Deciding what is fair.

[Rachel]

Ok, you have a lot of little kids and you are pregnant, life is hard when you are in that season. Give yourself a little grace. I promise things get easier as kids become more self sufficient.

 

Does the 2 year old nap? Will she sit in a high chair? Do the 4 and 2 year old play well together? In other words can she be occupied for an hour while you do school work with the 6 year old?

 

If sounds like your husband does help around the house, just maybe not in the way that would be most helpful to you. Do you communicate well? Can you tell him that you need help at least 1-2 hours per day and an afternoon each weekend? Would he be willing to take the kids to breakfast one Saturday a month so you can sleep in? Or would he be open to a compromise of some sort? Maybe taking the 4 & 6 year old to run errands on the weekends so you get a break?

 

I’m just throwing out some ideas. My husband travels quite a bit so I frequently feel like I’m single parentling but we have worked out ways that I get some time alone when he is home. Some times it’s just him working in the garage while the kids play outside. Other times he’ll take them to visit his parents or to McDonalds for lunch.

 

I agree about getting a dishwasher, that will help, they even make portable ones!

[Frances]

I just have to speak up, as a low-40-something married to a high-40-something (age): You young people who suggest that daddy time should come out of workout hours, you should know that you are giving very bad advice.

 

The people who are healthy - a healthy weight, non-diabetic, with normal blood pressure, and not having strokes and heart attacks in their forties and fifties - are NOT the people who sat in cars for long commutes and worked eleven hours and went to bed at 2 am with no exercise.

 

Family balance does not come from making adults feel selfish for exercising! This family has a dozen things to try before that.

While I agree that exercise is a great thing, he doesn't need to necessarily do it alone everyday after work. He has two days on the weekend. He could also possibly combine working out while being with at least some of the children some mornings before work. Plus, for all we know, his job is very physically active. And if it is sedentary, can he eat while working and use his dinner break to exercise? There are other options besides staying an extra hour after work several times per week.

 

And just to clarify because it has been confusing, I believe he's working for nine (while getting paid for eight) and commuting for two. But I may be wrong about that.

[eternalsummer]

I forgot that he was a correctional officer.  Jeez, that's a tough road.  One of the hardest and most thankless jobs there is.  Not a lot of hero-worship like we have with cops and military, but 2-3x the rate of PTSD in the military, 2x the cop suicide rate, just a very hard job.  

 

I know he's only got 12 years left until retirement and this is the best option in your area, but boy that's a long 12 years.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

While I agree that exercise is a great thing, he doesn't need to necessarily do it alone everyday after work. He has two days on the weekend. He could also possibly combine working out while being with at least some of the children some mornings before work. Plus, for all we know, his job is very physically active. And if it is sedentary, can he eat while working and use his dinner break to exercise? There are other options besides staying an extra hour after work several times per week.

 

And just to clarify because it has been confusing, I believe he's working for nine (while getting paid for eight) and commuting for two. But I may be wrong about that.

People need to exercise when they will do it.

 

He's got several factors to his workout situation - transition after second shift, downtime with coworkers, detox from a stressful or unpleasant job.

 

That is all important. Without that release, both social and physical, he probably can't just flip a switch and sleep instantly, anyway. 2nd shift screws up a person's circadian rhythm.

 

Again, a dozen other places to start, and the OP has a lot of options which have been mentioned - from public school and daycare to not feeling like she should wait on her dh to insisting on meeting some of her own *needs*, too.

[Frances]

People need to exercise when they will do it.

 

He's got several factors to his workout situation - transition after second shift, downtime with coworkers, detox from a stressful or unpleasant job.

 

That is all important. Without that release, both social and physical, he probably can't just flip a switch and sleep instantly, anyway. 2nd shift screws up a person's circadian rhythm.

 

Again, a dozen other places to start, and the OP has a lot of options which have been mentioned - from public school and daycare to not feeling like she should wait on her dh to insisting on meeting some of her own *needs*, too.

Again, not necessarily disagreeing, but it sounds like her husband is doing everything when he will do it, not just exercising. And I'm actually surprised he can fall asleep quickly when he gets home after finishing exercising just one hour previously. I know when my husband started his current swing shift job it was hard for him to unwind immediately, and he has basically no commute. But he fairly quickly developed a wind down routine and can now be asleep within half an hour after his shift ends. For both him and me, exercising and showering late at night would be waking us up, not putting us to sleep. But maybe we are unusual.

 

And if he is working in a prison, then his job may be like my husband's hospital one and that it is fairly physically active and high stress. He exercises before work (although not on every work day) and on days off.

[Ausmumof3]

I just have to speak up, as a low-40-something married to a high-40-something (age): You young people who suggest that daddy time should come out of workout hours, you should know that you are giving very bad advice.

 

The people who are healthy - a healthy weight, non-diabetic, with normal blood pressure, and not having strokes and heart attacks in their forties and fifties - are NOT the people who sat in cars for long commutes and worked eleven hours and went to bed at 2 am with no exercise.

 

Family balance does not come from making adults feel selfish for exercising! This family has a dozen things to try before that.

See I know people that have maintained health by Dad playing cricket and footy with the kids for an hour after work each night. It's only after the kids grew up that the slide happened. Gym workouts are good in terms of payment increases motivation but there are plenty of ways the whole family can exercise together.

[StephanieZ]

Well, how much sleep can/do you get each night?

 

How much sleep does your dh need to be reasonably rested and healthy? 

 

In my ideal world, everyone gets 8-10 hours of sleep. Unfortunately, I rarely live in my ideal world.

 

My dh typically gets 6 hours or so if he's lucky. He gets up around 6 and on average, he gets to sleep around 12 if we're in a good sleep routine. When life is bonkers, he may get by with 5 hours or so for many a night. He can often get 7-9 hours the 2 or 3 mornings a week that he doesn't work in the morning. 

 

So, if your dh can get by OK on 6 hours, I'd say he could be up by 9 and helping by 10, if he's going to sleep at 3. 

 

If your life is so nuts at this point that you can't get 6 hours of sleep most days, then I could imagine trimming his sleep to 5 hours, especially if he can sleep longer on the weekends. Also, I'd be considering that it's his choice to take the slow hour when he wakes up. 

 

If at all feasible, I do think it's healthier for everyone to get 6+ hours every night, 7+ if possible.

 

 

 

 

[amy g.]

My husband traveled for work when my older kids were little.

 

I had to structure my life as if I was a single parent. Plenty of things fell by the wayside. Other things were compromised. Everyone grew up, got educated and independent just fine.

 

For me, personally, I prioritize good sleep and exercise over a clean house and 2 hours of school work for a first grader.

 

It is a season. It is hectic and messy and chaotic. Then it is over.

[Garga]

I just have to speak up, as a low-40-something married to a high-40-something (age): You young people who suggest that daddy time should come out of workout hours, you should know that you are giving very bad advice.

 

The people who are healthy - a healthy weight, non-diabetic, with normal blood pressure, and not having strokes and heart attacks in their forties and fifties - are NOT the people who sat in cars for long commutes and worked eleven hours and went to bed at 2 am with no exercise.

 

Family balance does not come from making adults feel selfish for exercising! This family has a dozen things to try before that.

 

Exercise is vital.  It just is.  A lot of us don't get it and then we talk about how Americans are fat with heart issues and all the other plethora of issues we have related to lack of exercise.  Exercise isn't some sort of hobby or like going out to the movies.  It's a biological need, else we die early and we have pain and suffering too young.

 

Getting exercise with kids is only going to work so-so.  I would try to go on walks with the kids, and it's about impossible to do enough to get ones heart rate really pumping or to have a chance to lift weights to built muscle with a 2 year old tagging along.

 

 

Again, not necessarily disagreeing, but it sounds like her husband is doing everything when he will do it, not just exercising. And I'm actually surprised he can fall asleep quickly when he gets home after finishing exercising just one hour previously. I know when my husband started his current swing shift job it was hard for him to unwind immediately, and he has basically no commute. But he fairly quickly developed a wind down routine and can now be asleep within half an hour after his shift ends. For both him and me, exercising and showering late at night would be waking us up, not putting us to sleep. But maybe we are unusual.

 

And if he is working in a prison, then his job may be like my husband's hospital one and that it is fairly physically active and high stress. He exercises before work (although not on every work day) and on days off.

 

Granted, I was younger--a lot younger, but I used to work a job that cycled between days, mids, and nights.  One week on days, next week on mids, next week on nights, then back to days.  And when I worked mids (2nd shift), I could fall asleep within a few minutes of getting home.  Some of my coworkers couldn't, but I could.  Each person is different.  A strong bedtime routine can help lull a person to sleep.  

 

For some people, they do best if the exercise before bed.  They go right to sleep.  For others, exercise will wake them up and they can't sleep.  It's individual.  The OP's husband could go either way on both those issues.

 

Well, how much sleep can/do you get each night?

 

How much sleep does your dh need to be reasonably rested and healthy? 

 

In my ideal world, everyone gets 8-10 hours of sleep. Unfortunately, I rarely live in my ideal world.

 

My dh typically gets 6 hours or so if he's lucky. He gets up around 6 and on average, he gets to sleep around 12 if we're in a good sleep routine. When life is bonkers, he may get by with 5 hours or so for many a night. He can often get 7-9 hours the 2 or 3 mornings a week that he doesn't work in the morning. 

 

So, if your dh can get by OK on 6 hours, I'd say he could be up by 9 and helping by 10, if he's going to sleep at 3. 

 

If your life is so nuts at this point that you can't get 6 hours of sleep most days, then I could imagine trimming his sleep to 5 hours, especially if he can sleep longer on the weekends. Also, I'd be considering that it's his choice to take the slow hour when he wakes up. 

 

If at all feasible, I do think it's healthier for everyone to get 6+ hours every night, 7+ if possible.

 

I vehemently disagree with telling people to get less sleep. Five or six hours a night, consistently, for years, is awful and will cause health issues long term.   Almost no one naturally needs that tiny amount.  People "get by" on that, but they don't really.  When they're studied, they have all sorts of issues from sleep, but think they're "getting by."  They're not. 

 

I've been a champion for sleep for 27 years ever since I worked that job that cycled through all the shifts each week.  I started learning about sleep then and have enjoyed reading anything I could about it ever since. 

 

The latest thing I heard was about the fact that sleep is a need, as strong of a need as food and water.  We in America like to pretend it isn't.  It's a cultural thing to deny ourselves sleep.  But it's a terrible thing to do to yourself.  It's like going on a starvation diet and then being proud of how skinny you are.  It's not healthy and it leads to all sorts of problems--depression, stroke, obesity, Alzheimers (there's a strong link that not getting sleep is directly related to Alzheimers.).  If you believe in either evolution or creation, then you know that most creatures have evolved or were created to be the most streamlined as possible.  No extra frills.  And we need 8 hours.  We need to spend 1/3 of our lives in sleep.  That's as streamlined as evolution/God got us down to.  It's a HUGE need.  One-third of our lives is spent in sleep.  

 

We play around with it and deny it to ourselves at our peril, rather like a person with anorexia plays around with denying themselves food.  And all we have to do is look at all the medical and mental issues related to lack of sleep and it should be obvious that getting tiny amounts of sleep is ludicrous.  But our culture has this bizarre view on sleep as if it's some whim or indulgence.

 

OP--I know you're not getting enough sleep, as you've said.  But I don't believe the answer is to tell someone else not to sleep either.  

 

I'm not saying I know the answers, and your DH shouldn't be oversleeping.  He needs to figure out how much he needs (usually between 7-9 hours for most people) and get that amount, and then get up and moving as quickly as he can.  Perhaps he can cut back his grunt hour to a grunt 45 minutes.  He has to brush his teeth, shower, and dress anyway.  He can be doing that in silence for 45 minutes and then be ready to face everyone.

Edited December 9, 2017 by Garga

[EMS83]

YES Freesia - my dh took on all the grocery shopping when #4 was born! He often does it on the way home from work...

 

I do like this, but I've personally forbidden DH from grocery shopping, ever.  He'd kill my budget.   :laugh:

[Elizabeth86]

OP, I was reading through the thread again. And, please correct me if I am wrong, but your spouse is a correctional officer right? I seem to remember that from the thread about safety of prisons.

 

My DH was a prison guard for 10 yrs. I see much of what you describe in your DH in the way my DH was. From the smokes, to the "he sees his job as easy" to the "can't get anything better with only his hs diploma."

 

Now I don't know the specific details of your area. But....I encouraged my DH to do...to BE more. I KNEW my Dh was better than the image he projected. He didn't. I basically.....demanded better. Not in a "if you love me you will change" kind of way but in a "if you want to be my partner, this is what I need in a partner" kind of way.

 

After we got married, DH quit smoking. Like, chain smoking the last pack as we were waiting to get off the cruise ship on our honeymoon. About 7 months later, he quit working at the prison (due to the fact that they couldn't/wouldn't work with him around a school schedule.) he took a job doing customer service over the phone. He actually did make more, and no degree necessary. But, let me tell you what happened when he quit. He cussed less. He smiled more. He was less irritable. He was less passive agressive. It was kind of amazing to see the difference.

 

He went to school. It took a long time-9yrs. It was hard. He had to retake several classes. We incurred a lot of debt. We endured a lot of STUFF. But he finished. And now, he's a mechanical engineer. He's making more on his own than we ever did when we were both working. And he will OFTEN say, he never knew any of this was possible.

 

I am saying this to suggest, that perhaps, long term, you need to think about guiding him in a direction that is better for your family overall. If he's a good man, than he can probably do better than he's doing today.

Yed, but don't you think the idea of being retired at 48 is an amazing idea and worth hanging on for 12 more years. Plus the more senority gets, the easier his posts can become.

[freesia]

Yed, but don't you think the idea of being retired at 48 is an amazing idea and worth hanging on for 12 more years. Plus the more senority gets, the easier his posts can become.

 

Not really, particularly if he hates his job.  He'll probably need/want to get a job anyway after that.  All the military/State dept. peeps I know who retired in their 40s did. 

 

I would rather he find something he likes and stay busy and happy and productive until he is older.

 

[Carol in Cal.]

Win some, lose some.  DH has killed our budget with his shopping.  At some point when we were nutsy busy I decided that it was worth it.

I do steer him to stores that sell with good prices for some of our stuff, like Costco.

And if he does the Big Shopping rather than me, I hand him coupons to use.

But I know if I were doing it I'd be all over that price book, and that I am much more likely to notice two for ones for things we buy often and take advantage of them on the fly.  But I can't do everything, and it's something he can do, and so I let that budget relax a bit. 

 

 

I do like this, but I've personally forbidden DH from grocery shopping, ever.  He'd kill my budget.   :laugh:

 

[lauraw4321]

DH and I are not financially dependent on each other (we run a business together, but either of us could support ourselves on our own) but we also don't believe in divorce separate of major fault (abandonment, infertility, adultery, abuse). She may be saying that her DH knows she won't divorce him because she or they as a couple believe in the necessary permanency of marriage.

 

eta: that is to say, she didn't say her DH knew she couldn't divorce him, but that she wouldn't.

I wouldn’t divorce either, barring hose circumatances. By I would live separately if it came to it. And I agree about women having their own money.

[freesia]

Actually dh shopping solved a budget issue we had had.  Before he took it over he had all these ideas of how to buy and how his method would save us money (it was all in good fun jesting, not a serious argument) So he got his chance and duh duh duh duh--there was no change in what we spent using this *superior* method.  It still makes me chuckle.  Also, he can take a really short list and be gone for the most incredible amount of time.  It was inconceivable to me how it could take so long, but as long as he had the toddler and/or pre-schoolers I was just as happy.  Now, how he could stand spending so long shopping with a toddler I will never know.  Points to him for patience.

 

I would still send him even if it was hard on our budget, though.  I just cannot imagine when I'd shop nowadays except maybe at night (ack!)

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Yed, but don't you think the idea of being retired at 48 is an amazing idea and worth hanging on for 12 more years. Plus the more senority gets, the easier his posts can become.

12 years is by far the lions share of all your kids' childhoods.

[Joker]

If he's a corrections officer, I would think the last thing you would want is for him to be sleep deprived and not at his best for work.

 

I would start by reevaluating what truly needs to be done in this season of your life and I would be flexible on when it needs to happen as well. I would also just let dh know he's responsible for his lunch and completely let it go. He's a grown man and can figure it out.

[ksr5377]

OK, so I didn't read all of the replies but I wanted to let you know about my parents as an example.  They both worked, my mom day shift and my dad afternoons.  Always afternoons!  He would get off work at 11pm, be home by midnight.  He would eat something while watching the end of The Letterman Show and then go to bed.  In the mornings my mom would wake all of us up for school, so she was usually up by 5:30. My dad would be up by 6:30am at the very latest to help us get on the bus and to see us!  After we were all out of the house I am not certain as to what his exact schedule was, but I do know he usually did a load or two of laundry and did all of the dishes left over from dinner the night before.  We didn't have a dishwasher either.  I see no reason for your DH to not be capable of being up by 10am and making lunch for everyone at noon.  As for working out, does the gym have childcare?  Could he take the toddler for a run in a jogging stroller?  To me the workout after work is what's moving his sleep schedule to more of a night-shift situation instead of afternoons.

Edited December 9, 2017 by ksr5377

[fairfarmhand]

He's s ok with the kids. We have library storytime for an hour 3 x a week for the two littles at 10 am. If he could take them I would be beyond thrilled.

I've found that my dh does so much better when I ask politely for something specific. Story time is concrete. He probably won't zone out and suddenly you find the toddler attached to your leg while you're teaching subtraction. I'd start with story time. Also, forget about his lunches. When you prepare supper for your family, set his portion aside in a sectioned plate with a lid and poof, there's tomorrow's lunch.

 

It sounds like you're in a really hard place. My kids are those ages, and while I'm not pregnant, this is the first time in 7 years that I haven't felt exhausted. Other people may recover from the pregnancy/baby stage quickly, but for me it takes a good couple years, at which point, until now, I've been on the verge of giving birth yet again. I think some commenters who are surprised at how burned-out you feel haven't experienced relative back-to-back births (I say relative because I know people who have a much faster turn-around time. There are a lot of factors involved, but the point is that YOU are burned-out).

 

It sounds like you have some traditionalist views. So do I. As one traditionalist to another (and other posters, if you're not, please butt out. I'm talking to Elizabeth and I'm not going to argue my points with you), let me tell you this: a real hierarchy (not a faux macho-man one) is actually more of an inverse pyramid of SERVITUDE. The person at the top is everyone else's servant. The hierarchy exists not so that wifey can make a sandwich whenever he feels like, it exists to serve the weakest and most helpless: the children. You, the mother, the nurturer, serve them. His job is to serve you to make your work possible. You are not everyone's servant. I wonder if you're burned out because you're the one taking on all these roles of servitude.

 

Christian Content coming up:

 

A proper king is at the front of the battle lines, not sitting around in leisurely splendor. A priest isn't just some figurehead in charge of ceremonies; he is down on the ground serving his flock. A man is in charge of his household; his wife is his helper. Straight outta the bible. Let that sink in. Everything is his responsibility. You are the helper. He can and should delegate tasks to you. But he shouldn't be resting on his laurels while your serve everyone else, including him.

 

There is a time for making your husband sandwiches (so to speak), out of gratitude for all that he has done for you. You're not in the sandwich-making years. You're the one who needs support. Stop making his lunch while you're at it.

 

This is soooo good.

 

Also, don't compare yourself to yesterday;s moms.

 

Do you realize how dirty everything was back then? Do you realize that many, many working class moms could hire, relatively inexpensively, a girl to clean and cook during times of stress. Do you realize that the kids were not homeschooled? And when home the kids worked HARD for a good portion of the day? That hard work often led to injuries for the kids that would be intolerable now. Do you realize how little stuff many people had at that time period to clean and organize and maintain?

 

You're comparing apples to oranges. 

[Elizabeth86]

Not really, particularly if he hates his job. He'll probably need/want to get a job anyway after that. All the military/State dept. peeps I know who retired in their 40s did.

 

I would rather he find something he likes and stay busy and happy and productive until he is older.

 

No one here ever said he hated his job. Someone else was saying their dh was unhappy. Mine likes what he does.

[scrapbookbuzz]

You are not the only parent in this household. Therefore, you are not the only one responsible for getting everything done

with the home AND schooling the children. This is a partnership. And his life is not solely about work, working out, and sleeping. Plus, he doesn't have to work out every day. Wake him up, for goodness sake. Maybe have a cup of coffee ready for him when you do. But for crying out loud, there is more to providing for one's family than simply "bringing home the bacon."

 

 

Edited December 9, 2017 by scrapbookbuzz

[Joker]

I'm laughing at thinking of my dh doing all our grocery shopping. When he does go, he messages me pictures of almost everything to make sure it's right. By the time he gets home, I vow never to send him again. 😂

[freesia]

No one here ever said he hated his job. Someone else was saying their dh was unhappy. Mine likes what he does.

 

Oh, okay, sorry.  I did get confused.  That's a plus.

[freesia]

I'm laughing at thinking of my dh doing all our grocery shopping. When he does go, he messages me pictures of almost everything to make sure it's right. By the time he gets home, I vow never to send him again. 😂

 

Full confession--I do get several texts and an occasional phone call.  Every item would drive me nuts, but I've decided a few photos and texts are ok (and I try to bite my tongue when things aren't exactly right bc it does hold down the calls.

[Elizabeth86]

I've found that my dh does so much better when I ask politely for something specific. Story time is concrete. He probably won't zone out and suddenly you find the toddler attached to your leg while you're teaching subtraction. I'd start with story time. Also, forget about his lunches. When you prepare supper for your family, set his portion aside in a sectioned plate with a lid and poof, there's tomorrow's lunch.

 

This is soooo good.

 

Also, don't compare yourself to yesterday;s moms.

 

Do you realize how dirty everything was back then? Do you realize that many, many working class moms could hire, relatively inexpensively, a girl to clean and cook during times of stress. Do you realize that the kids were not homeschooled? And when home the kids worked HARD for a good portion of the day? That hard work often led to injuries for the kids that would be intolerable now. Do you realize how little stuff many people had at that time period to clean and organize and maintain?

 

You're comparing apples to oranges.

I realize. But still my grandma actually did work as the girl that cooked and cleaned for others and raised kids. I'm just saying. I have hot water at the turn of a knob and paper plates and still can't get my dishes washed. I can get fast food if dinner doesn't work out. She literally had to go kill a chicken. My life is so easy compared to that.

[mamaraby]

My dh was a correctional officer for seven years before he became a deputy. High stress, tough job yes. Still able to be involved in his family’s life. Period. Changed diapers. Held babies. Gave baths. Bought groceries. Made meals. Played with kids. Took them to the dentist and the doctor. Read the lesson in the phonics book with them. Taught a math lesson or two. Backed me up with the kids. Fixed stuff. Changed the oil. He still does all that now (and often does some of it for other people in the course of his job).

 

My dad was an LEO. First worked for a city police department. Then became a deputy. Taught for the academy at night. Still did his part around the house. He did it when he worked nights and my parents would trade off childcare duties. There were years when he was a detective that we didn’t get to see him much. He was still there. He still did his part. When he moved to first shift, he made dinner every night because he was the first one home and the family had to eat.

 

Sorry, others can make excuses about a tough job, but as the wife of a CO/LEO, the daughter of an LEO, and one who has a few more relatives who were prison guards and cops, he can do better. Tell him you need him to do better. The job is not an excuse.

 

Exercising with kids? Jogging stroller. That’ll get your heart rate up. Push it up a hill and down. Then do it again. Plus, exercise with the 2 year old means the 2yo is occupied so mom can teach the older. YMCA membership comes with free childcare. Some even have discounts through employers.

 

Household tasks? Some of dh’s coworkers do the grocery shopping after the shift ends. You need a 24 hour grocery store, but if you do then you practically have the store to yourself.

 

Since so far it seems mom’s pulling all the weight here, it doesn’t seem like it’s unreasonable for dad to be the one making some sacrifices and doing some creative problem solving.

[freesia]

I just remembered that my Dad, who was born in 1930 also did the shopping in the 70s/80s when my Mom went to work part time.  He made his own breakfast and lunch.  It wouldn't have occurred to him to notice housework that needed to be done, but he would have done it.  My grandparents had a hired woman who came and cleaned weekly their entire married life (1930s-1990s).  The pp is correct that many women had more help or lived near family or had "spinster" aunts who lived with them.  And if they did any homeschooling (thinking Laura Ingalls here) it fit around the housework and the kids were sent out when possible (or, in wealthy families tutors and governesses did it).

 

It occurs to me that I am focusing on the groceries when it seems like you have that covered with the pick up.  I am just meaning to say that sometimes we judge ourselves by a false standard--we set the bar much higher and assume folks coped much better.  My great-great grandmother whose life as a mother was like Ma Ingalls (Minnesota, Dakotas--grasshoppers, fires, all of it) had 11 kids and was a bitter, controlling woman in her old age. 

 

And sometimes we try to shelter our husbands and not ask for the help we need or for them to do their share and that isn't fair to them, our kids or our marriage.  My mom regrets not having my Dad do more when we were little and he worked second shift.  He missed a lot of our little kid-hood.  When she started to work it really helped the balance and he became much more involved as a Dad.

[Elizabeth86]

My dh was a correctional officer for seven years before he became a deputy. High stress, tough job yes. Still able to be involved in his family’s life. Period. Changed diapers. Held babies. Gave baths. Bought groceries. Made meals. Played with kids. Took them to the dentist and the doctor. Read the lesson in the phonics book with them. Taught a math lesson or two. Backed me up with the kids. Fixed stuff. Changed the oil. He still does all that now (and often does some of it for other people in the course of his job).

 

My dad was an LEO. First worked for a city police department. Then became a deputy. Taught for the academy at night. Still did his part around the house. He did it when he worked nights and my parents would trade off childcare duties. There were years when he was a detective that we didn’t get to see him much. He was still there. He still did his part. When he moved to first shift, he made dinner every night because he was the first one home and the family had to eat.

 

Sorry, others can make excuses about a tough job, but as the wife of a CO/LEO, the daughter of an LEO, and one who has a few more relatives who were prison guards and cops, he can do better. Tell him you need him to do better. The job is not an excuse.

 

Exercising with kids? Jogging stroller. That’ll get your heart rate up. Push it up a hill and down. Then do it again. Plus, exercise with the 2 year old means the 2yo is occupied so mom can teach the older. YMCA membership comes with free childcare. Some even have discounts through employers.

 

Household tasks? Some of dh’s coworkers do the grocery shopping after the shift ends. You need a 24 hour grocery store, but if you do then you practically have the store to yourself.

 

Since so far it seems mom’s pulling all the weight here, it doesn’t seem like it’s unreasonable for dad to be the one making some sacrifices and doing some creative problem solving.

I'm not sure how he could do better without college here? We don't have time or money for college?? Our area is very poor and few jobs. The other blue collar job that pays well in our area is in bad shape right now. My dh make 3 times what the average salray is around here. Like I said, he doesn't hate his job. He gets a bit burned out from time to time like anyone, but his job doesn't stress him. He just doesn't stress. That's me I'm stressed. Edited December 9, 2017 by Elizabeth86

[mamaraby]

I'm not sure how he could do better without college here? We don't have time or money for college??

Where did I mention college for your dh? Since when does your dh doing better at pulling his weight at home require a college degree? My dad had an associates degree and still pulled his weight. ;) Multiple meanings to “do better.â€

 

Also, he likes his job? He should stick with it. He should also pull his weight at home.

Edited December 9, 2017 by mamaraby

[Free Indeed]

I haven't read all the replies, but I would adjust my schedule to better accommodate his. That may mean shifting bedtime for the child I need one on one time with, or doing that during nap time. I know it's not always popular, but I would let him have his sleep, and wake up time. I would prepare his lunches after the kids were in bed.

[Elizabeth86]

Where did I mention college for your dh? Since when does your dh doing better at pulling his weight at home require a college degree? My dad had an associates degree and still pulled his weight. ;) Multiple meanings to “do better.â€

I don't know, there are a gazillion replys, I guess I'm getting confused. Sorry. I was thinking you all were saying he could do bettet career wise.

[mamaraby]

I don't know, there are a gazillion replys, I guess I'm getting confused. Sorry. I was thinking you all were saying he could do bettet career wise.

Lol, nope.

 

My post is more of a “Love your job? Great! High stress job? That’s tough. Been there, walked that, still walk that. My dad did it while in the same line of work. My dh did it while in the same line of work. Time to adult-up.†Dh would say man-up, but I hate that phrase.

 

You’ve been pulling the lion’s share of the load. Time to readjust. If the husbands I know can do it, yours can too.

[maize]

If the husbands I know can do it, yours can too.

Some can, some can't--not everyone comes with the same energy, executive function ability, mental health, etc.

 

I know nothing about Elizabeth's husband. I do know that my own husband has limited capacity to contribute at home--holding down a regular job takes pretty much everything he has to muster.

[mamaraby]

Some can, some can't--not everyone comes with the same energy, executive function ability, mental health, etc.

 

I know nothing about Elizabeth's husband. I do know that my own husband has limited capacity to contribute at home--holding down a regular job takes pretty much everything he has to muster.

But it sounds like her husband is not that sort, yes? He has a regular job. Is holding it down. And has what sounds like an otherwise functioning life (meets with his buddies to work out, is involved with the family on the weekends). Unless the OP is holding back details, it does not sound like her husband has limited capacity to help out at home. To function as a CO/prison guard and to enjoy it would require some degree of NT-ness. Those that lack EF skills or struggle with mental health issues do not typically last in the job.

[2_girls_mommy]

I dunno, I am accepting the possibility that your houses and kids are more difficult to care for than mine are, or maybe that you have much higher standards of care and cleanliness and eating than I do, or something.  I never felt like taking care of the kids and house was anything close to a full-time job.  It was tiring but it was not very much work.  I worked part time or pursued hobbies or posted on the internet or watched TV rather a lot while they were younger.  There just wasn't that much work to be done - feed them one solid meal a day, grocery shop a couple of times a week, run a few loads of laundry (10 minutes each), do the dishes, sweep, keep them from injuring each other, watch them run around outside, send them to run around in the basement, change diapers.   To be fair, I don't fold clothes, ever.  I reuse plates that are not super dirty (say they just had an apple and a sandwich on them - I wipe off the crumbs and put on the next sandwich).  I don't do fancy cleaning - no baseboards or dusting or whatever.  We always had a small place - generally 1000 sq ft and under.  I don't ever cook anything that takes more than 20 minutes of work, and I only do that once a day.  Breakfast is oatmeal or cereal or fruit or something and lunch is foraged.  I don't polish anything or keep the furniture shampooed or garden.  The kids are largely self-sufficient and easy learners.

 

In that case my advice is maybe not very useful or relevant, so I will leave it largely to people who also have cleaner houses or neater kids or more difficult-to-care-for kids.  

I actually somewhat agree with this, until I added all of the rest: teaching co-op, leading girl scouts, volunteer teaching children's church, driving my kids to dance and EVERYTHING else like social stuffs. We are only in 3 things that are super important to us. But with 3 kids those three things take up all of the hours after school time with drive time and errands in there. So getting that one meal out a day (which I do very similarly to you, can be an issue if the weekend was so busy because I drove everybody to their separate activities and practices on my own because DH was working, and Sunday was taken up with church and church activities and I didn't have time to get to the store since I did all of the driving, all of the cooking and such on my own and just couldn't swing the store stop, even though it was on my to do list.... Or if like today, I forgot to turn on the crockpot before getting out the door to co-op. UGH. And straight from co-op had to drive my teen to her volunteer position because she is almost driving age, but not quite, and had to go home in between to put the toddler down for nap and leave her with the other teen, then drive the volunteer to her piano recital and then go pick up the rest of the family to go watch and they foraged for dinner, dh home by then, on their own and the other and I ate 7 11 snacks on the way to her recital... 

 

It gets like this with teens.  It isn't stressful to me. I am pretty organized actually, but things happen like my crockpot today- a whole pound of ruined chicken, and there is only so much time in the day. When we get home after a full day like that, we still need to lay out bags and clothes for tomorrow's stuff, switch the laundry, run the dishwasher, think about meals for the weekend and get the toddler to bed. It is a lot. And I am not even remotely pregnant like OP. I was always exhausted when I was. 

Edited December 9, 2017 by 2_girls_mommy

[Frances]

Yed, but don't you think the idea of being retired at 48 is an amazing idea and worth hanging on for 12 more years. Plus the more senority gets, the easier his posts can become.

But is his pension really going to be enough for him to retire at 48? By that point your children will be at much more expensive ages than they are now.

 

If there's one thing we learned when my husband was getting his PhD, never look towards how things are going to be better or different when some goal (PhD, retirement, etc) is achieved to the point where you are not primarily focusing on the fact that real life is happening right now and it is time that you will never get back, especially when children are involved.

[LMD]

I do like this, but I've personally forbidden DH from grocery shopping, ever. He'd kill my budget. :laugh:

Haha, well dh is pretty good. We used to shop together so we both know how it goes. I text him a list and he brings it. I don't micromanage, we just work with whatever we've got.

I do the budgeting and money management, bill paying etc. But he is very much in the loop, we both keep track so he knows how much to spend.

I don't know, it all just worked out in the end. Now we've moved further out of town - it just makes sense for him to shop in town since he's there for work anyway. The budget would be blown by petrol for my hour+ round trip!

[lovinmyboys]

Fair is everyone getting what they need. So, independent of what he is or is not doing, are your needs being met? I would think about what you need and find a way to meet those needs.

 

Also, I agree with others that sleep and exercise are both needs, so I wouldn’t ask him to give those up.

 

Dh worked a lot when our kids were young and honestly he wasn’t all that helpful when he was home. Looking back, I made two mistakes. One, was becoming a martyr. The other was not realizing that providing an income for his children was an important work.

 

ETA: Dh still works a lot, but he is much more involved now. I think he just didn’t really know what to do with babies and toddlers.

Edited December 9, 2017 by lovinmyboys

[eternalsummer]

I actually somewhat agree with this, until I added all of the rest: teaching co-op, leading girl scouts, volunteer teaching children's church, driving my kids to dance and EVERYTHING else like social stuffs. We are only in 3 things that are super important to us. But with 3 kids those three things take up all of the hours after school time with drive time and errands in there. So getting that one meal out a day (which I do very similarly to you, can be an issue if the weekend was so busy because I drove everybody to their separate activities and practices on my own because DH was working, and Sunday was taken up with church and church activities and I didn't have time to get to the store since I did all of the driving, all of the cooking and such on my own and just couldn't swing the store stop, even though it was on my to do list.... Or if like today, I forgot to turn on the crockpot before getting out the door to co-op. UGH. And straight from co-op had to drive my teen to her volunteer position because she is almost driving age, but not quite, and had to go home in between to put the toddler down for nap and leave her with the other teen, then drive the volunteer to her piano recital and then go pick up the rest of the family to go watch and they foraged for dinner, dh home by then, on their own and the other and I ate 7 11 snacks on the way to her recital... 

 

It gets like this with teens.  It isn't stressful to me. I am pretty organized actually, but things happen like my crockpot today- a whole pound of ruined chicken, and there is only so much time in the day. When we get home after a full day like that, we still need to lay out bags and clothes for tomorrow's stuff, switch the laundry, run the dishwasher, think about meals for the weekend and get the toddler to bed. It is a lot. And I am not even remotely pregnant like OP. I was always exhausted when I was. 

 

Yeah, I'm not looking forward to the years when more of them are in school and more of them are in more activities.  Right now we just have gymnastics for the girls, which is once a week and a 5 minute drive, and hockey for DS, which is around the corner.  I don't teach co-op, we don't do girl scouts, I don't volunteer, I don't engineer social gatherings or do much driving for them (they play with kids in the neighborhood, and DD sometimes goes to birthday parties).  

 

The driving is a lot.  For a while we had the two girls in different gymnastics classes and DS in hockey, all of which was a drive away, and it was a real time suck.

[eternalsummer]

People's sleep needs vary, and I agree that long term sleep deprivation is not good for either of you.  That is the first thing I'd try to fix - if you're not getting enough sleep, find a way to sleep in that extra hour, at least on weekends.  

 

DH needs 10-11 hours a night, sometimes 12.  He just needs that much.  I need about 7, maybe 8, 10 if early or late term pregnant.  During the busy season, Nov-Dec., I can survive on 6.5, but it is not good.  I couldn't do it as a regular thing for years.

[GoodGrief]

As others have said, this season with small children is tough (though I'd love to go back, truly). It sounds like your husband works hard at a really unpleasant job, and carries some pretty heavy other responsibilities around the house (putting on a roof? Wow!)

 

Honestly, I'd let him do what he needs to do during his workweek to keep himself going. I would not worry about his meals or laundry though. He can handle that.

 

My husband has always had a super-rigid routine. He gets up...no lie...at 4 AM to leave at 7:30. And every minute of that time is filled...there's a workout in there, news reading, a very involved and specific smoothie routine :lol: I used to fight it, but after almost 25 years of marriage, I've realized it's a mental health thing for him. I suspect he resides somewhere on the autism spectrum, but who knows.

 

In the end, you have to evaluate if everyone is getting what they need...as opposed to want...from the relationship. Only you can decide that. To me though, your husband sounds like he is contributing to the household...could he do more? Probably. But maybe he's doing enough for now.

[amy g.]

I have a kid who gets up at 5:00 to get to 11:00 class. It takes that long for her to get everything done exactly the right way.

 

I wasn’t really wanting to admit that I have to have at least an hour with no one talking to me in the morning before I can function.

 

When we have church or swim meets, I get up an hour before everyone else. If I don’t do that, my day is ruined.

[Joker]

Dd, 15, gets up just after 5am but doesn't leave for school until 7am. She needs that time to do whatever is it that she does.

 

I need time alone at night. I don't care if it's the weekend and one of the dc are up until 2am. That means I will be up until 3am. I need that downtime alone and can't sleep without it.

 

Dh needs his outdoor yard work time. There are times where I could get upset about it because something (in mind bigger) needs to be done inside but dh needs that time outside, with his music, and working in the yard/garden. 

 

Ds, 18, needs his sleep and he needs lots of it. He often goes to bed by 10pm on a Friday and we don't see him again until 2pm Saturday. I've always thought you can't really make up for sleep time lost on the weekend but he definitely does. If he misses out on that sleep time, he struggles in everything the next week. 

 

Everyone is different and has different needs. I've learned over the past 20 years with dh that we can try to change our habits and what we need, but it rarely works out well. We've all just learned to work with our needs and schedules. 

[Storygirl]

DH and I are not financially dependent on each other (we run a business together, but either of us could support ourselves on our own) but we also don't believe in divorce separate of major fault (abandonment, infertility, adultery, abuse).  She may be saying that her DH knows she won't divorce him because she or they as a couple believe in the necessary permanency of marriage.

 

eta: that is to say, she didn't say her DH knew she couldn't divorce him, but that she wouldn't.

 

Wait. What? Infertility is grounds for divorce? Right up there with adultery, abandonment, and abuse??? 

[amy g.]

Yard work was a huge resentment for me. My husband would work long hours during the week and then spend one day out of every weekend mowing the lawn and weeding the garden and trimming the hedges.

 

For real?

 

When I had babies and toddlers to care 24 hours a day? Can’t we just pay someone to do the stupid yard so that I can get some help?

 

Turns out, after a week of office work, he needed that down time outside in order to recharge and be able to do it all over again the next week.

 

I’m a big fan of everyone figuring out the coping mechanisms that work the best for them.

[lovinmyboys]

Some things that helped me when I had all little kids and a Dh who worked a lot (and was deployed for 3 of the first 8 years).

 

Early bedtime (I agree with you about not keeping the kids up late. My kids never slept in. We would have just had grumpy kids up at 6:30).

 

Have a clean enough house. Hopefully you can get a dishwasher soon. It really shouldn’t take 2 hours after the kids go to bed to clean the house. Either try to get better routines or lower your standards.

 

Easy meals. Seriously my kids ate oatmeal, eggs, applesauce, yogurt, cheese and crackers, fruit, and steamed veggies a lot. I also made soups and casseroles and we would eat them over several days.

 

Rest time in the afternoon for everyone.

 

1 hour of school a day for the 6yr old. I broke it up into two 30 minute blocks. Usually we did one right after breakfast (everyone seemed happy then) and then we did another 30 minutes after rest time while they snacked.

 

Try to structure your day so you can get your needs met. I know it can be hard. My 3rd child was crazy toddler, but I did eventually figure out how to baby proof his room so he could go in there safely when I couldn’t watch him.

[KungFuPanda]

If morning help is when you need it most, have him pack his own lunch and workout before work. This has him dressing/showering at the gym. He’d be leaving earlier, but he should be able to help by 8 a.m. and still get plenty of sleep. Breakfast can be your main family meal. I’d prep that the night before, after the kids are in bed but before he gets home, so the morning is streamlined.

[KungFuPanda]

I do like this, but I've personally forbidden DH from grocery shopping, ever. He'd kill my budget. :laugh:

My dh grocery shopping would save money. He’d never come home with all the items! His method is to go through every aisle and if he misses something he just doesn’t get it. He doesn’t go back aisles. It’s insane. He cannot be trusted with a list that takes him out of the express line.

[Peaceseeker]

I think I would try to solve the problem of learning how to homeschool with multiple young children without his help. Because that is just going to get more and more involved as your children age and you have to spend more time homeschooling, and you have more than one to teach and more than one little one being distracting. Lots of homeschool moms have gone down this path before and it is not easy. But I know a lot of women can't get any help during school hours and they have to either figure it out or put the kids in school. And if he is going to go back to day shift and this is just temporary- then you are going to have to solve this problem without him anyway if you want to homeschool long term.

 

I would take the time he is willing to help now by actually doing something for myself. Like a freaking nap. Because him watching the little ones so you can teach school isn't actually doing anything for yourself. So I would figure out how to manage school the best I could at other times. I would wake him up around 10-10:30, give him his hour of grump, and then say wake me when you have to leave for work honey! As in, he makes lunch for himself and the kids (great time to pack his own dinner for lunch) and you take an hour or two nap midday. You're going to need that extra sleep much more than 2 hours of uninterrupted schoolwork with a first grader. Especially since you are about to have a newborn and you are getting less than 6 hours most nights yourself now.

 

Ultimately, give yourself some grace this year. 1st grade can be so very little when you have 4 kids under 6. You will need a long term solution for your family eventually, but a little reading, writing, and math is ok for a busy season full of little ones.

Edited December 9, 2017 by CaliforniaDreaming

[Carol in Cal.]

My dh grocery shopping would save money. He’d never come home with all the items! His method is to go through every aisle and if he misses something he just doesn’t get it. He doesn’t go back aisles. It’s insane. He cannot be trusted with a list that takes him out of the express line.

OMGosh, DH was like this.  Drove me crazy.

And he would never tell me that he didn't find something, even if I asked him.

And I'd be cooking along, and suddenly need something on the list that had not made it into the house.  

 

There WAS a solution.  I have no idea why this works, but if I shoot him an email instead of writing out a list, he gets everything on it, and if he can't find something he lets me know or he goes to a second store.  It was a stunning change!