How strict are you on math tests?

[HomeAgain]

Youngest ds is starting to get to the point in math where the right numbers are not enough.  A full quarter of his answers on today's test were wrong because he forgot measurements and that sort of thing (in. vs. sq. in., omitting dollar signs, and so on).

 

How closely do you grade problems like that?  Is it enough to let it go, or do you count it fully/partially wrong? 

 

We're still in the struggle of showing his work, too, but he is getting better about that.

[Arcadia]

Who needs the test scores? Also is there a grading rubric (scoring guidelines)?

 

If the test scores are for my reference only then I count it wrong. If the test is for an outsourced class, I go by what the teacher gives as scoring guidelines. For example my kids former K12 math class will have a point allocated to units per question. So if it is a two points question and the child left off the unit, the child only gets a point for that question.

 

For my kids science (outsourced) online quizzes, no units mean all points deducted and my kids just accepted that it means they don’t get an A if they are careless.

[EKS]

What level of math is this?

[snowbeltmom]

Youngest ds is starting to get to the point in math where the right numbers are not enough.  A full quarter of his answers on today's test were wrong because he forgot measurements and that sort of thing (in. vs. sq. in., omitting dollar signs, and so on).

 

How closely do you grade problems like that?  Is it enough to let it go, or do you count it fully/partially wrong? 

 

We're still in the struggle of showing his work, too, but he is getting better about that.

I don't assign letter grades, but I always insisted that the answers included units when appropriate.  I would make them go back through their work and correct these mistakes when units were missing.  After a couple of times of this, they got in the habit of including units.

[HomeAgain]

What level of math is this?

 

Upper elementary.

[HomeAgain]

Who needs the test scores? Also is there a grading rubric (scoring guidelines)?

 

If the test scores are for my reference only then I count it wrong. If the test is for an outsourced class, I go by what the teacher gives as scoring guidelines. For example my kids former K12 math class will have a point allocated to units per question. So if it is a two points question and the child left off the unit, the child only gets a point for that question.

 

For my kids science (outsourced) online quizzes, no units mean all points deducted and my kids just accepted that it means they don’t get an A if they are careless.

 

No one needs the test scores.  It's my eyes only.  But I'm torn between insisting he pay attention to the details and the idea that it's "good enough".

[2_girls_mommy]

It isn't good enough. But I am not keeping grades. I just want them to learn to do the work. What I always  did was remind before a test to show the labels. I also have always had kids go back and correct all mistakes on tests. On lazy testing days, that may mean redoing a full test if they forgot the labels on every problem. But all tests are completely corrected always. 

 

My odd, in high school now, has a science teacher that was a college science professor. She keeps the grades for her class. She also returns all tests after the initial grade and has them correct, and gives extra credit points for doing that. Believe it or not, sometimes in those classes, the kids still don't turn them back in for free extra credit points! 

 

 

[snowbeltmom]

No one needs the test scores.  It's my eyes only.  But I'm torn between insisting he pay attention to the details and the idea that it's "good enough".

 

In my opinion, it is not "good enough" if units are missing.  I would try to instill the habit of including units now because sooner or later answers that don't include units will be marked wrong, if not by you, then by an AP grader or professor.  You will be doing your son a big favor by being a stickler about this issue, even if doesn't realize it at this time. ;)

 

 

[Arcadia]

No one needs the test scores. It's my eyes only. But I'm torn between insisting he pay attention to the details and the idea that it's "good enough".

I won’t give a score then and just make the child do corrections for those he missed out the units or got the units wrong.

My boys can be very careless and I found it easier that I have always been particular since early elementary. They are still careless at times but they understood that marks would be deducted whether it is for math, physics or chemistry.

 

How many questions were on the tests usually? My kids carelessness increases with the amount of questions they have to answer. It did get better with age even though my DS13 has been having teen fog syndrome so I have to remind him to check his work before submitting.

[EKS]

Upper elementary.

 

I would not be grading math papers at that level.  I'd just keep making the student correct their work.

 

That said, if this were a high school math class, and it was a test (I don't grade homework), I would make a very minor deduction for missing units (so, say 0.25-0.5 points on a 5 point problem) UNLESS the test was on dealing with units OR the student was having persistent problems remembering to record the units and was on notice that lots of points would be lost if units were omitted.

[Syllieann]

No one needs the test scores. It's my eyes only. But I'm torn between insisting he pay attention to the details and the idea that it's "good enough".

I lean toward instilling the attention to details. I ask him if he checked all his answers before he gives me the test. If there are errors I count it wrong, then give half credit for fixing it. Eventually, I assume he will roll his eyes and say, “Of course I checked it.†At that point I will stop asking him and just take off points for errors.

[Tanaqui]

Whether or not you are strict after the fact, I think at this stage it wouldn't go awry to remind him before his test "Listen, don't forget those units! If you don't give me the correct unit, the answer isn't correct even if the number is."

[Loowit]

I don't generally do grades at that age, but I do go over work and insist that units are there.  It is a habit that is good to develop now rather than it becoming a problem later on when it is important.

[Element]

I give dd credit but make her fix every answer. After the tenth time of having to stop doing something else and fix forgotten labels on a math test, she starts to remember on future tests. 

[MinivanMom]

At that age, I would mark them wrong and have my kids fix all the problems. If it was an ongoing problem, I would give a verbal reminder beforehand, "Don't forget to write in the units!"

 

I didn't start recording test scores until Algebra. At that point if they had the correct answer but forgot to write the unit of measure, I would mark off several points. 

Edited December 12, 2017 by MinivanMom

[OneStepAtATime]

1.  I did not focus on "grades" at that age because I wanted the kids to get past the mentality they had developed in school where the "grade" matters more than their actual understanding.  Tests IMHO, especially in elementary school, are simply an assessment to determine where they may need more work, lack understanding, need more practice, etc.  I wanted them focusing on their understanding of the material and accept that this is a process.

2.  With things like marking the units, I would remind them ahead of time.  After they had done their work (whether daily work or quiz or a "test") I would ask if they had marked the units (since this was an issue for one of my children) and encourage them to check.  Afterwards I would go back through with them and discuss areas that they did well on and point out areas that they needed to work on, including marking units.  Then I would have them go back and fix anything they missed, including units they might have forgotten to mark.

3.  For a test I would definitely have them go back and write in every unit but at the elementary level I would not count off.   For High School I started deducting.

 

FWIW, there are a LOT of processes that go on in math.  It can take time to remember every single thing that needs to be thought about, processed and written down.  I eventually created a checklist of things for the kids to go back through and look at, including checking units, so that they had a systematic way of reviewing.  Eventually most of that has internalized now.

[MerryAtHope]

I either marked it wrong and had them fix it, or looked it over when they handed it in and said, "Some answers are incomplete. Try again." 

 

Either way, the goal is to have them correct it. You want to develop this habit of writing the units now--because it will get a lot more confusing later on if they aren't including them (think about converting units and mixing things up that weren't properly marked--it will affect their math later if they aren't in the habit now).

Edited December 12, 2017 by MerryAtHope

[Ellie]

If they're wrong, they're wrong. It's a test. That's the point of a test. The time to work on those issues is during the lessons.

[fralala]

Whether or not you are strict after the fact, I think at this stage it wouldn't go awry to remind him before his test "Listen, don't forget those units! If you don't give me the correct unit, the answer isn't correct even if the number is."

 

Yep. Not to mention, on daily math practice, I write little reminders like, "Stop and think before you start to work!" and "Circle your answer!" or "Does this one require units?" or "Check your zeros!" or "Does it make sense?" and whatever little things I know my kids neglect to do in their haste to finish.

 

If something is actually a test, which it rarely is, that is my opportunity to see what they can't do without any help or reminders. Since it's just for me, I don't grade it, but they may actually wish I did-- rather than get a C, they will get lots of extra opportunities to practice what they missed.

[purpleowl]

As a classroom teacher, I would sometimes ask the student as soon as he brought his completed test to me, "Did you check your work? Did you remember units for all the answers that required them?" I think such reminders are fine for a homeschooler, too.

 

In our homeschool, we don't do tests so much at this point (when we were using curriculum that came with tests, I just treated the test as a review of material). But I harp on the units thing regularly by saying things like, "Wow, the pencil was fourteen pancakes long? And the cat weighed nine necklaces?" Because if they didn't give me units, I can make up whatever units I want. ;) They groan at me, but they fix what's missing, and they do a better job remembering the next time.

 

The question of inches vs square inches, though - that could be more than simply forgetting. It could indicate a lack of understanding of the difference between length and area. I would take a bit of time to address that and make sure he gets what a square inch really is and when it's appropriate to use it.

[HomeAgain]

Thanks, all!

 

We do go over it with the daily work, too, so it's just frustrating that this is the second test where he's dropping them.  Last time and this time I offered him a second test (similar, not exact) the next day and averaging the two scores together.  I'm willing to bet it'll be done perfectly tomorrow. :glare:

 

I think I'll start writing on our mini blackboard before each test:

-show your work

-remember your units

-check your answers

 

And I'm hoping this is just the pre-vacation brain fog and he's got it together in January!

[lewelma]

As a tutor, I get kids to leave the computation answer on one line and then in the following line they put it in context of the question --appropriately rounded, with units, with (2dp) or whatever noted, and a statement if appropriate to answer the question. Then I make it clear that computers can do the computations but people do the context. Makes it much harder for them to forget the units if the second line has more context requirements than just that. It also insures that they don't try to round on the fly, but look carefully at the unrounded answer which they wrote on the first line.

Edited December 12, 2017 by lewelma

[MerryAtHope]

We do go over it with the daily work, too, so it's just frustrating that this is the second test where he's dropping them.  

 

Don't feel badly--my kids needed a lot more practice than that to help them remember details such as this. I'd expect MANY more reminders...and just be pleasantly surprised when they don't need them anymore!

[eternalsummer]

That's a clever way to scaffold it, lewelma!

[HomeAgain]

As a tutor, I get kids to leave the computation answer on one line and then in the following line they put it in context of the question --appropriately rounded, with units, with (2dp) or whatever noted, and a statement if appropriate to answer the question. Then I make it clear that computers can do the computations but people do the context. Makes it much harder for them to forget the units if the second line has more context requirements than just that. It also insures that they don't try to round on the fly, but look carefully at the unrounded answer which they wrote on the first line.

 

This is how we approach daily work.  The only difference is, most of his equations that he has to think about during daily work are done in a graph paper notebook, so it encourages him to keep his work straight and do it line by line, then answer separately and box the answer.  It works well.  His entire book is very neat and well written.  The rest of his work is on white paper and that's where he drops the ball.

 

The tests are on white paper. 

 

Hmm.  January we may try moving the tests to the notebook and see if that helps.

[Garga]

For the past 3 years for my now-7th grader, I check his work daily. If the answer is wrong, I circle the problem. If the units are missing, I box it. He still manages to miss about 1/5 of the units on his problems. He gets so invovled in getting the answer that he forgets to add the units.

 

Since I have done this consistently, he is well-aware that he needs to watch his units. If I gave him a test, I would take off half points for missing units.

 

If I were you, I wouldn't take off points until you had been boxing the problems without units for about 2 months, so he has a chance to get into the habit of doing so.

 

If he misses them after 2 months of daily reminders, then I'd take off points, but not mark it as completely wrong.

Edited December 12, 2017 by Garga

[kiana]

If I were marking it for a test, I would take off at most 20% of the points for forgetting units. I do not believe that marking it completely wrong gives an accurate assessment of the level of knowledge of the material on the test. 

 

If I were marking it for "redo the ones you got wrong completely", I would mark it wrong. 

[MerryAtHope]

 

 

Hmm.  January we may try moving the tests to the notebook and see if that helps.

 

I was just going to suggest trying that! 

[luuknam]

I'd subtract more points for missing units on, say, a physics test than I would on a math test. 

 

Either way, I'd make the kid correct the mistake, and give a reminder about the importance of units (if there are a lot of missing units the lecture can get kind of long... I once read that NASA had one of their missions go wrong because someone didn't write units and the person reading it thought it was inches while the person who didn't write the unit meant cm (or the other way around, or something), and it basically cost millions of dollars. It's been a while, and I'm not 100% sure if that story was true, but I don't care - it could've been, and it drives the point home). 

 

Also, I don't give out grades for upper elementary (other than on my quarterly reports, but those are really generic and only intended to keep NY happy). 

[HomeAgain]

Well, he nearly aced it today.  Missed one question because he didn't check his math properly, but he went through before he turned it in and made sure each problem was neatly labeled.

 

AND....

 

when I used the guide to check it, I noticed that NONE of the answers in the guide had units except one for square feet.  Everything else was given in just digits. :huh:

 

So I'm going to compromise here, I think, and keep insisting it is done in daily work but not make a big deal out of the tests just yet.  If he forgets he can go through and label it with me sitting there.

[Tanaqui]

Either way, I'd make the kid correct the mistake, and give a reminder about the importance of units (if there are a lot of missing units the lecture can get kind of long... I once read that NASA had one of their missions go wrong because someone didn't write units and the person reading it thought it was inches while the person who didn't write the unit meant cm (or the other way around, or something), and it basically cost millions of dollars. It's been a while, and I'm not 100% sure if that story was true, but I don't care - it could've been, and it drives the point home).

 

Oh, it's real: https://www.wired.com/2010/11/1110mars-climate-observer-report/

 

[Syllieann]

Oh, it's real: https://www.wired.com/2010/11/1110mars-climate-observer-report/

In my previous employment, we had spent around 6 months and a few hundred thousand dollars developing a product to the wrong target before it was discovered that a sales guy left the negative off an exponent. Im pretty sure I could actually see the steam coming out of the VP’s ears as the sales guy stammered something about not seeing it there.

[scoutingmom]

Another unit conversion error happened in Canada in the 80's.... the 'Gimli Glider'. A 767 airplane had to do an emergency landing in Gimli Manitoba at a closed down runway (being used as a racing strip!) Because it ran out of fuel about 1/2 the wa y to the destination. A lot of little things went wrong to cause the outcome, but the main problem was the incorrect conversion factors used to convert the volume to weight for the fuel needed. The plane needed it in metric but it was done in imperial.... although I believe there was a calculation error as well as the conversion error. (There was also equipment problems.)

 

Fortunately, the pilot was a skilled glider pilot as well as a comercial pilot and was able to land the plane fairly safely, although it was still a crash. Some injuries, but mostly from using the emergency exit chute (one did not reach the ground).

 

When my kids make an error with units I have been known to make comments about airplanes falling from the sky.....

 

Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

No one needs the test scores.  It's my eyes only.  But I'm torn between insisting he pay attention to the details and the idea that it's "good enough".

 

Here's what I do when this problem creeps back in (it tends to come and go).  I give one warning:  Problems without units will be marked wrong, and I won't tell you why it's marked wrong.  So yes, you'll have to do the entire problem again to figure out why it's marked wrong, even though it was only missing units.  

[Another Lynn]

Well, he nearly aced it today.  Missed one question because he didn't check his math properly, but he went through before he turned it in and made sure each problem was neatly labeled.

 

AND....

 

when I used the guide to check it, I noticed that NONE of the answers in the guide had units except one for square feet.  Everything else was given in just digits. :huh:

 

So I'm going to compromise here, I think, and keep insisting it is done in daily work but not make a big deal out of the tests just yet.  If he forgets he can go through and label it with me sitting there.

 

To me, the bolded is key.  If it becomes a habit in his daily work he will do it on the test without thinking about it.