanks so much for the suggestion : )

 

Thanks so much for taking the time out to help me think this through : )

 


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#35 kiana

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Posted 31 January 2018 - 06:49 PM

I also kinda wonder how it would work to just keep working, but slow way down -- intend on going through at half pace -- pull problems on the same topics from a different text to basically do twice as much or even more per topic.

 

I mean, there's no rule you have to do one single curriculum without deviation.

 

There are a fair number of decent free pre-algebra/algebra texts in ebook (so you could print out problems on only what you wanted) or an older edition of a developmental college text (lial/bittinger/martin-gay/aufmann/larson/many others) is pretty cheap, and they're great sources of "more practice needed". 


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