I'm worried about my older sister, thinking challenges...

[J-rap]

Maybe she has always been this way!  I don't know.  She is quite a bit older than me... early 60's now, but has always been active, just bought a new home, still working full-time (as a kindergarten teacher).

 

I guess for the first time in my life, I've had to work with her on some more complicated projects.  She couldn't think through anything.  And I mean anything.  She had to rely on me 100% to give her direction, to tell her what to do.  Once I did that, she was great.  She's a great follower.

 

As an example, we recently had to turn a home into a social venue.  I got into the home, walked though in my mind what would be necessary, and made a plan.  She got into the home, and could think of nothing.  Totally overwhelmed and frozen.  I began giving her directions -- clear the counters, for example. 

 

This is how the conversation would go:

 

Me:  We'll need to completely clear off the counters.

 

Her:  Okay.  Where do we start?

 

Me:  Well, maybe get some big boxes.

 

Her:  Where should I get them?

 

Me:  I don't know.  Maybe first look in the garage?  Perhaps there are some there.  Otherwise we'll go to stores and see if they have old boxes, or U-Haul companies, etc.  Lots of options.

 

Her:  What size boxes?

 

Me:  Well, big ones, but not too big that we can't carry them ourselves once they're full.

 

Her:  What should I do with the boxes once they're full?

 

Me:  We can just store them in the garage, I suppose, or ask the owners.

 

So, this is how it went with every single step.  There was not one step where she could just take the bull by the horns and figure it out herself.  And, this experience was just as new for me as her.

 

Does this seem unusual to you?

 

Now we're planning our family Christmas, and it's the same way.  She needs my lead on everything.  She hasn't been able to think through a single thing on her own.

 

So now I'm going back into our past, to see if she has always been like this.  And actually, I think she kind of has been, but I've never really worked with her on projects before.  Before, my mother planned holidays and events and gave directions, so I guess I didn't always pay attention.

 

My sister has had epilepsy all her life, and been on pretty intense meds throughout to control it.  I always knew she could only handle one thing at a time.  My mother used to say that she was my sister's memory, because my sister couldn't remember her past well.

 

Now suddenly I'm seeing all of this clearly, and also thinking it's worsening with age.  She is married to a great guy who will take care of things.  (Second marriage, so has only been 10 years.)  But, it is disconcerting as well.

 

It's weird to think she has maybe had this problem all her life and I haven't noticed it, or that it's getting worse, or probably both.  

 

I don't know what I'm asking.  It's really eye-opening though.

 

 

 

 

[TheReader]

From what little I know about epilepsy and the drugs used to control it, I would think it's very likely a side effect of either the epilepsy itself or the treatment for it.

 

I'm sorry you're just noticing the extent of it now; it makes sense you wouldn't have noticed as much previously. Don't be too hard on yourself for that part of it. 

[Bootsie]

Some people are, by personality, much more "grab the bull by the horns" people.  Sometimes perfectionists will have trouble tackling a problem because they are afraid about what happens if they don't have the perfect size box, etc.  She may be someone who just wants to make sure that you are both in agreement with how something is done; it could be more important to her that the boxes are put where you want them put than to get the boxes quickly and easily stored somewhere.  

 

I have also seem some medications have side effects like this.

[J-rap]

Some people are, by personality, much more "grab the bull by the horns" people.  Sometimes perfectionists will have trouble tackling a problem because they are afraid about what happens if they don't have the perfect size box, etc.  She may be someone who just wants to make sure that you are both in agreement with how something is done; it could be more important to her that the boxes are put where you want them put than to get the boxes quickly and easily stored somewhere.  

 

I have also seem some medications have side effects like this.

 

I don't think she's a perfectionist though.  That isn't a trait that runs in my family at all, though sometimes I wish we had at least a little of that... :)  I think in her case, she was just blank.

[Twolittleboys]

I wouldn't be too worried if she has always (more or less) been like that. If it was a sudden change I would be worried.

 

I could see this as more a sign of being unsure, wanting to do everything right etc. than not being able to think clearly. Or for example in my case I am pretty useless at unexpected physical stuff like cleaning up after a party etc. Everyone else is running around, moving chairs, wiping off tables etc. and I have no clue what to do unless someone tells me. And of course I know I am not good at that kind of stuff so I freeze even more. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

I would just ask her husband if it has gotten worse. I think that changes in ability to think are more indicative of possible problems. Also- can she plan and manage in her normal every day tasks? Some people do need checklists and routines.

 

 

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[J-rap]

I wouldn't be too worried if she has always (more or less) been like that. If it was a sudden change I would be worried.

 

I could see this as more a sign of being unsure, wanting to do everything right etc. than not being able to think clearly. Or for example in my case I am pretty useless at unexpected physical stuff like cleaning up after a party etc. Everyone else is running around, moving chairs, wiping off tables etc. and I have no clue what to do unless someone tells me. And of course I know I am not good at that kind of stuff so I freeze even more. 

 

Ok, this is helpful to hear actually.  Maybe some people are just this way??

[J-rap]

I would just ask her husband if it has gotten worse. I think that changes in ability to think are more indicative of possible problems. Also- can she plan and manage in her normal every day tasks? Some people do need checklists and routines.

 

 

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I don't know if I feel close enough to her dh to ask him this, but perhaps if the opportunity presented itself I would.  He actually has Aspergers, but is a great guy and completely competent.   I don't know if she is managing every day tasks.  I just assumed she was, but who knows! 

[plansrme]

I have a secretary like this--a LOT like this, actually.  She is in her mid-60s, she's worked for us for about ten years, and she's always been this way.  I can't speak to what she was like more than 10 years ago, though.  It used to drive me insane, but now I've made my peace with it and actually like her.  She needs very explicit instructions, she writes every step of a new process down, and she seemingly has no ability to deviate from a particular method of doing something.  On the other hand, she is very dogged--she WILL finish your project if you give her enough instructions.  It might take her three days, but she will finish.  I suspect she has trained herself to be that way because she has always been employed.  I don't know if this is much help, but maybe kindergarten teaching is your sister's version of filing my crap--when it comes to filing, this woman doesn't let my stuff hit the out box before she has it safely ensconced in a folder.  I don't think she shines in any other area of competence but filing, but it's enough for me. 

[MedicMom]

Honestly this is just how some people are. There’s nothing wrong with it. If she were in her mid 20s and having difficulty holding a job or relationships, I might be concerned. But as a kindergarten teacher she’s clearly intelligent and was able to complete higher education, and hold down a good job for a long time. She’s in a ten year relationship, so she’s got decent relational qualities.

 

It’s probably just a quirk and i wouldn’t think twice.

[Elizabeth86]

I'm like this too unless I'm working solo and it's my project. I need it layed out step by step. I swear I'm only cut out to work on an assembly line or something. I have no problem solving abilities. I blame my helicopter parents. Lol

Edited December 16, 2017 by Elizabeth86

[lllll]

nm

Edited December 18, 2017 by _______

[gaillardia]

I was thinking same thing as PPs above. When I have worked with others who do things differently, I wait for their direction. It can get too confusing to have too many chiefs. 

On the other hand, maybe your sister isn't used to doing things in unfamiliar situations. Can you talk to her about it? That you are the younger sister and giving direction is different than what I'm used to. lol

 

[sassenach]

I'm very curious how she manages to teach K with that trait. Teaching seems to require near constant decisions and improvising. 

[Ausmumof3]

I can be a bit like this. I'd feel intimidated about moving stuff around in someone else's home or space to be honest. Although I can tackle stuff I'm slower and I'm not very forceful so if there's a take charge person around I'm going to let them lead even if I secretly have my own ideas...

 

If this was a new thing or a change I'd be worried but if it's always been like this I wouldn't stress too much.

[Tree Frog]

I'm like that when I have to work with my dh sometimes. He always has a better way, a faster way, a cheaper way, a whatever way, to do things. So, depending on how I'm feeling at the moment, I sometimes just wait for 'orders'. It beats listening to the subsequent 'lecture' about how I should have done the thing. Other times, I just ignore him and do what I want and change the subject when I see the 'lecture' coming on. And, btw, sometimes he's right, but sometimes he's not. But he always thinks he's right. (He's probably a real joy to work with at his job. ;) I can tell by some of the things he tells me from work that he does the same stuff there, too.)

This is me, too, for the exact same reason with my husband and similar reasons with my sister. I'm entirely competent when the projects are my own, but dh and dsis don't think the way I do and don't understand how I'm organizing things. It's easier to let them take control than to hear a different way to do it each time something needs to be done. Or a question about why I'm doing it that way instead of the way they think it's better.

 

Op, I'm on my phone and can't see the entire title of your thread. If you suspect something is up with your sister in regards to her memory and epilepsy, can you ask her about it? My sister and I talk about the aging struggles we have on a fairly regular basis. Maybe she'd like to share the burden she's feeling or isn't sure what to do about it.

[OneStepAtATime]

FWIW, if my mom is working with someone else anxiety keeps her from taking charge.  She is afraid she will do something incorrectly or that the other person has a better handle on things.  She struggles with multi-tasking as well.  She can only do one thing at a time. 

 

However, she is very capable of completing tasks that are familiar to her and if she is the sole person in charge then things will get done.  She was a teacher for many decades, and at the middle school and high School level.  She did fine but the curriculum was chosen for her, the school had a set schedule, there were teacher work days for getting her classroom fixed, etc.  And once she had been teaching for a couple of years then the whole process was familiar to her so she could step outside her mental box more and be more creative in her approach.

 

She is also not good at organizing things.  She likes things to be organized and she is willing to work very hard to GET things organized but she does not intuitively know what to do to GET things organized.  She needs step by step instructions.   She needs a plan to follow.  Otherwise the whole thing is just too overwhelming.

 

I agree with others, if your sister has always been this way then she probably just needed your guidance in the moment and is fine.  This is just an area of weakness for her but she probably functions well in her daily life.  If this is a significant change then I would gently encourage her to see her doctor.  There can be all kinds of things that can cause someone to struggle to make decisions, including hypoglycemia, food allergies, medications, dementia, and on and on...

[Terabith]

Given that she works successfully as a kindergarten teacher, I would bet dollars to donuts that it's more of an anxiety about working with other people than inability to problem solve on her own.  I suspect if she was doing this project ALONE, she would have managed just fine, but that she was doing it with you, she was deferring to you as the leader, and trying to be clear on what you, as "the leader" wanted done. 

[momacacia]

She may have thought you were lead on the project. Had you been to this place before, but not her? Are you the older sibling?

 

And, she may not be a big picture thinker, able to step back and break a larger project into smaller steps. Not everybody is and it's certainly not needed for teaching K.

[J-rap]

I have a secretary like this--a LOT like this, actually.  She is in her mid-60s, she's worked for us for about ten years, and she's always been this way.  I can't speak to what she was like more than 10 years ago, though.  It used to drive me insane, but now I've made my peace with it and actually like her.  She needs very explicit instructions, she writes every step of a new process down, and she seemingly has no ability to deviate from a particular method of doing something.  On the other hand, she is very dogged--she WILL finish your project if you give her enough instructions.  It might take her three days, but she will finish.  I suspect she has trained herself to be that way because she has always been employed.  I don't know if this is much help, but maybe kindergarten teaching is your sister's version of filing my crap--when it comes to filing, this woman doesn't let my stuff hit the out box before she has it safely ensconced in a folder.  I don't think she shines in any other area of competence but filing, but it's enough for me. 

 

Yes, this is exactly how my sister is.  If I giver her a list of specific instructions, or ask her to do me a favor, or give her a project with clear directions, she will follow it 100% til the end.  I can be sure of that.

[J-rap]

Honestly this is just how some people are. There’s nothing wrong with it. If she were in her mid 20s and having difficulty holding a job or relationships, I might be concerned. But as a kindergarten teacher she’s clearly intelligent and was able to complete higher education, and hold down a good job for a long time. She’s in a ten year relationship, so she’s got decent relational qualities.

 

It’s probably just a quirk and i wouldn’t think twice.

 

Yes, you're probably right.  I guess mostly I'm just baffled that I've never really picked up on it entirely.  By the time I was more observant and in my teens, she was long out of the house.  And then we often lived in different states or sometimes different countries even.  She's certainly a great lady though!

[J-rap]

I'm like that when I have to work with my dh sometimes.  He always has a better way, a faster way, a cheaper way, a whatever way, to do things.  So, depending on how I'm feeling at the moment, I sometimes just wait for 'orders'.  It beats listening to the subsequent 'lecture' about how I should have done the thing.  Other times, I just ignore him and do what I want and change the subject when I see the 'lecture' coming on.  And, btw, sometimes he's right, but sometimes he's not.  But he always thinks he's right.  (He's probably a real joy to work with at his job.  ;)  I can tell by some of the things he tells me from work that he does the same stuff there, too.)

 

Not that you're like that, J-rap.  Just that maybe she thinks you're more competent or organized or whatever than she is?  I can't really tell from your description.  Or maybe that's how she interacts with her dh because of his Aspergers?  Can you ask her about it and try to get her to tell you?  That might be interesting to see what her thought processes are.  :)

 

Ha, in my own home, it's probably more like it is in your home!  My dh has always had stronger opinions and ideas, and I'm generally more just okay with anything.  (I'm definitely not a type A personality!)  But it could be that it's partly me too.  I've become used to people around me who see a goal and tackle it -- my dh and several kids are like this.  Maybe I've become more that way than I used to be as a result, so the contrast between my sister and I seems greater now.

[J-rap]

I was thinking same thing as PPs above. When I have worked with others who do things differently, I wait for their direction. It can get too confusing to have too many chiefs. 

On the other hand, maybe your sister isn't used to doing things in unfamiliar situations. Can you talk to her about it? That you are the younger sister and giving direction is different than what I'm used to. lol

 

Yes, it's probably partly the unfamiliarity with it for her.  But in hindsite, I can see that I was usually the one who made the plans, and she would quite happily follow along.  Maybe it started out as just her nature, and has now become habit.  I don't think I could talk to her about it though.  She's pretty sensitive about things, and I'm afraid she'd take it the wrong way.

[J-rap]

I'm very curious how she manages to teach K with that trait. Teaching seems to require near constant decisions and improvising. 

 

l've wondered about this too, except that she's always been great with young children.  

[J-rap]

FWIW, if my mom is working with someone else anxiety keeps her from taking charge.  She is afraid she will do something incorrectly or that the other person has a better handle on things.  She struggles with multi-tasking as well.  She can only do one thing at a time. 

 

However, she is very capable of completing tasks that are familiar to her and if she is the sole person in charge then things will get done.  She was a teacher for many decades, and at the middle school and high School level.  She did fine but the curriculum was chosen for her, the school had a set schedule, there were teacher work days for getting her classroom fixed, etc.  And once she had been teaching for a couple of years then the whole process was familiar to her so she could step outside her mental box more and be more creative in her approach.

 

She is also not good at organizing things.  She likes things to be organized and she is willing to work very hard to GET things organized but she does not intuitively know what to do to GET things organized.  She needs step by step instructions.   She needs a plan to follow.  Otherwise the whole thing is just too overwhelming.

 

I agree with others, if your sister has always been this way then she probably just needed your guidance in the moment and is fine.  This is just an area of weakness for her but she probably functions well in her daily life.  If this is a significant change then I would gently encourage her to see her doctor.  There can be all kinds of things that can cause someone to struggle to make decisions, including hypoglycemia, food allergies, medications, dementia, and on and on...

I'd say this sounds a lot like my sister.  She has always been quite shy, and I suspect there is some anxiety.  It's also very, very difficult for her to multitask.  The more I think about this, I think she has always been this way.  It's just that since we're working closely together now (on other things too besides what I mentioned), I see this side of her more starkly.  (And she's probably seeing a side of me more clearly too!)

[J-rap]

She may have thought you were lead on the project. Had you been to this place before, but not her? Are you the older sibling?

 

And, she may not be a big picture thinker, able to step back and break a larger project into smaller steps. Not everybody is and it's certainly not needed for teaching K.

 

The place was mostly new to both of us, and she is the older sibling.  I think you're probably right though that part of it is that she's not a big picture thinker...