Unexpected change of Major once in college. Would you be upset?

[Bootsie]

Reading this thread has made me realize how many different opinions there are on what constitutes a good choice of college major.  I realized that I followed the pattern of the model college student to some on this board and to others, I would have failed to meet their criteria in several ways. 

 

I never changed my major; I started my first day of college with one major, finished my degree in three years, immediately began a PhD program in the same field, and have been able to support myself comfortably in a career that has enriched my life.  

 

But, any step along the way,, I can see that some parents would have not been OK with my decisions.  My undergraduate degree is in economics.  I began college without having ever taken an economics class and knowing no one who was an economist.  (I also considered finance, accounting, and marketing--I had had a bookkeeping class in high school but no experience with classes in any of the other areas.).  My first semester, I fell in love with economics and decided I wanted to eventually be a college professor.  I don't know how many times I was asked, "What in the world will you do with an economics degree?  Major in something more employable--accounting, or even, nursing."  I had many friends who were nursing majors and their career path seemed straightforward and certain.  Economics was not seen as an employable major by many I knew.

 

When I entered into the PhD program in economics, I was told by many I was making a mistake.  Didn't I know that people who got a PhD in finance made a lot more money than people who go a PhD in economics?  Even after I was a year into my PhD program I seriously considered switching to a PhD in finance program.  But I decided the economics program provided a much better education (even if fewer and lower paying job opportunities).

 

I have never been employed as an "economics professor".  Every job that I have held has been in a finance department.  I would have probably made more money if my PhD had been in finance.  

 

DH has also been a finance professor for the past 30 years--his route to the exact same place was extremely different than mine.  He changed his major from pre-med, to pre-law, to film, to history....eventually to physics, and when on to get a masters degree in physics.  He has never worked as a physicist, but the education he had allowed gave him the math and critical thinking skills he needed to pursue various careers.  His career path took many unexpected turns due to the Vietnam War draft, needing to help care for an il family member, and many other things along the way.  

 

I think children need to be realistic about career goals; few will turn out to be a rock star, a model, or a professional golfer.  But even those I know who did major in something realistic with specific career goals often did not end up doing that.  I have my friend who went to med school and about 10 years into being a surgeon had a debilitating disease that prevents him from doing that (it isn't just dancers, athletes, and artists that have to worry about physical problems interfering with their chosen career).  I have another friend who went pre-med only to never go to med schools because he DID become a rock star.  My friend who majored in geriatrics is now admissions director at a major university.  My friend who majored in marketing went back and got a certificate to be an elementary school teacher.  My friend who majored in early elementary education now runs a successful small business that has nothing to do with education.  

 

[katilac]

 . However, one thing DD does not do is let people read her writing. Taking that a step further, the idea that someone would edit her writing was horrifying. So, she eliminated creative writing as a degree program.

 

 

 

Good call  :lol:

[JanetC]

The conversation turn to careers is relevant at our household right now. DD is doing scholarship applications that ask her to describe her college and career plans. She's always done curiosity driven science (unless there's a practical use for understanding the craters and dunes on Mars that I am unaware of!).

 

I haven't been bothered by the fact that she doesn't know what she'll do with her degree if she doesn't pursue science graduate school. I'm sure she'll gain technical skills she can put to use somewhere. But she's worried about it. I don't think she's worried about it to the extent that she'd give up studying the things she's passionate about yet, but it concerns me. It's also hard for me to guide her on how to write a career plan essay based on "lt'll work out in the end somehow."

[dereksurfs]

The conversation turn to careers is relevant at our household right now. DD is doing scholarship applications that ask her to describe her college and career plans. She's always done curiosity driven science (unless there's a practical use for understanding the craters and dunes on Mars that I am unaware of!).

 

I haven't been bothered by the fact that she doesn't know what she'll do with her degree if she doesn't pursue science graduate school. I'm sure she'll gain technical skills she can put to use somewhere. But she's worried about it. I don't think she's worried about it to the extent that she'd give up studying the things she's passionate about yet, but it concerns me. It's also hard for me to guide her on how to write a career plan essay based on "lt'll work out in the end somehow."

 

That's right, the college and scholarship essays. I wasn't aware that some of them require addressing career goals as they might relate to one's major. At the very least it causing them to think through some possible work related scenarios even if those aren't on the top of one's 'fun things to do' list.

 

When our son was filling out an application for a STEM internship through the Navy, he was asked similar questions. Though he has not decided upon a single major. So, I asked him to pick his top areas of interest (computer science, robotics, math and physics). Then research specific careers related to those and pick several which stood out to him more than the others. I think that helped him to begin the mental shift from academics to vocational application. Otherwise its harder when simply thinking 'I like studying physics because its cool and fascinating.'

[Lilaclady]

I posted this on the thread about math and saw it can be relevant here too. It details that almost 30 %!of math majors change their majors

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2017/12/08/nearly-third-students-change-major-within-three-years-math-majors-most

[Bootsie]

I posted this on the thread about math and saw it can be relevant here too. It details that almost 30 %!of math majors change their majors

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2017/12/08/nearly-third-students-change-major-within-three-years-math-majors-most

I don't find this surprising.  Many students who enter college knowing they like math haven't had coursework in some of the areas they may switch to--actuarial science, statistics, economics, or finance.  Once they have a course with a lot of math applications, they may choose to change majors.  

 

Also, large groups of other majors, such as "business" are lumped together.  So, a student who changes from accounting to marketing would not be counted as "changing majors" in this study.  

[Crimson Wife]

I meant in the context of a college education. Sorry if I was unclear.

 

I just wouldn't tell my kid, "I'll only pay for college if you major in X."

 

I wouldn't either.

 

However, we are more inclined to help pay for a top private school for the aspiring engineer than the aspiring linguist. UC Berkeley and UCLA are great schools, but if DS got accepted to a school like Stanford, MIT, CalTech, or Carnegie Mellon we would try to figure out a way to help him go. The ROI calculation is very different for an engineering major vs. a humanities major.

 

[dereksurfs]

I wouldn't either.

 

However, we are more inclined to help pay for a top private school for the aspiring engineer than the aspiring linguist. UC Berkeley and UCLA are great schools, but if DS got accepted to a school like Stanford, MIT, CalTech, or Carnegie Mellon we would try to figure out a way to help him go. The ROI calculation is very different for an engineering major vs. a humanities major.

 

 

Yes, especially if the cost ends up being 2x-5x more!

[daijobu]

If there are any worried parents of theater majors on this thread, I can share an anecdote from a party I attended a few weeks ago.  An aspiring movie maker who had been making ends meet by teaching film-making to local homeschoolers, landed a job at a large technology company you may have heard of.  He now creates videos of people playing video games.  He loves this work.  The technology people who make and market these video components accord him a lot of respect for his skills.  And people watch and love his work.  

 

You never know what can happen.  

[catz]

If there are any worried parents of theater majors on this thread, I can share an anecdote from a party I attended a few weeks ago.  An aspiring movie maker who had been making ends meet by teaching film-making to local homeschoolers, landed a job at a large technology company you may have heard of.  He now creates videos of people playing video games.  He loves this work.  The technology people who make and market these video components accord him a lot of respect for his skills.  And people watch and love his work.  

 

You never know what can happen.  

 

Great story.  I have a kid who wants to major in music.  The "regular" people we know working in the performing arts are people who have excellent soft and business and people skills who are willing to be jack of all trades.  They may be performing, teaching, composing/sriting, working in or starting a non-profit, auditioning, applying for grants, learning tech skills, are willing to explore many genres and applications, etc.  I'm completely fine with my kids majoring in whatever and we will be helping them financially.   Graduating our kids with low to no debt of their own is definitely a goal.  That said, we will not take on debt either most likely.  Luckily we have some money to work with and our mortgage will be paid before our oldest hit college. 

[eternalsummer]

If there are any worried parents of theater majors on this thread, I can share an anecdote from a party I attended a few weeks ago.  An aspiring movie maker who had been making ends meet by teaching film-making to local homeschoolers, landed a job at a large technology company you may have heard of.  He now creates videos of people playing video games.  He loves this work.  The technology people who make and market these video components accord him a lot of respect for his skills.  And people watch and love his work.  

 

You never know what can happen.  

 

I have another anecdote: my sister got a musical theater degree from Stephens College, a pretty good school for theater.  It cost about $100k altogether, I think.  My parents refinanced the house and took out loans; my mom will be paying these loans when she dies.  

 

My sister moved to NYC and gets acting gigs on occasion.  I think once or twice they've been paid!

 

What she does for a living is nanny for rich people's kids.  

 

I don't dispute my mom's right to spend $100k on my sister's college education; it was her money (well, mostly borrowed, but her money to borrow I guess) and she's free to buy a musical theater degree or a boat or a trip to Nepal with it, none of my business.  But I don't think it would have been unreasonable for her to say, wait, you're not  that good an actress (my sister isn't and wasn't), you didn't get into any of the top auditioned schools in the industry or get offered any significant scholarships, there's really not a ton of indication or evidence that this degree will help you acquire a career in acting.  I don't want to spend $100k on it; figure out something else.

 

I would tend to see both responses as valid, honestly.

[catz]

I have another anecdote: my sister got a musical theater degree from Stephens College, a pretty good school for theater.  It cost about $100k altogether, I think.  My parents refinanced the house and took out loans; my mom will be paying these loans when she dies.  

 

My sister moved to NYC and gets acting gigs on occasion.  I think once or twice they've been paid!

 

What she does for a living is nanny for rich people's kids.  

 

I don't dispute my mom's right to spend $100k on my sister's college education; it was her money (well, mostly borrowed, but her money to borrow I guess) and she's free to buy a musical theater degree or a boat or a trip to Nepal with it, none of my business.  But I don't think it would have been unreasonable for her to say, wait, you're not  that good an actress (my sister isn't and wasn't), you didn't get into any of the top auditioned schools in the industry or get offered any significant scholarships, there's really not a ton of indication or evidence that this degree will help you acquire a career in acting.  I don't want to spend $100k on it; figure out something else.

 

I would tend to see both responses as valid, honestly.

 

Oh I don't disagree with this being problematic.  The problem I see here is your mom borrowed 100K.  Which I agree is her choice.  But if she truly doesn't have the ability to pay that off quickly, money can quickly become a source of stress and strife when aging parents reach retirement age or have a health crises.  It is at least as big of a gift to your kids to not have them stressing about your finances as you age as financing a super high quality education.  There are options at many price points.  If we were in this situation, I would absolutely been looking for the lowest cost situation possible.  I would contribute what I could, and any loans would be the student's responsibility. 

 

My kid has been doing community to some paid, professional theater/acting opportunities for a number of years now.  I've seen less than stellar actor theater majors come out of college and be fundamental to arts programming in communities and for kids.  I've seen regularly working professionals crash and burn.  I have a degree in comp sci and I have seen people burn out on that and do something more artistic.  I've seen people do well in theater that don't have deep acting skill, but have a lot of professional connections.  I just don't think there is a great way to predict the direction life will take young adult. 

 

Both my kids do theater, but getting a theater degree and especially a BFA is so specialized I would not encourage that for my kids and where their strengths lie.  And to another point, many of the most successful theater actors I know in our metro (which has strong arts and one of the strongest theater seats per capita) have varied backgrounds anyway.   Lin Manuel Miranda (writer/actor Hamilton) got a BA in theater studies from Wesleyan University and worked as an English teacher for a time.  Sara Bareilles (song writer/actress Waitress) has a degree in Communication Studies from UCLA.  She participated in music groups in college.  

 

Edited December 10, 2017 by WoolySocks

[Crimson Wife]

We'd pay for a theater or art degree from UCLA as 2 years in-state tuition isn't THAT expensive. I would definitely encourage a business minor at the very least, however. There are a lot of jobs in the entertainment industry but most of them are behind-the-scenes. My brother's fiancee is a lawyer and made a good salary working at a talent agency before she decided to switch to a different field of legal practice.

[bettyandbob]

I have another anecdote: my sister got a musical theater degree from Stephens College, a pretty good school for theater.  It cost about $100k altogether, I think.  My parents refinanced the house and took out loans; my mom will be paying these loans when she dies.  

 

My sister moved to NYC and gets acting gigs on occasion.  I think once or twice they've been paid!

 

What she does for a living is nanny for rich people's kids.  

 

I don't dispute my mom's right to spend $100k on my sister's college education; it was her money (well, mostly borrowed, but her money to borrow I guess) and she's free to buy a musical theater degree or a boat or a trip to Nepal with it, none of my business.  But I don't think it would have been unreasonable for her to say, wait, you're not  that good an actress (my sister isn't and wasn't), you didn't get into any of the top auditioned schools in the industry or get offered any significant scholarships, there's really not a ton of indication or evidence that this degree will help you acquire a career in acting.  I don't want to spend $100k on it; figure out something else.

 

I would tend to see both responses as valid, honestly.

 

 

I would not have a problem with my dc getting a theater degree. I would not encourage borrowing a large sum of money for any degree and would not borrow on my child's behalf. 

 

If attending an elite school could be done for a small amount of loans then borrowing could be worthwhile, but 100K is too much. That kind of debt can hamper career choices and opportunities. Not only does the graduate need to find jobs that have good entry level salaries, some positions may not consider applicants with significant debt. 

[katilac]

 

You never know what can happen.  

 

You definitely never know what can happen, but I think you have to play the odds in life. If you are going to be an artist, an actor, a teacher, you need to work on the theory that you will not be making much money. And if that's okay with you, great! And if you take a career turn like this one, also great. 

 

 The ROI calculation is very different for an engineering major vs. a humanities major.

 

 

I never quite get this one. The return on investment doesn't benefit you, you are spending x amount of money regardless of whether the student goes on to earn lots of money or not. Future engineers can go to many excellent schools that cost a lot less but still result in excellent pay and an excellent career. From what I have seen, getting into a tippy-top school is actually even more important to the drama major, for the very practical reason that, at schools like Carnegie Mellon, professional agents from New York, Los Angeles, and other performing arts cities attend the senior showcase and make actual job offers. 

 

I have two dds: the one double-majoring in business fields with emphasis on foreign languages and math, and the one likely majoring in art, lol. In my other post, I talked about how the art major knows we expect at least a contrasting minor, we are making her aware of the practical aspects, and so on. But I just can't see refusing to fund her education at a similar level to dd1, simply because she isn't likely to make as much money. 

 

If we had the kind of money that would pay for Stanford (we don't, lol), we would still try to be equitable about distributing funds. We have less of a 'college fund' and more of a 'getting established' fund. So we might send one kid to an expensive school, while another kid goes to a cheaper school but gets a 'fifth year' partially funded so they can work as a full-time artist or actor or whatever. It's not a dollar-for-dollar type thing - if they are at the same school, we aren't going to give the kid with more scholarships additional cash, because that's not completely in their control (a student can improve scores with prep, but can't push themselves into the top percentile by hard work alone). 

 

I am really rambling here, but I'm going to leave it in case it makes sense to anyone. The gist of it is, I would never spend $500,000 on one kid because they are going to be an engineer, and $50,000 on another kid because they are going to be an artist or a teacher. My kids will get roughly the same amount of help getting launched, whether that be via expensive college, cheap college and fifth year, no college and help starting a business, whatever. The specifics are discussed along the way. 

 

Of course, I also don't understand requiring a very young adult to pay rent because they choose to work instead of going to college. That means you are taking money from one kid, while giving a great deal of money to another kid (the college student). That doesn't seem quite fair, lol. 

 

One more random thought: it could easily be argued that funding a future teacher or social worker does more for the greater good than funding a future engineer or business executive. 

Edited December 11, 2017 by katilac

[Crimson Wife]

 If we had the kind of money that would pay for Stanford (we don't, lol), we would still try to be equitable about distributing funds. We have less of a 'college fund' and more of a 'getting established' fund. So we might send one kid to an expensive school, while another kid goes to a cheaper school but gets a 'fifth year' partially funded so they can work as a full-time artist or actor or whatever. It's not a dollar-for-dollar type thing - if they are at the same school, we aren't going to give the kid with more scholarships additional cash, because that's not completely in their control (a student can improve scores with prep, but can't push themselves into the top percentile by hard work alone). 

 

I am really rambling here, but I'm going to leave it in case it makes sense to anyone. The gist of it is, I would never spend $500,000 on one kid because they are going to be an engineer, and $50,000 on another kid because they are going to be an artist or a teacher. My kids will get roughly the same amount of help getting launched, whether that be via expensive college, cheap college and fifth year, no college and help starting a business, whatever. The specifics are discussed along the way. 

 

Of course, I also don't understand requiring a very young adult to pay rent because they choose to work instead of going to college. That means you are taking money from one kid, while giving a great deal of money to another kid (the college student). That doesn't seem quite fair, lol. 

 

One more random thought: it could easily be argued that funding a future teacher or social worker does more for the greater good than funding a future engineer or business executive. 

 

Because I would expect to help out the future teacher or social worker more financially on an ongoing basis as an adult than the future engineer.

 

If our EFC would be $36k/year, that's $144k for 4 years at a private school vs. around $33k for 2 years at a UC school + 2 years at community college . For a child who isn't aiming at a super-lucrative career, it makes sense to save the money on college and then help out more towards a down payment on a house. The engineer should be making enough to not need that assistance.

 

[wapiti]

Just adding a major-related article I happened upon.  https://www.morganstanley.com/articles/wall-st-recruits-non-finance-degrees

 

Wanted: Non-Finance Recruits Who Can See the Forest from the Trees.

 

Why do financial firms value recruits with degrees as far removed from finance as philosophy and music?

 

The caveat at the end (what campuses do they recruit at):

 

One thing that will be familiar to graduates from most non-finance fields, is that for many graduates, breaking into the business starts with participation in one of our campus recruiting programs. The majority of firms hire from their pools of summer analysts and associates. For these programs we generally receive hundreds of applications and we scour those applications people with potential.  How to stand out among the crowd, is a whole other story.

 

 

 

[katilac]

For a child who isn't aiming at a super-lucrative career, it makes sense to save the money on college and then help out more towards a down payment on a house. The engineer should be making enough to not need that assistance.

 

 

Ah, we are actually in agreement! 

[MarkT]

 

DD#1 (junior in high school) is undecided, but knows what she loves (math, languages). IMO, she hasn't experienced enough different classes to really know what major she'll ultimately want, so I keep trying to steer her toward classes to open her up to other opportunities & majors other than "just" math or "just" Spanish. But, how much should I steer toward broadening her horizons:  "take an economics class, take a programming class" vs. just letting her find her own way? How much do I suggest a second major (that has more marketable jobs associated with it)? To be clear, even if she goes in undecided, she may change her major a couple of times on the way and I'm okay with that as long as she understands the $$ involved.

I would recommend that you try a few of these out next summer as a "micro-course"  of about 2 weeks.

She could do some Python programming and see if she "likes it", "it's OK" or "does not like it all".  These days college should never be the first place you attempt programming.  You could probably do something similar in Economics as well. You should be able to get all the materials via your local library or the Web (Kahn academy, MOOCs, etc).

 

Dabble now while it is cheap or free.

[8filltheheart]

I would recommend that you try a few of these out next summer as a "micro-course" of about 2 weeks.

She could do some Python programming and see if she likes it, "it's OK" and does not like it all. These days college should never be the first place you attempt programming. You could probably do something similar in Economics as well. You should be able to get all the materials via your local library or the Web (Kahn academy, MOOCs, etc).

 

Dabble now while is cheap or free.

My 10th grader is using a book to teach herself Python. It amazes me just how much she loves programming. It is one of her favorite classes and she had zero interest when she started.

 

My language loving Dd really enjoyed Econ her sr yr. (She is enjoying accounting this yr as a freshman.)

 

I think those are good courses to consider exploring during high school. They don't know if they have never been exposed. ;)

Edited December 12, 2017 by 8FillTheHeart

[kewb]

We steered our kids towards schools with strong liberal arts programs because neither seem particularly passionate about any subject of study. This way they would be free to discover their passion. Ds is in his sophomore year and has decided to change from Occupational Therapy to Sociology. After my initial thought of "what are you going to do with that?" I reminded myself that this is his life and as easy as it is for me to say what he should do I am not living his life.

[MerryAtHope]

We steered our kids towards schools with strong liberal arts programs because neither seem particularly passionate about any subject of study. This way they would be free to discover their passion. Ds is in his sophomore year and has decided to change from Occupational Therapy to Sociology. After my initial thought of "what are you going to do with that?" I reminded myself that this is his life and as easy as it is for me to say what he should do I am not living his life.

 

Good for you! It's hard sometimes I know :-).

[Kassia]

My 10th grader is using a book to teach herself Python. It amazes me just how much she loves programming. It is one of her favorite classes and she had zero interest when she started.

 

 

 

Can you share what book she is using?

[klmama]

I'd love to know the name of the Python book, too. 

 

After all of the changes with my oldest, I just said, "Okay" when my freshman informed me yesterday that the current (very practical) major may not last long.  Until and unless dc wants to drop the required courses for that major which dc already registered to take this spring, I don't see any point in wasting emotional energy in discussion.    

[mirabillis]

I'm going to take a very different tack here. For me, college is about much more than just the major/the career you've set your sights on. To me, college is about the experience, the chance to grow, the chance to grow up, the chance to make new friends, develop new interests, and hopefully by 4 or so-year end, have met their partner in life. That's how it was for me. I majored in art b/c that's what I loved. My daughter does too, and I will strongly suggest it. It was a great and fun major. I studied abroad, b/c I wanted to - not for any grand career motives, but b/c it was fun. And now to this day, I love travel. My dh & I are entrepreneurs, so once meeting him in college, I have never worked a real jobby-job since. We are serial entrepreneurs, and that's what we will teach our children. No matter what your major, it's about how you can find a way to work for yourself, to create your own destiny. We will help them along the way in this regard. Whether it's opening a brick-and-mortar store (my dd's current dream), being a lawyer (ds's current love), or starting up an online website, real estate investing or owning and operating a plumbing business, for us it's about having them be self-starters, learning how to market themselves, and starting their own thing. So for us, college is about the experience and that will be our goal.

[Crimson Wife]

I'm going to take a very different tack here. For me, college is about much more than just the major/the career you've set your sights on. To me, college is about the experience, the chance to grow, the chance to grow up, the chance to make new friends, develop new interests, and hopefully by 4 or so-year end, have met their partner in life. That's how it was for me. I majored in art b/c that's what I loved. My daughter does too, and I will strongly suggest it. It was a great and fun major. I studied abroad, b/c I wanted to - not for any grand career motives, but b/c it was fun. And now to this day, I love travel. My dh & I are entrepreneurs, so once meeting him in college, I have never worked a real jobby-job since. We are serial entrepreneurs, and that's what we will teach our children. No matter what your major, it's about how you can find a way to work for yourself, to create your own destiny. We will help them along the way in this regard. Whether it's opening a brick-and-mortar store (my dd's current dream), being a lawyer (ds's current love), or starting up an online website, real estate investing or owning and operating a plumbing business, for us it's about having them be self-starters, learning how to market themselves, and starting their own thing. So for us, college is about the experience and that will be our goal.

 

That's what it was for me as well, but times were different. Tuition is much, much higher now while basic costs like housing and healthcare means a middle-class salary doesn't go remotely as far as it did two decades ago. 4 years at a residential college studying purely for interest without consideration of post-graduation salaries is a luxury that few can afford these days.

[8filltheheart]

Can you share what book she is using?

  

I'd love to know the name of the Python book, too. 

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1435455002/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[creekland]

So for us, college is about the experience and that will be our goal.

 

This is us too, but that piece of paper that qualifies them for oodles of jobs afterward helps too.  Still, if they never need/use that piece of paper, we're ok with it.  No one can ever take away the experience (academic, life, fun, etc) they had along the way.

 

This is not the same as telling someone to go into 6 figure debt for the experience.  

[daijobu]

  

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1435455002/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

I'm glad to see someone else is using this book.  Other books specifically target kids, and while this doesn't, the assignments are writing programs to create different games, which makes them appealing to adults and children alike.   Note: we only used about the first half of the book, but it was a solid amount of information.  

[mirabillis]

This is us too, but that piece of paper that qualifies them for oodles of jobs afterward helps too.  Still, if they never need/use that piece of paper, we're ok with it.  No one can ever take away the experience (academic, life, fun, etc) they had along the way.

 

This is not the same as telling someone to go into 6 figure debt for the experience.  

 

agreed. plan is to try for more economical state schools - or garner enough aid/scholarships to make it cheap. i am hopeful of NMSF and then look also to see what schools offer full rides. a free education is better than a 6-figure one! ;-)