Growing up poor

[saraha]

Speaking of when we felt we had truly arrived, but for me, instead of rain boots, it was dress shoes.  When we only had one or two kids and they were very small, I was obsessed with them having a nice looking pair of dress shoes (even if they were second hand, as long as they looked good...) now, 6 kids later, I am just glad we get to church and everyone has appropriate for the weather shoes. Although a couple of weeks ago, my youngest got out the door and to church wearing a pair of his sisters bright red snow boots just because he hoped it would snow while we were there. I was kind of emabarrassed then.

[wapiti]

We could afford whatever they need, but I only buy my kids dress shoes when they have a special event (like a sacrament).  They wear sneakers to church.  Typically, they only have one pair of sneakers at any given time.  It's hard enough to keep up with their current sizes just with sneakers, let alone additional shoes.

 

When their feet stop growing, maybe they'll want/need more, as is the case with my dd16, who naturally has a variety now, got expensive boots for Christmas, etc.  My 14 y.o. boys, not so much LOL (ok one needed dress shoes to wear with a tie at school but the other one, not yet, and it doesn't seem that either one's feet have stopped growing).

Edited January 16, 2018 by wapiti

[SKL]

In my childhood, we got most of our clothes from the Salvation Army or similar.  It used to be a slur to say someone's clothes came from there.  Even in grad school I had someone make a remark.  I hope that is not a thing any more.

 

I still wear many hand-me-downs (and my kids wear some), and I'm proud of being able to keep nice clothes in circulation as long as possible.

 

I am also still wearing a dress coat and a jacket my mom bought me for Christmas when I was a young adult.  (I'm 51.)  The jacket has a troubled zipper, but I still wear it.  A couple years ago I finally replaced my decades-old everyday winter coat which I'd bought at Sam's Club.  I got a new one for my birthday.  Those are all my coats.  I have 1 pair of shoes that I wear 99.9% of the times that I wear shoes at all.  The other .1% I wear a pair of heels I bought decades ago, along with a suit I bought decades ago.  I get comments about wearing the same thing so many times.  I don't care.  I think such judgments are completely silly.

 

My kids generally have 1 or 2 useable coats at any given time.  The 2nd will be a gift from someone other than me.  I believe 1 coat is enough.  :)  My kids do need boots for school, but they get them as gifts.

 

Maybe the thing I go nuts on is socks.  My kids have tons of socks.

Edited January 16, 2018 by SKL

[Guest]

It just affects some people differently. I don't 'hate' the childhood I had....I learned great lessons and hard work and yes I can handle hard times better than most. It is the good times I have trouble with. Not being able to enjoy what I do have for the fear that is residing just below the surface during every financial transaction.

I’d say I had a great childhood! Everyone was poor and lots were poorer than us.

But, I will always live with that panicked feeling. What if this all goes away? What if I don’t buy enough food?? I should buy two loaves of bread now, just in case. It is stressful.

[Debbi in Texas]

My mom never bought us winter clothes. Never one time did they purchase a pullover sweater or cardigan, or even long sleeve clothes.. Never bought us boots of any kind. I remember purchasing a winter coat myself with my own money. Never bought school clothes. I remember making a skirt or two myself, just a basic A-line skirt. I went to work at 16 and started buying everything for myself. Then she wouldn't keep my sisters from using my things.

[BarbecueMom]

Did anyone else have to answer the phone and talk to bill collectors, because their parents quit answering and if you wanted to talk to your friends, you had to dodge those calls?  And now the poor receptionist at the dentist office is just calling to confirm an appointment and you're all, "SHE CAN'T COME TO THE PHONE STOP CALLING ME... uh, sorry, hi."

 

Good times.   :glare:

Edited January 16, 2018 by BarbecueMom

[Scarlett]

I’d say I had a great childhood! Everyone was poor and lots were poorer than us.

But, I will always live with that panicked feeling. What if this all goes away? What if I don’t buy enough food?? I should buy two loaves of bread now, just in case. It is stressful.

 

 

Yep.  I would really love to get over it.  

[saraha]

Did anyone else have to answer the phone and talk to bill collectors, because their parents quit answering and if you wanted to talk to your friends, you had to dodge those calls?  And now the poor receptionist at the dentist office is just calling to confirm an appointment and you're all, "SHE CAN'T COME TO THE PHONE STOP CALLING ME... uh, sorry, hi."

 

Good times.   :glare:

 

Even now, although caller ID is available we don't have it, I use our machine to screen every single call. My kids think it is totally normal and never answer the phone until someone starts talking on the machine!

[KungFuPanda]

I still panic a little when the grocery register takes its sweet time to process my card.

Edited January 16, 2018 by KungFuPanda

[barnwife]

I've been trying to convince myself for years that it's okay to buy myself snowpants so I can go out with the kids more comfortably sometimes. I still haven't done it. I did buy myself a pair of snow boots from Goodwill though. And this past summer I bought a new-to-me winter coat. My old one is from my first year of college (a long time ago now) and the zipper doesn't work. I still feel slightly guilty for spending that $3 on a new-to-me coat.

As for Kleenex, we always had it growing up,in spite of not having much money. But as a grownup, I rarely buy it. We have TP and handkerchiefs. Once my mom came to visit and was horrified by the no-Kleenex thing. So I now make sure I have a box before my parents come over.

My kids have way more coats and shoes than is necessary, but 99% of them are hand-me-downs. DD currently has no less than seven spring jackets.

[Garga]

We weren’t so poor that bills couldn’t be paid, but we had no wiggle room when I was growing up. No kleenex—it was TP. No new clothes, it was always Good Will. And it was just 4 outfits to last me through the school year, so whatever I wore on Monday is what I’d wear on Friday. Shoes were bought at the cheapest stores and looked cheap and I got made fun of for my two pairs of shoes I had a year-sneakers and ‘dressy’ for church.

 

When we were told to bring in some Al foil to school for a project, my mom sent me with a square of foil she’d pulled off the roll, while all the other kids just brought in a whole roll and ripped off what they needed. And when we were told to bring chips or cookies to school for a party, I always brought the store brand. As a kid it was embarrassing, even though now I’m fine with store brand.

 

We didn’t go out to eat, except maybe once every couple of years. When I graduated high school there was no party, there was no gift of hundreds of dollars for my future, there was no present. We went out to eat at Hardees and I got a chicken sandwich, fries, and a coke and we went home. Wait—my parents had an old watch that had been handed down and they got it repaired for me. So, I did get a present. And it was a lovely old watch, so I’m not complaining, but they couldn’t afford anything new, so it was just the repaired watch.

 

We would eat horrible cuts of meat that were mostly grisle because we couldn’t afford anything better, but at least we had some meat, so that was good. Veggies were always canned as frozen or fresh was too expensive. We had one car, so my mom just stopped driving entirely. And the cars never had a/c in muggy Maryland heat, because a/c was too expensive. The house didn’t have it either. We had one a/c unit in my parent’s bedroom and once in a while they’d let me sleep on the floor of their room if it was brually hot and I couldn’t sleep because it was so muggy. We finally got a 2nd a/c unit when I was in my late teens for the livingroom and we’d hang sheets up across the archway to the diningroom and on the staircase to trap the air in the room.

 

One tv and it was black and white until when I was in middle school—color was too expensive. Got a microwave when I was 17 because we couldn’t afford one before then. No cable—too expensive. Those were all out of reach luxuries.

 

When I got married at 19, my dh and I both had cars—with a/c because my dh made sure I bought one with a/c, our apartment had a/c, and we had cable. It was like heaven! No more arriving to work drenched in sweat!? Central a/c!? Cable!? I felt like I had arrived.

 

I’m still very, very frugal. My DH is, too, but I don’t know why. His parents had a dual income and they always bought the newest gadets. They’d be the sort who had a microwave as soon as they came out. They like to buy things on the upper limits, like if there’s a $40 microwave, that’s the one I get, but they’ll get the one that’s $250. My DH always had new clothes, his parents helped him with college (this was the days when you could work part time and pay it off in a year, so he did work and pay for it, but they helped), he had a/c and cable and new gadgets and big Christmases. I have no idea why he’s so frugal, because he wasn’t used to it growing up.

 

Like someone’s tea kettle above, I am the sort to keep using something until it’s so worn out that people look at me a little funny wondering why I’m using something so ragged. I’m finally starting to all myself to replace ratty things before they’re falling completely apart. But it’s not easy. Like, I really ought to get some better bathroom hand towels...but I can’t bring myself to do it. I might get them for myself for Christmas on a Black Friday sale. Maybe. I was going to do that last year, but I think they can hold out for another year.

 

I remember when my dh did the math and it was cheaper to buy a brand new car rather than a used one due to some changes in gas mileage technology a few years ago. He drives 80 miles a day, so getting good gas mileage was important and buying the new model of car would end up being cheaper in the long run. But the idea of paying for a Brand New Car made me feel sick inside and I had to excuse myself from the little office where we were signing papers and go sob in the car because of the anxiety I was feeling about spending all that money on something new.

 

I try to have balance. My kids don’t live the way I did. We take them out to eat, we buy them new clothes, and they eat fresh or frozen veggies and better (but not the best) cuts of meat. They know there are limits to the money we have, but it’s just not the same as when I was growing up. Like, do you know how mean kids can be when you have only 4 outfits for an entire school year? Urgh. My kids don’t deal with that. They have many more things and opportunities than I did.

 

However, I loved my mother like a best friend and she could make anything hilarious, so I was happy. I just didn’t have possessions and now I’m funny about spending too much. My childhood friend knows I have issues and when her husband heard me complaining about spending money on something he said to her, “Do you think she needs us to help her out? A loan or something?†My friend said, “Garga is the most well off “poor†person you know. She isn’t poor. She just sometimes thinks she is. She doesn’t need a loan.†And I didn’t and I didn’t mean for him to think I did. I just don’t like parting with my money because I grew up without money to part with.

Edited January 16, 2018 by Garga

[bolt.]

My husband has these reactions like some of you, and I think I need to be more understanding. I don't have this background or this reaction at all.

 

He often lashes out in a generally foul mood if there is any kind of unexpected expense, or even a reasonably large planned expense. It's like he has the "head knowledge" that all of these things are easily covered, but something is just gnawing away at him anyways.

 

It comes out in him finding any purchase-adjacent flaw (person, object or mild peeve at the wrong time) to be irrationally angry about. His reactivity usually fades when one of us notices that it's probably a manifestation of his discomfort with spending anything on anything. I'm usually frustrated and dismissive, but it sounds like that's pretty unkind of me. Compassion is called for.

[Crimson Wife]

DH grew up lower middle class while I grew up upper middle class. What drives me nuts about him is that he is "penny wise but pound foolish". He wants to buy the absolute cheapest thing even if it is junk that will quickly need to be replaced rather than spending more up front for a quality item that will actually save money in the long run because it will last.

 

He also is terrified of ALL debt, not just high interest debt on depreciating items. He has a MBA in finance so intellectually he knows that leverage can be a smart decision. But there's this total disconnect between his brain and his emotions when it comes to debt.

 

He also gets in a bad mood when there is a large expense to be paid like the annual property taxes or the semi-annual auto & property insurance bills. He was the one who chose to set it up this way rather than doing monthly payments. He just doesn't like to see that big hit to our savings even if he knows it's coming.

[Garga]

My husband has these reactions like some of you, and I think I need to be more understanding. I don't have this background or this reaction at all.

 

He often lashes out in a generally foul mood if there is any kind of unexpected expense, or even a reasonably large planned expense. It's like he has the "head knowledge" that all of these things are easily covered, but something is just gnawing away at him anyways.

 

It comes out in him finding any purchase-adjacent flaw (person, object or mild peeve at the wrong time) to be irrationally angry about. His reactivity usually fades when one of us notices that it's probably a manifestation of his discomfort with spending anything on anything. I'm usually frustrated and dismissive, but it sounds like that's pretty unkind of me. Compassion is called for.

 

 

DH grew up lower middle class while I grew up upper middle class. What drives me nuts about him is that he is "penny wise but pound foolish". He wants to buy the absolute cheapest thing even if it is junk that will quickly need to be replaced rather than spending more up front for a quality item that will actually save money in the long run because it will last.

 

He also is terrified of ALL debt, not just high interest debt on depreciating items. He has a MBA in finance so intellectually he knows that leverage can be a smart decision. But there's this total disconnect between his brain and his emotions when it comes to debt.

 

He also gets in a bad mood when there is a large expense to be paid like the annual property taxes or the semi-annual auto & property insurance bills. He was the one who chose to set it up this way rather than doing monthly payments. He just doesn't like to see that big hit to our savings even if he knows it's coming.

 

 

My DH is this way, too, even though (as I said above), he was the one in the well-off family growing up and my family was not.  

 

Christmas is a tricky time for us.  He had huge Christmases, and somehow all the things he got left him feeling dissatisfied. He wants to be really Scroogy about Christmas for our kids.  

 

I had teeny-tiny Christmases.  There was the year that my parents bought me leg warmers (it was the 80s).  They were super cheap and thin and had ugly patterns, but they knew leg warmers were all the rage, so they found some for me.  In order to make Christmas seem bigger, they wrapped each warmer separately--so for one pair, there were two packages.  That was the same year they got me a horrible pair of nurse shoes with velcro.  They knew that velcro sneakers were a big deal, but these were things a nurse would wear.  I knew they couldn't afford anything else, so I pretended to love them and I wore those hideous things and bore up under the raised eyebrows and snarky comments of the other kids at school.  Other kids came to school with an entire new wardrobe after Christmas, so it was tough to deal with at age 14.   

 

Anyway...so my dh doesn't like it when Christmas is big because he thinks it generates a sense of greediness.  I don't like it when they're small because I'm just sick of small Christmases and realized a few years ago that they don't have to be anymore.  

 

But DH hates to see the money drop down in the bank, so I save up cash all year long for Christmas and I hide it in a bundle in the house.  Then, right before I buy the presents (usually online), I deposit the hunk of money in the bank.  DH never has a chance to see the account dip down.  The account shoots up with the saved money, the money is spent, and then the account looks completely normal when I'm done.  

 

I'm not sure why he's the one who gets anxious about is as I find his family to be awfully wasteful about things and that's what he was raised with, while we had to be super careful, but there you go.  I've learned to work around his anxiety about big hunks of money leaving and spending money on Christmas.  As long as he doesn't see the money go, and as long as I'm the one hitting the "pay now" button, he's ok with it.

 

He gets funny about other bills, but I really can't hide bundles of money around the house, so we just deal with those.  And I remember that I was the one sobbing in the car when we bought a new car.  I still am bothered by it and it's been 5 years.  :)

Edited January 16, 2018 by Garga

[Garga]

There was a thread recently about would you spend the $300 it costs for a ticket to Hamilton and I just wanted to sit here giving an unbelieving laugh.  $300 per person for a play?  For a few hours and it's gone forever?  Because it's never just $300.  It's $300 for you, plus $300 for your DH.  And are you going to leave the kids at home?  No.  I would never in a million years be ok with spending $1200 for the 4 of us to go see it.  

 

I go every Tuesday to the $5 movies and I cringe about spending that money.  I got a movie pass for $10 a month, so it's only $2.50 a trip (I go 4 times a month), and I'm finally ok with that.  I was getting anxious about the $20 a month I was spending on myself.  It was $240 a  year and that felt like waaay too much. 

 

$1200 for a single show?  No.  Never.  I just couldn't bring myself to do it, even if I had the money.

Edited January 16, 2018 by Garga

[BarbecueMom]

I just balked but spent $400 on new high quality snow/rain boots for everyone. We can swing it with some budgeting, but it isn’t easy. However that wouldn’t even be an option for a number of families, and I am very grateful we don’t have to hope a decent team turns up thrift or goes on sale when we really need it.

 

I still had to hold my nose when I pressed checkout, but at least I didn’t have to ration food for it. The blessings of a good job in a good part of the country are something I’m going to pause and be grateful for right now.

 

:grouphug:

 

I started buying Bogs for the kids, but it takes me two or three times to add them to the cart and take them back out before I can hit the submit button.

 

The only thing I hate more than spending money on a name-brand item is bending over to shove the feet of inattentive children into boots.

Edited January 16, 2018 by BarbecueMom

[sassenach]

Did anyone else have to answer the phone and talk to bill collectors, because their parents quit answering and if you wanted to talk to your friends, you had to dodge those calls? And now the poor receptionist at the dentist office is just calling to confirm an appointment and you're all, "SHE CAN'T COME TO THE PHONE STOP CALLING ME... uh, sorry, hi."

 

Good times. :glare:

Yep. Actually, your door hanger post is how I feel every time our home phone rings. My cell phone, no biggie. The home phone, I pretty much never answer it.

[TrilliumSimile]

Wow, this thread is full of so many relatable things! I grew up really poor, and now my family is very comfortable. You'd think that I would be able to really relish and be grateful for that comfort, but instead I frequently catch myself living in a state of fear, shame, and paranoia about it. 

 

I just bought my child rain boots, but was completely unable to buy them for myself. It just seemed so outlandish, like something a rich person would do. I simply couldn't do it. My husband often has to "order" me to buy things like that, or I'll have to ask for his help or permission to do something like go get a haircut. 

 

I really relate to the worried feelings about Kleenex and paper towels. I came out of my family of origin with deeply anxious, shame-filled (but vague and obviously incorrect) ideas like "A roll of paper towels should last you the rest of your life". I bought a box of Kleenex when we moved into this house, and now it's down to one or two remaining tissues in the box, and I can tell I'm going to have an impossible time replacing it. Slow down, Rockefeller! Blow your noise on toilet paper, if you absolutely have to. I've gotten around some of that by using Amazon's subscription service. If the paper towels (or sponges, or whatever) just magically show up at my house, I'll use them. If I have to go to a store and buy them, I'll put it off and put it off and still feel really badly about it. 

 

As a person born in one social class and now living in another, it has made me feel pretty sure that growing up in poverty wires you in certain ways that are hard to get away from. I feel a lot of empathy for anyone living in poverty or even for people like me, who are still learning to believe that the world can have abundance and safety in it.

 

Thanks for sharing, you guys. 

 

:grouphug:

Edited January 16, 2018 by TrilliumSimile

[sassenach]

Ooh, just thought of a big one for me. Reliable cars. We had a van growing up that would break down so often, we had a system for dealing with it. The thing's transmission was always on the fritz and it would overheat if you ever had to sit idle (in LA- land of the idling car). It was a totally normal thing to have to pull over to add transmission fluid, coolant, pump up a flattening tire for the 3rd time on a long drive... 

 

 

Edited January 16, 2018 by Sassenach

[TrilliumSimile]

My husband has these reactions like some of you, and I think I need to be more understanding. I don't have this background or this reaction at all.

 

He often lashes out in a generally foul mood if there is any kind of unexpected expense, or even a reasonably large planned expense. It's like he has the "head knowledge" that all of these things are easily covered, but something is just gnawing away at him anyways.

 

I have struggled, as a parent, to learn to recognize when I'm having an emotional response rather than an objective one when my child breaks things like kids do. A while ago my DS lost a piece of clothing at the park. Objectively it wasn't a big deal, it was cheap to buy and cheap to replace, we are very comfortable and can easily afford it. But I felt so much fear and such an intense urge to shame him for it. I kept it together, but my goodness, it was a wakeup call to me to notice how often I feel the urge to lash out when something like that happens, when something is broken/wasted, etc. It's been difficult to notice how this type of... I almost want to say brainwashing? is still present in my life. Really challenging, and I'm the one having it! So I can imagine that it's difficult to observe and live with in a spouse. Your post is a good reminder to me to be more clear with my own spouse when the crazy comes over me. Sigh. 

[fairfarmhand]

My kids feel sorry for my childhood. I wore tattered clothing, shoes with holes, we lived in places with holes in the floor. 

 

But it never occurred to me that we were poor. 

 

BECAUSE I KNEW PEOPLE WITH FAR LESS.

[MedicMom]

My first two, my second two and my last all have SUCH different approaches to life. The first two never ask for anything, eat whatever is in front of them, thank me for everything. The second two ask for treats, are picky eaters, Expect to go shopping, and are generally pretty secure in their financial support expectations. The baby is SPOILED. She expects to receive everything she wants, always expects to get her own way, immediate gratification.

 

It's so crazy to me that I can map exactly how our lives have been and how it has effected them.

I see this as well. My parents spent most of my childhood and early teen years as poverty level/lower middle class. When I was in college, my dad started a company that catered to the gas and oil industry and it was right time right place. They are now, income wise, upper middle class at the lowest. I am seventeen years older than my youngest sibling, and the differences between the oldest three and the youngest three in my family are vast. It is really interesting to me, sociologically, the effect of growing up poor vs growing up wealthy has had on full siblings. My youngest sisters can not fathom a world where they can’t just go into the kitchen and eat everything in sight, order a pizza whenever they want, or go to the movies just because they want to.

[fairfarmhand]

Ooh, just thought of a big one for me. Reliable cars. We had a van growing up that would break down so often, we had a system for dealing with it. The thing's transmission was always on the fritz and it would overheat if you ever had to sit idle (in LA- land of the idling car). It was a totally normal thing to have to pull over to add transmission fluid, coolant, pump up a flattening tire for the 3rd time on a long drive... 

oh yeah.

 

My dh bought me a nicer used car. I still am SOOO thankful for a car with a/c that works properly and that I'm not left stuck on the side of the road. Tires that don't go flat and it's an aberration for one of our vehicles to not want to start. 

 

I never get over the "I love this car" 

 

Here's the kicker. It's a 2010 Impala. Far from a "Fancy" car, Just a basic sedan. But I love my car,

[Janie Grace]

Every time I throw away a sandwich bag (don't rinse and reuse), I feel rich (and a little defiant).

[JennyD]

I have struggled, as a parent, to learn to recognize when I'm having an emotional response rather than an objective one when my child breaks things like kids do. A while ago my DS lost a piece of clothing at the park. Objectively it wasn't a big deal, it was cheap to buy and cheap to replace, we are very comfortable and can easily afford it. But I felt so much fear and such an intense urge to shame him for it. I kept it together, but my goodness, it was a wakeup call to me to notice how often I feel the urge to lash out when something like that happens, when something is broken/wasted, 

 

Oh my goodness, this really hits home for me.  I get so upset when my children lose or damage something, but it has taken me a while to fully grasp that it is about me, not them.

[BarbecueMom]

 

As a person born in one social class and now living in another, it has made me feel pretty sure that growing up in poverty wires you in certain ways that are hard to get away from. I feel a lot of empathy for anyone living in poverty or even for people like me, who are still learning to believe that the world can have abundance and safety in it.

 

Thanks for sharing, you guys. 

 

:grouphug:

 

I just wanted to quote this and reiterate it for anyone living through this right now.  You are not ruining your kids lives by struggling, not at all.  Most of us have taken the hardship and flipped it into a comfortable adulthood.  Yes we have our scars, and it takes many years (34 and still working on it) to make peace with parts of it, but the empathy and understanding sticks with us in a way that is hard to grasp without experience.  We appreciate what was done to try to make things work, even if we can't always say or show it.  Even if we spout off how we would have done it better (20yo me, I'm looking at you).  The paradigm shift from survival to abundance is hard - but much harder the other way around.

 

There's a visual I have in my head of my mom barely treading water, holding my brother and me above her head.  There's appreciation in that, but also guilt.  It's normal.  We get through it, every single day.

[Guest]

Ooh, just thought of a big one for me. Reliable cars. We had a van growing up that would break down so often, we had a system for dealing with it. The thing's transmission was always on the fritz and it would overheat if you ever had to sit idle (in LA- land of the idling car). It was a totally normal thing to have to pull over to add transmission fluid, coolant, pump up a flattening tire for the 3rd time on a long drive...

Yep. And now I’m always telling the kids “quiet, the van made a noise†even though it was probably nothing.

[Lady Florida.]

Did anyone else have to answer the phone and talk to bill collectors, because their parents quit answering and if you wanted to talk to your friends, you had to dodge those calls? 

 

Sometimes they came to the door and we had to be dead quiet while they knocked and rang the bell, until whoever it was finally gave up and left. We had to sit quietly away from any windows.

 

We wore second hand clothes when it was far from chic to do so. I know people who get really nice clothes at thrift shops but I have a hard time buying such things for myself. They still feel like the hand me downs I wore as a kid. I don't hold on to much else in the way of trauma though.

 

My mother was born to poor parents, in the middle of the Great Depression. She went through WWII rationing. And eventually she ended up a single mom (divorced, then my dad died). I have been fortunate to break the cycle. While I'm still careful with money I have been able to get over the fear of buying things. Dh grew up comfortable (his dad was a bank VP) but he's still a bit of a tightwad, probably because his parents were also Depression babies. 

Edited January 16, 2018 by Lady Florida.

[BarbecueMom]

Sometimes they came to the door and we had to be dead quiet while they knocked and rang the bell, until whoever it was finally gave up and left. We had to sit quietly away from any windows.

 

 

Yep, deputy with eviction paperwork.  He must have figured out that if he came by in the morning, I'd have to open the door to get to the bus stop in time.  Lovely way to start the school day.

[Ottakee]

My kids feel sorry for my childhood. I wore tattered clothing, shoes with holes, we lived in places with holes in the floor.

 

But it never occurred to me that we were poor.

 

BECAUSE I KNEW PEOPLE WITH FAR LESS.

We weren't quite that poor but close. But like you, we never really felt poor as everyone else in our community was in the same boat.

 

We did have a car that we could "ice-skate" in during the winter.....the rear floorboards had holes in them and water would get in and freeze and make a "skating rink" in the floorboards. We all actually remember that rather fondly.

[Lady Florida.]

 

 

But it never occurred to me that we were poor. 

 

BECAUSE I KNEW PEOPLE WITH FAR LESS.

 

 

We weren't quite that poor but close. But like you, we never really felt poor as everyone else in our community was in the same boat.

 

 

 

It was the opposite for us. We lived in government housing. We were the poor relations. We were among the poorest kids in our school. We knew without a doubt we were poor. And the kids who were better off than us? They did not let us forget that we were poor.

[Scarlett]

I just wanted to quote this and reiterate it for anyone living through this right now.  You are not ruining your kids lives by struggling, not at all.  Most of us have taken the hardship and flipped it into a comfortable adulthood.  Yes we have our scars, and it takes many years (34 and still working on it) to make peace with parts of it, but the empathy and understanding sticks with us in a way that is hard to grasp without experience.  We appreciate what was done to try to make things work, even if we can't always say or show it.  Even if we spout off how we would have done it better (20yo me, I'm looking at you).  The paradigm shift from survival to abundance is hard - but much harder the other way around.

 

There's a visual I have in my head of my mom barely treading water, holding my brother and me above her head.  There's appreciation in that, but also guilt.  It's normal.  We get through it, every single day.

 

 

I have that same visual of my mom!  I don't know how she did it honestly.  Somehow we never even had utilities shut off.  And we always had food....but everything else was very iffy all of the time.

[sassenach]

I just wanted to quote this and reiterate it for anyone living through this right now. You are not ruining your kids lives by struggling, not at all. Most of us have taken the hardship and flipped it into a comfortable adulthood. Yes we have our scars, and it takes many years (34 and still working on it) to make peace with parts of it, but the empathy and understanding sticks with us in a way that is hard to grasp without experience. We appreciate what was done to try to make things work, even if we can't always say or show it. Even if we spout off how we would have done it better (20yo me, I'm looking at you). The paradigm shift from survival to abundance is hard - but much harder the other way around.

 

There's a visual I have in my head of my mom barely treading water, holding my brother and me above her head. There's appreciation in that, but also guilt. It's normal. We get through it, every single day.

I’m so glad you wrote this. I’d hate to heap condemnation on anyone currently in this position.

 

I had a very happy childhood and have a great relationship with my mom (and a ok/good one with my dad).

[Lawana]

Two of my remnants are the inability to spend on entertainment and decorating. I waste a bunch of money on expensive and convenient food. Used to take the kids out to eat a lot. But go to a movie?!? Buy a ticket for a show? Buy something that its only value is it's nice to look at? Forget it.

 

Also, my kids always had nice things to wear while I wore a few very cheap things.

[homemommy83]

Ooh, just thought of a big one for me. Reliable cars. We had a van growing up that would break down so often, we had a system for dealing with it. The thing's transmission was always on the fritz and it would overheat if you ever had to sit idle (in LA- land of the idling car). It was a totally normal thing to have to pull over to add transmission fluid, coolant, pump up a flattening tire for the 3rd time on a long drive... 

I am thankful for my van, as it gets us to church and an outing if we desire, but this is our reality right now.  It doesn't have heat, so on the way to church we cover our children with covers- it is only a few blocks.  It is always needing transmission fluid, and will overheat if we idle anywhere.  When we are backing up it sometimes just shuts off- for no good reason.  But we paid cash for this van, and it is all we can afford any time soon, unless God makes a way (he can give us extra work- or raises, it just hasn't happened yet).  I am thankful that my kids get to go to church. 

 

We are saving, but our plumbing issues has taken every dime we have.

[DawnM]

DH grew up lower middle class while I grew up upper middle class. What drives me nuts about him is that he is "penny wise but pound foolish". He wants to buy the absolute cheapest thing even if it is junk that will quickly need to be replaced rather than spending more up front for a quality item that will actually save money in the long run because it will last.

 

He also is terrified of ALL debt, not just high interest debt on depreciating items. He has a MBA in finance so intellectually he knows that leverage can be a smart decision. But there's this total disconnect between his brain and his emotions when it comes to debt.

 

He also gets in a bad mood when there is a large expense to be paid like the annual property taxes or the semi-annual auto & property insurance bills. He was the one who chose to set it up this way rather than doing monthly payments. He just doesn't like to see that big hit to our savings even if he knows it's coming.

 

 

My husband is the opposite.  He grew up getting the cheapest of everything and never enjoying it.  Want to play tennis?  Here is your K-mart low end racket.  Want to ice skate?  Here are the cheapest ones we can find.  They never worked well and were a complete waste.

 

When he went out on his own he vowed to buy only the best he could afford and make it last.

 

He bought $250 roller blades in 1990 and used them daily for example.  

[Lady Florida.]

Ooh, just thought of a big one for me. Reliable cars. We had a van growing up that would break down so often, we had a system for dealing with it. The thing's transmission was always on the fritz and it would overheat if you ever had to sit idle (in LA- land of the idling car). It was a totally normal thing to have to pull over to add transmission fluid, coolant, pump up a flattening tire for the 3rd time on a long drive... 

 

Back in the day when you could still work on a car in your own driveway without needing expensive, computerized equipment, my mother was always on the lookout for a teen or young adult willing to keep our car running for a pittance. 

 

A reliable car was something it took me a while to get as an adult. I was in my early 30s (still single) when I finally bought my first new car from a car lot. Until then I always had a beater that I needed to keep running until I could afford to buy the next beater.

[TravelingChris]

I came from a one parent working family and while my father made a middle income, we were living in a high cost area and my parents wanted us to eat nutrious foods (like we did get fresh fruits but mostly canned vegetables and back then fresh fruits were so much more limited than now), so my mom used hand-me down, thrift shop clothes and clothes she made me. Some kids did make fun of me but since I thought they were just stupid, apparently that bullying didn't affect me much. What did affect me greatly was my dad dying when I was 13.  Since he had been a government worker, most of our income was supposed to come from his survivor's pension.  My mom had just started her first job but it wasn't all that much money.  Well, there was a mess-up and we didn't get money for about four months.  I also had to do my mother's taxes too because she was too depressed to do them and my brother was too busy with college and work.  (I continued doing taxes by hand for most of my life, then switched to software and finally threw up my hands once my husband retired and said the taxes were too complex for the software even and we needed an accountant to help).  Then we were okay though having to live quite frugally and I went to college.  I was getting small social security checks too because of survivor benefit.  Towards the end of my college career, social security made an error and stopped my checks prematurely.  Small panic started.  Got them to send me another.  It doesn't come it seems.  Months go by and no check. Panic increasing (even though it was not my main source of income, it was making things tougher but I am sure my panic was from the initial trauma at age 13).  Contact social security again amd they say check has been cashed.  Turns out it was stolen (most likely at the post office itself before being delivered) and cashed by a person who misspelled my name, for sure didn't know how to pronounce it, in a bad neighborhood.  I sent a letter to SS office again along with police report number because I did contact the police about it then and finally got my check for back pay about 10 months late.  Fast forward to my dh's military career. Four years in, they were having a separation deal and separating officers with no extra pay or any incentive- just you are out. Panic again. (By panic, I mean not only do I start having trouble sleeping, but giant decrease in spending usually more than is necessary).  He was kept in and I have still had a few in the last few years even after he retired and got a government contract job. 

I am slowly getting more relaxed and less panicked about money.  But I am not sure it will ever go away.  My dh really had to calm me down about supporting our kids in adulthood because I was so panicked about us getting impoverished.  My dh actually grew up with less money than I did but he had it steady and never had it disappear like I did and I think that makes a bigger difference.  I also grew up hearing how my mom went from a landed gentry family with governesses and lots of money to being in a Soviet gulag so I don't think I ever really thought things were permanent.  I can't say that the hardships really made me or my husband a better person since it didn't help dh's siblings nor mine but the combination of our personalities and our outlooks and the hardships did influence us for the better,. More compassionate, more careful, more grateful for our blessings.

[Lady Florida.]

What did affect me greatly was my dad dying when I was 13.  Since he had been a government worker, most of our income was supposed to come from his survivor's pension.  My mom had just started her first job but it wasn't all that much money.  Then we were okay though having to live quite frugally and I went to college.  I was getting small social security checks too because of survivor benefit. Panic increasing (even though it was not my main source of income, it was making things tougher but I am sure my panic was from the initial trauma at age 13).

 

A lot of your story sounds similar to mine. I was 14 when my dad died though my parents had been separated for several years and my mother started working once they separated. Her waitress job paid very little but was getting alimony and child support, both of which were instantly gone. Panic. However, though their divorce became final 2 months before he died, for whatever reason Social Security considered her a widow. I think it had to do with how long they had been married. She got a small check plus my brother and I also got survivor's benefits. We also got VA checks until 18 or 21 - I don't remember. One of them, either SS or VA went to 24 if you were in college. I was so mine continued. My brother's stopped. My dad did have a life insurance policy without which my college education would have been difficult at the least. Again my brother made a less responsible choice with his half. 

 

My mother remarried a few years later and things were better. Then one day while she was grocery shopping he left. She came home and all his things were gone. He left a note saying he just decided he didn't want to be married anymore. Since she was working and we weren't his kids, there was no alimony or child support. Panic. 

 

Fast forward to my dh's military career. Four years in, they were having a separation deal and separating officers with no extra pay or any incentive- just you are out. Panic again.

 

 That must have brought back some traumatic memories. I would have panicked too.

 

I can't say that the hardships really made me or my husband a better person since it didn't help dh's siblings nor mine but the combination of our personalities and our outlooks and the hardships did influence us for the better,. More compassionate, more careful, more grateful for our blessings.

Same here. My brother made some less than stellar choices even though we had the same childhood. I think personality and the age you are when you experience the hardships makes a difference in how it shapes you. Yes, yes, yes to that last sentence. I cannot vilify the poor for being poor. It's never just as simple as pulling up your bootstraps. Breaking the poverty cycle is complicated and difficult and one can rarely do it without some kind of help or intervention.

Edited January 16, 2018 by Lady Florida.

[SparklyUnicorn]

DH grew up lower middle class while I grew up upper middle class. What drives me nuts about him is that he is "penny wise but pound foolish". He wants to buy the absolute cheapest thing even if it is junk that will quickly need to be replaced rather than spending more up front for a quality item that will actually save money in the long run because it will last.

 

 

Took me forever to not always do this.  I also did this with food.  What is hard to realize is in the end you don't really spend less money.  But if you need something and don't have the money, you go with the cheapest thing because that's the only option.

 

Although I don't necessarily know what makes a quality item and am often skeptical about expensive things assuming they aren't better simply for being more expensive.  So there is that as well.

[Ausmumof3]

I always find these threads a bit confusing. I think it's cultural differences.

 

Rain boots are pretty much an essential here but snow boots would be a luxury you'd only buy if you did a snow trip.

 

As a kid we always had power and water but also hand me down clothes. I think in part because my family had been much tighter in the past.

 

Rural poverty is so different to city poverty too. Sometimes there's plenty of assets but no actual income for the year. There are options for food like hunting and growing your own and gathering that aren't in the city. But shopping thrift stores is less of a possibility as there's just not enough people to keep them well stocked. You wear your clothes till they are trashed because new clothes are going to get trashed anyway thanks to the kind of work you do. There's no public libraries or public transport.

[katilac]

We had two weird insults in my neighborhood growing up. 

 

If you had on cheap shoes or something, a frenemy might ask if you paid "a nickel ninety five" for them. Because that's a dollar? I have no idea. 

 

But the very worst insult was to say that somebody looked like "a Kmart welfare child." Which was amusing, because almost everyone shopped at Kmart. On layaway, lol. 

[Arcadia]

Although I don't necessarily know what makes a quality item and am often skeptical about expensive things assuming they aren't better simply for being more expensive.  So there is that as well.

I do tell my husband that often the customer is just paying more for the brand name. However I had to have my clothes (including school uniforms) tailor made, shoes custom made, watches customized for my small wrist since I was a kid so I have gotten used to being critical on quality. My husband’s current job has included quality control as part of his job for the past few years so now he has gotten more critical when inspecting goods instead of me telling him all the defects that I spotted.

 

I always find these threads a bit confusing. I think it's cultural differences.

Rain boots are pretty much an essential here but snow boots would be a luxury you'd only buy if you did a snow trip.

...

Rural poverty is so different to city poverty too.

My primary school classmates who could not afford rain boots used plastic bags to cover their school shoes as they walk through flood waters to get to school. They use old newspapers or used cardboard boxes as an umbrella. Wellington boots are usually bought and worn by butchers as rain boots were still considered a luxury compared to wearing slippers (flip flops) to school or work and then changing to shoes there.

 

I agree city poverty and rural poverty are different. An aunt had a big rural home and any homeless relatives could just sleep at her big shed at night and use her big living room and kitchen facilities in the day. She could also grow enough food to feed her family just enough to not be hungry. It was however easier for my city relatives to find temporary odd job labourer kind of jobs because city folks were more willing to pay for services instead of DIY. When my cousin needed extra income fast, she could find lots of low paying but decent babysitting jobs because the number of people (and daycares) who needed a last minute babysitter in a densely populated area is just higher.

[Joyofsixreboot]

I have finally concluded I will just never be a person to whom it occurs that I could buy something. The habit of jury rigging or doing without is just my default.

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

[teachermom2834]

We never went hungry but my parents lived robbing Peter to pay Paul (not literally robbing!), not paying a bill until it was way past due, etc. One day it occurred to me that my kids have never encountered a bill collector. When the power goes out they assume it is a power issue and not that the bill wasn't paid. It is a hard way to grow up.

 

My dd has braces. We can afford the in house interest free financing for her partial set of braces. We didn't even need to agonize over it. She needed braces. She got braces. No lost sleep or unpaid bills.

 

We don't have much extra but I really felt like we had made it to be able to put braces on our dd. I found myself about to tell her not to brag about her braces to the other kids. LOL. She would have thought I was insane but it was a really big deal.

[SparklyUnicorn]

My parents both had a mental illness.  My dad actually had a somewhat decent paying high skilled job in a factory (back at a time when one could develop in demand skills without spending thousands on an education), but they had to spend most of their money on medications and medical care.  They paid more for health insurance than my husband and I do now because my dad's employer didn't pay much of it.  My mother could not work due to the severity of her illness.  My father couldn't always work either.  Sometimes they were both hospitalized for months and my sibling and I were shuffled around among family members who were quick to let us know how much they did NOT want to be helping (my lazy ass parents who must have been faking their illnesses).  The reasons for poverty are very diverse.  It's not always about making bad choices.  Did my parents make bad choices being born with a mental illness?  I suppose they made a bad choice having kids (except people don't work that way as you know and even poor mentally ill people do stuff like fall in love and want children). 

 

Has this all made me thrifty and good with money?  Nope.  Not at all.  And I have never shopped in a thrift store.  Neither did my parents.  We mostly just went without many necessities.  (My parents did not grow up poor and never really had the mindset of poverty.)

[Arcadia]

We don't have much extra but I really felt like we had made it to be able to put braces on our dd. I found myself about to tell her not to brag about her braces to the other kids. LOL. She would have thought I was insane but it was a really big deal.

When my kids were in public school, they sent out a notice for free dental care for public school kids who could not afford going to the dentist and was limited to a certain number of kids due to availability of volunteers.

 

From a news article https://www.mercurynews.com/2013/05/18/free-san-jose-dental-clinic-draws-more-than-2000-many-spend-night-in-line-waiting-for-fillings-extractions-root-canals/

“For the first time in San Jose and just the third time in the state, the California Dental Association operated a free dental clinic to anyone willing to wait, marshaling more than 1,700 volunteers — including 800 dentists, hygienists and lab assistants.

 

More than 2,000 people, many traveling by BART and bus from the East Bay and beyond, waited for hours on end. Some arrived as early as Thursday evening.

...

In 2009, during the height of the state budget crisis, the Legislature cut almost all funding to adult Denti-Cal, which is MediCal’s dental program, leaving 3 million low-income adults uninsured. Funding for the California Children’s Dental Disease Prevention Program, which provides preventive care in school, was cut at the same time.â€

[SparklyUnicorn]

I'm disgusted that dental stuff is given such low priority compared with other medical things (and that it is not covered by health insurance).  Dental insurance is a joke. 

 

 

[Granny_Weatherwax]

<snip>

 

This is a bigger ticket item, but dental/orthodontic care is the place that I totally relish in being able to provide.

I totally understand. I never miss a dental appt. and make sure my children get regular cleanings and dental work.

[scoutingmom]

 

 

DH and I both grew up poor, but we have vastly different experiences and approaches to life. I grew up with a Depression-era mantra of 'use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without'. DH with the idea of 'buy it now before you don't have the money later'. They've both shaped us into different people. But I also think a bigger difference has to do with our genders. I grew up with the idea of putting myself last, as did a lot of other women. We're apologetic. We don't take first, we take left overs. It's something that is hard to overcome, even when it is necessary.

This! My dh is all about 'buy it now'. I'm mostly a 'do without'. Or at least agonize over it. I'm a pay the important bills first and figure out the rest. Dh is buy the food and needed clothes first... the utility companies will get their money... (um, yeah... when I force the issue). I get a reaction if I see a utility company van on our street.... is it coming to our house? Are we up to date? Did we forget an arrangement?