Ethics question: Who is a 'home-schooler'?

[Tammi K]

Let's suppose, for the purposes of argument, your child does K-12 (  or Acellus, or Compass Learning)  independently.  You pay out of pocket, use the curriculum, and teach your child. At the end of high school, you create the transcript.

 

Let's suppose Suzie's kiddo uses K-12 (or Acellus, or Compass Learning, or any of the other resource providers that also offers an option to maintain grades)  through a cyber school. The state pays for it, she uses it to teach her child.  At the end of the day, the State or company  has created her transcript.

 

Which one of these children can apply to college as a 'home-schooler' or can both?  Neither child has ever stepped inside a b&m school and Mom has always done all the teaching.

 

Can both Moms equally claim to have 'homeschooled' their child?   Is the child who used a cyber-school ethically required to submit a transcript from the school as a 'public-schooler'.

 

Would you feel the same if both moms used eclectic curricula chosen for their child  from an assortment of sources but one still had a cyber or charter umbrella?

 

Consider that the reason for wanting to be a 'home-schooler' is because there are some colleges that look favorably upon kids educated at home.

 

I understand that post-secondary classes must follow a student but do you feel that a public school transcript must? 

[Shellydon]

If you use state funded curricula, you are not a homeschooler, you do public school at home. 

[Guinevere]

I think I'm rambling, and don't actually have an answer.

 

So, I'm trying again.

 

I think both homeschooled, but I don't know if one should have to include the transcript.  I can see it both ways.

Edited December 11, 2017 by Guinevere

[freesia]

We have a similar odd situation as we use an umbrella school that is considered a private school in the state it is in and says to list as a private school on apps. However the state we school in considers us only homeschoolers and doesn't recognize us as private schoolers.

 

We have found that every school we asked/ explained this to considered us homeschoolers. Those who wanted extra info from homeschoolers (course descriptions, for example ) required them from us. What mattered to them was he was schooled outside of a brick and mortar situation.

[Crimson Wife]

In my state, there is no such thing legally as a "home schooler". All students are either enrolled in private school (B&M, independent study program, or a single-family one) or public school (B&M, independent study, or virtual charter).

 

Students who are enrolled in a public school program for high school should submit a transcript from that program. Failing to do so would be unethical.

 

My high school student is legally in private school. For her dual-enrollment courses at the community college, she will have a transcript from the CC in addition to the transcript I create for her.

 

My middle schooler is legally in a cyber charter but he is unlikely to remain in it for high school. If he ends up applying to private high school, we would submit a transcript from the cyber school.

[snowbeltmom]

In my state, a student who uses an online program that is designed and paid for by the state is considered a public schooled student and is granted a state-issued diploma.  These students are not permitted to apply to colleges as a homeschooler.  Whether the student ever stepped foot in a brick and mortar public school is irrelevant.

[Arcadia]

Can both Moms equally claim to have 'homeschooled' their child? Is the child who used a cyber-school ethically required to submit a transcript from the school as a 'public-schooler'.

 

Would you feel the same if both moms used eclectic curricula chosen for their child from an assortment of sources but one still had a cyber or charter umbrella?

Let us say a child use a online public school like K12 Virtual Academy (paid by state) or a private online high school like Stanford Online High School for all their subjects and all four years (or at least 12th grade). How is the mother going to write the transcript? Is she going to write that the child did all the courses as a homeschooler and the mom is assigning the grades for the courses instead of K12 or Stanford OHS for example?

 

If it is something like Ocean Grove Charter School here where the student gets to use funds to pay for outsourced classes, then legally the child is a public school child and graduated from Ocean Grove Charter School.

 

How about any SAT or ACT or AP exam scores? Did the child registered as a homeschooler or took as a public school kid (as in what code did the child use for high school code)?

[Ailaena]

 

What I remember from college applications was that the schools kind of decided who they considered homeschoolers. we knew people who were enrolled in an online program, took the yearly state tests, and received issued a diploma by the state but still had to apply as homeschoolers to some schools while still being able to apply to state schools as a traditional schooler.

 

Did that make sense, at all? When in doubt, ask the school, right?

[Tammi K]

 These students are not permitted to apply to colleges as a homeschooler.  Whether the student ever stepped foot in a brick and mortar public school is irrelevant.

 

'Not permitted' by whom?

 

[Tammi K]

If you use state funded curricula, you are not a homeschooler, you do public school at home. 

 

So, you are basing your answer solely on who pays for the curriculum?

 

[EKS]

The cyber schooled student is a public school student.  But I'd ask the college(s) because in their statements about what homeschoolers should submit, they frequently seem to be indicating that they think virtual public school students are homeschoolers.

[poppy]

If the diploma comes from a public school , that child was not homeschooled . Nope.

[snowbeltmom]

'Not permitted' by whom?

 

These students don't fit the legal definition of a homeschooler.  If you apply to college as a homeschooler, the parents are responsible for creating the transcript and assigning the course letter grades.  A public school cyber student's parents do not have have these responsibilities since the public school issues the grades, creates and submits the transcript, and issues the diploma,

 

[snowbeltmom]

So, you are basing your answer solely on who pays for the curriculum?

 

They don't just pay for the curriculum, though. They determine the course content and graduation requirements. They also issue the grades, create the transcript, and issue the diploma.

 

[Tammi K]

These students don't fit the legal definition of a homeschooler.

 

Whose legal definition? IS there a  generally recognized 'legal definition' of a home-schooler?

 

I found this definition on USLegal.com:  "Homeschooling is the process of teaching one's children in the home instead of sending them to a school."  So, by that definition, both students would be home-schoolers.

 

 

eta: I hit post too soon.

Edited December 11, 2017 by Tammi K

[Plagefille]

In my state you can sign up with a charter school and receive state funds. As a High School students you can choose accredited classes and get a state diploma or you can use the funds to do classes as the parent sees fit and not receive a state diploma. Recently a mom in our charter who did the non-diploma option called several colleges and they all varied in whether they wanted her to apply as a homeschooler or public school. So, I would say it just depends on the college.

[snowbeltmom]

Whose legal definition? IS there a  generally recognized 'legal definition' of a home-schooler?

 

I found this definition on USLegal.com:  "Homeschooling is the process of teaching one's children in the home instead of sending them to a school."  So, by that definition, both students would be home-schoolers.

 

 

eta: I hit post too soon.

 

My state has a legal definition for a homeschooler.

 

[snowbeltmom]

 

Consider that the reason for wanting to be a 'home-schooler' is because there are some colleges that look favorably upon kids educated at home.

 

 

In my experience speaking with admissions officers, the reason adcoms look favorably upon homeschoolers is not because they have been educated at home.   A student who was enrolled in a state-run cyber school would not be viewed the same way as a traditional homeschooler, even if they both applied to college as a homeschooler.

[Tammi K]

If the diploma comes from a public school , that child was not homeschooled . Nope.

 

Even if the child has never stepped foot in any kind of classroom and all education has been directed and imparted by a parent?

[snowbeltmom]

Even if the child has never stepped foot in any kind of classroom and all education has been directed and imparted by a parent?

 

But if the student is enrolled in a public cyber school, the education has not been directed by the parent.  The public school is the entity that directs the education.  The setting doesn't matter.

 

[eternalsummer]

But if the student is enrolled in a public cyber school, the education has not been directed by the parent.  The public school is the entity that directs the education.  The setting doesn't matter.

 

 

Is the same true to an extent (I don't mean legally in your state, but sort of more generally, or logically) if say the parent used a boxed program for all the school years?  I have not used boxed curricula, but my impression is that you sign up with something like Sonlight or Abeka or whatever and they send you all the materials for all the subjects - I don't know if they go through high school, but let's assume they do.  Would that student be homeschooled, since another entity (the creator of the all-in-one curriculum) directs the education, and the parent just chooses the provider (much like choosing an online K12 type provider) and teaches the material?  

 

Does the answer differ if the parent pays for it or the state pays for it?  Do states with those charter things that give you $2k/year or whatever per kid pay for things like Sonlight?  If they do, and the parent just chooses that instead of an online option, is the child homeschooling or not?

 

Is the online-ness the difference?  Is it the fact that the parent is teaching?  If it is the latter, will my child be homeschooled if she takes all of her classes outsourced in HS, even if they are outsourced to different providers?  

 

If instead she took all courses through one outsourced provider, say PA Homeschoolers for the APs or something, would she be homeschooled?  I wouldn't be doing the teaching or grading, right?

[TechWife]

My state defines homeschooling:

 

 

North Carolina law defines a home school as a non public school consisting of the children of not more than two families or households, where the parents or legal guardians or members of either household determine the scope and sequence of the academic instruction, provide academic instruction, and determine additional sources of academic instruction. General Statute 115C-563(a) as amended changes the definition of a home school to allow parents to hire tutors, let their children participate in group settings where they receive instruction (co-ops, 4-H classroom instruction, etc.) and be instructed by an expert that is not a part of the household in the established homeschool (apprenticeships, a homeschool doctor teaching biology, etc.) This will allow homeschool parents more freedom to choose what is best for the education of their children.

[LMD]

Homeschooling is about who is responsible for the education. If you are enrolled as a public school student, then the public school system is ultimately responsible for the quality, delivery and assessment of the education. A homeschooler may choose the same resources, but the parent is responsible for the quality, delivery and assessment of that choice.

If I take my niece's school textbook list and go to a teacher supply store and buy all the grade level books, does that make my student a public school student?

[Corraleno]

Let's suppose, for the purposes of argument, your child does K-12 (  or Acellus, or Compass Learning)  independently.  You pay out of pocket, use the curriculum, and teach your child. At the end of high school, you create the transcript.

 

If the parent issues the transcript and diploma, the student is a homeschool graduate.

 

Let's suppose Suzie's kiddo uses K-12 (or Acellus, or Compass Learning, or any of the other resource providers that also offers an option to maintain grades)  through a cyber school. The state pays for it, she uses it to teach her child.  At the end of the day, the State or company has created her transcript.

If the transcript and diploma are issued by the school (and state-funded cyber schools are generally considered public schools), then the student is a graduate of that school, not a homeschool graduate. 

 

Can both Moms equally claim to have 'homeschooled' their child?   Is the child who used a cyber-school ethically required to submit a transcript from the school as a 'public-schooler'.

 

Would you feel the same if both moms used eclectic curricula chosen for their child  from an assortment of sources but one still had a cyber or charter umbrella?

 

Consider that the reason for wanting to be a 'home-schooler' is because there are some colleges that look favorably upon kids educated at home.

 

I understand that post-secondary classes must follow a student but do you feel that a public school transcript must?

I would consider it dishonest and unethical to lie on a college application — which is what a student would be doing by hiding an official state-accredited diploma and transcript, replacing it with one issued by the parent, and claiming to be a homeschooler in order to seem more desirable to colleges. Colleges would be well within their rights to withdraw an acceptance if the deceit were discovered. In fact, there was a very recent case where a student hid her official transcript from colleges and applied as a homeschooler, and when U Rochester discovered the fraud, she was immediately expelled. Even if someone is not bothered by the ethical issues, I would think the risk of having an acceptance revoked (or worse, being kicked out of college after enrolling) would far outweigh any possible advantage that might be gained by falsely applying as a homeschooler.

[eternalsummer]

It would be deceitful to take a transcript from an online provider where you got say a 2.8 GPA and replace it with a home-generated one where you got a 3.6 GPA, for sure.  I don't know how deceitful it is just to say, I am a homeschooler, I did all of my coursework through X provider, here is the transcript they provided of my grades.  

 

Similarly, if you take online classes through various providers who provide grades and then you change all of the grades for a home-generated transcript, I feel like that is deceitful (even though they may not provide a transcript to the colleges you apply to).  Changing one or another grade for some reason - only used the course for part of the work, or disagreed with some of the grading criteria or something - okay, fine.

 

But anyway, I'm not understanding why a school would prefer a student with a 25 ACT and 3.7 home-generated GPA to a student with a 25 ACT and 3.7 K12-generated GPA, given that they have the same courses listed in the transcript.  Are there really colleges that prefer homeschoolers for some ideological reason?

[GoodGrief]

Hi Tammi! You know that I understand your situation :-)

 

As far as college, both my older girls applied as students of their respective "schools" (one was statewide correspondence, one was local charter), but further clarified in the "other" section of the common app as to how their education played out in practice. The situation with the unique programs in our state CAN be confusing to colleges who aren't familiar with it, because the kids have a diploma, but the education itself has very little difference from traditional homeschooling.

 

I do think the differences have to be addressed somehow, because the transcripts we get with these programs look a little flaky sometimes. I can't remember if you share my frustrating experience with mislabeling of courses that would occur. I really did long to create my own ACCURATE transcript, and it was super-frustrating to have a teacher who didn't really know my child (and wasn't even very familiar with the college app process) filling out the guidance counselor info.

 

Homeschooling methods could also be addressed in essays and/or interview, but I don't believe either of mine touched on it in the essays for the most part. It certainly came up in interviews. One wanted to downplay the homeschooling angle, probably to her detriment ;-)

 

As far as whether one can ethically call oneself a homeschooler...boy, did that come up ad nauseum on the old school homeschooling e mail listservs in the early days of our state homeschooling programs. People seems to be over it for the most part now, some 20 years later, as we have managed to maintain the independent homeschooling option, despite the existence of the "public homeschool" options. Certainly our kids are not in a building based program, and there is no one but us parents ultimately directing the education.

Edited December 11, 2017 by GoodGrief

[Tammi K]

Thanks everyone for input and ideas.  The situation stemmed from a recent discussion about who is and who isn't a homeschooler.    In my youngest child's case, the school he is most interested in handles both types of students in the same way. All applicant are encouraged to educate beyond the classroom so the application allows for explanation of academic methodology from everyone.  So, it isn't an issue for us.

 

However, there was a recent discussion about 'ignoring the umbrella aspect and just applying as a home-schooler.'  And, I was wondering about the broader thoughts of making a choice one way of the other.

 

The biggest contention was defining the term home-schooler. It's not as obvious as it seems.

 

Lots of interesting thoughts here.

[Tammi K]

If you use state funded curricula, you are not a homeschooler, you do public school at home. 

 

Hmmmm, if the parent makes all the curriculum choices and does all of the teaching, that is vastly different than replicating a 'public school' curriculum/situation.   Can you further explain how you see it?

 

 

 

edit- spelling

Edited December 11, 2017 by Tammi K

[Corraleno]

Is the same true to an extent (I don't mean legally in your state, but sort of more generally, or logically) if say the parent used a boxed program for all the school years?  I have not used boxed curricula, but my impression is that you sign up with something like Sonlight or Abeka or whatever and they send you all the materials for all the subjects - I don't know if they go through high school, but let's assume they do.  Would that student be homeschooled, since another entity (the creator of the all-in-one curriculum) directs the education, and the parent just chooses the provider (much like choosing an online K12 type provider) and teaches the material?  

 

Does the answer differ if the parent pays for it or the state pays for it?  Do states with those charter things that give you $2k/year or whatever per kid pay for things like Sonlight?  If they do, and the parent just chooses that instead of an online option, is the child homeschooling or not?

 

Is the online-ness the difference?  Is it the fact that the parent is teaching?  If it is the latter, will my child be homeschooled if she takes all of her classes outsourced in HS, even if they are outsourced to different providers?  

 

If instead she took all courses through one outsourced provider, say PA Homeschoolers for the APs or something, would she be homeschooled?  I wouldn't be doing the teaching or grading, right?

It's not about who pays for it (after all parents, not the state, pay for private school), or whether it's online, or who publishes the books, or even who designs the lesson plans; what determines whether a student is homeschooled or public/private/charter/cyber-schooled is who sets the graduation requirements (and the acceptable means of meeting those requirements) and who issues the transcript and diploma. The person or entity issuing the diploma is attesting to the validity of the grades and certifying that the student met their standards for graduation. If school administrators are the ones validating the grades and certifying the diploma, then the student is a graduate of that school. If the parent is the one signing the diploma and transcript, then the student is a homeschool graduate.

[Tammi K]

If the diploma comes from a public school , that child was not homeschooled . Nope.

 

So, see if  I am  understanding you correctly - You feel that a child who has never gone to school,  has only been taught by Mom, has only had curriculum chosen by mom, and has never had any one other than mom present material,  the child is not home-schooled.   Your definition has to do solely with the issuance of the diploma and not at all with how the child was educated.

 

(Not trying to nit-pick. Just making sure I understand)

 

[Tammi K]

Edit: Ack, tried to quote but somehow I screwed it up. :cursing:

Edited December 11, 2017 by Tammi K

[Corraleno]

Hmmmm, if the parent makes all the curriculum choices and does all of the teaching, that is vastly different than replicating a 'public school' curriculum/situation.   Can you further explain how you see it?

Usually a student must be legally enrolled as a public schooler in order to access those funds, or to access resources like K12 for free. If students are enrolled in public school, then legally they are public schoolers, even if what they are doing looks a lot like homeschooling.

 

I happen to live in a state (or at least in a region of a state) with a charter that's super friendly to homeschoolers. I actually tried it out last year for 8th grade with DD, because I was tempted by the fact that if you enroll with them for HS, they will cover 100% of tuition for full time CC in 11th and 12th grades. They were very flexible and allowed me to do pretty much whatever I wanted, including mixing various coop classes with relaxed/eclectic homemade classes. DD and I just had to each check in once a week, with a report on what we were doing, and we met with the teacher at the end of each quarter to look at work samples and discuss where we were at. They took whatever grades I submitted without question and put them on her transcript. There was literally no difference between what we did when she was enrolled with this charter and what we did for 7th, or what we are doing for 9th, other than the weekly reporting, portfolio meetings, and standardized testing.

 

In casual conversation with someone in the checkout line at Costco, I might say she was homeschooled if someone asked why she wasn't in class. But legally she was a public school student, enrolled in XYZ Charter School. For various reasons, I decided not to continue with them this year, but if we had stayed with them through high school, DD would have applied to colleges as a graduate of XYZ Charter School, with a transcript and diploma signed by the administrators there, even though the actual coursework would have been almost entirely "homeschooled" (or DE'd).

[Corraleno]

The biggest contention was defining the term home-schooler. It's not as obvious as it seems.

In both of the states where I've homeschooled, we had to register as homeschoolers. Students cannot be simultaneously registered as both homeschoolers and public school students, so legally they are whatever they are registered as. Last year DD was a public school student, even though she has never stepped foot in a public school; this year she is a homeschooler again. The work she's doing is not really any different, but her status is different according to state records.

[Tammi K]

 In casual conversation with someone in the checkout line at Costco, I might say she was homeschooled if someone asked why she wasn't in class. But legally she was a public school student, enrolled in XYZ Charter School. For various reasons, I decided not to continue with them this year, but if we had stayed with them through high school, DD would have applied to colleges as a graduate of XYZ Charter School, with a transcript and diploma signed by the administrators there, even though the actual coursework would have been almost entirely "homeschooled" (or DE'd).

 

Thanks. I like that distinction.

 

[Carrie12345]

I don't see this as an ethics questions, just a logistical and legal one. Legally, a child enrolled in public school full time is not a homeschooler.  They do not need to adhere to homeschool regulations. They are required to follow public school regulations.  The state/district is "responsible" for providing their education as dictated by regulations, including providing accurate transcripts.

 

In social situations, I don't much care what anybody calls themselves. We have a lot of cyber (charter and independent) students in our co-ops. I still call them homeschool co-ops.  NBD. The only thing I worry about is when people misrepresent (unintentionally or intentionally) the requirements on either end, because it can really screw up people who trust what others say.

 

When applying for college, it would seem to me that the legal definition should be used.

[Corraleno]

So, see if  I am  understanding you correctly - You feel that a child who has never gone to school,  has only been taught by Mom, has only had curriculum chosen by mom, and has never had any one other than mom present material,  the child is not home-schooled.   Your definition has to do solely with the issuance of the diploma and not at all with how the child was educated.

 

(Not trying to nit-pick. Just making sure I understand)

 

I think people were specifically responding to the part of the OP about applying to college, so replies focused on the legal definition rather than on how people self-identify in everyday life. I would assume that a student in the above scenario would feel like a homeschooler, and probably identify as a homeschooler, even though technically enrolled in PS.

 

I don't see this as an ethics questions, just a logistical and legal one. Legally, a child enrolled in public school full time is not a homeschooler.  They do not need to adhere to homeschool regulations. They are required to follow public school regulations.  The state/district is "responsible" for providing their education as dictated by regulations, including providing accurate transcripts.

 

In social situations, I don't much care what anybody calls themselves. We have a lot of cyber (charter and independent) students in our co-ops. I still call them homeschool co-ops.  NBD. The only thing I worry about is when people misrepresent (unintentionally or intentionally) the requirements on either end, because it can really screw up people who trust what others say.

 

When applying for college, it would seem to me that the legal definition should be used.

 

This is an excellent summary. In every day conversation or activities, people can identify as whatever they want (and my DD certainly never felt like a "public schooler" last year, even though she was technically enrolled in a PS, because she was still doing all the same things she did the year before as a homeschooler, including co-op classes). But on something like a college application the legal definition takes precedence, and the student can expand on the actual nuts and bolts of their education somewhere else in the application.

[freesia]

But there isn't a national definition of homeschoolers, so it gets tricky. Is my ds a private school student ( bc he's enrolled in a private school in TN) or a homeschooler (bc NY doesn't recognize any distance school at all and considers us homeschoolers even though his grad requirements and diploma will be from a private school)?

 

We are in some kinda of middle limbo, so I wrote a letter explaining it all and send the extra info they would require of homeschoolers.

 

But we don't fit any of your explanations because we cross state lines.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I don't particularly care.  I'd be ok with the second scenario claiming to be a homeschooler.  They did do their school at home and even if it was funded by the public, it's still quite different than being in a B&M school I think.

 

My state does not ever pay for cyber schools and does not recognize diplomas earned from them. 

Edited December 11, 2017 by SparklyUnicorn

[regentrude]

I don't see this as an ethics question, and see it as a sliding scale. 

 

I don't see how it matters who pays, if the parent are not actually doing the educating in either case. Whether you pay for the online school and the school does the teaching and grading, or somebody else pays for the online school and the school does the teaching and grading has the same outcome. If the parents' sole responsibility is to put the grades on a piece of paper, but they have not actually educated their kid, it's exactly the same to me.

 

What about parents who outsource highschool to DE? Are they "homeschoolers"? Does it depend on how many hours the kid takes? Would you make a difference whether the kid takes in seat or online classes?

 

I think this opens more cans of worms...

 

[Bluegoat]

I also don't think it's ethical, really.

 

It's a matter of what you are trying to capture.  For a university, they are interested in certain features of homeschooled learners, so IMO they set their own requirements.

 

In general, I don't think money matters - there are places where homeschool families get government funding like the schools.  I don't think it matters if the curriculum is put together by some private company, the parent, or a government body.  I don't think it really matters who issues the transcript - again, there are places where homeschooled kids get public transcripts at the end.

 

I think in general, the two things that I think are most essential are the parent is the main teacher.  For example, if parents set up a program but hired a tutor to teach it all, I'd tend to call that private education, not homeschooling.  An online program where the parent does very little that a public or private school parent wouldn't, or even some co-ops I've heard of, to me are crossing into private education more than homeschooling.  

 

If I think about kids in the past doing public school remotely because they live in a far off place, but the parent does most of the actual teaching - people might not call that homeschool, but even though it's pretty much in the hands of the ps in terms of it being their gig, I think it actually is much more like homeschooling than some online program where the parents aren't that involved.

[wendyroo]

It's not about who pays for it (after all parents, not the state, pay for private school), or whether it's online, or who publishes the books, or even who designs the lesson plans; what determines whether a student is homeschooled or public/private/charter/cyber-schooled is who sets the graduation requirements (and the acceptable means of meeting those requirements) and who issues the transcript and diploma. The person or entity issuing the diploma is attesting to the validity of the grades and certifying that the student met their standards for graduation. If school administrators are the ones validating the grades and certifying the diploma, then the student is a graduate of that school. If the parent is the one signing the diploma and transcript, then the student is a homeschool graduate.

 

:iagree:

 

If a parent decides to enroll a homeschooled child in all K12 classes (and pays for them out of pocket), but decides that their kid doesn't need any math in high school...well, okey-dokey then.  K12 won't care if you are just buying individual classes, and the parent is certainly allowed to write up a high school transcript that simply doesn't include any math and still graduate their child.

 

OTOH, if a child is using K12 through the public school, then a math-less high school transcript simply will not be allowed.  Math is a graduation requirement, and the public school will not issue a transcript without math.

 

That is what I see as the defining difference (in the high school years) between homeschoolers and public/private/charter schoolers.  If the parent is determining graduation requirements (even if all classes are outsourced), then the child is homeschooled.  If an outside entity is determining graduation requirements (even if the parent is doing all of the teaching at home) then the child is 'outside entity'-schooled.

 

Wendy

[Crimson Wife]

Whose legal definition? IS there a generally recognized 'legal definition' of a home-schooler?

 

I found this definition on USLegal.com: "Homeschooling is the process of teaching one's children in the home instead of sending them to a school." So, by that definition, both students would be home-schoolers.

 

 

eta: I hit post too soon.

States generally have a legal definition of “Homeschooling†unless they are like mine and classify homeschoolers as either private or public

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Scarlett]

The cyber schooled student is a public school student. But I'd ask the college(s) because in their statements about what homeschoolers should submit, they frequently seem to be indicating that they think virtual public school students are homeschoolers.

This was my experience with Vo tec. I told them my boys both use a public school virtual charter but they basically said, 'oh, well we still call them homeschoolers'

[Junie]

I think there is a difference between being a homeschooler and a homeschool graduate.

 

Our church has a private school that we could have used as our umbrella.  I could have mostly done exactly what I'm doing, but under the umbrella I would have had to follow their graduation requirements.  In exchange, my children would have received a diploma from their school.  They would have been homeschoolers, but not homeschool graduates.

[poppy]

I think this umbrella school is encouraging parents to act in an unethical way that is harmful to homeschoolers.  

 

I know it's common and will become more common as time moves forward.  Nothing we can do about it.

 

So, see if  I am  understanding you correctly - You feel that a child who has never gone to school,  has only been taught by Mom, has only had curriculum chosen by mom, and has never had any one other than mom present material,  the child is not home-schooled.   Your definition has to do solely with the issuance of the diploma and not at all with how the child was educated.

 

(Not trying to nit-pick. Just making sure I understand)
 

 

I'm honestly not familiar with the state provided transcripts of homeschooled children. Presumably the point of using approved providers is to have the child take tests and hit markers that provide progress reports to an outside authority?    Or can mom make up any grade she wants and then get a state stamp of approval? 

 

 

[vonfirmath]

The parents are always responsible for the education, whether they choose to contract that out or diy. 

 

Thank you. This is where I stand. The parents are always responsible for the education of their student. It's how my dad acted and what he taught my sister and I. (For example moving the whole family to keep us out of a school he did not want us attending when homeschooling was not an option due to work) What that looks like can vary from family to family and even year to year and true, some parents do not take their responsibility seriously, but it does not mean it is not their responsibility anyway.

[2ndGenHomeschooler]

My DH did Abeka video school from 5th-12th grades. He watched the videos, completed assignments determined by the school, his work was sent in to be graded, and he has a diploma and transcripts issued by Abeka Academy. His parents paid for it, made sure he completed the work, helped with assignments where they could and arranged for tutors where they couldn’t. On employment applications he says he was homeschooled and provides copies of the diploma and transcripts Abeka Academy provided him. There hasn’t been any issues with this and has avoided the confusion of how he could manage to graduate from a a school in FL while living 2,000 miles away. He explains further if needed. I don’t consider this unethical, not really true homeschooling IMO but not dishonest. He’s not hiding anything. Now if he were to submit parent issued transcripts and diploma instead, especially if the grades or courses were different, I would consider that dishonest and unethical.

[3 ladybugs]

In OP example to me neither are homeschooled. One is private school educated at home, the other is public school educated at home. 

 

To me this does make a difference. When DH and I were dating this actually came up in our first date. We were concerned because we didn't want to get in trouble for educating our child. DH told me that his brother was "homeschooled" using Kolbe and that if anyone asked, he was private school student at home. Now my MIL educated him. All the materials for his education came from Kolbe Academy. 

 

To me a homeschooler is anyone that teaches independently from any school for all or part of the education of a child. So I wouldn't say to the part time K12 parent that they don't homeschool. However I would say that about someone who uses Calvert or programs like that. 

 

I think for the purposes of college, they are looking for children that have been taught in a program catering to their needs as an individual. You can't have that if you relay on just one program or school. At least I have yet to find a private school that allows for that at all ages. 

[catz]

In our state, it is crystal clear.  You either register as a homeschooler and fulfill those obligations and take full responsibility (and jump through a couple hoops required).  Or you are registered with an online school, charter, public school, etc and are required to jump through their hoops.  I do think if the transcript is 100% issued by another organization, you are not really a homeschooler.  My junior is part time dual enrolled, so his transcript is a mix of outside classes (including other online providers) and home directed stuff at this point.  But a lot of homeschoolers at this point here do full time dual enroll for the last 2 years of high school.  The sequencing doesn't quite work for my kid to do that - he'd have to step back in math and Spanish for instance and is spending a lot of time on music and performance (which he is thinking of majoring in for college). 

Edited December 11, 2017 by WoolySocks

[mschickie]

In NYS there is no publicly funded school at home program so the distinction is fairly easy.  You either go to a brick and mortar school or you are homeschooled and follow those regulations.

 

To me the difference is not so much as to where the curriculum comes from as to who controls the educational plan or goals.  If a student is doing a school at home program  that is directed by the state and has deadlines to meet by the state program then they are not homeschooled.  A student using the same program but where the parents can say I choose to use this subject, all subjects or I do not like the way this is going so we are going to stop using it and do something else that is a homeschooler.  The parents direct the education and can choose what grade level, what courses and how the work is done.