Best associates degree for early college and undecided career path?

[IfIOnly]

DS is starting early college next year and will be a HS sophmore. His career interests are all over the place, which is totally understandable at his age. He's also my least interested kid about college although a couple of his career interests require 4 or more years of studying. He may never do more than an associates though.

 

Are there strategies we should know about regarding what 2 yearish degree (10-12th grade to complete) to go with?

 

Thanks in advance.

[MerryAtHope]

Our local CC has a "Liberal Arts" Associate's degree for just this situation. It allows students to take classes from all of the liberal arts departments that they want to so that they can learn about different fields. It's specifically for students who plan to transfer to a 4-year school for finishing out their Bachelor's degree, and they have an automatic transfer agreement with over 100 schools, so it's a well-accepted program. So, you might find out if your CC has something like that, and find out the transferability of his work (our CC designates which courses are part of the transfer agreement so that there's no confusion.) At the very least, there are a lot of Gen-Ed classes he can work on now while he's thinking things through. I think the biggest thing is just understanding what your local CC offers and then how transferring tends to work out with 4-year schools--is it a smooth process, are some classes or majors easier to transfer than others--things like that. There's not necessarily a "universal" answer here--it's individualized to the school and your state. 

[YodaGirl]

I agree with what MerryatHope said.

 

Our local community college has a transfer degree path for students to earn their choice of an AS or AA.

[Lori D.]

Most community colleges offer two different types of 2-year (Associate) degrees, as well as a variety of 1-year certificates.

 

Transfer Degrees

These Associate degrees are for those who plan to continue on to a university and complete a 4-year degree, as this type of degree does NOT increase employability. They are called "transfer degrees" because the student starts at the community college (CC), takes 2 year of specific required "general education" (gen. ed.) credits, and then transfers to a 4-year university to complete the core concentration credits for 4-year degree:

 

- an AA (Associate of Arts) transfers for work on a Bachelor of Arts (BA) -- a 4-year degree in humanities, languages, fine arts, etc. 

- an AS (Associate of Science) transfers for work on a Bachelor of Science (BS) -- a 4-year degree in science, computer, engineering, medical, etc. 

 

Direct to Work Degrees

These are the AAS (Associate of Applied Science) degrees for those who plan to go directly into the work place upon completion. These are called "direct-to-work" degrees (as well as the 1-year certificates) as the vast majority of the credits required for these 2-year degrees are direct, hands-on courses in the vocational-technical field the student is interested in, and provide the needed training and education for going straight from earning the degree into the occupation. This type of degree DOES increase employability, but does not transfer well because so few of the credits are "gen. ed." credits towards a 4-year degree.

 

Examples of AAS degrees and occupations:

- technicians in medical areas: respiratory, radiology, sonogram, physical therapy, veterinarian, etc.

- jobs: CAD (Computer Aided Design), dental hygienist, accountant, paralegal, cosmetologist (hair stylist), massage therapy, interpretator for the Deaf, graphic designer, etc.

- trades: machinist, welder, mechanic, electrician, plumber, HVAC (heating/AC repair), etc.

- emergency services: police, fire, paramedic, etc.

 

 

If your student is undecided about earning a 4-year degree, and be more likely to do so by knocking out 2 years of the degree while still in high school, then a transfer degree IS the way to go, as the student would only have 2 more years of the core concentration to finish up at a school (with the exception of some highly core-concentrated degrees such as nursing, engineering, etc).

 

However, if your student is unlikely to continue at a university, but you would like to help your student increase employability at a higher wage than entry-level jobs, then transfer degrees are NOT the way to go. Definitely look in to working on an AAS degree instead, and see if your CC offers FREE tuition for vocational-tech courses that fulfill credit requirements towards an AAS degree. Our CC offers just such a program, and you can actually graduate 12th grade with also taking dual enrollment and earn an AAS at the same time, and be ready to go to work -- having earned most of that AAS degree for FREE! :)

 

Another benefit of a direct to work degree over a transfer degree if your student is not likely to go for a 4-year degree, or at least not right away, is that the AAS degree allows the student to immediately start working at a much higher pay scale than the entry-level jobs that would be what is open to a student who does a transfer degree, but doesn't continue on and complete the 4-year degree. 

 

 

While I totally agree with MerryAtHope about researching what your CC offers, I would not automatically assume your student should be heading towards a transfer degree (AA, AS, etc.). Instead, I would use this next year (10th grade) to:

 

- research your CC options

- do some career exploration to see if your DS sees something of interest to start moving towards

- do some extracurriculars and volunteering to "try out" things, or be exposed to possible career ideas through people met in those opportunities

- possibly try out some job shadowing, interning, or part time job to see what DS likes -- or definitely does NOT like

- if your student tests decently well, look into CLEP tests (which are credit by exam) and see if the future possible university accepts CLEPs towards a degree; that allows you to do your high school course, then study the CLEP booklet, take the test and get college credit for that subject -- another way of earning college credits in advance, and even more cheaply than dual enrollment at a CC (unless your CC has a free tuition for dual enrollment program)

 

And whatever "early college" courses your DS takes next year, make sure they will fulfill either an EITHER degree (AAS or an AA/AS degree) -- things like Writing 101 and 102, plus whatever basic math credit is required for either an , and whatever Social Science and/or Natural Science credits is required for either degree option, etc.

 

Remember, NOT all students know what they want to do in 9th grade. Or 12th grade. Or even halfway through college. Many, many students change their majors in college, sometimes more than once. And many students do better taking some time between high school and college to work and figure out what they do/don't want to do. All of that is okay! I know, I know -- We all want to smooth the path as much as possible for our students. :) But many of them need more time or need to take a more meandering path. So we just try and cover as many bases as possible, and then let our students fly in their own time. :)

 

I know, it's SUPER tough to plan for college/career while still in high school -- and still so early in high school. My last tip would be to just make sure to do a college prep set of credits while in high school, just to keep as many future options open as possible. That would look something like this:

 

4 credits = English

3-4 credits = Math (at least up through Algebra 2, and preferably up through Pre-Calculus OR dual-enrollment College Algebra)

3 credits = Science, with labs

2-3 credits = Social Science (at least 1 credit = American History)

2-4 credits = Foreign Language (same language -- a good option for dual enrollment! :) )

1 credit = Fine Arts

4-8+ credits = Electives (can be vocational-tech courses towards an Associate degree!)

 

 

BEST of luck as your plan for the future! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited December 16, 2017 by Lori D.

[bethben]

We are having ds go for a traditional AA degree.  He has a list of classes he can pick from.  There are a certain number of classes in different divisions - for example, he has to get 7 credits of science, one with a lab, 6 credits for english, and so forth.  They have emphasis tracks such as engineering or communications but we want him to get a good feeling for a bunch of different classes to see what interests him most.

[luuknam]

Transfer Degrees

These Associate degrees are for those who plan to continue on to a university and complete a 4-year degree, as this type of degree does NOT increase employability. 

 

 

Do you have a source for that? When I was looking into maybe getting a part-time job, I saw some ads that required an associate's degree (or just 60 college credits in general, to be honest) - they didn't care (at least in the ad) whether it was an a transfer one or an applied one. 

 

Btw, there are some schools that offer a BAAS for people who have an AAS so they can get a Bachelor's degree without too much extra work. Probably not the best option if you ever want to attend grad school, but something worth looking into if you think you want to go the Applied Associate's degree route. 

 

Anyway, as to what to get an associate's in... not having any clue about IfOnly's son's interests, I'd be inclined to suggest an AS (not AAS) in business. If you take the right courses, they should all transfer, and I'd take calculus for the math requirement and calculus-based physics and biology or something for the math and science requirements. Realistically, whether you end up working in the private or public sector, having a clue about economics, accounting, business/management is not a bad thing. So, even if after a couple of years he decides he wants to do, say, computer science, having that business background is still going to come in handy especially if he ever wants to be promoted to be a manager. High school tends to be very weak in economics, accounting, business law, management, and all that, so, I think it's a good choice (and could easily be a minor when going for a 4-year degree). If you want to make it a bit more employable with just a 2-year degree, maybe add a couple of AAS classes in business as well, like HR or something (you're going to be a human resource - it doesn't hurt to have a clue about how companies etc will deal with you), or, if it doesn't add significantly more time, make it a double AS/AAS.

 

If he does NOT want to do business, my second choice would be an AS in computer science, again maybe with some AAS classes tacked on if he does not want to continue to a 4-year just yet, and, with calculus, etc. It doesn't hurt to know some basic programming and web design, and if he continues on with a 4-year degree in science or w/e, knowing programming would be good too (heck, even a lot of non-STEM fields can benefit from programming - many, many years ago I read an article in SciAm about how some archeologists simulated why some native American civilization collapsed... that obviously used math and programming). Depending on the school, it will be easy to turn computer science into a minor at a 4-year as well. 

 

Anyway, ymmv, but for a kid who completely doesn't have a clue but who is likely to eventually end up at a 4-year, I'd encourage one or the other (or both, if it doesn't take too much extra time).

 

If it's likely the kid will major in a STEM field, it also wouldn't hurt to take all the math courses the CC offers - so, Calc 1 & 2, Multi Calc, Diff Eq, and Lin Alg. Statistics is a wash... it will transfer, and having a basic clue about statistics and probability is important, but for a STEM degree he'd need more advanced statistics and the Stat the CC offers would likely not count towards the degree (other than as a general elective). And, calculus-based physics 1&2, chem1&2, maybe bio1&2 and organic chem1&2 (depending on what he might major in), because prereq sequences for STEM degrees can be brutal, and make 2+2 impossible (even if you take all of the above, it might be 2+3, but if you want to major in say, biology, but you only took physics and bio, then the chem1, 2, organic chem 1, 2, sequence is going to be a huge delay (though summer classes do exist)). 

 

ETA: some CCs allegedly have lower standards than most 4-year schools for some of these courses, so, it wouldn't hurt to check with the local 4-year university what they think of people who completed x course at the local CC. If they tell you that kids coming from the CC have had a very inferior experience, it doesn't mean you *can't* take the class at the CC (assuming it transfers), but you'd want to do some extra studying on your own. Or, take it at the 4-year if that's unlikely to happen. Some CCs have exactly the same standards as the local university, possibly even with the same adjuncts, books, and tests, so, ymmv. 

Edited December 17, 2017 by luuknam

[luuknam]

Since I kind of overlooked that this is for 10th-12th grade, odds are CC statistics would be useful, unless, of course, he's already had a good high school level statistics & probability course. 

 

ETA: there are science courses that will meet the science requirement, but which aren't really part of prereq chains - e.g. astronomy. So, it can be a fun course to take, but if he later decides he wants to be an engineering, taking calculus-based physics 1 and 2 would be parts of a prereq chain (that quite possibly is a 4-year chain, as in, it will take 4 years to graduate from the moment you start physics 1), whereas you don't get delayed if you don't take astronomy. Of course, since this is for 10th-12th grade, it might not matter if things are part of a (long) prereq chain... just wanted to mention it. 

Edited December 17, 2017 by luuknam

[MarkT]

DS is starting early college next year and will be a HS sophmore. His career interests are all over the place, which is totally understandable at his age. He's also my least interested kid about college although a couple of his career interests require 4 or more years of studying. He may never do more than an associates though.

 

First of all try to see what interests he has versus any career programs that are available.

Also discuss any "natural skills" he may possess.

 

Maybe do some guidance counseling.  Do you have someone that can do that?

[Dmmetler]

Does he have to do an AA? We’ve gone back and forth between DD doing one and just taking classes that tick the high school boxes and let her explore interests. In state, it doesn’t seem like there is going to be any difference since she plans to apply to colleges as a freshman, and the articulation agreements are for each class, not just whole degrees, and it avoids having to commit to a path so early.

[YodaGirl]

Some employers require a 2 year degree. In those instances, a gen ed AA or AS (transfer degree) absolutely does increase employability. Having earned one myself, I speak from experience.

 

I can also vouch for the fact that an AAS degree isn't generally the way to go unless you're planning specifically to enter that career. I changed career plans at the last minute. Some of the classes (think Interpersonal Communications as opposed to Basic Public Speaking) that I took for my AAS degree didn't count towards my AA or my BA. Just make sure you take the one that counts for both. My advisor told me either would work, and that simply wasn't true.

 

Classes taken for an AA or AS can transfer (although, I do recommend looking into transfer requirements, especially when going across state lines or transferring to a private 4 yr college). Worst case, you benefit from having a 2 yr degree. I've seen it benefit people when employers specifically request it, and I've seen it help edge people out when two people are going for the same job even if a 2 yr degree isn't required.

 

Also consider whether or not you want your student to be eligible for incoming freshman scholarships. You can have a certain amount (up to 30, I think) and still be eligible. If that's a concern, you may want to consider the possibility of auditing classes.

[MerryAtHope]

 

While I totally agree with MerryAtHope about researching what your CC offers, I would not automatically assume your student should be heading towards a transfer degree (AA, AS, etc.). 

 

I agree that I wouldn't automatically assume it, but for a student who doesn't know what he wants to do (and who is considering many fields that might require 4 or more years as in the OP), an AA or AS offers a lot more flexibility than an AAS. I also think it's really hard to do an AAS if you don't know what you want to do--because each one is specialized for that field (there is some cross-over in classes between fields that are somewhat closely related--for example, a student could take a handful of courses that could apply to CNC work or welding or mechatronics before deciding which way to go--but huge differences in the broader category of all AAS options if the student hasn't narrowed their interests down very far.) Also, in terms of dual credit, an AA or AS tends to be more along the lines of "traditional" high school subjects (Math, Science, Social Studies, English, Foreign Language...), whereas an AAS has very few of those "gen-ed" type requirements. That doesn't mean it's not the way to go for some students, but I do think the student would need to have a more definite career goal in mind.

 

One thing I like about the AAS degree options though is that many provide some "stackable" options--students can get a "certificate" in a field to sort of "dip their toe in" to see if they like it. If they do, they have a foundation for an AAS degree in that field, and if they change their minds, they're not out too much time/money. So, there can be some good options depending on a student's interests. 

 

I still like the traditional AA/AS for a student who just doesn't know though, especially in states with good transfer agreements. It's one thing to decide later in life that you really want or need that 4-year degree and another to have to start from scratch versus having 2 years of it out of the way. But I suppose part of it is also my prejudice that a liberal arts education is never truly wasted, even if one changes gears later and goes into a trade!

 

Do you have a source for that? When I was looking into maybe getting a part-time job, I saw some ads that required an associate's degree (or just 60 college credits in general, to be honest) - they didn't care (at least in the ad) whether it was an a transfer one or an applied one. 

 

This is true by us as well--there are definitely jobs in our area where employers are looking for at least an AA/AS degree (and have higher starting wages to reflect that). They come to our local job fairs saying that they like to hire employees with at least a 2 year degree because the employees tend to be more focused and reliable and have shown that they can set a goal and achieve it. 

[Lori D.]

Some employers require a 2 year degree. In those instances, a gen ed AA or AS (transfer degree) absolutely does increase employability. Having earned one myself, I speak from experience...

 

...Classes taken for an AA or AS can transfer (although, I do recommend looking into transfer requirements, especially when going across state lines or transferring to a private 4 yr college). Worst case, you benefit from having a 2 yr degree. I've seen it benefit people when employers specifically request it, and I've seen it help edge people out when two people are going for the same job even if a 2 yr degree isn't required...

 

 

Do you have a source for that? When I was looking into maybe getting a part-time job, I saw some ads that required an associate's degree (or just 60 college credits in general, to be honest) - they didn't care (at least in the ad) whether it was an a transfer one or an applied one...

 

Both of these posts are good reminders that it really does depend on the schools AND the job market in each individual person's area. :)

 

What I meant in my post about "employability" was that an AAS AAS as a dental hygienist or welder or other specific vo-tech field is more employable *at a higher pay level*.

 

My state has still not recovered very well from the economic downturn, and the only edge I'm seeing is that entry level jobs (such as sales) or "next step" jobs (ass't. manager or manager) require EITHER experience OR an Associate degree. So an Associate degree can be a help there. However, again, just speaking about my state, many holders of Bachelor degrees (and even Master degrees in Business! -- I know several people in this position) cannot find decent jobs locally, unless it is a degree in a medical, engineering, or teaching. :( So a degree is no guarantee of employee in these parts. :(

 

In addition to researching schools and transferability of credits, it also might be helpful to research specific Associate degrees and hire-ability, as well as state employment statistics (if the student wants to stay local to family), or statistics of jobs/hiring in potential future areas of residence. Gah! It's overwhelming, isn't it?! 

 

 

... Also consider whether or not you want your student to be eligible for incoming freshman scholarships. You can have a certain amount (up to 30, I think) and still be eligible. If that's a concern, you may want to consider the possibility of auditing classes.

 

Depends on the university. Many of the schools I've looked at either (around the country, not just my state) do NOT have a maximum on credits to still come in with freshman eligibility. Or they allow earning an Associate degree (60 credits) prior to high school graduation and still grant freshman status upon admission. A few schools I looked at have a lower maximum of 24 credits, or even as low as 12 credits to maintain freshman eligibility, so it really does require researching each individual university you might be interested in attending. :)

 

Just an FYI: also check the university policies about auditing. Some schools restrict what courses can be audited, or allow the instructor to decide whether or not to accept audit students. Also, in many schools, auditing still requires paying full freight tuition cost for auditing, and at the end of the class, you have no credit for possible transfer. In these cases, auditing might need to be about the personal knowledge gained from the course, rather than a direct college/career aid.

 

If that is the case, then it might be worthwhile to check out some of the free Opensource courses and MOOC that are widely available. I'm also starting to see some people earning credit through MOOC courses and then taking CLEP or DANTE tests after. Check out this article: "MOOCs for Credit".

 

 

I agree that I wouldn't automatically assume it, but for a student who doesn't know what he wants to do (and who is considering many fields that might require 4 or more years as in the OP), an AA or AS offers a lot more flexibility than an AAS...

 

Yes, that's pretty much what I said in my post, too ;). Hope all the discussion is helping, OP! :) Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited December 18, 2017 by Lori D.

[G5052]

I'm a state community college professor. My oldest got a 2-year transfer degree and got admitted to a selective 4-year with a guaranteed admission agreement. My younger one just started and is headed that way.

 

I'd go for the most general transfer degree possible, which is likely going to be liberal arts. See if there are any transfer agreements in place as well.

 

Even with a transfer degree, there were some "waisted" classes my oldest had to take for the associate's and some he took for the 4-year that the community college didn't require. I say that because we had to pay for them, but of course every class has some merit along the way. It was quite a chore to figure it all out because the counsellors that were there at the time were all new and not up on people transferring.

 

My younger one is headed towards a liberal arts degree, and it is far, far easier. Other than having certain history classes and four semesters of Spanish, she has a lot more flexibility. Last spring a counsellor from the main campus transferred to our branch to be the head counsellor, and thankfully she's the liberal arts counsellor. So now we have someone who knows all the ins-and-outs! 

Edited December 19, 2017 by G5052