Word Nerd Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 I saw this article in a Best of 2017 roundup and I found it worth reading, especially since DH and I are facing some challenges in our relationship lately, which is unusual for us. Reminding myself of the basics and the seemingly obvious stuff we tend to take for granted after so many years together has been helpful. What would you add to the author’s compilation of marriage advice people shared with him as a newlywed? https://qz.com/884448/every-successful-relationship-is-successful-for-the-same-exact-reasons/ (A request: Please keep the discussion positive. If you don’t agree with something, share what works for you instead, rather than picking apart the advice or criticizing the author. Not that that ever happens when articles get shared here. ;)) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 being together is a choice. love is a choice. when circumstances are really difficult - it is a choice to stay together. you reap the benefits when circumstances get better. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hjffkj Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 For us losing respect wasn't an end all. Dh once, very uncharacteristically said something that hurt me so much. It was so uncharacteristic of him he didn't even realize what he had said until the next day. I lost a lot of respect for him that day. He list respect for himself. The way he reacted when he realized what he had said saved a long road back to a good relationship. That respect came back gradually because of how he handled the hurt he caused. I like the list for the most part. I will add for us, being best friends makes our relationship stronger. He is the person I want to spend all my time with, talk to, etc and vice versa. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alice Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 The two best pieces of advice we got when we were getting married were: 1) It’s never 50/50. Sometime it will be 100/0. And sometimes you will be the person giving 100 and sometimes you will be the person giving 0. But if both of you do your best to be the one giving 100, you’ll be ok. 2) Not everything you think needs to be said out loud. Both were from couples in our church who had been married a long time. The second has been particularly helpful to me. It was told me by our pastor’s wife who was a very outspoken woman. Most people were giving advice like “don’t go to bed angry†and to talk everything out. And she said that she realized that sometimes she thought things that when she slept on them, she no longer felt. It was helpful for me to realize it was ok to process something internally and not talk everything out. Obviously, the big stuff needs to be talked about but sometimes it’s ok to let things go. 19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wintermom Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 (edited) It's a pretty good list, but I really disagree with #7 "You and your partner will grow and change in unexpected ways" He should also add that, "You and your partner will also stay the same in most ways, so choose your partner well without expecting them to change major things." There might be a lot of superficial changes, and there will be health changes over time, but very relatively few changes in values and personality. Edited December 15, 2017 by wintermom 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbel Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 I thought the list was pretty good. I agree with hjffkk about losing respect. There have been a couple of times I've lost respect for my husband; they were fleeting and when I got over it, I got over it. I imagine the same has occurred to him. We have never talked about it. We have only been married 22 years so one of us could still do something horrid to cause a breakup, but I doubt it. We came into this marriage both having been married before for stupid reasons. We were very careful this time around to be sure we shared the same morals, ethics, religious beliefs*, and general ideas for what we wanted our life to look like. Some things have changed a lot - I married a well-paid computer engineer who is now a part-time pastor and also works full-time for a nonprofit (neither job carries an engineer's salary lol). But I was completely on board for that change, so... :- ) *I know many will say that having different religious beliefs (including one partner with no beliefs) has not been a problem in their marriages, and I believe them. I have never known anyone personally where there was no friction in the relationship over religious differences. So I'm going by my own observations. YMMV and all that. :-) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrissiK Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 I would say I agree with most of what was written. In regards to communication and sharing..... personally, I ask myself, “is this beneficial for him and for our relationship?†I don’t keep secrets from DH, but sometimes it’s better to just let some things be left unsaid. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannah Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 People earn resect through how they treat others. Dh and I have not always agreed on everything, but our differences have been handled in a respectful and kind manner. Treating each other with respect is a minimum requirement for me. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happypamama Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 I think it’s mostly a good list. I agree about little stuff adding up to be big stuff. I’m not entirely sure about “get married for the right reasons.†I mean, yes, get married because this is a person you like and love and want to be with, but there’s something to be said for doing it as young starry-eyed barely-adults who are head over heels in love and who can’t possibly foresee all the ups and downs of the future. It’s not a bad thing to have grown up together and formed your thoughts about life around each other. It’s not a bad thing to come into a marriage where the only relationship baggage is stuff we bring jointly. There’s something to be said for just doing it and not thinking too hard about whether you’ve made the right choice or not. (I would not call us impulsive. We’d been together almost seven years before we got married, which was really at the first point we had the ability to do so. But we also both married a person we liked AND loved, and I think that’s important.). So I’m thinking “the right reasons†aren’t necessarily the same for everyone. My advice to newlywed couples would be: 1. Your spouse is yours. You left your parents and siblings; your children will leave. Your spouse is the one person on earth who is just yours. Guard that relationship carefully with how you talk, how you treat that person, how close you get to anyone else. 2. Stay up for teA. Aside from real sickness, if your partner is interested, make the effort. It’ll be worth the lack of sleep. 3. Divorce isn’t an option except for a few extreme issues. If you think about divorce, think about whether that person is really so horrible that you’d deprive your precious children, those small parts of you whom you love with your life, of their other parent for any portion of time. So if splitting up isn’t an issue, then you might as well figure out how you can be happy or at least comfortable. 4. Keep yourself interesting. Always be learning and taking in new stuff. Have hobbies. Even if your spouse doesn’t share your hobbies and interests, having them keeps you satisfied and also provides interesting tidbits to share with your spouse, small points of connection throughout the day. And even if you don’t share your spouse’s hobbies, be appreciative; DH and I appreciate the handmade, so we admire the things that the other creates and see the value in making time and space (literally) for those things. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 I think it’s mostly a good list. I agree about little stuff adding up to be big stuff. I’m not entirely sure about “get married for the right reasons.†I mean, yes, get married because this is a person you like and love and want to be with, but there’s something to be said for doing it as young starry-eyed barely-adults who are head over heels in love and who can’t possibly foresee all the ups and downs of the future. It’s not a bad thing to have grown up together and formed your thoughts about life around each other. I take it you don't know couples who married for 'the wrong reasons'. e.g. they're far from home, and lonely. or have reached a certain age/stage so feel like they have to get married. they might like the person - but they're marrying for the wrong reasons. and I've seen worse ones too. my brother's first two marriages, were only two. or some that have actually made the news because of the fall out - wanting the party. (a bride who murdered her new husband.) or ignoring red flags, and marrying them anyway. until a number of years down the road and kids, the flags become way too big to ignore anymore. it's cheaper to cancel a wedding than to get divorced. there have been a number of couples I watched from the engagement to the divorce - and I'm sorry to say, I saw most coming and it was only a matter of time. re: trust. dh tried really really hard to council the daughter of a friend not to remarry her ex-husband. "do you trust him?" no, but I love him. she married and divorced the guy twice! what we have taught our children - is marry your "equal" in the sense of priorities in your life. values, etc. ability to recognize that which is of worth, and implement it in your life. it has little to do with formal education, as not everyone has the opportunity or is interested. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happypamama Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 I take it you don't know couples who married for 'the wrong reasons'. e.g. they're far from home, and lonely. or have reached a certain age/stage so feel like they have to get married. they might like the person - but they're marrying for the wrong reasons. and I've seen worse ones too. my brother's first two marriages, were only two. or some that have actually made the news because of the fall out - wanting the party. (a bride who murdered her new husband.) or ignoring red flags, and marrying them anyway. until a number of years down the road and kids, the flags become way too big to ignore anymore. it's cheaper to cancel a wedding than to get divorced. there have been a number of couples I watched from the engagement to the divorce - and I'm sorry to say, I saw most coming and it was only a matter of time. re: trust. dh tried really really hard to council the daughter of a friend not to remarry her ex-husband. "do you trust him?" no, but I love him. she married and divorced the guy twice! what we have taught our children - is marry your "equal" in the sense of priorities in your life. values, etc. ability to recognize that which is of worth, and implement it in your life. it has little to do with formal education, as not everyone has the opportunity or is interested. Oh, of course. I don't think anyone should marry for the wrong reasons. I just took offense at the line in the article that implied that "being young and naive and hopelessly in love and thinking that love would solve everything" was automatically a wrong reason for getting married. Sometimes it's not. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrganicJen Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 I'm sure plenty of people disagree with this but one of the best things for myself personally in relationships has been choosing partners with similar political , philosophical, and religious beliefs. I had been given advice that it didn't matter if someone was a different religion or whatever because we just had to love and respect each other, but personally I learned that having similar basic personal beliefs about the world was key to a successful relationship. I think our fundamental beliefs color so much of how we view things and for me I've found that those beliefs need to be something I have in common with a partner and it isn't something that love and respect just overcome. I had received advice that I shouldn't be so picky since love will overcome many issues and because of that I overlooked differences in basic beliefs in past relationships, and it wasn't until I decided that being picky was good and I should be way more selective that I finally found my forever relationship in which I'm truly happy. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 (edited) I want to comment on this: 5. A healthy relationship means two healthy individuals It's true, but it is also not always within our control. Or their control. When a person is unhealthy, the relationship cannot be healthy. And there things get complicated, because humans are prone to many types of mental and emotional illness. Which doesn't always means there is no hope for a relationship. What it does mean is that lists of "Here are the things healthy relationships have" are profoundly insufficient to guarantee a healthy relationship. Edited December 16, 2017 by maize 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-rap Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 I love what people have added. I'll add a few more (and will probably think of yet more :). Love is not always about feeling; it's sometimes just raw commitment. Be patient. What goes around usually comes around. :) Getting married for the wrong reasons does't mean you're doomed. Because let's face it, many people probably marry for the wrong reasons! With dedication and commitment, love can grow and blossom and be truly amazing. Give the other the benefit of the doubt, always. People learn and mature at different speeds. If they're not learning and maturing at the same speed as you are, it doesn't mean they're uncaring or uncommitted. I happen to have lucked out and have been quite madly in love with my dh for over 30 years. But I've seen all sorts of very sweet, successful marriages that didn't always follow that path. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted December 16, 2017 Author Share Posted December 16, 2017 I’ve been thinking about the “fight well†advice, especially as it relates to comments above about not necessarily sharing everything you’re thinking while you process it. I agree completely that you need to choose your battles, then once you’ve had a battle, then it’s done and shouldn’t be used as ammunition in the future. I’m just not sure how much to include DH in my post-“fight†processing and healing. How do you leave a fight behind you if you’ve resolved the issue but haven’t yet moved past the hurt? Just musing, I guess. I don’t really want to share specifics. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMS83 Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 Sacrifice and charity. Forgiveness. Time. Lots of all of that. How much to include your DH will depend on how helpful he is in the healing process. If it seems too much for him or you, find a mentor. Or a counselor. Or just keep a private journal, if that's helpful. Just don't bottle it up. Give him status updates, at least, though, and try not to let it crowd out other areas of your lives together. It's hard. Life is hard, and so is marriage. :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G5052 Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 Yes, good article. John Gottman's work is amazing. He and his wife have a lot of videos on Youtube. Here's one summary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knBJGNisJS0. If you want a more sobering one, there's this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o30Ps-_8is. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lllll Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 (edited) Nm Edited December 18, 2017 by _______ 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 Oh, of course. I don't think anyone should marry for the wrong reasons. I just took offense at the line in the article that implied that "being young and naive and hopelessly in love and thinking that love would solve everything" was automatically a wrong reason for getting married. Sometimes it's not. ah - I understand where you're coming from now. yes - I would add the caveat it's "naive about what?" are they otherwise functional/on their way to being functional? or not functional? I know a young woman who is naive about way too many things. I also dont' think she's of a normal IQ, but she's engaged. no date, they can't afford to get married. she even sent out a "will you contribute to my wedding?" email to a group to which we both belong. I dont' think anyone did. and anyone who tries to help her see reality - gets verbally slammed. this young woman, I would definitely put in that group because she's not wise, and I wouldn't trust her to make a wise choice in a partner. I'm sure her young man is just as clueless and naive (re: dysfunctional) as is she. but I have known young women who were pretty clueless - in a more normal just need life-experience sort of way - who did just fine getting married young and learning about life together. I love what people have added. I'll add a few more (and will probably think of yet more :). Love is not always about feeling; it's sometimes just raw commitment. Be patient. What goes around usually comes around. :) Getting married for the wrong reasons does't mean you're doomed. Because let's face it, many people probably marry for the wrong reasons! With dedication and commitment, love can grow and blossom and be truly amazing. Give the other the benefit of the doubt, always. People learn and mature at different speeds. If they're not learning and maturing at the same speed as you are, it doesn't mean they're uncaring or uncommitted. I happen to have lucked out and have been quite madly in love with my dh for over 30 years. But I've seen all sorts of very sweet, successful marriages that didn't always follow that path. arranged marriages used to be very common. I recall reading a story about a couple who were an arranged marriage, and had been married 50 years. it was after an earthquake - and she had been injured, but he was devastated and concerned for her recovery. attitude is everything. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaeFlowers Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 I agreed with most of the article. To be honest, I jusy skimmed through it... But, one thing caught my eye that I did disagree with. I think it is okay to keep secrets. I don't think we need to know everything. It's part of giving the other space and letting them be who they are. (Obviously, Im not talking about secrets used to cover up the big stuff like cheating or addiction.) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 It actually really resonates with me, although it's way too wordy, lol. This quote is SO true, and describes my first marriage: Shitty, codependent relationships have an inherent stability because you’re both locked in an implicit bargain to tolerate the other person’s bad behavior because they’re tolerating yours, and neither of you wants to be alone. On the surface, it seems like “compromising in relationships because that’s what people do,†but the reality is that resentments build up, and both parties become the other person’s emotional hostage against having to face and deal with their own bullshit (it took me 14 years to realize this, by the way). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 (edited) what we have taught our children - is marry your "equal" in the sense of priorities in your life. values, etc. ability to recognize that which is of worth, and implement it in your life. it has little to do with formal education, as not everyone has the opportunity or is interested. I think it can definitely have something to do with formal education. Unequally educated *can* be a huge issue, and dare I say it? It can be a more significant issue if the woman is more educated than the man. It isn't always, so no one jump on me about their great aunt Gertrude who was the first female medical doctor in the area, married to a carpenter with no high school and how wonderful it was. I know there are anecdotal stories, but overall, the respect level can become an issue when the wife is higher educated, a significantly higher wage earner, etc.... By the same token, I am a firm believer a woman needs a career, even if she doesn't plan to work. Anything can happen. Job loss, death, illness, etc.... Edited December 17, 2017 by DawnM 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavender's green Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 (edited) I thought it was a pretty good article, but I like the Hive's tweaks to his advice even more. I'm glad we learned how to fight well, early in our marriage. I remember how absolutely crushed I was the only time my DH said, "You always ____!" We also don't re-hash old events. Such simple rules, Relationships 101, really, but a lot of people don't know them. I like the waves metaphor. DH and I were just talking last night (and we normally don't have big State of the Relationship conversations) about how we had been in a really tough, dry, low period last year. Nothing was anyone's fault; it was just part of the normal flow of life. But we never stopped clinging to each other. Now we are reaping some amazing fruit. Edited December 17, 2017 by lavender's green 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaeFlowers Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 I’ve been thinking about the “fight well†advice, especially as it relates to comments above about not necessarily sharing everything you’re thinking while you process it. I agree completely that you need to choose your battles, then once you’ve had a battle, then it’s done and shouldn’t be used as ammunition in the future. I’m just not sure how much to include DH in my post-“fight†processing and healing. How do you leave a fight behind you if you’ve resolved the issue but haven’t yet moved past the hurt? Just musing, I guess. I don’t really want to share specifics. It's okay to say, "I'm hurt right now and need time to process." That doesnt mean yell and scream. That means taking the time to work through it mentally. Dh and I had some issues in the beginning of our marriage and I sucked it up. In an attempt to be forgiving and move on for the sake of our marriage, I swallowed the anger. TBH, I didnt even realize I was doing it for a long time. But, at some point, I had to let myself be angry. I didnt talk with him about it but I let him know I was working through it. I told him, "Im hurt and Im angry. Ive never let myself be those things. I need to work through them so I wont carry them around anymore. I need it for me and for you." He let me be. I dont know if that is what you are talking about but, if it is, I hope that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 I think it can definitely have something to do with formal education. Unequally educated *can* be a huge issue, and dare I say it? It can be a more significant issue if the woman is more educated than the man. It isn't always, so no one jump on me about their great aunt Gertrude who was the first female medical doctor in the area, married to a carpenter with no high school and how wonderful it was. I know there are anecdotal stories, but overall, the respect level can become an issue when the wife is higher educated, a significantly higher wage earner, etc.... By the same token, I am a firm believer a woman needs a career, even if she doesn't plan to work. Anything can happen. Job loss, death, illness, etc.... absolutely! agree with this! btdtgtts - so, yeah, I pushed my girls to get a good education so they could support their families by themselves if they ever need to do so. 2dd has a doc, a more advanced degree than her dh, and does make a healthy chunk more than him (though he makes a comfortable income for their area) - but he's very ambitious, and I think that is a big part of if it can work or not. (now, we're trying to talk him out of going for a jd. he just got his mba. I think he'd be happier in sales.) she briefly dated a jd while she was in grad school (so, would have been "equal" in education), and he drove her nuts because he wasn't ambitious past his getting his degree. so, she moved on. but I have seen the other too - dh's musician nephew (who has a number of degrees, but whose income comes from "gigs", private students, teaching the odd class, etc.) was divorced by his lawyer ex-wife. but I think a big part of it was how obnoxious he can be. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soror Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 Lots of good advice, I think what works for one doesn't for another. I am sensitive and think way too much, I've had to learn to just be quiet sometimes. Dh had to learn to talk and share more. I love Alice's point about it never being 50/50 but I think that is crucial to make sure you one person isn't the one always giving more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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