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? About inclusive language use in French (research) essay


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#1 loesje22000

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Posted 30 December 2017 - 07:20 AM

Dd attends March 21st the 12th grade exam French written (B1/B2 level)
For the exam she has to upload a small research essay in French that will be questioned on the exam itself.

Dd and DH are discussing the French use of inclusive language, but we don’t know what the French custom in this is, nor we can find solid information about it.

DH prefers the consequent use of il or il/elle.
DD thinks il is excluding and considers il/elle as not readable, so she switched from il to elle and vice versa.
DH thinks that is against the rules but is not able to find any rules in these...

Does anyone knows how the French of France deal with this???

Thanks in advance!!!!!!!
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#2 Sandwalker

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Posted 30 December 2017 - 07:29 AM

http://www.academie-...nt-de-lacademie

The position of the Académie on gender neutral pronouns is that French has no masculine, only a neutral and a feminine, and that therefore all neutrality must be expressed by the lack of feminine marker. Which in effect boils down to calling every gender-neutral person "he" even though everyone will assume male and nobody will get the "gender neutrality" aspect.

I would use 'il'.

Edited by Sandwalker, 30 December 2017 - 07:31 AM.

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#3 Monica_in_Switzerland

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Posted 30 December 2017 - 07:42 AM

I agree, stick to "il".  

 

Whatever you do, do NOT switch back and forth, that's a grammatical error.  There is no way to correctly use il/elle due to agreement issues with adjectives.  You can't constantly be doing something like il/elle eat grand(e).  It would be incredibly distracting.  I've only seen language like that on legal type contracts.  


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#4 Monica_in_Switzerland

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Posted 30 December 2017 - 07:43 AM

I agree, stick to "il".  

 

Whatever you do, do NOT switch back and forth, that's a grammatical error.  There is no way to correctly use il/elle due to agreement issues with adjectives.  You can't constantly be doing something like il/elle eat grand(e).  It would be incredibly distracting.  I've only seen language like that on legal type contracts.  

 

 

ETA:  If she doesn't have an essay topic, I'll bet examining gender neutral language in other countries would be a fascinating topic.  :-D  


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#5 loesje22000

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Posted 30 December 2017 - 07:43 AM

http://www.academie-...nt-de-lacademie

The position of the Académie on gender neutral pronouns is that French has no masculine, only a neutral and a feminine, and that therefore all neutrality must be expressed by the lack of feminine marker. Which in effect boils down to calling every gender-neutral person "he" even though everyone will assume male and nobody will get the "gender neutrality" aspect.

I would use 'il'.


Thanks!!!!
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#6 loesje22000

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Posted 30 December 2017 - 07:44 AM

I agree, stick to "il".

Whatever you do, do NOT switch back and forth, that's a grammatical error. There is no way to correctly use il/elle due to agreement issues with adjectives. You can't constantly be doing something like il/elle eat grand(e). It would be incredibly distracting. I've only seen language like that on legal type contracts.


Thanks!!!!

#7 loesje22000

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Posted 30 December 2017 - 07:52 AM

ETA: If she doesn't have an essay topic, I'll bet examining gender neutral language in other countries would be a fascinating topic. :-D


We will remember that! :)

The essay had to be related to the ERK / CERF system.
She had to interview at least four persons in French for whom French is a foreign language and had to indicate their CERF level using the grid.
Then she also had to do a (very) small research about language acquisition.
She had to pick from the four skills: reading, listening, speaking, writing.

If she has passed the exam I can post her essay.
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#8 Monica_in_Switzerland

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Posted 30 December 2017 - 08:02 AM

We will remember that! :)

The essay had to be related to the ERK / CERF system.
She had to interview at least four persons in French for whom French is a foreign language and had to indicate their CERF level using the grid.
Then she also had to do a (very) small research about language acquisition.
She had to pick from the four skills: reading, listening, speaking, writing.

If she has passed the exam I can post her essay.

 

Best of luck!  That sounds like a tough exam!


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#9 loesje22000

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Posted 30 December 2017 - 08:38 AM

Best of luck! That sounds like a tough exam!

Thank you!
It used to be easier, but they changed the requirement for 2018 exams.
It is tough beceause she is in the languages track, other tracks don’t have this essay requirement for french but have to wright essays for other subjects.
DD has to write a research essay for Latin (Julian-Claudic Dynastie) French (CERF) and History (Modern Era)
These are not as huge as I see in WTM, but it is a good starting point :)
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#10 Joan in GE

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Posted 30 December 2017 - 08:39 AM

http://www.academie-...nt-de-lacademie

The position of the Académie on gender neutral pronouns is that French has no masculine, only a neutral and a feminine, and that therefore all neutrality must be expressed by the lack of feminine marker. Which in effect boils down to calling every gender-neutral person "he" even though everyone will assume male and nobody will get the "gender neutrality" aspect.

I would use 'il'.

 

I agree this would definitely be best and in addition the most simple as well as probably correct in your country looseje.

 

But even in France, I don't think the school system is obliged to follow the Academie. Hatier produced the first school manuel with 'écriture inclusive'.  And where I am, the local university doesn't even accept the 1990 spelling changes that the Academy put out though they are accepted in the public school system obligatory level. As far as I know, those spelling changes are optional even in France.

 

I agree with Monica too, that it's important to stick to one method.

 

Isn't it possible to ask the exam center itself what they are expecting?


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#11 loesje22000

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Posted 30 December 2017 - 08:48 AM

http://www.academie-...nt-de-lacademie

The position of the Académie on gender neutral pronouns is that French has no masculine, only a neutral and a feminine, and that therefore all neutrality must be expressed by the lack of feminine marker. Which in effect boils down to calling every gender-neutral person "he" even though everyone will assume male and nobody will get the "gender neutrality" aspect.

I would use 'il'.


Is this article from the same site but more recent:
http://www.academie-...-dite-inclusive

Confirming your first one?

#12 loesje22000

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Posted 30 December 2017 - 08:56 AM

I agree this would definitely be best and in addition the most simple as well as probably correct in your country looseje.

But even in France, I don't think the school system is obliged to follow the Academie. Hatier produced the first school manuel with 'écriture inclusive'. And where I am, the local university doesn't even accept the 1990 spelling changes that the Academy put out though they are accepted in the public school system obligatory level. As far as I know, those spelling changes are optional even in France.

I agree with Monica too, that it's important to stick to one method.

Isn't it possible to ask the exam center itself what they are expecting?


Thank you!
Good to realise!

I will send a mail (again)...
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#13 Sandwalker

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Posted 30 December 2017 - 01:20 PM

Is this article from the same site but more recent:
http://www.academie-...-dite-inclusive

Confirming your first one?

Yes, it looks like they are saying that it would be too difficult for the reader if Il/elle were used, or switching back and forth, so they want to keep 'il'. My French comprehension sadly isn't what it used to be, so maybe show that to your daughter. Best of luck to her.
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#14 Joan in GE

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Posted 30 December 2017 - 02:51 PM

Is this article from the same site but more recent:
http://www.academie-...-dite-inclusive

Confirming your first one?

 

This happened after the Weinburg affairs came to light and there are the ensuing attempts at changes.

 

My comments might be outdated as here's another article about use in schools that came along since I was studying about it. 

 

But just for anyone who doesn't know, écriture inclusive isn't exactly the same as the féminisation de métiers for example.

 

http://www.sudouest....856018-4699.php

 

A pro article

http://www.huffingto...fem_a_21658194/


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