Starting a classically minded co-op? Has anyone done this?

[staceyobu]

I have been considering and reconsidering homeschooling options. We really, really want to be in some sort of community with other homeschoolers. Regular homeschool park days here have tons of unschoolers and intermittent attendance.  There are several pay per class options for middle school and up.  

 

I want something similar to the national chain that provides classes for pre-k through 12th grade. However, I just don't like that.  It takes over curriculum starting in 7th grade,  I also have some other general differences with their educational philosophy.

 

I *want* something different. What I want doesn't exist. I'm wondering if I am really alone in what I am wanting, or is there a niche I could fill? 

 

I want science experiments and art projects and music done together. I want to engage in book discussion and community lunch.  I want to spur others on to pursuing a classical education.  Maybe some Latin?  Maybe some history? Maybe some timeline?  I want more than play time together.  Less than dictating how everyone implements things at home.

 

Has anyone done something like this? Did it work? Did it fail? I've been considering it for a while. Back and forth between "I can do this" and "this would be waaay too much work".  

[SoCal_Bear]

If you do, start small with a just few other like minded families that you have rapport. Share the responsibilities. If I teach science, would you teach X. That sort of thing. Then if it works well for the designated stretch of time say 12 weeks, then re-evaluate and see who really is on board and who isn't. See if expectations ought to be clarified...Our co-op group started with just 3 families in the mid 80s. It's 150 families now and we run a class day with 50+ classes. There were a lot of hits and misses. The group really does reflect the leadership. So, if you lead it, don't get yourself in a situation where you a long ranger leader. You will burn out if you do. Our group was careful to recruit moms into leadership who shared that vision and were willing to coalesce around the current leader. 

[Lori D.]

It sounds like you want to 2 different things:

 

1. community social time -- regular weekly time (lunch) to develop friendships & homeschool support

2. classical coursework support -- regular, weekly classroom and teacher

 

 

I don't want to drench your idea with ice water, but... Frankly, no, I think it is highly unlikely that this is going to work. Not due to you. But due to the pool of homeschoolers you would be drawing from.

 

Your educational philosophy (classical) is different from those homeschoolers you participate with (unschoolers).

 

And a regular, weekly classroom/teaching set-up, or co-op, is not likely to work well if the homeschoolers near you already have intermittent attendance for something as low-key as park day. How are they going to manage to keep up with homework for an academic co-op -- or even *show up* every week?

 

 

Perhaps what might work better is to hand-pick about half a dozen families who would genuinely be interested and *committed* to making something work, organize it together in advance of the semester, share the responsibilities so no one person is doing the built of work every week -- or each mom only has to be in charge 2x/per semester.

 

Also, as much as you're wanting to NOT have a dictated curriculum, unless you're fine with more of a relaxed "enrichment" type of setting, I think you would have much more academic support, commitment, and buy-in if you are all using the same curriculum. For example, I've seen some very successful, small (4 families) groups all using Tapestry of Grace.

 

And it's really hard to get people on board with doing grade 7-12 classes unless everyone is using the same program for the same scope & sequence and scheduling... I've been teaching grade 7-12 Lit. & Comp. homeschool co-op classes for the past 5 years, and why it works is that families set aside doing a formal curriculum at home, and I write my own material and individually mentor the writing aspect for each student when it comes to the grading/providing feedback on the writing assignments.

 

Good luck! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited December 7, 2017 by Lori D.

[eternalsummer]

It's possible that there is a vast underserved population of classically-minded homeschoolers in her area, though.

 

When I was homeschooling in a suburb of Kansas City, about 5 years ago, the only groups were a Christian one with a statement of faith (which we couldn't make) and a unschooler-dominated politically-liberal (and loudish about it) park day group.  It was a suburb of about 75k, with a fair number of homeschoolers, but the groups were just not suitable for us. 

 

We ended up moving away and then back very temporarily, and in the meantime this group had started: https://stonetablestudygroup.blogspot.com/

 

I almost signed up (in fact I paid them a deposit) but we moved away again.  It has a pretty healthy population of students and families and got there in just a few years of operation.

[8filltheheart]

I have never found homeschoolers with similar academic values that had kids similar ages or abilities to mine. What has worked are single focused ideas than can be broader in age groups. A book study. A craft cub. (Knitting/crocheting). A First Friday group. A math circle. Just a few close families with similar values can provide an amazing support network.

 

As far as core subject content, you have to take control of content and pace in a class. Everyone has to play well in that sandbox to work. I have yet to have it work. Maybe I just don't play well with others.

[SamanthaCarter]

Ours is similar to what you describe. It’s not technically a co-op, but that’s what people call it as it’s similar. Mondays 9am to 4pm. It’s a pay per class model, with all but a few teachers being moms. Moms are paid $10 per month per student, while students pay $12 per month per class. There are classes from ages pre-K to 12. Teachers have to submit a proposal for a class in January, and it’s approved based on interest, and fit within the general philosophy. They bill it as Charlotte Mason inspired, but I’m not sure I’d really call it that. It’s a mixture of CM, classical and traditional. There is assembly and lunch together and kids are free to study or play when they are waiting for their next class (two of my kids are each signed up for three 50 minute class sessions at 9, 11 and 1, so they have a good bit of play/ study time.) Kids third grade and above have a mapbook and timeline that they are supposed to take to each class, while teachers are encouraged to give them something to record related to the subject. It’s a good model and grows significantly every year.

Edited December 7, 2017 by SamanthaCarter

[YodaGirl]

You would need to have other parents who buy into the classical education model. You would also need parents to agree on which type of Latin, history, etc curriculum, as well. History may be difficult since there are a variety of ways of handling it - social studies, 3 yr cycle, 4 yr cycle, etc. If you're doing just sentence memory work, you'd need to develop it on your own or pull from a curriculum (points back to needing to agree on one).

 

Also, if you've ever been a contracted member of a similar classical education community, make sure that you're legally allowed to create another type of community. Depending on your previous role, that may or may not be a problem.

[staceyobu]

It sounds like you want to 2 different things:

 

1. community social time -- regular weekly time (lunch) to develop friendships & homeschool support

2. classical coursework support -- regular, weekly classroom and teacher

 

 

I don't want to drench your idea with ice water, but... Frankly, no, I think it is highly unlikely that this is going to work. Not due to you. But due to the pool of homeschoolers you would be drawing from.

 

Your educational philosophy (classical) is different from those homeschoolers you participate with (unschoolers).

 

And a regular, weekly classroom/teaching set-up, or co-op, is not likely to work well if the homeschoolers near you already have intermittent attendance for something as low-key as park day. How are they going to manage to keep up with homework for an academic co-op -- or even *show up* every week?

 

 

Perhaps what might work better is to hand-pick about half a dozen families who would genuinely be interested and *committed* to making something work, organize it together in advance of the semester, share the responsibilities so no one person is doing the built of work every week -- or each mom only has to be in charge 2x/per semester.

 

Also, as much as you're wanting to NOT have a dictated curriculum, unless you're fine with more of a relaxed "enrichment" type of setting, I think you would have much more academic support, commitment, and buy-in if you are all using the same curriculum. For example, I've seen some very successful, small (4 families) groups all using Tapestry of Grace.

 

And it's really hard to get people on board with doing grade 7-12 classes unless everyone is using the same program for the same scope & sequence and scheduling... I've been teaching grade 7-12 Lit. & Comp. homeschool co-op classes for the past 5 years, and why it works is that families set aside doing a formal curriculum at home, and I write my own material and individually mentor the writing aspect for each student when it comes to the grading/providing feedback on the writing assignments.

 

Good luck! Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

 

Sorry. Let me clarify. I want to basically create a "classical co-op" to weed out hanging out with unschooly-unparenty types. There are a vast range of homeschoolers in this area. People who are unschoolers tend to hang at park days. People who are not tend to flock to academic co-ops. However, the academic co-op options are limited. Either middle school and above a la carte classes with expert teachers or the national classical homeschool chain that is not a good fit for ME.  I'm wondering if there are other classically leaning homeschoolers who would enjoy a different co-op experience. I've read some about schole groups, which seems to provide an alternate approach.  

 

I guess I'm wondering if there is a way to do this and NOT dictate curriculum. Could we do Latin vocabulary games? Then, it doesn't matter what Latin program you do at home? Could we do science experiments with the option to read apologia chapters at home, but if you don't want that option, you still get the benefit of an experiment and short lesson?  

[staceyobu]

It's possible that there is a vast underserved population of classically-minded homeschoolers in her area, though.

 

When I was homeschooling in a suburb of Kansas City, about 5 years ago, the only groups were a Christian one with a statement of faith (which we couldn't make) and a unschooler-dominated politically-liberal (and loudish about it) park day group.  It was a suburb of about 75k, with a fair number of homeschoolers, but the groups were just not suitable for us. 

 

We ended up moving away and then back very temporarily, and in the meantime this group had started: https://stonetablestudygroup.blogspot.com/

 

I almost signed up (in fact I paid them a deposit) but we moved away again.  It has a pretty healthy population of students and families and got there in just a few years of operation.

 

This is encouraging. Thanks.

[Lori D.]

Sorry. Let me clarify.

 

Thank you for clarifying. Always a help, as it helps others better understand your need! :)

 

 

 ... the academic co-op options are limited. Either middle school and above a la carte classes with expert teachers or the national classical homeschool chain that is not a good fit for ME.  I'm wondering if there are other classically leaning homeschoolers who would enjoy a different co-op experience. I've read some about schole groups, which seems to provide an alternate approach.  

 

 

I guess I'm wondering if there is a way to do this and NOT dictate curriculum. Could we do Latin vocabulary games? Then, it doesn't matter what Latin program you do at home? Could we do science experiments with the option to read apologia chapters at home, but if you don't want that option, you still get the benefit of an experiment and short lesson?  

 

From your signature, your children are still young -- your oldest looks like 6th grade? You are still in the stage with your children where what you are looking for is possible, because families can be classical homeschoolers, but have young enough children that you have flexibility. It IS fun and do-able to use something for Latin at home and have a co-op class for Latin vocabulary games.

 

I do think it's possible to organize something like this and enjoy doing it with families with elementary-aged, and even up through middle school-aged, children. :) Just be sure you go in to it with several others as part of the organizing "team", as described by Calbear and YodaGirl, upthread. You have 4 young children to homeschool and to parent as you basic priority -- starting a co-op WILL add a lot of stress and suck up a lot of your time! :)

 

One thing I see that may make it more difficult to find others to join you in organizing a co-op is the change in "trend" -- homeschooling has changed a lot over the past 10-15 years, with a lot more options available to families. Co-ops of the kind you are suggesting (what I think of as the "old style" homeschooling co-op) have a lot more competition, what with the emergence of things like virtual charters through the public schools, university-model schools, Classical Conversation (and others), online class options, and organized co-ops of professional teachers/classes.

 

I also think the mindset of a lot of homeschoolers has changed over the past 10-15 years as well. It could just be my imagination, but it sure seems to me that many more homeschool families now seem to be looking for ways to outsource, or opportunities to drop-off for co-op and activities, rather than join up with others and contribute time and labor to make something happen.

 

 

And, I do think it gets harder to keep an "old-style" co-op going for older students. Just from what I've seen locally and on these boards: it just naturally gets a LOT harder for that to work for high school students if you aren't all using the same program, or paying an instructor and pretty much outsourcing all of the credit, so the work done at home is homework from the materials and assignments used by the teacher.

 

Even the classes at the co-op that Eternal Summer linked are based on families using the same program (IEW or Apologia), or are outsourcing a credit to a teacher (Econ and Gov't), and are not also doing their own, different materials at home on top of the class materials (at least at the high school level).

 

You may wonder: why is this?

 

What frequently happens is that homeschool families hit high school (and for some, it's middle school), and they suddenly find themselves realizing they need rigorous material to make rigorous credits in order to be competitive for college admission, but esp. to make sure their students are going to be able to land college scholarship $$. There is no time to do enrichment co-op classes, or even classical co-op subjects that are using supplements, when you're striving for a rigorous credit.

 

That's why so many classical education homeschoolers move to outsourcing with AP courses, dual enrollment, or expert teachers for the courses they can't oversee themselves at a rigorous level. Even non-rigorous families find they just don't have the time for outside the home activities unless they are directly contributing to completing the credits needed for high school graduation, or are extracurriculars that are fulfilling student interests and passions.

 

For example: losing half a day once a week to go to a co-op to do science experiments matched for Apologia, when you are using a completely different text and program with a different scope and sequence, means having to make up your own program's work as homework, or extends working into the summer in order to complete the science credit -- as fun as it might be to do some additional science experiments with other homeschoolers using the different program, families just don't have that extra time to spend on a co-op that isn't completely/fully meeting needs.

 

What I see for high school with many of our local homeschoolers (not unschoolers, but also not necessarily classical or having high-performing students), is doing a variety of options all in one year, to meet a variety of specific needs. So a student may be doing the following:

 

- Math -- outsource to an online class

- Foreign Language -- outsource to dual enrollment at the community college

- English: Writing -- outsource to a local co-op, local tutor, or online class

- English: Literature -- at home, use a curriculum and discuss

- Science: meet with 2-3 other families using the same program and do experiments/study together

- History -- at home, use a curriculum and discuss

- Fine Arts: lessons with a local professional and performing locally

+ 2-3 extracurricular activities (often a time-consuming sport or speech & debate team is one of them)

 

And, once you hit high school, esp. with the first child, the parent often finds herself stretched thin overseeing several younger students, as well as doing high school record keeping, and starting to research colleges and financial aid. Which means more of a need to outsource some high school credits, rather than having the time to participate in some co-op classes that would be fun supplement -- but are tangential to the needs of completing credits.

 

And, of course, this is all based on my own local experience, so "YMMV" and the goals and interests of the homeschoolers in your area may be different and make it more possible to start up/keep running a classical co-op in the way that would be of benefit to you and like-minded homeschoolers! I hope so! BEST of luck! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited December 8, 2017 by Lori D.

[bethben]

I am planning on joining this group next year.  They use a lot of curriculum that is considered classical in nature.  The younger grades do a faux classical conversations group with the possibility of further instruction in the afternoon as they approach junior high.  They are definitely not for everyone and those who are not looking for academic work tend to drop out quickly from what I understand.  They are definitely not cheap and the teachers are those who are passionate about their subjects and really know how to teach them -- it's going way beyond a homeschool mom who will learn Latin to teach a class next year (I'm looking at you CC).  It's someone who's been teaching or knows Latin for years. 

 

http://twelvestones.education

Edited December 7, 2017 by bethben

[eternalsummer]

Hey Beth, you're in my area!  We're up in Woodland Park, though, and I'd be reticent to drive down to the far side of the Springs even weekly during the winter, otherwise that looks like a great program.

[bethben]

Hey Beth, you're in my area!  We're up in Woodland Park, though, and I'd be reticent to drive down to the far side of the Springs even weekly during the winter, otherwise that looks like a great program.

 

I'm only 15 minutes away.  I was so impressed with the program.  They are using every single bit of curriculum I would use if I actually had enough brain power and more than one student.  I'm still not totally sure if my ds will go there as we have to balance friendships and academics more with him.  He's in a great program right now through The Classical Academy if you've heard of that.  

 

Side note, I'm confused at your siggy....eternal summer it is not where you live!  Beautiful though!  I can't blame you for not wanting to drive down a mountain twice a week during the winter!  Can you see yourself getting down and then they close the highway on you?  Not fun!

Edited December 8, 2017 by bethben

[eternalsummer]

It's more of a wishful thinking thing, I think (my username) :)  Colorado is a pretty great state on the whole for homeschoolers just because there are so many options; even up here in Woodland they have a one day a week program through the local PS and a couple of very affordable co-ops.  

 

I would have trouble giving up curriculum control but there's a point at which I'm willing to make the exchange, and outside expectations (so less drama about getting work done) plus social opportunities really helps.  I can see where the OP is coming from in that when we lived somewhere where the only homeschoolers we could socialize with (because of the dynamics of the groups) were very different from us culturally, politically, school-wise, etc., and also to be honest quite flakey, we just didn't get together with other hsers very regularly.  I think for elementary and even middle school kids curriculum is also easier to compromise about - we've used probably 10 different math curricula (sigh) but to be honest I think any of them would have worked just fine all the way through Pre-A, I just like curricula.

 

Now that DD12 is 12, though, she's differentiating somewhat  - going way ahead in some things, needing targeted slower instruction in others, trying something out and deciding after a week that she loathes loathes it, etc.  

[Soror]

I am amazed by all the options out there. There is nothing for highschool here. There used to be a co-op with classes for various ages but it fell apart. Now, I've restarted it but we're not up to doing a full day of classes, we do field trips and general education classes. I'm contemplating trying to get together with a few other Moms to see if we can do some classes together in a bid to keep ds at home(he's told me he wants to go to school). We'll have to compromise curriculum, there is no one using what I'm using around here. I'm trying to decide what my line is, I won't do super fundy curriculum but things that I once found unacceptable seem a lot more palatable when faced with PS where I'll have absolutely no control over what is done. I'm just hoping to maybe find a few other kids that will do the work and parents that won't flake out. It is going to be a lot more work on my part but ds is craving academic work with others and just the social time (I'm having a hard time meeting his demands in this area) and as Laurie said once you get to the HS age it is hard to get kids together just for fun stuff, sigh!

Edited December 8, 2017 by soror

[daijobu]

Co-ops are tricky for so many reasons.  Other parents may not have the expertise you need.  Or they aren't reliable.  Or they just aren't good teachers.  But if you do have like-minded, reliable, teachers who can do classroom management (a big difference from homeschooling), and can teach the subjects you want (math & science, anyone?), go for it.

 

If not, I recommend either teaching a class yourself or hiring a teacher and getting everyone to share in the cost.  That way you dictate what your own children are learning, and if other parents want to join you, so be it.  No need for group meetings, no need to compromise.  
 

I wanted my kids to have more literature experience, so I organized a book club.  I hired an English PhD student who met our group once a month.  I put out an announcement describing the reading list (the book club leader and I worked that out) and schedule, and whoever wanted to join us could join us.

 

I wanted a MathCounts team for my daughters, and since I'm mathy, I coached the team and invited other homeschoolers to join us.  I was in charge, I dictated the schedule and the homework.  And I got great students and families who agreed with out educational philosophy to join us.