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AOPS Intro Algebra question


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#1 silver

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 02:15 PM

I remember reading that a traditional Algebra I course would only used a portion of the AOPS Intro Algebra book. Can anyone tell me what chapters would make up Algebra I? If anyone has split it up like this, what did you use for Algebra II?

#2 TracyP

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 08:29 AM

Through CH. 12 is the recommendation I usually read. We made it through CH. 11, and I have no problem calling that Algebra 1. We used AoPS Geometry the following year. This year we are combining AoPS and Lial's Intermediate Algebra for Algebra 2. Doing both is probably overkill, but AoPS has become very slow for us; I'm not sure we we'll finish it this year. I see Lial's as our main program with AoPS adding a nice challenge.
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#3 Roadrunner

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 11:18 AM

Why? Are you planning on switching the programs? If not, just call the entire book Algebra 1 and Intermediate Algebra book Algebra 2. What’s what we are doing.
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#4 serendipitous journey

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 01:30 PM

The above split seems about right -- chapters 1 - 11/12 for a fairly traditional Algebra I coverage, then the rest would be most of Algebra II (not totally identical with the usual Algebra II is my understanding; you can peek at the Well Trained Mind Academy syllabus for Algebra II with AoPS, they do use at least part of an additional resource for that course). 

 

I'm linking a scheduling help I found invaluable, if you are one who wants or needs to plan a general schedule: StephanieZ's pacing is the best baseline I've found.  Lots of folks say not to schedule AoPS, and if your child does well working for x minutes per day or some other format, hurrah! but mine just doesn't. 

 

ETA: I myself would happily start out calling the book Algebra I and Algebra II.  If you keep going with the progression and do the Intermediate book you can relabel it.  I'm not sure how we'll label it ourselves, and I see where Roadrunner is coming from: just do what makes sense to you right now. 


Edited by serendipitous journey, 06 January 2018 - 01:32 PM.

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#5 silver

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 02:49 PM

It's not so much that I'm planning on switching but more than we aren't completely sure what we're doing for high school (homeschool or b&m school). If we'll continue with homeschooling, I'd be fine with continuing with AoPS at my son's pace and giving him the math credit when he finishes a book, even if it takes 1.5-2 years or whatever. If he'll be switching to a b&m school, proper math placement will work better if he has completed a full Algebra II.

 

I guess I was asking the wrong questions? The first one is what chapters count for Algebra I, the second would be if the rest of the book counts as Algebra II, or if another book or resource is needed in addition to AoPS to do that.

 

I guess it's also nice to know where the "bail" point would be if it turns out that AoPS isn't a great fit. He's doing OK with their PreA so far, but since he's only in chapter 5 right now, it feels too early to say for sure.



#6 deerforest

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 03:49 PM

This thread had a good response from AoPS about what counts as Algebra 2.

 

http://forums.welltr...the-aops-texts/


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#7 silver

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 04:03 PM

This thread had a good response from AoPS about what counts as Algebra 2.

 

http://forums.welltr...the-aops-texts/

 

Thanks! This is good information. :)



#8 snowbeltmom

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 04:10 PM

The above split seems about right -- chapters 1 - 11/12 for a fairly traditional Algebra I coverage, then the rest would be most of Algebra II (not totally identical with the usual Algebra II is my understanding; you can peek at the Well Trained Mind Academy syllabus for Algebra II with AoPS, they do use at least part of an additional resource for that course). 
 
I'm linking a scheduling help I found invaluable, if you are one who wants or needs to plan a general schedule: StephanieZ's pacing is the best baseline I've found.  Lots of folks say not to schedule AoPS, and if your child does well working for x minutes per day or some other format, hurrah! but mine just doesn't. 
 
ETA: I myself would happily start out calling the book Algebra I and Algebra II.  If you keep going with the progression and do the Intermediate book you can relabel it.  I'm not sure how we'll label it ourselves, and I see where Roadrunner is coming from: just do what makes sense to you right now.

Fwiw, on my kids' transcripts, I split the Intro Alg. book into two credits, Alg. I and Alg. II. I award an additional credit for the Intermediate book.
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#9 Roadrunner

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 05:05 PM

If you are planning on going back to school, look at the Common Core Algebra 1. They cover functions in Algebra 1, which is most definitely in latter chapters of the intro.book.
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#10 serendipitous journey

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 05:36 PM


I guess it's also nice to know where the "bail" point would be if it turns out that AoPS isn't a great fit. He's doing OK with their PreA so far, but since he's only in chapter 5 right now, it feels too early to say for sure.

 

The PreA feels very different than the Algebra, to me at least.  I would say that you could bail any time, though you do want to give it a good try.  If you have to switch, then here's how I'd handle it (did this at one point for my child): if you switch to a standard Algebra text, give end-of-chapter tests (once a day or so, for the child's math time) until he starts scoring less than 80-90%, then start teaching necessary topics and just go forward from there, skipping any topics that the child has mastered if you wish -- or letting them be a refreshingly easy review!


Edited by serendipitous journey, 06 January 2018 - 05:37 PM.

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#11 silver

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 07:39 PM

If you are planning on going back to school, look at the Common Core Algebra 1. They cover functions in Algebra 1, which is most definitely in latter chapters of the intro.book.

 

I'll take a look at that. I know my Algebra 1 class (many, many years ago) covered the quadratic formula and graphing quadratic functions, and those are after chapter 10. Right now I'm thinking that we'll go through the whole book (assuming AoPS continues to be a good fit), and if we decide to go back to school for high school, we'll cover the Algebra 2 topics not yet covered and call it good. I'm pretty sure that it will take him more than a year to finish the Intro to Algebra book, but he's young, so he has time to do that and get the solid foundation that AoPS provides.


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#12 GeoKitty

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 08:44 PM

Fwiw, on my kids' transcripts, I split the Intro Alg. book into two credits, Alg. I and Alg. II. I award an additional credit for the Intermediate book.


Snowbeltmom,

This is what I plan to do. DD just finished the Intro book. May I ask, what did you call the third credit for the Intermediate book? Thanks!

#13 JennyD

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 11:47 PM

This thread is so illuminating!   My son has been taking what seemed to me an inordinately long time to work through the AoPS Intro to Algebra book.  And I certainly didn't remember learning about things like inverse functions when I took Algebra I way back when, but my own math education was so mediocre that I always hesitate to use it as a yardstick.  I had no idea that AoPS Intro Algebra went so far beyond the standard curriculum. 

 


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#14 Alte Veste Academy

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 02:18 AM

Fwiw, on my kids' transcripts, I split the Intro Alg. book into two credits, Alg. I and Alg. II. I award an additional credit for the Intermediate book.

Snowbeltmom,

This is what I plan to do. DD just finished the Intro book. May I ask, what did you call the third credit for the Intermediate book? Thanks!



Not snowbeltmom, but I'm interested in the answer too. I plan to use Richard Ruscyzk's recommendations found in this AoPS thread about the intermediate book and this one about Algebra 3.

So...

Algebra 1 = Introduction to Algebra Ch. 1-13

Algebra 2 = Introduction to Algebra Ch. 14-22

Advanced Algebra and Precalculus = Intermediate Algebra (their Algebra 3)

Precalculus with Introductory Linear Algebra = Precalculus

Edited by Alte Veste Academy, 07 January 2018 - 03:04 AM.

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#15 Alte Veste Academy

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 02:21 AM

This thread is so illuminating!   My son has been taking what seemed to me an inordinately long time to work through the AoPS Intro to Algebra book.  And I certainly didn't remember learning about things like inverse functions when I took Algebra I way back when, but my own math education was so mediocre that I always hesitate to use it as a yardstick.  I had no idea that AoPS Intro Algebra went so far beyond the standard curriculum. 

 

Yes, given the enormous difference in depth and breadth between AoPS and traditional materials, I think counting the credits book for book on the transcript is unfair to the student. I was glad to find RR's recommendations!



#16 snowbeltmom

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 08:23 AM

Snowbeltmom,

This is what I plan to do. DD just finished the Intro book. May I ask, what did you call the third credit for the Intermediate book? Thanks!


I named it Algebra III, which was (not sure if AoPS still uses this name or not) the same name that AoPS used for its online class.

ETA: After reading the later responses, I like the titles AVA listed in her reply. I think I will use those on my D's transcript.

Edited by snowbeltmom, 07 January 2018 - 08:46 AM.

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#17 deerforest

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 12:17 PM

I think we've decided to complete the full Intro to Algebra book and call it algebra 1 and 2, and then do geometry. 

 

It looks like we're still on track to end this school year somewhere between chapters 11-13 so we will just keep going. I try to do math whenever we can during the summers. DD works as a camp counselor several weeks so we don't officially school year-round. But, I think I'll also add in some geometry from Great Courses to do alongside us finishing algebra 2 so we can be more prepared to use AoPS geometry too. I just ordered the books yesterday so I can start working through them.

 

I suspect geometry will be our last AoPS course. So, I'll have to figure out what to do after that. This should keep us busy through 10th grade so I'm hoping to convince her to do DE for 11th and 12th.


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#18 snowbeltmom

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 01:01 PM

I think we've decided to complete the full Intro to Algebra book and call it algebra 1 and 2, and then do geometry. 
 
It looks like we're still on track to end this school year somewhere between chapters 11-13 so we will just keep going. I try to do math whenever we can during the summers. DD works as a camp counselor several weeks so we don't officially school year-round. But, I think I'll also add in some geometry from Great Courses to do alongside us finishing algebra 2 so we can be more prepared to use AoPS geometry too. I just ordered the books yesterday so I can start working through them.
 
I suspect geometry will be our last AoPS course. So, I'll have to figure out what to do after that. This should keep us busy through 10th grade so I'm hoping to convince her to do DE for 11th and 12th.


Just a fwiw from my experiences with my kids: My kids felt that the geometry course was the least useful course. If I had to do it over again, I would have chosen a less rigorous textbook for geometry. I felt that many of the problems were overkill for someone who wasn't aiming for a high score in the math Olympiad competition. If time was limited, I would complete the Intermediate Algebra book and do something easier/less time consuming for geometry. Just my 2 cents in case you find it useful.
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#19 daijobu

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 01:27 PM

Not snowbeltmom, but I'm interested in the answer too. I plan to use Richard Ruscyzk's recommendations found in this AoPS thread about the intermediate book and this one about Algebra 3.

So...

Algebra 1 = Introduction to Algebra Ch. 1-13

Algebra 2 = Introduction to Algebra Ch. 14-22

Advanced Algebra and Precalculus = Intermediate Algebra (their Algebra 3)

Precalculus with Introductory Linear Algebra = Precalculus

 

This is brilliant.  Thank you so much for posting.  (Off to edit dd's transcript...)

 

...and thank you for the AoPS link.


Edited by daijobu, 07 January 2018 - 01:29 PM.

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#20 deerforest

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 01:29 PM

Just a fwiw from my experiences with my kids: My kids felt that the geometry course was the least useful course. If I had to do it over again, I would have chosen a less rigorous textbook for geometry. I felt that many of the problems were overkill for someone who wasn't aiming for a high score in the math Olympiad competition. If time was limited, I would complete the Intermediate Algebra book and do something easier/less time consuming for geometry. Just my 2 cents in case you find it useful.

Thanks--I actually spent a lot of time researching geometry over the past few months and discussed this a bit in the High School forum. The problem is, my DD LOVES AoPS. Truly loves it even though it takes her longer to do. She and I looked at several other geometry programs and just weren't as thrilled at all. I was worried about going into it right away since it doesn't have the support of videos and everything that she's used to. That's partly why I decided to just continue with the familiar -- the algebra book as it transitions away from those support tools. I'm going to use Patty Paper Geometry and Great Courses before we go to AoPS. I have Jurgenson and Jacob geometry too. Because, well, I buy everything "just in case". 


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#21 Alte Veste Academy

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 02:51 PM

This is brilliant.  Thank you so much for posting.  (Off to edit dd's transcript...)
 
...and thank you for the AoPS link.

  

I named it Algebra III, which was (not sure if AoPS still uses this name or not) the same name that AoPS used for its online class.ETA: After reading the later responses, I like the titles AVA listed in her reply. I think I will use those on my D's transcript.


Just to be clear, those were Richard Rusczyk's proposed titles, not mine. :)
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#22 Roadrunner

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Posted 08 January 2018 - 01:05 AM

For those in CA, both Algebra B course (which covers second half of the Intro text) and Intermediate Algebra book are listed as equivalent to Algebra 2 for UC a through g.
Counting and probability is listed as “advanced mathematics.”
So if you are in CA, you might want to keep Intermediate Algebra as Algebra 2 (assuming you are applying to UCs).
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#23 Alte Veste Academy

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Posted 08 January 2018 - 10:06 AM

For those in CA, both Algebra B course (which covers second half of the Intro text) and Intermediate Algebra book are listed as equivalent to Algebra 2 for UC a through g.
Counting and probability is listed as “advanced mathematics.”
So if you are in CA, you might want to keep Intermediate Algebra as Algebra 2 (assuming you are applying to UCs).

 

That is very interesting (and a little sad to me, as if you could take one or the other and it would be roughly the same...nope! LOL) It's great that you posted though, to let the CA people know that. 


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#24 crazyforlatin

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 03:10 PM

For those in CA, both Algebra B course (which covers second half of the Intro text) and Intermediate Algebra book are listed as equivalent to Algebra 2 for UC a through g.
Counting and probability is listed as “advanced mathematics.”
So if you are in CA, you might want to keep Intermediate Algebra as Algebra 2 (assuming you are applying to UCs).


Now I'm wondering if anyone in the UC system bothered to go through the books and value what a student goes through to go through Int. Algebra.

#25 Roadrunner

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 03:36 PM

Now I'm wondering if anyone in the UC system bothered to go through the books and value what a student goes through to go through Int. Algebra.

I don’t worry too much about this. A ton of Algebra 1 has been pushed down into middle school with Common Core, so new Algebra 1 doesn’t look like the same course it once used to be, at least not in our local schools. I used to have an Integrated 3 math book on my shelf (gave it away to somebody who would actually use it) and there is no doubt a chunk of Intermediate Algebra is Algebra 2, even if it is painfully difficult. As far as extra content goes, it’s a book for math lovers, so I guess we chose to suffer for the reward of math knowledge. 😂 I just think it doesn’t fit into the description of any other class. They could have classified it as “advanced math” along the same lines as Counting & Probability, but if you think about it, it fits into Algebra 2 mold close enough.
I am going to label it as AOPS does (Intermediate Algebra) since I am using their transcript (we take classes with them).
And I doubt anyone in admissions really understands or cares which math book or provider we use.

Edited by Roadrunner, 09 January 2018 - 03:38 PM.

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#26 Sneezyone

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 01:06 AM

I don’t worry too much about this. A ton of Algebra 1 has been pushed down into middle school with Common Core, so new Algebra 1 doesn’t look like the same course it once used to be, at least not in our local schools. I used to have an Integrated 3 math book on my shelf (gave it away to somebody who would actually use it) and there is no doubt a chunk of Intermediate Algebra is Algebra 2, even if it is painfully difficult.

I think a lot of ppl don’t realize just how true this is. I’ve said it here before but the new CC Algebra 1 at DDs school *begins* with factoring quadratics not arithmetic review. Dolciani Algebra, for ex. is much closer to DDs CC Math 7 class than the new CC Algebra 1. Algebra 2 also goes further than it used to.
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