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Anybody posted about the 13 siblings found chained in California home?


VaKim
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And I have to lol a bit at the idea because a family looks clean and educated, responsible and has their stuff together...that those families are ok to homeschool...

Lol all you want, if you can't imagine that a family that consistently manages basic hygiene and literacy, and whose children are fed, and who have done the work of finding and preparing curriculum and lessons, and who have references from respected members of the community, *might* inspire more confidence than a family who is entirely the opposite.

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Homemommy83 that lines up with my non-religious, public school experience completely.

 

I am amazed when I look back with all the supposedly caring and responsible adults I came into contact each day, no one really ever did jack sh!t to intervene when I was going home every day to drugs, no food etc.

I am so sorry that you went through this as well.  I am thankful that my children are blessed with parents that love them unconditionally.  I also have siblings from my fathers side that are just fabulous people, I have been able to have some loving relationships with them.  I had loving teachers in the system (whom I don't think understood the difference between poverty and abuse) and great Sunday School/ Youth leaders throughout my life who helped how they could.  I hope that someone showed you some kindness along the way:(

 

I still distrust people "in positions of power", but trust others very easily.  

 

Brenda

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Homemommy, thank you for sharing your story.

 

I told a high school teacher what was happening at home ONCE, the only time I ever told a teacher. She did not tell my parents, she hugged me and told me she cared, and she gave me a passing grade even though I was unable to complete the projects because of home. But nobody intervened, and it was definitely a situation where somebody should have.

 

But there are two more benefits to school for abuse and neglected children:

 

1. Respite, a meal, awareness of and access to basic education.

2. Probably figuring out that what you endure at home is not normal.

 

In my own experience, I cannot ever minimize those two benefits. They are the reason my children have had a normal life.

I agree whole-heartedly with your post.

 

Brenda

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FWIW, and this only applies to my school district and the one I grew up in since those are the only two I know about...

 

I've been working for 19 years if I include this school year.  What happens now when abuse is suspected and what happened when I started teaching is vastly different.  What happened in my days (70s and early 80s) of going to school is even vastly different from that.

 

To those who think laws mean nothing and nothing ever changes, I disagree.  When people get upset at what they see and work to create intelligent change, things might not be perfect, but they get better for many.  I wish no one fell through the cracks, but solving these issues is not easy no matter when and where they happen.  I'm not in the group who feels this means "don't even try."

 

I also was reading (on a thread on college confidential about this family - in the Parent Cafe if anyone wants to look it up) that the mom in this family was on social media talking about her kids and putting pics on, etc.  To those who feel all the stories we're hearing even on this board are 100% factual, it might be helpful to realize we're only getting one side of the story.  I will participate and offer advice, hugs, and whatever, but I withhold actual judgment about what's factual since I don't know all the information - very akin to being on a jury for real vs only when one hears one side from a vested party.  I'll give the benefit of the doubt on this board, but if on a jury, I'd want to know both sides before making an assessment.

 

It still makes me wonder if that mom was on this board too - back in a thread many of us thought was a troll posting.  Older boardies might remember the thread...

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Lol all you want, if you can't imagine that a family that consistently manages basic hygiene and literacy, and whose children are fed, and who have done the work of finding and preparing curriculum and lessons, and who have references from respected members of the community, *might* inspire more confidence than a family who is entirely the opposite.

I'm sure they do. I'm sure it's no indication that abuse isn't happening. And all this is starting to sound pretty scarily elitist.

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Tibbie those are some good points.

 

And thank you homemommy, yes there were adults along the way that expressed care and concern even if they didn't much get involved. And yes I had friends houses to go to where I got a glimpse of what was more normal.

 

Homeschooling would never have happened in my case because getting rid of me each day (at public school) was counted as a positive. And I have no idea how homeschool would have compounded the situation. Also mine was more neglect at that time than abuse.

 

But I'm just saying with others children can be woefully mistreated in "public" settings too.

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Homemommy, thank you for sharing your story.

 

I told a high school teacher what was happening at home ONCE, the only time I ever told a teacher. She did not tell my parents, she hugged me and told me she cared, and she gave me a passing grade even though I was unable to complete the projects because of home. But nobody intervened, and it was definitely a situation where somebody should have.

 

But there are two more benefits to school for abuse and neglected children:

 

1. Respite, a meal, awareness of and access to basic education.

2. Probably figuring out that what you endure at home is not normal.

 

In my own experience, I cannot ever minimize those two benefits. They are the reason my children have had a normal life.

 

Or they are made more acutely aware that what happens at home is not normal and have to enduring more bullying, shame, and ostracizing at school because of it. Their peers bully them mercilessly for not wearing the right clothes or not getting a shower that week. Their teachers shame them in front of the class because they didn't do their homework. They can't stay awake and get sent to the office for sleeping in class. They get passed on to the next grade without a basic education because the teacher doesn't want to deal with the problem kid anymore. They act out continually until they are suspended or expelled, or just graduated to shore up the school's stats.

 

I don't get that the dream scenario for the poor, dirty kids with negligent parents is public school.

 

I had good parents who cared about me doing well in school and middle school was still a special kind of hell. It was not easier for kids who struggled at home more than I did, from my observations.

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EmseB I have to say you have quite the good point too and what you described lines up with my experience as well. There was more than one side to it for sure.

 

I remember wearing a large t shirt for an adult because it's all I could find going to school one day in 4th grade and being subject to kids outside the classroom that morning saying only tramps wear shirts that big. One of a million examples I could give.

 

So yeah. There's definitely that.

 

Insult added to injury is a reality for public school kids who come from troubled homes.

Edited by pinkmint
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Or they are made more acutely aware that what happens at home is not normal and have to enduring more bullying, shame, and ostracizing at school because of it. Their peers bully them mercilessly for not wearing the right clothes or not getting a shower that week. Their teachers shame them in front of the class because they didn't do their homework. They can't stay awake and get sent to the office for sleeping in class. They get passed on to the next grade without a basic education because the teacher doesn't want to deal with the problem kid anymore. They act out continually until they are suspended or expelled, or just graduated to shore up the school's stats.

 

FWIW, I do not see this happening at all at the public high school where I work (can't speak for others).  Kids are a heck of a lot more tolerant about clothing choices and similar than many adults seem to be.  Kids who I know have issues at home have quite a few friends at school and teachers almost always make as many allowances as possible due to their home situation.  Many teachers spend their own money trying to assist with clothes and food.  They spend their own time trying to assist with advice or extra tutoring.  We discuss ways to try to help.  We try to network to reach further out.

 

It may be because we're in a rural average district and not some fancy place or a place with a higher population making students numbers and not names, but your thoughts about what happen just don't hit reality at all here.

 

There are students with fewer friends or who don't do homework or who don't stay awake in class, etc.  We don't have access to the "perfect" teens.  It's just not reliably those from horrid homes.

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For those of you in favor of requiring a yearly home inspection in order to homeschool, how would that work?

 

Would the visit have to be scheduled in advance, or could the authorities arrive at your door-step unannounced?

 

Who would conduct the inspection?

 

Under what circumstances would a family fail the home inspection?

 

What happens if the family fails? Do they have to stop homeschooling? Is there an appeal process?

Ours already requires a twice yearly home visit from a teacher-facilitator (who is employed by the school board you selected). It's scheduled in advance. It's not an inspection, but a mandated reporter is seeing the visitor-type spaces of your home.

 

You would "fail" if your facilitator had many concerns and got the sense that you weren't improving or responding. In that case, that particular school board would decline to have you back under their umbrella next year. (Probably they would attempt a facilitator switch before doing that.) You could seek another board, but they wouldn't be required to take you either, once they received your records. Some would, some wouldn't. Eventually (after applying to dozens of boards) you might have to make a choice other than homeschooling -- if no board would have you.

 

You would also be a much more serious issue if the mandated reporter felt obligated to report suspicion of abuse or neglect. Then the normal process of child protection investigation and/or intervention would begin.

 

It seems ok as far as "seen but not inspected" as a goal.

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Adding to my pp:

 

It's actually more common for kids from less than stellar parents to BE the bullies dissing others at the high school level (don't know about elementary).  I (and others) suspect it's due to mimicking what they grow up with or just not getting direction on how to play nicely with others.  We have to teach these kids more "life lessons" than those who are blessed with decent parents.

 

And again, this is different than how it was when I went to school.  I recall kids putting others down in my elementary school and higher, so I certainly don't doubt that happened (or still happens in places), but schools now - schools like the ones I work at - are actively working at teaching those life lessons and I can certainly tell a difference even in the past 19 years.

 

I know youngest son worked with disadvantaged kids from inner cities this past summer.  He got an education (from them) about how it was awful to be the "good" kid in school in their situation.  I don't doubt it.  Even in cities near us there are sometimes stories (one fairly recent) about how good kids ended up shot.

 

If any of us wonder about homeschooling... there are definitely times when it is worth it!  (I still think it's the best for kids - as long as parents "do it right" with "right" having several different paths - all including schooling.)

 

With the family the thread is about.  It appears they were schooling if the kids could read/write and even the oldest attending a college class.  I think they had several gaps in their education, but overall, it's more abuse than not homeschooling from what I've seen.

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What is "government?" It is us.

 

What about a third grade teacher who knows the child is reliant on the school feeding programs, breakfast and lunch, she knew his older siblings, she's known his mom for six years...this involved, caring teacher who has an actual relationship with the family and knows of mom's good intentions but also knows of cognitive problems and kids' special needs...

 

This teacher IS the government. She has to watch this family who obviously needs the support and safety net of school, convert to religious fundamentalism or get offended by the bus driver, and begin homeschooling. She can't say or do anything because the abuse or neglect hasn't happened or been proven yet, and there are no restrictions on hsing here...but she doesn't know how the child, who literally has lost teeth due to poor diet and lack of dentist, is going to gain either literacy or breakfast for the rest of the year.

I hope you don't think a lack of affordable dental care is equivalent to poor parenting.  I understand the other things that you listed, but dental care isn't available to everyone.  We both work fulltime hours, but cannot afford to fix my front tooth that got knocked out by my "life more abundantly" son who jumped and knocked out my front tooth when I went to kiss his forehead.  If I didn't buy my children clothing, food, and educational programs then I could afford to have them done, but my children come first.  It will be at least a year before I can afford to fix my two broken teeth.  They were extremely crooked, due to parents not having them fixed during childhood- they fused together and decayed where they were fused.  So I have one cracked tooth and one missing except at the very tip.

 

I take meticulous care of my teeth, but cannot afford to spend that kind of money right now.  I pray sometimes that I could just get one more bank to clean, but instead I clean the same banks for half the money I did a couple years ago, because our bosses renegotiated the terms of the banks lowering the hours we get paid, but not lowering the amount of work.  This is my reality right now.  I am thankful that I didn't lose both of my front teeth as it would be hard to readaloud to my children (it took me a month  to do well with one- it is kind of hard to talk without teeth).  

 

Brenda

 

ETA; sorry, I just reread the post and realized you meant that the child has lost teeth, not the mother-lol.  That is concerning to me.

Edited by homemommy83
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Or they are made more acutely aware that what happens at home is not normal and have to enduring more bullying, shame, and ostracizing at school because of it. Their peers bully them mercilessly for not wearing the right clothes or not getting a shower that week. Their teachers shame them in front of the class because they didn't do their homework. They can't stay awake and get sent to the office for sleeping in class. They get passed on to the next grade without a basic education because the teacher doesn't want to deal with the problem kid anymore. They act out continually until they are suspended or expelled, or just graduated to shore up the school's stats.

 

I don't get that the dream scenario for the poor, dirty kids with negligent parents is public school.

 

I had good parents who cared about me doing well in school and middle school was still a special kind of hell. It was not easier for kids who struggled at home more than I did, from my observations.

It was hard for me growing up in public school, and I am sure that it is one of the thousand reasons that I homeschool; but there is a truth in that I would have starved to death if it wasn't for the public school and church leaders.  This is not exaggeration, this is what she means by her post- no food, no education at all would have happened without the schools/ churches.

 

Brenda

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I hope you don't think a lack of affordable dental care is equivalent to poor parenting.  I understand the other things that you listed, but dental care isn't available to everyone.  We both work fulltime hours, but cannot afford to fix my front tooth that got knocked out by my "life more abundantly" son who jumped and knocked out my front tooth when I went to kiss his forehead.  If I didn't buy my children clothing, food, and educational programs then I could afford to have them done, but my children come first.  It will be at least a year before I can afford to fix my two broken teeth.  They were extremely crooked, due to parents not having them fixed during childhood- they fused together and decayed where they were fused.  So I have one cracked tooth and one missing except at the very tip.

 

I take meticulous care of my teeth, but cannot afford to spend that kind of money right now.  I pray sometimes that I could just get one more bank to clean, but instead I clean the same banks for half the money I did a couple years ago, because our bosses renegotiated the terms of the banks lowering the hours we get paid, but not lowering the amount of work.  This is my reality right now.  I am thankful that I didn't lose both of my front teeth as it would be hard to readaloud to my children (it took me a month  to do well with one- it is kind of hard to talk without teeth).  

 

Brenda

 

ETA; sorry, I just reread the post and realized you meant that the child has lost teeth, not the mother-lol.  That is concerning to me.

 

Where we are it's made abundantly clear that poverty is NOT poor parenting.  Poor parenting is not utilizing what's out there to make sure kids are fed, cleaned, and have other basics like heat in the house - or even a place to live, etc.  In our community the first step is being sure parents know what's available for them to help and offering help to get them signed up.

 

FWIW, there are also places to assist with parents who have medical and dental needs if those are unaffordable.  Have you checked in your area to see if you might qualify for one of those.  I WANT my tax dollars to go toward helping folks in your situation.  I think anyone who works should be making a livable wage.  Since that doesn't happen in the real world, I want opportunities out there to help make up for it.  If you qualify for one near you, please use it with no regrets at all nor any feeling about being a drain on our system.  You aren't a drain.  You are working (as are SAHMs in most situations).  It's the vast inequality in pay that makes the difference.

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The child (this is a real story, I know the family) had lost teeth. The family had tapped into various avenues of help - most of those are accessed thru school here. They walked away from meals, speech therapy, all sorts of aid. It's a low income area and we do not judge for poverty around here. My own children were below the poverty line for years and had everything they needed.

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I'm moving on from this thread, partly because of triggers and partly because of Esme B's posts. I can't be shooting down that dubious logic all day.

 

I'm responding to your arguments. It's not dubious logic, it's based on people I know and things I myself have observed.  I'm fine if you don't want to engage my points, but insulting me on your way out is a bit over the top on a board like this where the whole point is exchange and discussion.

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Where we are it's made abundantly clear that poverty is NOT poor parenting.  Poor parenting is not utilizing what's out there to make sure kids are fed, cleaned, and have other basics like heat in the house - or even a place to live, etc.  In our community the first step is being sure parents know what's available for them to help and offering help to get them signed up.

 

FWIW, there are also places to assist with parents who have medical and dental needs if those are unaffordable.  Have you checked in your area to see if you might qualify for one of those.  I WANT my tax dollars to go toward helping folks in your situation.  I think anyone who works should be making a livable wage.  Since that doesn't happen in the real world, I want opportunities out there to help make up for it.  If you qualify for one near you, please use it with no regrets at all nor any feeling about being a drain on our system.  You aren't a drain.  You are working (as are SAHMs in most situations).  It's the vast inequality in pay that makes the difference.

Our area doesn't have anything for this type of injury, but it would be a beautiful miracle to me.  It still gets on my nerves when I am reading aloud to my children, but in time I can get a partial or something.

 

 

Brenda

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Our area doesn't have anything for this type of injury, but it would be a beautiful miracle to me.  It still gets on my nerves when I am reading aloud to my children, but in time I can get a partial or something.

 

 

Brenda

 

:grouphug:  I hope something comes near you sometime soon.  I wish there were places everywhere to assist with things like this.

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The child (this is a real story, I know the family) had lost teeth. The family had tapped into various avenues of help - most of those are accessed thru school here. They walked away from meals, speech therapy, all sorts of aid. It's a low income area and we do not judge for poverty around here. My own children were below the poverty line for years and had everything they needed.

That is so sad.  We are presently using the ps for our sons speech therapy- although they only want to give him one 20 minute session, so we actually pay for it out of pocket.  

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Yes, we get that there are people who may make the wrong call and report a family that shouldn't be. But again, that is true of regular doctor's visits, and yet I've never seen a thread full of everyone saying "never take your kid to the doctor because I know this one family that got falsely accused of XYX by the doctor's office!"

 

We accept that some things will be flawed, but are better than not having them. Some of us are saying annual school evaluations, or at minimum an annual health exam, fall into that category. 

 

Heck, my kids could die in a car crash on the way to Target today. But I'm still going to go to Target. Having an annual portfolio evaluation or visit (doesn't HAVE to be at the home) is like that to me, it serves a purpose and the majority of the time is going to do more good than harm. 

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EmseB I have to say you have quite the good point too and what you described lines up with my experience as well. There was more than one side to it for sure.

 

I remember wearing a large t shirt for an adult because it's all I could find going to school one day in 4th grade and being subject to kids outside the classroom that morning saying only tramps wear shirts that big. One of a million examples I could give.

 

So yeah. There's definitely that.

 

Insult added to injury is a reality for public school kids who come from troubled homes.

 

I realize that these adults looked very young, so not arguing something wrong....

 

But I have looked about 10 years younger than I am for ages. Nothing wrong at all.... but when I was 26 most people thought I was 15 or 16. I was asked if I had permission to use my Mom's (mine) credit card. I owned my own house, but people thought I was a teen. I remember being downtown returning to my office after lunch and overhearing some old guy muttering (about me) about teenagers skipping school. So I think a person can be i their 20's and look like a minor and nothing is 'wrong'.

 

I don't think this was the case here...

 

I also looked young for a long time.  people would think my oldest kids were my own younger siblings.   I still have people who would think I was much younger than I am.   that might change now that I've allowed my hair to go gray.

 

good skin, and staying out of the sun.

 

 

  We were at the grocery store once and there was a meat sale so it was crazy busy. Packed with people. The friend asked the clerk, Ă¢â‚¬Å“HowĂ¢â‚¬â„¢re you handling up? Busy, huh?Ă¢â‚¬ (Because he was extroverted and the sort to chat with clerks all the time). She said, Ă¢â‚¬Å“Oh goodness. I was a nurse in the ER. This is nothing.Ă¢â‚¬

 

As we walked out, he turned serious and cynical and said to me, Ă¢â‚¬Å“I wonder what she did to have to leave the ER. No one leaves being an ER nurse to be a cashier in a grocery store.Ă¢â‚¬

 

He always was Ă¢â‚¬Å“seeingĂ¢â‚¬ the bad things people did. Only they didnĂ¢â‚¬â„¢t do them.

 

I cut off the friendship by not inviting him to anything anymore. I still see this person in social situations, but I stay away.

 

I have no idea how he did his job.  . Basically, the job made him so jaded that he sees evil or negativity in everything. I wouldnĂ¢â‚¬â„¢t want someone so jaded coming to my house for a homeschool in-home check-up by the government.

 

 

He just could never see anything good anymore. 

 

about the nurse.   I was at home depot, and the clerk was wearing scrubs.  I asked her about it (thinking she wanted more hours.).  she worked ICU, and  "needed to be somewhere people don't die."

 

and yeah - I watched a special on residents at John's Hopkins.   best and brightest.   there was one - who went to work in a rural hospital ER.  He was sick of the gang violence he saw on a nightly basis in the inner city.   He wanted to be reminded - there *are* good teens out there, becasue at JH - he wasn't seeing them.

 

 

That's what I thought "About the time the baby was born"

 

the scariest thing - is the charge for lewd behavior against a child, was a girl under 14.  

and they have said the baby was well fed.   I'm not sure the kids were feeding the baby - indications for leo comments is they were.

 

That's not quite what Samaritan says...they figure that small expensws like annual checkups can be saved for and paid for out of pocket. There's nothing said about "you're saving so much money vs regular insurance that you can afford those well-checks". And fyi, when I've looked at regular insurance, the cheapest, super high deductible policies which would be well over $1000/mo for our family, only cover annual well-checks through age 5, so we'd still be paying OOP for those for school age kids.

 

yeah.  'cause the average person *saves* for those "small expenses" . . . . no, they find something else to spend the money on.

 

For what it's worth, as a child (age 8 and beyond when my parents split and the much less responsible party got main custody) I lived with a drug using adult who didn't bother to buy groceries and things like that.

 

I was in public school the whole time. I went to school almost every day and the teachers just thought I was willfully doing poorly when I was just hungry.

 

There's the idea that people care and want to get involved and that's so often not the case.

 

Not that we shouldn't do anything but one of the points I agree with in this thread is that homeschooling doesn't necessarily have a whole lot to do with this case.

 

no - the school's MANDATED REPORTERS don't' do anything.  

  My brother was dealing HARD drugs out of our house,  he had his own grow operation. I was constantly telling people because I wanted help. tbh: people dont' care.  those that did - were by far the exception.

  I got a couple different responses - silence, or maybe MAYBE a sympathetic comment and changing the subject.   most people, turned their backs on me because they didn't want to associate with some  whose brother was dealing drugs - I was a "bad influence".  I had parents of playmates ban me from their house.

not once, was it reported to law enforcement or anyone who would have done anything. I thought about calling the cops myself - but I was afraid of my grandmother and what she'd do to me if I did and I wasn't somewhere safe from her.

 

so, to those who think mandated reporters will do something - are overly optimistic with real world experience.

 

eta: - that's if they even believed me.  Most people thought I was "exaggerating".  I was in the jr high counselor's office at least once a week with what was going on.  nothing happened.

Edited by gardenmom5
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It was hard for me growing up in public school, and I am sure that it is one of the thousand reasons that I homeschool; but there is a truth in that I would have starved to death if it wasn't for the public school and church leaders.  This is not exaggeration, this is what she means by her post- no food, no education at all would have happened without the schools/ churches.

 

Brenda

 

And I'm absolutely sure that it is a good option for some families.

 

My larger point was that it's not a panacea, and that saying that kids from unstable/abusive families need to be in public school as a respite from abuse is not necessarily true.

 

I am also responding to the other overall tone in the thread that says that if you don't come into homeschooling with a certain set of qualities and characteristics that are typical of middle-class and wealthier families, then of course you need somebody to come in and check on your kids. And if you decide to homeschool then you are irresponsibly not availing yourself to a ton of resources that are only available through a one-size-fits-all education model.

 

ETA: I used the word poor when I mean something else. I changed the wording.

Edited by EmseB
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FWIW, I do not see this happening at all at the public high school where I work (can't speak for others). Kids are a heck of a lot more tolerant about clothing choices and similar than many adults seem to be. Kids who I know have issues at home have quite a few friends at school and teachers almost always make as many allowances as possible due to their home situation. Many teachers spend their own money trying to assist with clothes and food. They spend their own time trying to assist with advice or extra tutoring. We discuss ways to try to help. We try to network to reach further out.

 

It may be because we're in a rural average district and not some fancy place or a place with a higher population making students numbers and not names, but your thoughts about what happen just don't hit reality at all here.

 

There are students with fewer friends or who don't do homework or who don't stay awake in class, etc. We don't have access to the "perfect" teens. It's just not reliably those from horrid homes.

I'm sure there is a lot from the kids' experience that you are entirely oblivious to.

 

Most bullying does not happen where adults notice and most kids do not report.

 

They just suffer.

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Lol all you want, if you can't imagine that a family that consistently manages basic hygiene and literacy, and whose children are fed, and who have done the work of finding and preparing curriculum and lessons, and who have references from respected members of the community, *might* inspire more confidence than a family who is entirely the opposite.

Now we need community references?

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Now we need community references?

 

The reason people originally did that when they pulled their kids back in the '80s is because they were afraid of what would happen when/if they were reported for truancy while homeschooling their kids. The kids "belonged" to the school district and parents had to jump through tons of hoops to have any right to provide them an education at home.

 

I am honestly happier to live in a time where homeschooling is more recognized and more common, such that I don't have the same worries and fears of reprisal from CPS or the district that my MIL did when she pulled her kids in the late '80s and early '90s.

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The only two abusive families I have met or been around at all in 20 years of homeschooling were part of a charter school to get money and met with the teacher all the time and turned in work samples and followed all the rules. I cannot verify the details of one family because we were not that close but the other one I became involved with and tried to help teach because they really needed it until more stuff came out and CPS was involved.

 

Spendings gobs and gobs of money keeping an eye on regular homeschoolers will not help. It will take more precious funds desperatly needed by CPS and the foster system. The biggest thing we could do now is pay attention to our communities, get involved, and pressure legeslatures to fund these systems. Foster kids can't afford lobbyists.

 

Not far from where I live a family was reported (if I remember correctly) 6 times! CPS still didn't get involved until a year later. Their job is very demanding often working with fantastic habitual liars and master groomers. In my state they have way too many cases per person and can't get things done with the cases they are involved with much less adding a ton of other work. They could use a little support and a lot more money.

 

These big sweeping regulations cost lots to enforce because they are covering so many people. They will not be enforced well because attempting to control large populations is extraordinarily difficult and it is very easy for abusers to satisfy your big hoop or skirt around your little one. But they sure make do gooders feel good who don't actually want to be involved because actually being involved is really really difficult.

Edited by frogger
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I'm sure there is a lot from the kids' experience that you are entirely oblivious to.

 

Most bullying does not happen where adults notice and most kids do not report.

 

They just suffer.

 

I'm positive I don't know about every single high school kid in my district.  I'm also positive about those I know about because some kids do share - or some of their friends share with folks they think can help.

 

Humans are different and certainly not saints (at any age).  Bullied kids come from great (or average) parents pretty often too.  The idea that they only come from poor ($ or actions) parents is 100% wrong.

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I'm positive I don't know about every single high school kid in my district. I'm also positive about those I know about because some kids do share - or some of their friends share with folks they think can help.

 

Humans are different and certainly not saints (at any age). Bullied kids come from great (or average) parents pretty often too. The idea that they only come from poor ($ or actions) parents is 100% wrong.

No one said they only came from unstable environments, just that it is within the range of experience.

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I'm positive I don't know about every single high school kid in my district. I'm also positive about those I know about because some kids do share - or some of their friends share with folks they think can help.

 

Humans are different and certainly not saints (at any age). Bullied kids come from great (or average) parents pretty often too. The idea that they only come from poor ($ or actions) parents is 100% wrong.

I don't think I said anything about parents.

 

School trauma (not home trauma) speaking here--there is just no way adults can know more than a fraction of what is going on.

Edited by maize
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I don't think I said anything about parents.

 

School trauma (not home trauma) speaking here--there is just no way adults can know more than a fraction of what is going on.

 

As it is with anecdotes shared online - or even merely overheard from friends, etc.

 

I believed the report that my dad was ripped off with a fuel oil delivery (posted on my elder thread).  When I saw the actual evidence... 100% not true as reported even if he felt he was ripped off.

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And I'm absolutely sure that it is a good option for some families.

 

My larger point was that it's not a panacea, and that saying that kids from unstable/abusive families need to be in public school as a respite from abuse is not necessarily true.

 

I am also responding to the other overall tone in the thread that says that if you don't come into homeschooling with a certain set of qualities and characteristics that are typical of middle-class and wealthier families, then of course you need somebody to come in and check on your kids. And if you decide to homeschool then you are irresponsibly not availing yourself to a ton of resources that are only available through a one-size-fits-all education model.

 

ETA: I used the word poor when I mean something else. I changed the wording.

Oh- I wasn't trying to downgrade your concerns, as actually they are also my concerns- we just decided to apply for Medicaid after my husbands job again decided not to give him the two hours he needs for fulltime (despite hiring him fulltime 2 years ago and promising him healthcare-he works in a hospital-seriously)- and Medicaid want us to send in "proof" of homeschooling.  What does my childs education have to do with getting medical insurance.  I wrote a letter that we live in a low regulation state and so there isn't "proof" and politely told them their grade levels.

  I was just showing that some children may not die if they are under some sort of outside community.  I don't think that will prevent abuse, but will allow some children to get an education/food and will tide them over until they can get out of their abusive  homes.  

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I'm positive I don't know about every single high school kid in my district.  I'm also positive about those I know about because some kids do share - or some of their friends share with folks they think can help.

 

Humans are different and certainly not saints (at any age).  Bullied kids come from great (or average) parents pretty often too.  The idea that they only come from poor ($ or actions) parents is 100% wrong.

 

I can almost guarantee there stuff going on that you don't know about. some kids don't.. share.

 

I have an adulthood friend who is a school teacher.  she said the reason she thinks I wasn't believed was I was "too normal"..   I didn't look like I came from such a dysfunctional family - but it was.

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I can almost guarantee there stuff going on that you don't know about. some kids don't.. share.

 

I have an adulthood friend who is a school teacher.  she said the reason she thinks I wasn't believed was I was "too normal"..   I didn't look like I came from such a dysfunctional family - but it was.

 

I didn't disagree with you.  I'm sure there's stuff going on I don't know about too.  I also know there are things some kids report that isn't true - proven factually to be incorrect.  One lad told us his mom had been in the hospital and was quite ill. This is why he couldn't concentrate on his schoolwork.  Mom sure was surprised to learn about that!  (And checking with the hospital supported her, not the lad.)

 

Hearsay is just that.  Sometimes it's true and sometimes it isn't.  Sometimes the truth is in the middle of two (or more) stories.  That's life.  

 

The same real truth can also affect humans to different degrees.  Something one student can brush off having forgotten the next day affects another one deeply and they remember it for years.

 

Life gets more complicated than short segments of black and white.  The trick is figuring it all out so help can be offered or action taken when it's needed.

Edited by creekland
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Just out of curiosity, and totally OT, but what did you find useful about it?

I just felt grateful to do it- that someone is required to see my child and verify weĂ¢â‚¬â„¢re schooling, that DS is healthy, that IĂ¢â‚¬â„¢m Ă¢â‚¬Å“normalĂ¢â‚¬, etc. IĂ¢â‚¬â„¢m glad the other kids in this state get this minimum glance check, too. I donĂ¢â‚¬â„¢t think Homeschooling regulation and verification is perfect, and a once a year portfolio review can easily be conned, but IĂ¢â‚¬â„¢m grateful thereĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s some oversight. IĂ¢â‚¬â„¢m grateful for family and friends in our lives that could help us if needed or make sure the kids are safe. IĂ¢â‚¬â„¢m grateful for this board, which has provided me with hours of guidance, tips, encouragement, support, and knowledge. IĂ¢â‚¬â„¢m glad I have support systems and safety nets to help me in this journey.

 

But, to answer your question about usefulness - she did give a few tips about curriculum (she was an ESE teacher and DS has SLD), and portfolio streamlining verification. She was pretty experienced and I could see her being really helpful to a newly starting homeschool family. But, I spend so much time researching that IĂ¢â‚¬â„¢m an expert. Ă°Å¸Ëœâ€ 

Edited by displace
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I just felt grateful to do it- that someone is required to see my child and verify weĂ¢â‚¬â„¢re schooling, that DS is healthy, that IĂ¢â‚¬â„¢m Ă¢â‚¬Å“normalĂ¢â‚¬, etc. IĂ¢â‚¬â„¢m glad the other kids in this state get this minimum glance check, too. I donĂ¢â‚¬â„¢t think Homeschooling regulation and verification is perfect, and a once a year portfolio review can easily be conned, but IĂ¢â‚¬â„¢m grateful thereĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s some oversight. IĂ¢â‚¬â„¢m grateful for family and friends in our lives that could help us if needed or make sure the kids are safe. IĂ¢â‚¬â„¢m grateful for this board, which has provided me with hours of guidance, tips, encouragement, support, and knowledge. IĂ¢â‚¬â„¢m glad I have support systems and safety nets to help me in this journey.

 

But, to answer your question about usefulness - she did give a few tips about curriculum (see was an ESE teacher and DS has SLD), portfolio streamlining verification. She was pretty experienced and I could see her being really helpful to a newly starting homeschool family. But, I spend so much time researching that IĂ¢â‚¬â„¢m an expert, Ă°Å¸Ëœâ€ 

 

Just curious. I've often wished for that kind of individual support/guidance, especially now that I want to branch out into more interdisciplinary projects.

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Another interview from the family.  This is her younger sister and her half-brother.

 

They are horrified.

 

Weird back story about the elopement of the mom and Dad.  He checked her out of high school at 16, when she was a sophomore, and then they drove to Texas.  

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5289527/David-Louise-Turpin-eloped-16.html

Edited by umsami
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Just curious. I've often wished for that kind of individual support/guidance, especially now that I want to branch out into more interdisciplinary projects.

Honestly, for new homeschoolers who first register, I think a helpful thing might be a required (or maybe offered) meeting with someone to give a starter guidance, or have some type of intro class to go to and learn about Ă¢â‚¬Å“stuffĂ¢â‚¬. The first portfolio review here is due one year after starting homeschooling. Meeting with a knowledgeable homeschooling mom/ex-teacher is valuable, and might be most valuable when beginning. I had resources, went to conferences, had specialized training, etc, and I still could have benefited. We have a local homeschool non profit that tries to give starter meetings for the community on what to do or expect, but they arenĂ¢â‚¬â„¢t always available. And I bet a lot of places donĂ¢â‚¬â„¢t have anything like that at all.

Edited by displace
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Honestly, for new homeschoolers who first register, I think a helpful thing might be a required (or maybe offered) meeting with someone to give a starter guidance, or have some type of intro class to go to and learn about Ă¢â‚¬Å“stuffĂ¢â‚¬. The first portfolio review here is due one year after starting homeschooling. Meeting with a knowledgeable homeschooling mom/ex-teacher is valuable, and might be most valuable when beginning. I had resources, went to conferences, had specialized training, etc, and I still could have benefited. We have a local homeschool non profit that tries to give starter meetings for the community on what to do or expect, but they arenĂ¢â‚¬â„¢t always available. And I bet a lot of places donĂ¢â‚¬â„¢t have anything like that at all.

 

Or it could be mandatory that folks register (or at least lurk) on here - the education boards - and start gleaning information of all sorts.  ;)

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Honestly, for new homeschoolers who first register, I think a helpful thing might be a required (or maybe offered) meeting with someone to give a starter guidance, or have some type of intro class to go to and learn about Ă¢â‚¬Å“stuffĂ¢â‚¬. The first portfolio review here is due one year after starting homeschooling. Meeting with a knowledgeable homeschooling mom/ex-teacher is valuable, and might be most valuable when beginning. I had resources, went to conferences, had specialized training, etc, and I still could have benefited. We have a local homeschool non profit that tries to give starter meetings for the community on what to do or expect, but they arenĂ¢â‚¬â„¢t always available. And I bet a lot of places donĂ¢â‚¬â„¢t have anything like that at all.

This would be great, but I would much prefer it come from local homeschool groups.

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This would be great, but I would much prefer it come from local homeschool groups.

Right. Our county has a homeschooling department. IĂ¢â‚¬â„¢ve never spoken with them. Every teacher evaluator IĂ¢â‚¬â„¢ve heard of around here is or was also a homeschooler. So maybe teacher homeschoolers? They could give meetings or make a YouTube presentation about whatĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s available locally, online, options, coop groups that want to be listed, etc. Maybe update yearly so the information isnĂ¢â‚¬â„¢t out of date, etc. They could list elementary, middle, and high school specific, gifted, and disability information. My county is large and complex, with public, private, charter, virtual state, virtual county, part time, magnet, full time, homeschooling, etc. Information on a website isnĂ¢â‚¬â„¢t as good as a presentation might be.

Edited by displace
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people living at the extent of this family, or especially those who refuse to register their children's birth with the state - will be the first to go underground since they're nearly there already.

 

This is not true. The older kids are reported in California and Texas birth indexes, indicating birth certificates filed at the times of their births. It's online information in public databases.

 

The children wrote journals. Many journals.

 

Those are going to be damning.

 

The mother was 16 when she married her significantly older husband. Makes me wonder if she might be viewed as the first victim--one who then went on to victimize many others.

 

I'm not usually a revenge person, but I admit that a part of me really wishes these "parents" could be made to live for a year at least the way they forced their kids to live.

 

I thought I saw something indicating they were not married when the first child was born.

 

I said in the other thread that I can see both sides of the argument over more regulation. The thing is... While I'd be willing to deal with more regulation than we currently have in Virginia, even if I was grumpy when it came to review time....

 

I tend to think the best way to prevent abuse is more long-term, easily-available mental health treatment. Just like I think it would help prevent shootings, even though I'd also be willing to see more sensible regulation there. Just like I think providing birth control and sex education do more to prevent abortions than outlawing abortion does.

 

Long-term education and treatment that gets to root causes would get my vote. Something that helped the mother in this family when she was fifteen, coming from a family which had experienced abuse, before she went off with David Turpin. I think that's when her abuse of her own children might have been prevented.

 

So, the agencies struggling to look after children now need support. Children and teens who are struggling need diagnosis and treatment. And so on.

 

Have I knocked down enough hornet's nests yet? ;-)

 

Not me. I find Virginia too intrusive. Besides, the way the homeschool law is written in Virginia, I could claim Religious Exemption and have no more reporting to the state required at all. 

 

 

And let's add that the children were homebirthed and don't have birth certificates, or social security numbers.

 

Again, I am sure that is not true, since the children show up in birth indexes in both Texas and California. Generated by birth certificates, these are online public databases available to anyone who knows where to look. It includes only the children over 18, per state laws. I can see the kids there.

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This is not true. The older kids are reported in California and Texas birth indexes, indicating birth certificates filed at the times of their births. It's online information in public databases.

 

 

I thought I saw something indicating they were not married when the first child was born.

 

 

Not me. I find Virginia too intrusive. Besides, the way the homeschool law is written in Virginia, I could claim Religious Exemption and have no more reporting to the state required at all.

 

 

 

Again, I am sure that is not true, since the children show up in birth indexes in both Texas and California. Generated by birth certificates, these are online public databases available to anyone who knows where to look. It includes only the children over 18, per state laws. I can see the kids there.

Some of the posters you quoted were talking about hypothetical homeschoolers, not this particular family.

 

They were married when the wife was 16 and the husband 24, before children. The story is in some of the articles. They tried to elope to Texas, were found by police and brought back, then got married.

Edited by maize
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