Accommodations for teen with ADHD, anger, and depression

[Zoo Keeper]

If any of you have experience in this area, I could use some help.  

 

 

 

ETA:  a huge thank you to all who helped. :)

Edited January 30, 2018 by Zoo Keeper

[2_girls_mommy]

I am a big fan of accomodating where necessary. We need to get them where they need to be. The path doesn't need to look the same as anyone else's. I have done/do many of the things you are suggesting without a moment's 2nd thought. 

[OneStepAtATime]

:grouphug: 

 

Mental health trumps academics.  If your plan seems to meet his mental health needs then do it.  If he is struggling with mental health do everything in your power to address that.  Put your focus there.  If that means doing more things with peers do that.  If it means doing only a few courses and at a basic level while he attends counseling and focuses on a healthy diet and physical activity do that.  If he needs more opportunities to pursue outside interests do that.  Do what you can to stabilize his mental health.  Without that, academics are honestly pretty meaningless.

 

Does he have an official evaluation?  If so how long ago was it and what evaluations did he have?

[Zoo Keeper]

edit for privacy

Edited December 10, 2019 by Zoo Keeper

[OneStepAtATime]

:grouphug:

 

Have you tried providing positive resources for understanding differences in processing?  Would he be willing to read about the strengths that many people that think with an ADHD type brain typically have?

 

FWIW, I found that DD was so much happier when she found out she had dyslexia but I had read a ton of materials on dyslexia and focused on her strengths.  In other words, I focused on the positive side of the dyslexia coin and she was relieved to understand why she struggled and what the benefits of her brain were (and that there ARE benefits).  The Dyslexic Advantage helped me to do that.  You might read it yourself.  While ADHD is not the primary focus of that book it has helped other parents whose children deal with differences in neurological processing that are not in the center of the bell curve (including parents with kids that struggle with ADHD type issues).

 

Whatever his strengths are, I would push hard on those.  Outside classes/tutoring/whatever you can swing.  

 

On a side note, what are the things happening that have led to the ADHD concerns?  Executive Function issues?  Focus issues?  Sequencing issues?

[jewellsmommy]

We started similar measures with dd almost 2 yrs ago. She has un-medicated (but mild) ADHD, is 2e with dysgraphia, and has some anxiety. We all went through some trauma a while back that affected her deeply. Therapy has been recommended for her, but she rejects it (part of the reason is that therapy was tied to the original trauma in the first place...sigh).

 

She is not interested in meds for the ADHD. We stuck to Jacobs algebra but spread it out over two years. We do a lot orally, and we do discussion plus open book tests for science and history. She,like your ds, is very artistic and talented. We just got some Great Course lectures on great works of art since that is right up her alley. 

 

Her standardized test scores from the last 2 years were in the same range as they have always been (our state requires testing), so these changes have not slowed her down or negatively impacted her learning.

 

I used to push hard academically, always picking the most rigorous curricula and trying to fit it all in. She can handle it intellectually, but the high level of output required is especially stressful and tiring for her. She works slow due to distraction and a lower processing speed, and she would reach a point where she would freeze-up and then withdraw. I'm very glad that we made the adjustments that we did. 

 

We still plan for her to try one dual enrollment course next year, but it will be something in the art family. 

 

 

[bibsandmegs]

I think your plan sounds great.  We do similar here with our ADHD son.  FWIW, I have older children who did DIVE and we found the tests to be extremely difficult so we did open book with those.  We changed it up for this child as the difficulty level would have created a nightmare.  

 

Best of luck!

[GoodGrief]

Focus on the mental health. If you can get him in for a neuropsych evaluation, that will be helpful. That’s where I would put all my bargaining chips, to get him going in that direction.

 

Perhaps show him what is needed for high school grad for the various options (college vs work vs military, etc). If he can see a plan, you might get some buy-in.

 

I think you are correct though, sometimes it takes a rock bottom experience. Unfortunately for our young men struggling with mental health though, the rock bottom experience involves an interaction with law enforcement, which has longer term negative consequences. So anything you can do to push back against that possible outcome, the better.

 

Hugs to you. I’ve been there.

[freesia]

I agree with the above, but with a caveat. I don't think that accomodating for mental health reasons but not actually dealing with the mental health issues is only a limited help.  I would make sure that he gets in counseling.

 

If you constantly lower the bar, but don't get help you are spinning the wheels and avoiding the problem.  He needs to learn to deal with the stress and if there is no stress, he won't learn to deal with it on his own.  A counselor can help you with a plan to help him learn better coping skills.

 

You may totally be on board and agree, but I wanted to say it bc in the past few years I've been the supportive friend who nodded and agreed with other friends that their dc with mental health issues should drop classes, not have expected output, etc. and then watch as the mental health issues did not go away on their own and the family didn't get help with them and the dc are still in the same place as before the accomodations.

 

So,  the bar should be lowered so that there is space and emotional energy for dealing with the problems--not to avoid them.

[2_girls_mommy]

After counseling with ADHD, paid vision therapy and special ed help for dyslexia for one, so many books read, workshops attended, etc. etc. We have worked out a plan in the mornings that addresses these issues as part of our schooling. We start the day with a bunch of stuff that doesn't really fit into a "class" description for high school, but that helps us out so much. I don't care that some days we spend up to 2 hrs of our school on this stuff. My kids need it. My kids actually enjoy that time together too, and it gets us off to a good start each day. I agree with trying to find the helps you need to address some of the issues too. 

[kiana]

( please don't quote )

 

My life has been so much better since I started treatment for ADHD. I never understood why I couldn't make myself do the things I wanted to do without last-minute panic driving me on. I never understood why even with the panic, I ended up mainlining caffeine to get anything done. Even *knowing* what was going on was such a huge ... benefit.

 

You mean I'm not just a lazy slob? 

Edited January 22, 2018 by kiana

[Zoo Keeper]

edited

Edited October 24, 2020 by Zoo Keeper

[Pen]

We are having issues at around the same age/grade for ds here--not exactly the same, but enough for maybe a bit of relevance.

 

Mine is in BMS school now--which does not solve the problem, but does take some of the burden off me, and allows me to wear the mom hat, but not also the teacher of everything hat.  With the yelling and book throwing, you too may have some problems with being both mom and teacher right now, and, if so, I'd suggest that outsourcing as much as you can of your ds's schoolwork could help a lot.

 

Is your ds generally angry and depressed or is it only regarding specific areas?

 

With depression, anything that is an interest seems good to have, so getting him more studio art one way or another seems like it would be a thing to prioritize.  

 

On math, a few questions jumped out at me, (and I'll erase this detail if you like after you get to see it) such as that you write that he is good at math concepts and yet having trouble with daily execution.  But then next paragraph below that, that he is having trouble with reasoning through and just needs plug and chug.  Which 2 things seemed opposite to me.   What do you see as going on?  Could executive function issues be affecting emotions and reasoning both?

 

Stalling out can sometimes be addressed by changing programs to something more suitable, or with a tutor. Often backing up to a point where all was going well and getting more secure with the easier things before coming up again to the harder ones can help.  Sometimes moving on past the stalled point to something else that is not a problem can help.  Since you are homeschooling and can do what you want, even something like working on some prealgebra, or geometry, or probability --or some very different program like Hands on Equations, or KhanAcademy, for a while, and then returning to algebra from a few chapters back from where he was when he still had mastery might help.  Sometimes a more detailed analysis of what is stalled and why can help.

 

 

I think getting your ds into counseling asap sounds important. And maybe with someone who can legally prescribe--but is open to no medicines also.   Finding a good counselor would be key.  We went to someone for ds last year, but I think the person was okay but not excellent.  In retrospect, I wish I'd maybe waited longer to find someone who might have been better.  Anyway, you might want to prioritize finding a good mental health professional right now over academics.

 

And then also prioritize good food, sleep, and so on.  It is very positive that he is having daily exercise.  Does he get outside much?  Does he have enough social time with friends?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Arcadia]

For studio art, I would consider AP Studio Art or dual enrollment for studio art. I have seen portfolios of AP Studio Art at high school open houses and my kids are very impressed even though they don’t have any interest in this area.

 

For math, would integrated math be easier for him? My kids visual spatial skills are strong and they find Algebra relatively dry. Doing geometry with algebra relieve some of their boredom. So Saxon Math or Integrated Math I, II, III might make Algebra more palatable for your son.

[Zoo Keeper]

edit for privacy

Edited December 10, 2019 by Zoo Keeper

[Zoo Keeper]

 

edited

 

 

Edited October 24, 2020 by Zoo Keeper

[Arcadia]

He does get "in the zone" in a good way when he is being creative (drawing, building models, etc.) He is not just a bundle of emotions and responses when he is creating. Oddly enough, he has zero desire to create or draw or do anything artsy for future plans, even though he is very gifted in that area. :confused1:

...

Both DH and I have the skills to take him through art basics and beyond, but I'm not sure that ds is willing to learn this from either of us right now. I might ask the guidance counselor at the local high school (where he is already on sports teams) if he can squeeze into any of the art classes.

Architecture might be another area to look at. My DS13 from outside appearance just look like another mathy kid but he loves floor plans, interior designing and architecture as well. When I ask him about studying architecture as an elective, he says he is bad at freehand drawing and so won’t succeed in architecture.

[Zoo Keeper]

 

edited

Edited October 24, 2020 by Zoo Keeper

[Pen]

 

 

I  am actually THIS close to dropping DIVE, but I don't know what I'd put in its place....maybe let Khan Academy physics finish out the year?  At least Sal Khan is more engaging than Dr. Shormann... :p Poor man, I don't think he can help it.

 

 

I hope to keep it from getting worse.  Thanks for the encouragement.

 

 

I completely agree--the struggle has been to get him to even consider counseling.  I've been trying for over a year.  This is the first he is willing to do it.

 

 

When he is not stressed, he is very quick in math concepts, quick to see patterns, quick to extrapolate--but can make silly mistakes like forgetting negative signs--because he was sloppy, in a hurry, just forgot.  But with all his emotional meltdowns (daily events, lately) over little things and feeling "like a failure!"  I thought more problems that required less reasoning that he could get right in his non-rational state might help build confidence and get him over this hump.  Hence the plug and chug idea. I thought about adding in Khan Academy -- whatever topics he wants-- for fun. It has been a good extra for him in the past.  I'm also going to throw Alcumus out there and see if he nibbles. I still want him to get enough in for a Algebra 1 credit, if possible.  Even if it's a rather low achieving Algebra 1 credit.  

 

 

 

 

science:  I don't know DIVE.  what does your ds want to do "when he grows up" and how much science does that take?  Maybe something very different like an environmental science unit or botany would be better for him right now than physics.  Even though he is bright maybe you are expecting too much which adds to him feeling like a failure?  If he must do some physics, Glencoe Science, Physical Science, McLaughlin Thompson Zike seems reasonably approachable for 9th grade level where someone has not yet mastered algebra.  I'm not familiar with Khan for physics, but would be surprised if it is something he could master without having first mastered algebra.

 

 

math:  I strongly suggest you let him go back to a math level where he can do it and is confident and does not feel like a failure--but of a type that fit his strengths in concepts rather than his weakness which seems to be plug and chug calculation.  Khan and or Alcumus, if they work for him, are fine IME.  

 

Try: Fewer problems, much easier level, to try to build his confidence back.  Maybe a few shorter sessions so that he does not go on to frustration point--or deliberately stopping with a success.  .Maybe take responsibility for there being a possible hole in his past math that could be causing trouble now, and that you want to go back and find out.  What exactly has he stalled out on?  And what was the last that he had full mastery on?  If you are not sure, going through Khan might help pinpoint that.

[freesia]

Re:counseling. It's awesome he has agreed. Even if he stops, though, I highly recommend doing counseling yourself (preferably with the counselor who sees/ saw him). We had great success with this with one of ours who refused counseling, as did s good friend whose dd refused.

[katilac]

You mentioned a sport outside of the house that will stay unless he decides against it. I personally would not give him the choice of deciding against it. He needs to get out of the house (particularly important for teens prone to depression) and he needs exercise (also important for depression and anger and ADHD). If you can add even more exercise, I would. I would also require daily time outside, even if he refuses to do anything but sulk, lol. 

 

Science:  is he just starting the physics portion or is he working to finish it? If he hasn't done chemistry yet, I wouldn't recommend it for someone struggling in algebra. There is so. much. math! I would change the course to conceptual physics and get a corresponding textbook (delete what he has already covered). 

 

I would consider not giving him a choice about seeing a specialist. You know him best, but many kids who refuse to do something will grudgingly cooperate if required (ie, will not refuse to talk to the specialist once forced into the room with him). 

 

fwiw, my dd took two agonizing years to get through algebra, there was much crying and yelling, but she is now a math minor who has gone through calculus A-B-C and is currently enjoying linear algebra. 

 

If tests are a source of stress, would he be willing to read and discuss history with you? You might be doing this already. We never did formal tests in history, because I was reading and discussing with them every day. I didn't need to gauge their understanding, daily discussion made it clear. It's not like a class of 30 where some students never participate, kwim? 

[katilac]

I forgot about math: if you are doing something basic anyway, I would consider something online like Aleks, which gauges their readiness for various topics based on an initial assessment and then the lessons they complete. In other words, it does not open topics for study until it considers the student ready for them, as opposed to a book that just goes in a specific order. Of the topics that are open, you get a lot of choice in what to work on each day. 

 

If he is currently self-studying, it might be an easier route for him. Likewise, if you are teaching lessons and that is a source of contention, Aleks would remove that negative interaction. 

[PeterPan]

I hope to come back and comment after supper clean up and getting the younger ones in bed. 

 

I am thinking through each post, and am grateful for the ideas and support.  It means so much to not feel alone in this.

 

I might be able to use the family doc to get a referral to a clinical psychologist, in addition to counseling with our pastor (whom ds has a rapport with, so that may work well for ds...)   I'm calling the dr office in the morning to see how this can work. 

 

I am open to more discussion or suggestions.    We need all the help we can get. :001_unsure:

 

 

He has had strong ADHD flags since early childhood; we were hoping some of it would even out with maturity, but no. He is sooo easily distracted by everything.  Really everything. He has no filters. His EF is great--when he is focused, which doesn't happen that much.  He does get "in the zone"  in a good way when he is being creative (drawing, building models, etc.)  He is not just a bundle of emotions and responses when he is creating.  Oddly enough, he has zero desire to create or draw or do anything artsy for future plans, even though he is very gifted in that area. :confused1:

...

When he is not stressed, he is very quick in math concepts, quick to see patterns, quick to extrapolate--but can make silly mistakes like forgetting negative signs--because he was sloppy, in a hurry, just forgot.  But with all his emotional meltdowns (daily events, lately) over little things and feeling "like a failure!"  I thought more problems that required less reasoning that he could get right in his non-rational state might help build confidence and get him over this hump.  Hence the plug and chug idea. I thought about adding in Khan Academy -- whatever topics he wants-- for fun. It has been a good extra for him in the past.  I'm also going to throw Alcumus out there and see if he nibbles. I still want him to get enough in for a Algebra 1 credit, if possible.  Even if it's a rather low achieving Algebra 1 credit.  

...

 

Both DH and I have the skills to take him through art basics and beyond,  but I'm not sure that ds is willing to learn this from either of us right now.  I might ask the guidance counselor at the local high school (where he is already on sports teams) if he can squeeze into any of the art classes. 

 

Not to be too snarky, but if your pastor is doing the counseling, that's why your son won't go on meds. Pastors have exceptionally little training in DSM and know NOTHING about brain development, genetics, EF, etc. It's not what they're trained in. If you want to say it's a character problem, fine. If you want to say it's a sin problem, fine. But to send a boy who needs help with ADHD and executive function to a pastor is telling him it's those things (sin and bad character), not a genetic, developmental disorder causing EF and self-regulation issues and something that he actually needs HELP with.

 

Many people are going to struggle with their EF and need solid strategies and supports, even when they want to do better. You've got a growing boy going through his teen years, trying to figure out himself (the normal stuff of being a teen) AND his disability at the same time.

 

It sounds like he needs Zones of Regulation to work. Also, honestly, I think sometimes the academic advice on the boards can shift our perspective on what is normal till we shy as "not good enough" things that would be much better fits for our kids. 

 

If I could make a really radical suggestion, go pick a bunch of things that are TOO EASY. Like seriously. On the math, what program are you like oh I would never use that with him because it's cr*p and not good enough... Get that for him. Get his work so straightforward, so clear, so structured, so within reach that his big challenge is wrangling with himself, not fighting the curriculum or the modality.

 

I don't know, that's just my hindsight. My dd is straight ADHD, and she uses her accommodations now in college. She's super bright and actually had really good test scores, but there was just this point where I had to let go of "this is what it means to do a good job" and move on to "this is what she can really do that really works for her."

 

When you get the work really within reach, like crazy within reach, definitely doable, something clicks in their mind. Or maybe he'll be bored, I don't know him, lol. But be radical. Ask yourself what it would take and shut out other voices and just look at him.

 

Yes, you need a clinical psych eval. Yes, he needs some time with someone who has more positive ways of expressing disabilities. Besides, maybe you don't even have the right words. He sounds pretty self-aware. He could just be gifted. Some kids with a higher IQ will have EF deficits and not even GET an ADHD label. 

 

He needs some time around people who are comfortable with themselves and their disabilities, people who use their tools, so he can normalize this and be more confident. Disabilities often have a SUPERPOWER. You really need some positive, uplifting sources right now.

 

For the Zones of Reg, you can buy the book. You could try to find an educational therapist. (There's a certification for it.) Or there are psychs who do CBT. I found a really good CBT counselor using the Focus on the Family provider locator. That might give you someone you feel comfortable with for your faith who would have more training in disabilities.

SaveSave

Edited January 25, 2018 by PeterPan

[PeterPan]

On the meds, that might be a decision better made after psych evals and some CBT. He's really old enough to participate in that. If he got some CBT, did Zones of Reg, he could go ok I'm using these tools and this is how far I got and I want more.

 

You could run his genetics on 23andme and then through promethease to show him his ADHD genes. He could do a trial of low dose caffeine to see if he likes how it feels. 

 

Even meds are not a substitute for gaining all the other tools. Btw, my dd did have some retained reflexes. They're pretty common in ADHD. You could google for the tests and run through them together.

 

Really, that would be so good if you could move beyond the freak thing, get the right words, and get him empowered to make choices. Right now, with no evals, he has no info. Psych testing will give him processing speed. For many kids with ADHD, the discrepancy between processing speed and IQ is VERY frustrating. Depending on how discrepant it is, the meds can make a HUGE difference. Like my dd went from *no* scholarships to *top tier* scholarships with the bump with meds. That's pretty crazy huge. Kids vary, but he doesn't have any information right now to understand what effect they would have or why they might be useful to him. He might change his mind after a psych eval and better info.

 

How is he with background noise? Some kids will have APD on top of this. My dd is borderline. It's something that some audiologists specialize in screening for. 

 

Another helpful thing he's about at the right age for or to consider soon is career testing. My dd did the Strongs Interest Inventory, and that was really useful to her. Sometimes psychs will do the testing on teens as part of the evals, but my dd did hers during DE.

[PeterPan]

Definitely figure out who he's mirroring with the bad attitudes on disabilities and get him a different influence. That's really not going to be helpful to him. 

 

I'm all for using lots of other options, flexing academics, choosing careers that work for you the way you really are, owning your body, etc., sure. LOTS of adults compensate for their ADHD and don't use meds. It's not like some death sentence. Well that's not true, the driving accident rates are much higher, sigh. But that self-regulation piece, that's pretty big. Without some tools for THAT, he's going to have difficulty holding a job, being a pleasant marriage partner, etc. He really needs some better tools there.

 

SocialThinking.com has GREAT tools for self-regulation. You can go in their pulldowns and search by diagnosis. They have a Social Communications Profile article you might find interesting. Socialthinking - Articles

[Zoo Keeper]

On 1/25/2018 at 12:59 AM, PeterPan said:

edited

 

Edited October 24, 2020 by Zoo Keeper

[kiana]

You know, the way I made it through college/grad coursework (w/o treatment) was gamifying literally everything. Everything was about earning "points".

 

If there's a way to gamify his math practice (even if it results in "easier"), would he be open to it? I'm thinking of something with immediate feedback and experience points earned for answering questions. 

[Pen]

One Step, he only has a dx for the ADHD from our family doc, because that is as far as he was willing to discuss anything.  Dr. wanted to refer him to a specialist, but ds was NOT willing to go. Ds doesn't want to be labeled as "some kind of freak!"

 

Basically, he has had to hit bottom before being willing to consider anything. :crying:

 

 

I realize that he would be too big and strong to carry him to specialist like a 5 year old.  But if you have possible referral to specialist, I think you should do what you can to get ds to go to that--using rewards or incentives or whatever.  It is possible that the specialist will even find something different than what the primary care doc suspects.

 

Your son needs to change his view of someone with adhd (etc.) as being a "freak".   Both for how he views himself and also for how he views others.

 

There are some things, eg maybe military, where and adhd diagnosis will create a barrier.  But the way he is doing does not sound like he will be able to handle something like that without getting help for whatever is going on anyway.

 

Perhaps some films or books about that could help.

 

In general I would not think a pastor likely to be much help in regard to what is going on, but if ds is willing to see pastor, could pastor be requested to help ds to change his view of people with adhd as freaks and to help persuade ds to go to a proper specialist?