Homeschooling a reluctant teenager

[2ndGenHomeschooler]

This is my first post on the high school boards and I’ll admit to being intimidated by the very need to be here. Added to that, my 13yo soon-to-be high schooler dislikes school and has been difficult lately. Mostly just putting it off, avoiding it, doing sloppy work, and generally making me sit with her and drag her through assignments.

 

We’ve been homeschooling since the beginning with an eclectic approach roughly leaning towards classical and CM. My DD likes to read and loves anything artistic - drawing, painting, crocheting, sewing, music, etc. If I try to incorporate any of these things into school work she complains and gives me sloppy work or doesn’t finish reading the books I assign. She dislikes anything with even a hint of possibly being “schoolâ€, even if she’d enjoy it if it was her own idea. She hates writing and science. At this point she has no desire to go to college but I’m hoping as she matures that she’ll change her mind. Regardless, I want her high school education to prepare her for at least community college.

 

I’m looking for curriculum options that are basically “good enoughâ€. I want all the bases covered but without any extra, time-consuming, fluff. For reference, here is the list of what we’re currently using and our experience with them:

 

Bible - Who Is God? series from Apologia. We’re doing book 3 this year. We’ve enjoyed it. DD doesn’t seem to mind it. I read aloud and we all discuss.

 

Math - SM Dimensions. She likes SM. We’re a little behind and I plan to continue this through 8b. That should cover Algebra 1.

 

History - we’ve been doing SOTW. We’re on book 4. I read aloud and the kids narrate. I occasionally assign extra reading and projects to fill in. We’ve really enjoyed this. I’ve considered doing US History and government next year and would love to find something similar to SOTW - but at high school level, of course.

 

Science - Apologia. She doesn’t mind doing the experiments but doesn’t like the rest - reading, studying, answering questions, filling out lab reports. I like it but maybe there’s something better for her. Or maybe she’ll hate whatever we do because she doesn’t like science.

 

Grammar- Fix-It Grammar. I’m not sure what I think about this we’re only on Level 2. On the plus side, it doesn’t take long to do.

 

Writing- IEW. We’ve done this for a couple years now and are doing a theme book for the first time this year. I really like the theme books. It doesn’t take DD long to do each day. Her writing has improved with the formulaic approach but I’m wondering if it’s time to switch to something else just for a different perspective.

 

Other - we really need to work on spelling. Literature has been tied to other subjects but should maybe be covered more formally. I need to figure out a foreign language.

 

I’ve looked at MFW but I’m not sure it’s exactly what I’m looking for and I can’t find many reviews on it. Any other curriculum suggestions or tips for getting my DD invested in her own education. I do plan to talk to her soon but I want to do a little research first. I don’t want to just tell her what to do in high school. I’d like her to be part of the decision making process. I just don’t know if she’ll cooperate with that.

[OneStepAtATime]

Have you considered an outside class? Either local or on-line. It might help her perspective/motivation to have some accountability from a source other than Mom.

[2ndGenHomeschooler]

Have you considered an outside class? Either local or on-line. It might help her perspective/motivation to have some accountability from a source other than Mom.

Hmm...that might be a good idea. She takes piano lessons and goes to karate, we’re also looking to add art lessons. But maybe something academic would be good. There aren’t any local, academic co-ops in our area for high schoolers (except maybe Classical Conversations which I don’t think I’m interested in) but maybe I could outsource a subject to an online class. I think some people around here have their 14yos start classes at a CC. I should look into that too. We really need to work on study skills too. I meant to make a point of that this school year but it hasn’t happened so far.

[teachermom2834]

Just my experience and take it for what it is worth- my reluctant/resistant student never did do well for me at home. Every time I lowered the bar to "just good enough" he would lower his effort. I just wanted a minimum I could call high school graduation and yet I never could make the bar low enough 😟

 

Outsourcing was the only thing that got it done. He did fine work (As and Bs) for online and co-op classes while complaining they were horrible and the teachers were mean and annoying and unreasonable.

 

As an 11th grader (because we were running out of co-op and online options) he started dual enrollment at local university. Total turnaround! He will graduate high school in May with a 3.9 GPA in 35 college credit hours. He enjoys class and spending time on campus and has developed relationships with his professors. Hard to believe, really. He will go away to college in the fall with scholarships.

 

Now, I know nothing about you or your dd. Just wanted to share my story of my late bloomer and resistant homeschool student. I LOVE homeschooling but it just was never going to work with this kid and I had to find other ways.

 

Good luck to you. I am sure you will get good advice here that is more applicable but just remember that this age is very difficult and she will grow and change a lot.

Edited December 30, 2017 by teachermom2834

[OneStepAtATime]

You might consider something like Art History.  DD was similar in her attitude regarding academics at that age.  I signed her up for an Art History course.  She wasn't that interested but once she started the class it was wonderful.  She ended up taking several time periods from the same teacher and has loved all of them.

 

Excelsior is a good option.  Ms. Rapalje is very enthusiastic, knowledgeable and supportive.

http://excelsiorclasses.com/classes/

 

There are tons of on-line options from many different sources.  You might check out the Master List of On-Line classes on the Gen Ed board.  You won't be able to see the Fall line-up yet but you could maybe get a feel for some of the providers.

[JanetC]

I agree with teachermom -- getting out of the house and into more challenging experiences away from the family may be more successful than lowering the bar. In addition to sufficient academic challenge, look at "adulting" challenges -- a driver's license, a paid or volunteer job, nontrivial responsibilities. Teens seem to naturally want to run in packs -- activities with fellow teens are often important.

[2ndGenHomeschooler]

Just my experience and take it for what it is worth- my reluctant/resistant student never did do well for me at home. Every time I lowered the bar to "just good enough" he would lower his effort. I just wanted a minimum I could call high school graduation and yet I never could make the bar low enough 😟

 

This is exactly where I’m at with DD. I keep asking less of her just so she’ll get it done. But every time I require less she puts in less effort. I’m going to either need to require what I want and then drag her through or consider outsourcing I think. I’m pretty sure she’d do the work for other people.

[teachermom2834]

I agree with teachermom -- getting out of the house and into more challenging experiences away from the family may be more successful than lowering the bar. In addition to sufficient academic challenge, look at "adulting" challenges -- a driver's license, a paid or volunteer job, nontrivial responsibilities. Teens seem to naturally want to run in packs -- activities with fellow teens are often important.

Yes! I should have added that along with the dual enrollment my reluctant teen also started working a lot outside the home and driving. He benefited from someone other than mom requiring a job be done correctly. Actually, he took it to heart to be corrected and guided by employers and when he was praised it was meaningful to him too. It was as though he didn't believe my standards were reasonable or accept my praise and encouragement. He needed to come from outside the home.

 

I hate to suggest non-homeschooling answers to a homeschool problem and I'm not a believer that kids need to get away from their parents. But mine just needed something different than I knew how to offer. I am ridiculously proud of him now. He has done well in de and employment and saved a good chunk of money for college. Most of all, he has apologized for ages 12-15 yo :)

 

Hang in there!

[2ndGenHomeschooler]

I agree with teachermom -- getting out of the house and into more challenging experiences away from the family may be more successful than lowering the bar. In addition to sufficient academic challenge, look at "adulting" challenges -- a driver's license, a paid or volunteer job, nontrivial responsibilities. Teens seem to naturally want to run in packs -- activities with fellow teens are often important.

Thank you for this. It’s definitely something to consider. For the rest of this school year I want to to work on study skills, organization, and life skills while providing tons of accountability and scaffolding. She probably needs more one-on-one time with my than DS8 if I’m being honest. Maybe extra work and patience will help get her through this rough spot. I’ll also be researching options for completely changing up our approach next year in case that’s our best bet. I’ve been reading through some of the sticky threads on this post tonight and finding a lot to think about.

[Arcadia]

My 8th grader just turned 13 this month. Having outsourced classes where grades doesn’t count for high school GPA has been helpful in cultivating study skills, asking teachers for clarification and help, as well as improving his time management skills. He will do the bare minimum for anything he isn’t interested in but he doesn’t kick a fuss, just pull a long face while doing. My expectations are higher than his outsourced teachers though. He has gone from public school to outsourced classes and tutors. He won’t do work for my husband and me. He need classmates to suffer together.

 

My 7th grader is the reluctant learner and we have to nag even for outsourced classes but he won’t do anything for my husband or me so getting a B for outsourced classes is still better than tantrums and lots of procrastination. Luckily he is a decent test taker.

 

My boys dislike formal lessons for art and music so we do short summer camps (classes) for those every year to lay the foundation (basic skills). My DS13 enjoys reading and he read the Art History textbook (Gardner’s Art Through the Ages: A Global History). He might just do art history as his fine art elective.

Edited December 31, 2017 by Arcadia

[GoodGrief]

This can be a really tough age for girls, and tougher for some than others. If you can find an interest she can get excited about, be it academic or not, that can help. For my oldest, that was theatre. Something that gets her out and interacting. My oldest did try a year of public school for ninth grade. The positive thing about that was that it helped her realize the problem wasn't homeschooling.

[Lori D.]

Welcome to the "big kid" board. ?

First, totally agree with kand and teachermom2834 about outsourcing. I teach Lit. & Writing classes at our homeschool co-op, and I can't tell you how many moms tell me: "She/he will write for you, but won't write for me." My own DSs gave a lot more effort to anyone other than me. sigh. So,another vote for outsourcing, if that is what it takes for a student to get it done.

Just a few other thoughts:

First, have you ruled out any possible learning/processing issues? Along about age 12, it becomes increasingly difficult for students with mild LDs to continue to barely hang on in their struggle areas or to "keep up". And many students "mask" their learning struggles with hostility and anger.

Second: if DD is young, perhaps consider making next year a bonus year of middle school before starting high school to get solid in the LA (writing, grammar, spelling, and formal literature study/literary analysis) and the study skills? That could possibly make taking that step up into high school level of rigor easier, since she dislikes so many school subjects...

And finally, just for your general high school planning, most colleges require a certain credits to have been completed in high school in order to eligible for college admission; for a majority of colleges that looks something like this:

4 credits = English
3-4 credits = Math (Alg. 1, Geometry, Alg. 2, plus a possible 4th math requiring Alg. 2 as a pre-requisite)
3-4 credits = Science, with labs (a few colleges want Biology and Chemistry, but most are very flexible)
3-4 credits = Social Studies (most colleges want 1 credit = Amer. Hist.; some also want 1 credit = World Hist/Geog or 0.5 credit each Econ & Gov't)
2-4 credits = Foreign Language (same language)
1 credit = Fine Arts
4-8+ credits = Electives (examples: Bible, Health, PE, Computer, Vocational-Tech, personal interest areas, additional Fine Arts, etc.)
22-28+ credits = total

One credit = a one year course, done roughly 1 hour/day, 4-5 days/week. So doing 5-6 credits per year of high school will get a student through the required credits needed to keep open the door for possible future college.

Community colleges don't require completion of credits like this, BUT, they DO require students to take a placement/assessment test upon entry, to make sure the student has the needed minimum math, reading, and writing skills in order to take the classes the student wants to take. Students who do not have the minimum required skills must start with remedial courses first before moving in to the courses they are interested in. Completing the list of credits above prepares a student to place well on that entry assessment test, which means the student won't have to waste time with remedial courses first.

As far as getting DD's "buy in" for high school work:

You might try coming at this from possible end-result jobs, and working backwards with DD to see what education and training is required after high school for these different jobs, and then plan together what credits will be needed in high school in order to meet requirements to get that post-high school education or training.

For example, together, you and DD might try starting some career exploration every other Friday afternoon as a fun way to finish up the school week. Have DD do some interest inventory tests, or just explore on career websites. For example, from the US Bureau of Labor's Occupational Outlook Handbook website, here are some Arts and Design occupations. Clicking on each will pull up more detailed info about the job, the pay, the outlook (how many jobs are projected for the future, and is it a growing, flat, or dying job area), and esp: what does it take to become one. From there, you can look at universities and community colleges near you and see what requirements they have for getting in to their programs.

Also explore jobs that are available with only a high school diploma. That can be eye-opening for a student -- either that there are some things they *would* be interested in that are on-the-job training, OR, that the job market can be very limited with only a high school diploma, depending on what the student is interested in doing as a career. That can help make high school more relevant -- using the time to heavily prep for real life if not going to college (so, personal finance and life skills focus), or seeing that those required credits for college prep really are going to be needed to jump the hoop to get to the training/education for the desired job.

You might also look in to doing some of your credits more creatively. For example, for science, since DD hates science but loves to read, you might look at one of these literature-based science courses:

- Story of Science (Joy Hakim) -- 1 year program; integrated science; no labs (but you could add some)
- Integrated Physics & Chemistry (John Tiner) -- 2 year program; no labs (but you could add them)
- Guest Hollow's High School Chemistry in the Kitchen -- 1 year program; with labs

Or, consider going with non-traditional science topics (so, NOT Biology, Chemistry, Physics) that might be of interest to DD:

- Equine (Horse) Science
- Environmental Science
- Ecology
- Botany
- Horticulture (Gardening)
- Meteorology (Weather)
- Geology or Earth Science
- Astronomy

For Government, consider participating in a local mock legislative group like the YMCA's Youth & Gov't program for actual hands-on. Before chucking that idea out the window, let me say that NEITHER of my DSs were or are the least bit interested in politics, law, being lawyers, etc. But they LOVED being a part of this group, and asked to return each year. I was the advisor for 3 years, and of all the students in our delegation over that time, not one has gone into law or politics -- everyone went in to very different unrelated fields -- but they are very much enjoyed writing their own bills, debating, etc. (And none of the students in our delegation were "into" speech & debate, either. ? ) You might look at Teen Pact, a less intensive, Christian version of mock legislation as a way of much less painfully getting part of your Government credit checked off. ?

For History, can you do it with another family or two, so your DD has peer support/pressure to get it done? And it do some hands-on projects together as part of the credit?

I know the early teen years can be so hormonal and emotional, but perhaps at a non-school time you and DD can talk about growing up, thinking of others, and "doing hard things" -- like not taking out anger and frustration with academics on those who are trying to love and support you. ? MerryAtHope just provided some lovely wisdom and ideas along these lines in post #9 of this recent thread.

Perhaps you and DD can start having a regular special time together that is NOT school, to love on each other and build a good supportive relationship with one another, and enjoy some special activity together for to make some good memories and for bonding together. ?

BEST of luck as you move into planning for high school! Warmest regards, Lori D.

ETA -- Just brainstorming here, and not meaning to knock you over with too many thoughts, or meaning to imply that all of these are ideas are on-target for your family -- you know your student and your goals/needs best! ? Use what works here in my post (if anything ? ), and forget about the rest. ?

Edited September 24, 2018 by Lori D.

[Clear Creek]

I have a 13yo who would spend all day on art if she had the time. This year (8th grade) she started using Acellus, which covers the bases but does not include any fluff. She hates (and pretty much refuses) to anything that she feels is busy work. After using Acellus for a semester, I feel that it is sufficent prep for community college. I add writing and literature to it, and she uses a different math. I also add Latin because she really enjoys it.

 

One of the major benefits to using a program like Acellus is that I am taken completely out of the equation. My daughter logs in, works until she has a star in each subject that day (the star shows that all of the work assigned has been completed), and I can log in on the parent side at any time and see what she has completed, what she is currently working on, if she is struggling with anything, and even if she is just randomly answering questions or guessing (the program flags it so the parent can see it).

[BiochemMom]

As a high school teacher (biology and chemistry) and a classical homeschooling Mom, here are my observations. Students generally only "buy in" to their education when they are challenged. They will act like you are killing them and then suddenly their class in biblical history (or whatever) gives them perspective and they suddenly start considering the bigger questions in life that involve meaning, purpose, beauty and truth. And suddenly THEY value what they are doing and value education for its own sake. No one can guarantee that a classical education will result in this in every kid. However, not exposing them to a challenging curriculum that explores the deepest questions of life will almost definetly result in failure, especially in an unmotivated kid. I have watched several student make this leap, including my own son. The harder and more meaningful the class, the more self respect that they gain from doing something that they know is hard. Allowing school (and life) to be too easy will just result in them thinking "less" of themselves and being more depressed and difficult (in general).

 

As far as outsourced classes, I highly recommend them at this level. The power struggle with a teen easily becomes too much and outsourcing can help resolve some issues. When your daughter is taking an outsourced class, you need to set paramaters so that she knows that she is accountable for her grade and then let HER take responsibility for meeting the criteria of the class. SHE is responsible for listening carefully to the teacher and following up with the teacher is she doesn't understand. As a teacher, one of my main goals is to encourage students to be proactive in seeking help, working with the teacher when something goes wrong etc. If students don't learn these skills, they will not be successful in higher education (or in many venues of "real life"). If your DD knows you are following behind to mop up behind her lazy habits, she will NOT step up to the plate.

[2ndGenHomeschooler]

Welcome to the "big kid" board. ;)

 

First, totally agree with kand and teachermom2834 about outsourcing. I teach Lit. & Writing classes at our homeschool co-op, and I can't tell you how many moms tell me: "She/he will write for you, but won't write for me." My own DSs gave a lot more effort to anyone other than me. sigh. So,another vote for outsourcing, if that is what it takes for a student to get it done.

 

 

Just a few other thoughts:

 

First, have you ruled out any possible learning/processing issues? Along about age 12, it becomes increasingly difficult for students with mild LDs to continue to barely hang on in their struggle areas or to "keep up". And many students "mask" their learning struggles with hostility and anger.

 

​I don't think she has any learning challenges. She learned to read quickly and easily and math has never been all that challenging either. She has beautiful handwriting. She can do the work I assign her easily - it's just a matter of getting her to do it. Last week she put off her writing assignment. I told her she couldn't ice skate with friends until it was done. She wrote the rough draft, edited, and wrote the final draft on the 30 minute drive plus a few minutes. It wasn't spectacular but not terrible either

 

Second: if DD is young, perhaps consider making next year a bonus year of middle school before starting high school to get solid in the LA (writing, grammar, spelling, and formal literature study/literary analysis) and the study skills? That could possibly make taking that step up into high school level of rigor easier, since she dislikes so many school subjects...

 

​She's not young for her grade in our state (cut off is Dec 31 and she has an early June birthday). I have considered doing this though. I initially thought of it as a possibility for my fall birthday DC but was keeping it as an option for all four if we need it. She has always seemed older socially. Partly because all of her friends are older than her by 1-5 years. She gets along with them really well most of the time although recently the older ones (who were late-bloomers) have matured a lot and started splitting off from the group some. I hadn't thought of adding a year recently but I'll add it to the list of options to discuss with DH.

 

And finally, just for your general high school planning, most colleges require a certain credits to have been completed in high school in order to eligible for college admission; for a majority of colleges that looks something like this:

 

4 credits = English

3-4 credits = Math (Alg. 1, Geometry, Alg. 2, plus a possible 4th math requiring Alg. 2 as a pre-requisite)

3-4 credits = Science, with labs (a few colleges want Biology and Chemistry, but most are very flexible)

3-4 credits = Social Studies (most colleges want 1 credit = Amer. Hist.; some also want 1 credit = World Hist/Geog or 0.5 credit each Econ & Gov't)

2-4 credits = Foreign Language (same language)

1 credit = Fine Arts

4-8+ credits = Electives (examples: Bible, Health, PE, Computer, Vocational-Tech, personal interest areas, additional Fine Arts, etc.)

22-28+ credits = total

 

One credit = a one year course, done roughly 1 hour/day, 4-5 days/week. So doing 5-6 credits per year of high school will get a student through the required credits needed to keep open the door for possible future college.

 

Community colleges don't require completion of credits like this, BUT, they DO require students to take a placement/assessment test upon entry, to make sure the student has the needed minimum math, reading, and writing skills in order to take the classes the student wants to take. Students who do not have the minimum required skills must start with remedial courses first before moving in to the courses they are interested in. Completing the list of credits above prepares a student to place well on that entry assessment test, which means the student won't have to waste time with remedial courses first.

 

 

As far as getting DD's "buy in" for high school work:

You might try coming at this from possible end-result jobs, and working backwards with DD to see what education and training is required after high school for these different jobs, and then plan together what credits will be needed in high school in order to meet requirements to get that post-high school education or training.

 

For example, together, you and DD might try starting some career exploration every other Friday afternoon as a fun way to finish up the school week. Have DD do some interest inventory tests, or just explore on career websites. For example, from the US Bureau of Labor's Occupational Outlook Handbook website, here are some Arts and Design occupations. Clicking on each will pull up more detailed info about the job, the pay, the outlook (how many jobs are projected for the future, and is it a growing, flat, or dying job area), and esp: what does it take to become one. From there, you can look at universities and community colleges near you and see what requirements they have for getting in to their programs.

 

Also explore jobs that are available with only a high school diploma. That can be eye-opening for a student -- either that there are some things they *would* be interested in that are on-the-job training, OR, that the job market can be very limited with only a high school diploma, depending on what the student is interested in doing as a career. That can help make high school more relevant -- using the time to heavily prep for real life if not going to college (so, personal finance and life skills focus), or seeing that those required credits for college prep really are going to be needed to jump the hoop to get to the training/education for the desired job.

 

​I tried this about a year ago and it did not go well. She just said that she didn't want to get a job, go to college, or get even get married and have kids of her own. She wants to be done with school and then stay home and do whatever she feels like all day. We informed her that this was not an option and dropped the subject. Maybe I should try again. Being a year older and having older friends might have changed her perspective. I like those career exploration ideas too. It's very possible that she just doesn't know what her options are. 

 

 

You might also look in to doing some of your credits more creatively. For example, for science, since DD hates science but loves to read, you might look at one of these literature-based science courses:

 

- Story of Science (Joy Hakim) -- 1 year program; integrated science; no labs (but you could add some)

- Integrated Physics & Chemistry (John Tiner) -- 2 year program; no labs (but you could add them)

- Guest Hollow's High School Chemistry in the Kitchen -- 1 year program; with labs

 

Or, consider going with non-traditional science topics (so, NOT Biology, Chemistry, Physics) that might be of interest to DD:

- Equine (Horse) Science

- Environmental Science

- Ecology

- Botany

- Horticulture (Gardening)

- Marine Biology

- Meteorology (Weather)

- Geology or Earth Science

- Astronomy

 

 

For Government, consider participating in a local mock legislative group like the YMCA's Youth & Gov't program for actual hands-on. Before chucking that idea out the window, let me say that NEITHER of my DSs were or are the least bit interested in politics, law, being lawyers, etc. But they LOVED being a part of this group, and asked to return each year. I was the advisor for 3 years, and of all the students in our delegation over that time, not one has gone into law or politics -- everyone went in to very different unrelated fields -- but they are very much enjoyed writing their own bills, debating, etc. (And none of the students in our delegation were "into" speech & debate, either. ;) ) You might look at Teen Pact, a less intensive, Christian version of mock legislation as a way of much less painfully getting part of your Government credit checked off. ;)

 

 

For History, can you do it with another family or two, so your DD has peer support/pressure to get it done? And it do some hands-on projects together as part of the credit?

 

​These are all great ideas. I'm willing to go the non-traditional route if it works better for her. It's a little overwhelming but that seems to be the theme of the teen years in my limited experience.  :tongue_smilie: 

 

 

I know the early teen years can be so hormonal and emotional, but perhaps at a non-school time you and DD can talk about growing up, thinking of others, and "doing hard things" -- like not taking out anger and frustration with academics on those who are trying to love and support you. ;) MerryAtHope just provided some lovely wisdom and ideas along these lines in post #9 of this recent thread.

 

Perhaps you and DD can start having a regular special time together that is NOT school, to love on each other and build a good supportive relationship with one another, and enjoy some special activity together for to make some good memories and for bonding together. :)

 

BEST of luck as you move into planning for high school! Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

 

ETA -- Just brainstorming here, and not meaning to knock you over with too many thoughts, or meaning to imply that all of these are ideas are on-target for your family -- you know your student and your goals/needs best! :) Use what works here in my post (if anything ;) ), and forget about the rest. :)

 

​Thank you so much! This gave me a lot to think about!

 

[2ndGenHomeschooler]

As a high school teacher (biology and chemistry) and a classical homeschooling Mom, here are my observations. Students generally only "buy in" to their education when they are challenged. They will act like you are killing them and then suddenly their class in biblical history (or whatever) gives them perspective and they suddenly start considering the bigger questions in life that involve meaning, purpose, beauty and truth. And suddenly THEY value what they are doing and value education for its own sake. No one can guarantee that a classical education will result in this in every kid. However, not exposing them to a challenging curriculum that explores the deepest questions of life will almost definetly result in failure, especially in an unmotivated kid. I have watched several student make this leap, including my own son. The harder and more meaningful the class, the more self respect that they gain from doing something that they know is hard. Allowing school (and life) to be too easy will just result in them thinking "less" of themselves and being more depressed and difficult (in general).

 

As far as outsourced classes, I highly recommend them at this level. The power struggle with a teen easily becomes too much and outsourcing can help resolve some issues. When your daughter is taking an outsourced class, you need to set paramaters so that she knows that she is accountable for her grade and then let HER take responsibility for meeting the criteria of the class. SHE is responsible for listening carefully to the teacher and following up with the teacher is she doesn't understand. As a teacher, one of my main goals is to encourage students to be proactive in seeking help, working with the teacher when something goes wrong etc. If students don't learn these skills, they will not be successful in higher education (or in many venues of "real life"). If your DD knows you are following behind to mop up behind her lazy habits, she will NOT step up to the plate.

Thank you so much for this! This might be where we're at. I need to "do hard things" myself. Sometimes I think I'm almost afraid of the resistance so I back down just because of that. It's not good for her to not challenge or push her at least some of the time. 

 

I'll be looking into outsourcing. Any time I've looked at classes I've crossed them off the list due to cost. We have a pretty small school budget for the four DC but it might be time to look at ways to increase the budget to make room for other options. 

[Tsuga]

This sounds so much like my 9th grader! Thank you for sharing. I've been waffling because I get so much complaining like you say in the second paragraph when she does out-sourced classes, yet she cares how she does in them, and does actually do the work. For me, I just can't get her to care one bit. It's difficult though, because I have to do so much hand-holding for these out-sourced classes, and sometimes *I* don't understand what the teacher is wanting her to do, so not only do I kind of see where she's coming from, but then it's hard to even help her. And then I also get the bad attitude turned on me, while I'm trying to help her. OH, this age....

 

Thank you for the encouragement, though.

Considering how much of life is dealing with unreasonable systems and people and making incremental changes while meeting expectations, I would consider that a plus of an outside class.

 

Not to say she must be outside schooled, but I would not avoid outside classes just because they are realistically idiosyncratic.

 

Also--at thirteen if she doesn't get it, she should practice dealing with that herself without you. There are times for parental support but they should be few and far between at that age and not be content based. Content based questions can go to the teacher by email.

[Lori D.]

From all your added info, it sounds like you're not looking at any previously undiagnosed LDs or Stealth Dyslexia or other issue. Yea! And it doesn't sound like adding a bonus year fits well for her age and maturity level. It sounds like you are probably just in for a continued struggle with the attitude. Ug. Based on your additional info, I really like BiochemMom's thoughts -- that more challenging work, outsourcing, and the student taking on responsibility might be the way to go.

Handing over ownership as much as possible to DD allows you to be in the supportive encourager role, rather than "be the "nag".

reflective listening that is supportive of how she's feeling:
- "I can hear how upset you are about this."
- "Gee, that sounds frustrating."
- "Wow, that must be challenging."
- "You sound very excited about this. That's great!"
- "Sounds like you're doing an awesome job!"

encouragement that keeps her in charge:
- "How were you thinking of taking care of that?"
- "Did you have some ideas for how to get this done?"
- "Interesting! I'm looking forward to hearing how you tackle this!"
- "Cool! Thanks for sharing about what you're doing for that project."

supportive guidance available if she chooses to use it:
- "Let me know if there's something I can do to help out."
- "Great work! If you feel like you would like an extra pair of eyes on that, I'd be happy to look it over tonight."
- "How do you suggest we schedule this? Here are deadlines that the rest of the family has, so we don't run into time conflicts."
 

On 1/4/2018 at 3:28 PM, 2ndgenhomeschooler said:

​I tried this about a year ago and it did not go well. She just said that she didn't want to get a job, go to college, or get even get married and have kids of her own. She wants to be done with school and then stay home and do whatever she feels like all day. We informed her that this was not an option and dropped the subject...

 

Lol. I have one who said those types of things at that age. Responding with humor seems to keep it light, while also gently making it clear that's not realistic:

 

"ha-ha! That's great! I'll move in with you then, so I can do whatever I feel like all day, too!"

"Sounds great! If anyone can come up with a job that let's you do whatever you want all day, I'll bet it will be you!"
 

A book that might be helpful (for YOUR sanity, lol): You Can't Make Me—But I Can Be Persuaded (Tobias) -- strategies for raising a strong-willed child. BEST of luck! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited September 24, 2018 by Lori D.

[Susie in CA]

reflective listening that is supportive of how she's feeling:

- "I can hear how upset you are about this."

- "Gee, that sounds frustrating."

- "Wow, that must be challenging."

- "You sound very excited about this. That's great!"

- "Sounds like you're doing an awesome job!"

 

encouragement that keeps her in charge:

- "How were you thinking of taking care of that?"

- "Did you have some ideas for how to get this done?"

- "Interesting! I'm looking forward to hearing how you tackle this!"

- "Cool! Thanks for sharing about what you're doing for that project."

 

supportive guidance available if she chooses to use it:

- "Let me know if there's something I can do to help out."

- "Great work! If you feel like you would like an extra pair of eyes on that, I'd be happy to look it over tonight."

- "How do you suggest we schedule this? Here are deadlines that the rest of the family has, so we don't run into time conflicts."

 

 

Thank you Lori D. for the above phrases! I MUST practice these more. :-)

[Hunter]

It was back around Y2K, and things are different now, but I let my 8th grader skip 8th grade and enroll in American School's easier GENERAL diploma program a year early.

https://www.americanschoolofcorr.com

 

The general program can be easily completed in 3 years. This allows the student to graduate 2 years early. Okay, the course was easy, but it is finished 2 years ahead of schedule, and the accredited diploma allows an underage student to apply for freshman status and financial aid at a community college.

 

My reluctant teen liked working and was easily able to juggle AS and work. When graduation got closer, HE wanted to start at the local college and started busting his butt to supplement the AS work in a few key places, with no nagging from me. Being out in the work force did him a lot of good, and changed his attitude.

 

At 16, he started putting himself through the college with the help of financial aid. A less rigorous high school experience and a chance to enter the work force early did not hurt him, but rather helped him.

 

To skip 8th grade and start AS a year early, just write "Homeschooled N/A" when asked to supply proof of 8th grade graduation.

Edited January 7, 2018 by Hunter