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[alisoncooks]

...

 

Thanks for the feedback.

Edited July 27, 2022 by alisoncooks

[skimomma]

Are you close with your niece?  If you are very close and willing to forgo traditional holiday festivities during those two days, she might find your presence a comforting distraction.  If not, then I would most definitely find a different way to celebrate with MIL or skip it altogether this year.  

[Carol in Cal.]

I think that a distraction might be good.  So unless I heard otherwise, my inclination would be to go.

[alisoncooks]

.... 

 

Edited December 19, 2017 by alisoncooks

[Rosie_0801]

She's probably going to feel an obligation to give her son a decent Christmas, and the more that obligation is spread around, the less of that burden falls on her.

[alisoncooks]

.

 

Edited July 27, 2022 by alisoncooks

[Rachel]

I personally would not want others there but people grieve differently. I think niece’s wishes trump MIL’s in this instance. MIL may be in denial or shock at the moment.

 

If you decide to go, I’d have a backup plan just in case the niece thinks she wants people there and then changes her mind.

[Hilltopmom]

I might still go if niece wishes, but I’d stay at a hotel, not in her home where she may need to have some space.

[underthebridge]

So sorry about this tragedy. I think you have to wait and try to ascertain whether this would add or relieve the niece’s burden. One option could be that you stay at a hotel so you can limit your visiting time. Are you bringing any children of your own? Perhaps MIL thinks having you there will make it easier for the young boy? What a terrible thing to happen.

[Element]

Before I was born, my relative lost a baby in early December and then had to attend a company holiday party the following weekend with her dh. It has been 40 years and she still talks about how absurd, uncomfortable, and miserable the situation was. I would try to give her space unless she specifically asks for family or is a known extrovert who heals best around people (and you are her people.) 

[Ausmumof3]

I think in the immediate aftermath it can be very helpful to have someone around who will be there to sit with you and your grief and help with the practicalities. Particularly if there's another child. I probably wouldn't stay with them because of the increased workload but if you can stay close by and be there for them, that would be so important at this time.

[happypamama]

I’m so, so sorry. Such a horrible tragedy.

 

I think it really needs to be up to your niece. Everyone grieves a little differently. Some people want to be surrounded by family and friends because that helps them feel loved and supported, and other people want to be alone. It really depends on your niece and whether she’ll find silence comforting or deafening, y’know?

 

Can you and your family keep it together? When our baby died, I could barely handle my grief and my children’s/DH’s grief. I absolutely did not have the ability to handle anyone else’s, no matter how much they loved our baby too. If you go, you need to be able to keep ahold of your emotions, and you need to read the situation and match the tone. You need to know that she may stay out of the room or leave the room at any time, because something might be too painful, and you need to allow her that. I absolutely needed to retreat and stay out of public for a while. She is likely in some shock right now and may not know how she’s going to feel.

 

If you do go, don’t ask her how she’s doing. She’s doing terribly — her baby just died right before Christmas. If you can handle it, you can ask her if she wants to talk or show pictures of the baby or anything. You can tell her you’re sorry and that you love her and just hug her and be willing to let her cry.

[Daria]

We lost my father to cancer at about this time of year, and relatives flew in from out of town.  Before they left, they put up the tree, and baked a few cookies and did some things that brought normalcy to the house.  These are relatives that have never lived close by, so people I hadn't met for more than a few times, but it still meant a lot to have them there. 

 

Not that losing an adult, even one who was way to young to die, is anything like losing your child.  

 

I think the idea of staying a hotel, and being very clear to follow you niece's lead is a good one.

 

Also, while obviously this is a greater tragedy for niece than anyone else, it's got to be incredibly hard for MIL.  Having someone there who can support her while she grieves, given that she's probably the one carrying the burden of supporting this young mother, and picking up the slack with a confused grieving preschooler, might be helpful.  

[skimomma]

The additional info of another child is a factor.  I am going through this with very close friends right now.  They also have another child and have leaned very heavily on friends to help make things "normal" for their older child.  If staying at a hotel is possible and you are comfortable doing holiday things with the older child and MIL to create some normalcy, that might be a great help to the mother.  Everyone grieves differently.   If there is any way to ask the mother what she wants privately, I would do so.  At the very least, since you are not very close, I would try to stay somewhere other than the house to allow for privacy when needed.

[happypamama]

Ah. With another child in the house, it is trickier. I appreciate everyone who pitched in to give our kids any semblance of a normal Christmas last year. Maybe your presence will be comforting for her living child. Just know that she herself might not want to participate in festivities.

[Guest]

Before I was born, my relative lost a baby in early December and then had to attend a company holiday party the following weekend with her dh. It has been 40 years and she still talks about how absurd, uncomfortable, and miserable the situation was. I would try to give her space unless she specifically asks for family or is a known extrovert who heals best around people (and you are her people.)

When I lost my baby, it was not even anywhere near Christmas; it was May. But we hosted the Christmas dinner and I still think to myself, “That was the most absurd thing we could ever have agreed to do.†It was absolute misery for me. There were also two new babies in the family and it was so horrible to miss my baby and pretend to be normal and HOST a dang party. We were living in a brand-new house and so we were sort of nominated to host because everyone wanted to look at our house. But I didn’t have the wherewithall to say, “No way, man! This is sure to be a hard Christmas for us.â€

 

I still think about that every year. I don’t know why nobody said, “maybe they aren’t the best candidates to host this year.â€

 

To the OP: if it were me, I would not want company as expected. If I were to attend, I would beg off. I would plead with MIL to please, please, please just postpone it a month or skip it and do it next year.

[happypamama]

When I lost my baby, it was not even anywhere near Christmas; it was May. But we hosted the Christmas dinner and I still think to myself, “That was the most absurd thing we could ever have agreed to do.†It was absolute misery for me. There were also two new babies in the family and it was so horrible to miss my baby and pretend to be normal and HOST a dang party. We were living in a brand-new house and so we were sort of nominated to host because everyone wanted to look at our house. But I didn’t have the wherewithall to say, “No way, man! This is sure to be a hard Christmas for us.â€

 

I still think about that every year. I don’t know why nobody said, “maybe they aren’t the best candidates to host this year.â€

 

To the OP: if it were me, I would not want company as expected. If I were to attend, I would beg off. I would plead with MIL to please, please, please just postpone it a month or skip it and do it next year.

(((Quill))) — It must have been so hard to host, especially with other babies around. :(. People probably didn’t “want to remind you†of your loss — as if you were thinking about anything else at all.

[alisoncooks]

...

Edited December 19, 2017 by alisoncooks

[Annie G]

Since you're staying at a hotel I would vote to go. You'll be at the hotel at night, giving niece some time alone to work through her emotions. But being there during the day might be helpful for her...your girls can play with her son.  I'm assuming she's going to be planning a funeral and maybe she needs some support through that process. 

[Rachel]

OP since you are staying in a hotel, I think going is a good plan. You can be supportive without being in the way. The 5 year old will enjoy having other kids to play with.

[KungFuPanda]

I’m the odd one out here. That seems way too soon. I can’t imagine wanting to cope with extended relatives. I’d postpone at least a month.

[Guinevere]

I think you should send a message to your neice, text or email. Tell her how sorry you are, and how you want to be what she needs. Tell her you are coming, but will stay at a hotel, and have zero expectations about what she will or won't do, and that you understand that she might not know herself what is best from moment to moment. Indicate focus on her needs, and on your flexibility. I'd also suggest a few options, like can you take mil out for an afternoon? It would allow you to support your mil who is grieving, too, and give your neice a little space. It would also allow your kids to have some more normal time with grandma.

[Rosie_0801]

I’m the odd one out here. That seems way too soon. I can’t imagine wanting to cope with extended relatives. I’d postpone at least a month.

 

I'd want people to come and do Christmas with my kid so I could hide in my room, not having to do it myself.

 

And I say that as a non-communal griever who is only going to get out of bed this Christmas because my brother is bribing me with food.

[Alice]

I think you could be helpful if you go, especially if you stay in a hotel. You could help with the son. It also sounds like MIL is expecting Christmas as usual and I can’t imagine the niece having to deal with that alone if you aren’t there...not sure if there are other family there. If you are there dealing with MIL and helping with the young son that could be a very loving way of helping your niece in a practical way. 

 

It’s hard to know what people want who are grieving because everyone is so different. I think it’s good to ask niece, if you can. But she might not say what she really wants or she might not even know what she really wants. Part of helping might be going and then being open to doing what seems to be best when you are there. A fault of mine is that I tend to give people space when people are grieving because I think that is what I would want...but I’ve learned that other people don’t always want that. 

[Sandwalker]

We are not especially close. Knowing her, I do not think she would be comfortable grieving as she otherwise would if we were around.

Then I would not go.

[happypamama]

Another thought: if you don’t go, and MIL is disappointed about that, then niece also has to deal with MIL’s feelings and will possibly feel guilty about that. She certainly doesn’t need that. I think since you would stay in a hotel, that it would be okay. And like Rosie said, you can do Christmas for her living child so she can hide if she wants without feeling guilty.

 

I think it’s just so hard to know what she really wants. She might not know. And she might feel mixed feelings because none of it is REALLY what she wants. What she really wants can’t happen, so everything else is a matter of figuring out what she can handle with the least amount of negative feelings.

[Guest]

I'd want people to come and do Christmas with my kid so I could hide in my room, not having to do it myself.

 

And I say that as a non-communal griever who is only going to get out of bed this Christmas because my brother is bribing me with food.

Non-communal griever - what a great word.

 

Many hugs to you, Rosie.

[Alessandra]

I am sorry for your family's loss. I think you should plan so that you can be flexible, go, not go. A lot can happen in a week.

[wintermom]

Such a devastating situation for your niece and mil. Hugs to all.  Since this is all so new, and the investigation in the death is taking days, I would wait until Thursday to make a final decision. A lot of things might happen in these next few days that change the circumstances. It may end up that only part of your family goes, or you shorten the visit. Obviously, this is never going to be a time of "going on as usual." It just isn't; though trying to bring some normal activities to the situation will probably be helpful. Everyone is going to have to be flexible, understanding and ready to adjust plans at the last minute.

Edited December 17, 2017 by wintermom

[catz]

MIL must really be grieving too of course.  What a heart breaking situation.  Since you aren't staying there, I would probably go and just do what I could with no expectations for what would happen and warn the kids that it may be sad.  Does the niece have a DH/SO in the picture?  It might really be nice to have a distraction and a place to land for the 4 year old for a couple days.  Life doesn't stop for little ones like that and that alone might be a huge help. 

 

Of course if the niece said please don't come, I would honor that and I would allow them to change their mind at the last minute too.  But having you there to tend to MIL and 4 year old may actually give the niece some space.

[Elizabeth86]

We're going to give her a day or two before we ask her about it.

She does have a son (4 or 5 years old), so I bet they'll still do some sort of Christmas for him.

 

Who knows, she may want to keep things normal for him. I'm just worried that she'll be feeling pressure from MIL, and I'd hate to be causing more grief.

 

ETA: Please delete quote. Thanks. :)

Well since there is another small kid I do agree the show must on for him.

[Guest]

I’m curious about this, though. Those of you saying the show must go on for the other child, I don’t understand this entirely. The child lost a sibling. The baby was there, and alive, and now the baby is gone, and everyone is very sad. I’m not understanding the idea that the little one is just going about everything as usual.

 

When our baby died, there were ways in which I wanted stability implemented for my two living children. We were moving into a new house, for example, and, thank God for volunteers, my mission was to set their bedrooms up immediately so their rooms would not be one more chaotic thing in the midst of total choas. But, also, it’s not as though life just went on normally for the other two. We were getting a baby, but then the baby never came home. And of course, they saw a lot of weeping and mom and dad not okay and they went to a funeral. None of this was normal.

 

IOW, I do think it would be nice for the other child to still have markers of Christmas that he has experienced before, as an anchor in the midst of a storm. But I also don’t think it is necessary, or even desirable, to sort of act as if nothing happened for the living child.

[Guest]

dp.

Edited December 17, 2017 by Quill

[3 ladybugs]

It sounds like MIL needs the show to go on. Maybe it is her way of grieving... or more then likely not grieving as the case may be. 

 

I disagree with the child making things different. The child just lost their sibling. A 4-5 year old is going to remember their sibling dying. Christmas is ALWAYS going to be different for that child. You can't shelter a child from it, nor should you IMHO. 

 

I have lost 3 children. My oldest survived 5 months 5 days and died right after Christmas on January 5 (2007). Personally, I wouldn't be able to entertain that quickly. I would HATE the well meaning looks of concern or feeling sorry for, that people would give me. This is why my children didn't have a funeral. It was too hard for me to deal with. 

 

If I were that mom, I would like the idea of postponing everything a month. If that is an option I would make sure she knows that. 

 

I am sorry your family is going through this. My cousin had something like that happen with her nearly 3 year old a couple of years ago. They never did find a cause of death. To me that is worst, not knowing what happened. I hope your family has answers at the end of the day. 

[wintermom]

But, also, it’s not as though life just went on normally for the other two. We were getting a baby, but then the baby never came home. And of course, they saw a lot of weeping and mom and dad not okay and they went to a funeral. None of this was normal.

 

IOW, I do think it would be nice for the other child to still have markers of Christmas that he has experienced before, as an anchor in the midst of a storm. But I also don’t think it is necessary, or even desirable, to sort of act as if nothing happened for the living child.

 

I totally agree. Every child is different, and will grieve differently. The child will probably benefit from some extra attention and kindness from family and friends he knows and feels comfortable with. My dc really appreciated some extra attention from family and friends when we lost our baby, but they were also feeling very sad and there was an emptiness in their lives. They needed time to process their loss, too.

[catz]

I’m curious about this, though. Those of you saying the show must go on for the other child, I don’t understand this entirely. The child lost a sibling. The baby was there, and alive, and now the baby is gone, and everyone is very sad. I’m not understanding the idea that the little one is just going about everything as usual.

 

 

 Oh - I didn't mean it this way at all.  I just meant a 4 year old is still going to need to eat and want to play and have lots of energy and may be excited about Santa and grieve differently than his mother in spurts.  But absolutely, children grieve and I actually thinks it's good for children to be with others processing grief.  I just meant it like Rosie said.  It might give the niece some breathing room, for a few hours on a couple days.  Some young kids are so empathetic to their mothers too.  Even not to have to be dealing with the MIL's feelings and grief for a while might be a positive for the niece even if she wanted to keep her little one close. 

 

ETA - I was also wondering if being in town during the funeral might be slightly better timing? 

Edited December 17, 2017 by WoolySocks

[Alice]

 Oh - I didn't mean it this way at all.  I just meant a 4 year old is still going to need to eat and want to play and have lots of energy and may be excited about Santa and grieve differently than his mother in spurts.  But absolutely, children grieve and I actually thinks it's good for children to be with others processing grief.  I just meant it like Rosie said.  It might give the niece some breathing room, for a few hours on a couple days.  Some young kids are so empathetic to their mothers too.  Even not to have to be dealing with the MIL's feelings and grief for a while might be a positive for the niece even if she wanted to keep her little one close. 

 

ETA - I was also wondering if being in town during the funeral might be slightly better timing? 

 

 

Yes. This is what I meant. 

[busymama7]

I really appreciated others taking care of my older kids when we lost our baby. They were 2,4 6 and 7 at the time. They did grieve. A lot. And still do (it's been 13 years). But mostly they were kids and the amount of care they needed was simply not possible for me for many months. They were almost feral there for a time. Lots of TV and feeding themselves. I'm not proud of that but it is the reality. Those early weeks when there were others available to care for them and take them to the park and such was so wonderful. Hopefully you can get an idea from your niece what she wants. I needed people around but also a place to escape to. Luckily I was given both early on. The months that followed were harder in many ways.

Edited December 17, 2017 by busymama7

[Rosie_0801]

I’m curious about this, though. Those of you saying the show must go on for the other child, I don’t understand this entirely. The child lost a sibling. The baby was there, and alive, and now the baby is gone, and everyone is very sad. I’m not understanding the idea that the little one is just going about everything as usual.

 

IOW, I do think it would be nice for the other child to still have markers of Christmas that he has experienced before, as an anchor in the midst of a storm. But I also don’t think it is necessary, or even desirable, to sort of act as if nothing happened for the living child.

 

Oh goodness, I didn't mean acting as though nothing happened. If I had people showing up who thought Christmas mania or baby-taboo was what we all needed, I'd grab my kid and run. I think MIL and small boy still need decorations, a calm paced present exchange, some fancier than usual food even if they don't want to eat and people to eat with and it's really not grieving mum's job to provide it.

[Ausmumof3]

I’m curious about this, though. Those of you saying the show must go on for the other child, I don’t understand this entirely. The child lost a sibling. The baby was there, and alive, and now the baby is gone, and everyone is very sad. I’m not understanding the idea that the little one is just going about everything as usual.

 

When our baby died, there were ways in which I wanted stability implemented for my two living children. We were moving into a new house, for example, and, thank God for volunteers, my mission was to set their bedrooms up immediately so their rooms would not be one more chaotic thing in the midst of total choas. But, also, it’s not as though life just went on normally for the other two. We were getting a baby, but then the baby never came home. And of course, they saw a lot of weeping and mom and dad not okay and they went to a funeral. None of this was normal.

 

IOW, I do think it would be nice for the other child to still have markers of Christmas that he has experienced before, as an anchor in the midst of a storm. But I also don’t think it is necessary, or even desirable, to sort of act as if nothing happened for the living child.

Coming from the perspective of a child who lost someone very close.

 

I did need that. Not because it made things normal or took away everything else. But because for an hour it let me be a kid again instead of dealing with all the heavy adult stuff. It showed me that eventually there was some kind of future beyond where we were right now. As adults we know this but as a child you don't. You feel like you will be trapped in this state of grief forever.

 

Of course it cannot be the adults who are very close to the situation and grieving who provide it though.

[Guest]

Oh goodness, I didn't mean acting as though nothing happened. If I had people showing up who thought Christmas mania or baby-taboo was what we all needed, I'd grab my kid and run. I think MIL and small boy still need decorations, a calm paced present exchange, some fancier than usual food even if they don't want to eat and people to eat with and it's really not grieving mum's job to provide it.

Yeah...thinking about this more, I think in my own situation (and realizing not all people need the same things after loss), I was afraid of disappointing others. I could not really grieve “properly†for me until everyone went away. I’m not that good at being not okay publically. When we were moving into our new house, three days after our baby’s death, I felt like the spotlight was on me, like people were looking at me to see how I would respond. It was the most unhealthy part of the dynamic.

 

The best thing that happened was that some people just did things without even mentioning a thing to me. They just addressed it without my knowledge. One of my SILs intercepted all the baby things that were supposed to go in the new baby’s bedroom. I am so grateful she did not ask me what to do; she just made a decision and figured I could deal with the baby things when I was ready to. My sisters made lunch for everyone. Good thing because I ate next to nothing for days. And sisters in law and one of their fathers put together the kids rooms into a pleasing arrangement and thankfully had the good sense to not ask me how to set up their rooms. I’m glad they just did it and did not ask, because I have this pitiful need to have my act together and I did not have my act together.

 

It sounds like you are less dysfunctional, lol, than I am and have granted yourself mercy that I have not granted myself.

[Rosie_0801]

:grouphug: 's Quill

[alisoncooks]

...

Edited December 26, 2017 by alisoncooks

[scholastica]

This sounds like an incredibly difficult situation. Prayers for all of you.

[happypamama]

It sounds like it was really good for you to go. It sounds like you were really helpful with her 4yo. Knowing that someone else was caring for my older children was a big gift for me.

 

Your whole family is in my prayers. Please encourage your niece to seek help for depression, especially since she’s still in the range for PPD. I hope she’s able to find some healthier ways to cope.

[wintermom]

Prayers and hugs to you all. Sounds like you are in the right place and doing a wonderful job helping others in this very difficult situation. So sorry you are all going through this. 

[alisoncooks]

...

Edited December 26, 2017 by alisoncooks

[Rachel]

I’m so sorry. It sounds like you did the right thing even though it was tough.