ondreeuh Posted January 19, 2018 Author Share Posted January 19, 2018 If there are parents who simply want babysitting for their children, they should pay for this service somewhere other than a co-op. If parents want a free tutor, then inform them that is not the purpose of this co-op. I don't think these parents want babysitting. They want their kid to like this class, they see the value in the content, and it's a good way to make friends in our community. They just aren't really in touch with how "ready" their kid is for the class - interest-wise, behavior-wise, or ability-wise. So they try it out - and sometimes it doesn't work. THANK GOODNESS there are parents who recognize that if it's a bad fit, it's the kid who needs to move on. I am dreading the day when a parent insists on keeping a kid in a class that isn't working. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wintermom Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 (edited) Update - today was so much better. The really disruptive kid said straight up that he didn't want to be there. I explained that if someone doesn't want to come to this class, they can at least be respectful about it and try it with an open mind. If they are disruptive, then they cannot be in the class because is too distracting for the kids who want to be there. His mom backed me up 100%. I started out with an icebreaker where they got to talk to a kid they didn't already know well and fill out a Venn diagram to show in which ways they were similar and different. He refused to do it. Luckily my helper was able to get him to do the activity with her, During the class he really seemed to be trying to get himself kicked out. About halfway through his mom just took him out because she could see his attitude was affecting the whole class. Once he was out of the room it was an immediate difference; everyone relaxed a bit and we had a fun class! Everyone participated and they liked the activities. I talked to the mom afterwards and she totally agreed that he shouldn't come back to the class. I'll keep sending her the group emails with the assignments and such. She says he likes the book. So whew - I think it will be fine from here on out. The teen who had told his mom it was torture? He was grumpy for the first five minutes, but he got paired with a super sweet chatty girl who kind of drew him out of his shell - and he ended up having a lot to say in the class. So I'm not too worried about him. nm Edited January 19, 2018 by wintermom 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wintermom Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 (edited) I don't think these parents want babysitting. They want their kid to like this class, they see the value in the content, and it's a good way to make friends in our community. They just aren't really in touch with how "ready" their kid is for the class - interest-wise, behavior-wise, or ability-wise. So they try it out - and sometimes it doesn't work. THANK GOODNESS there are parents who recognize that if it's a bad fit, it's the kid who needs to move on. I am dreading the day when a parent insists on keeping a kid in a class that isn't working. nm Edited January 19, 2018 by wintermom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ondreeuh Posted January 19, 2018 Author Share Posted January 19, 2018 Halfway through the class and you didn't get rid of him yourself sounds like you are the problem now. You have to be the one to set up the limitations you are willing to put up with. And you sound far too willing to tolerate poor behaviour. This isn't meant to be unkind to you. I completely understand you have a huge heart. But who is your audience? The one kid who doesn't want to be there, or the whole rest of the class who does? Wow - you weren't there, and you are so quick to blame me? I never said what I did when he was disruptive. I didn't record the class and post the video - I gave a succinct summary. FYI, I didn't ignore the behavior - I stepped in, but his mom was right on him, correcting and redirecting him too. Most of it was subtle. Groaning, sighing, saying no when asked to participate. Nothing that was stopping the other kids from learning, just bringing the mood down. Super rude and unnecessary. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ondreeuh Posted January 19, 2018 Author Share Posted January 19, 2018 YOU are the course leader and have to set up some standards for appropriate behaviour. If you don't set them and enforce them, don't expect anyone else to do this for you. The other children in the class will start stepping all over you eventually because they'll be taught, by you, that you don't fix the problems. Can you stop offering advice now? Really not helpful, and totally undermining me. It shouldn't be this aggravating, because you are running your mouth, but it IS aggravating to be told I'm doing a horrible job when that is not the case. I have tutored many kids, and taught several classes. I have never had this issue before. I am not a doormat, and don't give off that persona at all (at least in person!). I'm baffled that you feel so justified in criticizing me this way. Just because I dread a situation doesn't mean I won't be able to handle it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 (edited) Halfway through the class and you didn't get rid of him yourself sounds like you are the problem now. You have to be the one to set up the limitations you are willing to put up with. And you sound far too willing to tolerate poor behaviour. This isn't meant to be unkind to you. I completely understand you have a huge heart. But who is your audience? The one kid who doesn't want to be there, or the whole rest of the class who does? Wow, honestly this harsh. Being an instructor who cares about her students, OP found that the first class did not go as well as hoped and she wanted to see if there was a better way to handle the situation. Some students were not well behaved or engaged. She was brainstorming ways to address the issue. I commend her for that. Her first class didn't work out the way she had hoped so she tried a bit different approach this time and for most students it apparently worked well. She didn't just kick out anyone and everyone who was not immediately engaged in the material or perfectly behaved and I applaud her decision. It seems to me she is a much more effective instructor if she is actively seeking ways to address the issues instead of simply giving up and washing her hands of the whole thing the minute things get a bit tough. She cares and works to find a solution if possible. That is what a good instructor does, IMHO. Edited January 19, 2018 by OneStepAtATime 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daijobu Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 I feel your pain, OP. I've been reading this thread and will re-read as I had a similar experience teaching at a sorta-kinda-coop situation for homeschoolers. I had one gal who did not want to be there. She told me so explicitly, wrote it on a piece of paper and held it over her head, and was just super unhappy to be there. I should have had her out of the class, but instead I thought I would make a bargain with the kids. They could participate in the class, or they could read quietly at their desks and not disrupt anyone. This did not work at all. At one point, I had all 4 kids reading at their desks! This semester I'm going to insist on full attention and make better use of the hall supervisor for disruptive kids. And I'm going to reread this thread (keep the advice coming!) for more ideas. If this semester doesn't go well, then next year I'm going to focus on one-on-one tutoring because there is a huge demand, and I'm just better at that. And I make a lot more money. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wintermom Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 Sorry, bad personal experience with a very sweet lady who would never make the call to remove disruptive children. Ruined the choir for everyone because of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earthmerlin Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 Update - today was so much better. The really disruptive kid said straight up that he didn't want to be there. I explained that if someone doesn't want to come to this class, they can at least be respectful about it and try it with an open mind. If they are disruptive, then they cannot be in the class because is too distracting for the kids who want to be there. His mom backed me up 100%. I started out with an icebreaker where they got to talk to a kid they didn't already know well and fill out a Venn diagram to show in which ways they were similar and different. He refused to do it. Luckily my helper was able to get him to do the activity with her, During the class he really seemed to be trying to get himself kicked out. About halfway through his mom just took him out because she could see his attitude was affecting the whole class. Once he was out of the room it was an immediate difference; everyone relaxed a bit and we had a fun class! Everyone participated and they liked the activities. I talked to the mom afterwards and she totally agreed that he shouldn't come back to the class. I'll keep sending her the group emails with the assignments and such. She says he likes the book. So whew - I think it will be fine from here on out. The teen who had told his mom it was torture? He was grumpy for the first five minutes, but he got paired with a super sweet chatty girl who kind of drew him out of his shell - and he ended up having a lot to say in the class. So I'm not too worried about him. I like your Venn icebreaker! I'll add it to my repertoire. It's a good way to create a positive classroom climate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 Even though you brought into the conversation the adhd kiddos, reading further into the thread it sounds like the obvious issue is the kid who doesn't want to be there. At least the adhd kids are (according to you) enthusiastic about the class, which makes it a lot easier to deal with their fidgeting and occasional goofing off. It sounds like you are handling it well on your end. I might suggest that the next time you teach a class, make it very clear (prior to parents registering their kids) that the children must want to be there. Period. This isn't a public school classroom, this is a private co-op. It sounds like these kids came right from public school? If so, the child who doesn't want to be there may be generally done with classroom situations right now, kwim? His mother may need to be gently reminded of this, and that it isn't at all uncommon for kids coming out of a brick and mortar school situation. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ondreeuh Posted January 19, 2018 Author Share Posted January 19, 2018 Even though you brought into the conversation the adhd kiddos, reading further into the thread it sounds like the obvious issue is the kid who doesn't want to be there. At least the adhd kids are (according to you) enthusiastic about the class, which makes it a lot easier to deal with their fidgeting and occasional goofing off. It sounds like you are handling it well on your end. I might suggest that the next time you teach a class, make it very clear (prior to parents registering their kids) that the children must want to be there. Period. This isn't a public school classroom, this is a private co-op. It sounds like these kids came right from public school? If so, the child who doesn't want to be there may be generally done with classroom situations right now, kwim? His mother may need to be gently reminded of this, and that it isn't at all uncommon for kids coming out of a brick and mortar school situation. Yeah, I did tell her that today. I don't know what else is going on with him, but I think the immediate resistance to the classroom is an indicator that he needs a break. I have asked a couple of my friends who are also part of this co-op about having a disclaimer in my next class description (basically saying to please only enroll your kid if they want to be there) and was given a vehement no by both. I think they thought it sounded exclusionary. Again, we are so small that we only have one class per age group in each hour. I'll bring it up again at our next board meeting. I would love to have a second class offered as an alternative, but we need more moms to do that! Another option is to offer the class at my house at a different time, but I really think attendance would suffer. Some families live quite a ways out, and I just don't think they'll be able to swing a second drive in. If I had just three interested, committed kids (along with my own), that would make it worth it for me. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 Sorry, bad personal experience with a very sweet lady who would never make the call to remove disruptive children. Ruined the choir for everyone because of it. I sympathize. BTDT. And it was a choir director here, too. Very frustrating. I think removal in our case, while probably helpful to the other choir members, wouldn't have been necessary if she had been clearer on the rules from the beginning and had reinforced structure in a calm but firm manner consistently every practice. Instead she said literally nothing, I guess hoping the student would glean that the behaviors were disruptive and disrespectful just through peer pressure? Osmosis? No clue. It definitely was a very frustrating situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homemommy83 Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 ​I can understand difficult children, time and enforcement of expectations and consequences will go a long way towards the way the disruptive children behave. ​I cannot understand a mother saying what she said to you! I would have told my son to tell me 3 nice things about the class, and unless there is abusive attitudes or actions not to tell me that again! I also hated being the "good" child and needing to babysit the "trouble makers". I am a briber-lol, I would have a special basket with pretty smelly pencils for children who are on their game. I would also do a sticker chart (yes even older children) and if they lose 2 points their is no sticker- at the end of the coop season, children with a certain amount get a Dairy Queen $5 certificate. I never reward bad behavior, and always try to reward good behavior when teaching in groups. Extra stickers go to children who show the daily "character quality". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homemommy83 Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 From all that I have read of your many post- YOU ARE AN AMAZING ATTENTIVE MOTHER. I love your post, as they always encourage me on how wonderful the homeschool moms are on this board. I guess I feel differently than most people here.I have a kid with add and he just doesn't do things he's not reasonably prepared to do on his own, on his own. I don't walk away and leave him during communal times at his weekly play co-op, for example.I don't love it when homeschoolers foist kids who can't handle situations alone into those situations and just have a shruggy attitude about it like now it's not their problem. Public and private school kids absolutely have to be there in all their classes-- it is THE way they are receiving their education. Homeschool parents utilizing co-op by definition could be making another choice.So in other words I think it's a parent problem, not a teacher problem. Even if the class is as FUN! as watching rocks deteriorate over the millenia, the people present should be able to figure out how to handle themselves after some common-sense help from the teachers. If they can't, they either shouldn't be there, or their parents should make arrangements for someone else (not the teachers) to sit right by their side and guide them.Blatant disregard for the co-op teachers hard work is how co-ops lose enthusiastic teachers.So I guess my question is, is it relatively straight forward for students to disenroll? And my advice is either send them to their parents or explain to the parents that if they start taking the class off the rails again, they can't come back alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wintermom Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 (edited) I sympathize. BTDT. And it was a choir director here, too. Very frustrating. I think removal in our case, while probably helpful to the other choir members, wouldn't have been necessary if she had been clearer on the rules from the beginning and had reinforced structure in a calm but firm manner consistently every practice. Instead she said literally nothing, I guess hoping the student would glean that the behaviors were disruptive and disrespectful just through peer pressure? Osmosis? No clue. It definitely was a very frustrating situation. I was the accompanist and literally stuck there waiting as time was wasted, energy wasted, trying to stay calm. My own kids were in the choir, too, and week after week they began hating going because it was painful for them to sit next to disruptive time wasters. I wonder how people actually believe that they can change a child's behaviour when you see them once a week for an hour. Really? You think you have that kind of influence over them? Some kids you might, but some you don't and probably never will. Edited January 20, 2018 by wintermom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternalsummer Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 I was the accompanist and literally stuck there waiting as time was wasted, energy wasted, trying to stay calm. My own kids were in the choir, too, and week after week they began hating going because it was painful for them to sit next to disruptive time wasters. I wonder how people actually believe that they can change a child's behaviour when you see them once a week for an hour. Really? You think you have that kind of influence over them? Some kids you might, but some you don't and probably never will. I think you can have a lot of influence in that hour. You're not going to change the kid overall, or change how she behaves in math later in the day, but you can definitely (generally speaking) have kids who behave differently in different environments. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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