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#1 bethben

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 11:27 AM

Anyone ever had a child in which the classroom made the child so stressed that they were developing physical symptoms? My dd has developed a verbal tic due to stress. It was to the point last night that she had trouble getting to sleep. She’s had it before after major surgeries. All the classrooms are packed to the max so I’m not sure a classroom change can happen. I am going to see about if it can though. She is begging me to change classrooms.


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#2 Heigh Ho

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 02:19 PM

Yes.  If the teacher is willing to work with you, start there. If not, call the school psych or principal.

In the meantime, feel free to remove your dc for all or part of the day.  Safety comes first.


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#3 Lecka

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 02:42 PM

No.... I would also ask to talk to the school counselor, or, depending when you can talk to the classroom teacher -- ask the classroom teacher if you can talk to the school counselor or anyone else in the school who would work with students who have anxiety. 

 

My oldest son had some anxiety when he was younger and the school counselor was the helpful person for that, she would recommend things to the classroom teacher. 

 

Ime there would be things on the school side that I think the school would try before a classroom change.  A classroom change is going to be disruptive to your daughter, when maybe things can be solved in her current classroom.

 

If you know you don't want to go that way you probably are looking more at talking to the principal. 

 

But ask any parents locally I think this is different at different schools. 

 

If things are going downhill I personally don't know how long I would leave her there when you want to homeschool anyway in general. 

 

BUT I am going to caution you that at this point you have, I think, ONLY heard your daughter's version of events and your daughter's impressions.  How open are you to hearing the teacher's version? 

 

Just frex -- one of my kids has told me things like -- "the teacher wouldn't let me do x" -- and then I talk to the teacher and my son never asked.  Frex my son told me didn't have time to check his answers and that is why he got some low grades, and then his teacher told me that he could have more time and that *she had announced that to the class on multiple occasions.*  Frex my son has really made some things sound dramatically bad and then I hear the teacher's version and talk to him again and he agrees with what the teacher said, he just looks at it differently. 

 

I definitely don't believe teachers over my kids.  But I also don't think my children have the maturity or judgment to always give me an accurate and unbiased account, and they also may not have done as good a job at problem-solving as they could have. 

 

So anyway ----- I think you can be open to the idea that you are premature in wanting a classroom change.

 

But at the same time -- if the writing is on the wall that things are not going well -- I don't know how much you want to waste time and energy dealing with the school, because it will be aggravating.  It is for people who are overall happy with the school or value a school experience for their children.  And I don't think that's you, and then ----- I am not sure it is worth the aggravation. 


Edited by Lecka, 29 November 2017 - 02:43 PM.


#4 Paige

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 02:43 PM

If you have a diagnosis of anxiety you can get a 504 or IEP to help her. Some accommodations could be seating by the door, a pass to see the nurse whenever she wants, no questions asked (for a break), a secret signal with the teacher for when she's stressed or needs to go to the bathroom, and there's a few more. My DDs have accommodations like these and while they almost never use any of them, just having them available has eased their stress tremendously. 


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#5 Lecka

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 02:44 PM

Maybe school psychologist is the person and not school counselor ----- I think it will depend on the school.  Something like that though -- whoever it is at the school who works with kids with anxiety, or things like that. 

 

 



#6 Lecka

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 02:49 PM

Really -- I think there are two extreme possibilities, and then points in-between.

 

One is the classroom fit is very, very poor for your daughter, and she would be completely fine in a different classroom.

 

Two is the classroom is well-run and supportive, appropriately structured for the age, etc, and your daughter is very, very anxious. 

 

And then ---- there is the middle where your daughter would be okay with a little better/different classroom, or she would be less anxious, etc. 

 

And when you go to talk to the school ------ they are going to have their own impression of what they think is going on.  And that impression will either be something you can work with, or it will be something that makes you very mad because it just doesn't fit with what you know about your child. 



#7 bethben

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 03:22 PM

My dd isn't anxious, she's on the edge of furious.  I always have taken what my dd says happens in the classroom with some skepticism only due to the fact that she's watching things happen with limited perspective.  I've emailed the teacher to clarify some things she said happened or wasn't taught just to make sure she was accurate in what she thought (there have been times when she hasn't).  We've worked through bully situations, why some adult workers have yelled at her (she wasn't following the rules), and why some adults seem mean to her.  All good.  

 

Here's what has gotten her to the stressed point.  Her class is noisy.  There are some in the classroom that just won't behave.  I'm not sure how much of the problem is my daughter, but she has told me when she gets in trouble (it's been a handful of times - usually she's trying to get someone to be quiet because the teacher is talking --We've worked through how to stop that).  For example, The teacher will write FUN FRIDAY on the board telling the class what will happen on Friday if they listen.  My dd looks very much forward to these rewards.  The class (or maybe a handful of kids) create enough chaos that they lose FUN FRIDAY usually by Monday afternoon (the class has earned it once in four months).  Then the teacher has no reward power.   Then, they have personal points they can earn for helping to control class chaos or just doing something well.  If the class in general is behaving badly, the whole class can lose points off their personal reward.  My dd who is very justice orientated gets mad about losing everything she's worked for and everything that could be fun.  Now again, she may be part of the problem and just doesn't see it that way.  She stuffs her anger because she knows it's not appropriate to rant and rave in school.  This is what is causing her to blow up at home and get the verbal tics going.  

 

No, I am not invested in this school.  I really really wanted it to work and my standards are so very minimal.  I have let go of most everything I think a good education is and have kept it to if she learns math and how to write, I'll be good.  These are both subjects I am reteaching her at home because either she didn't grasp the instruction or didn't hear it properly.  Sometimes, it's just bad bad bad curriculum.  We are not returning next year for sure.  My dh feels like she should stay for the rest of the year.  I have emailed the teacher to start problem solving and have put a call into the school counselor.  



#8 Lecka

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 03:55 PM

It is way too early in the year to just finish the year out on principle, imo. It's only November!

I think the Fun Friday thing being taken away so early, I would consider emailing about with a cc to the principal, especially if you are going to try for changing teachers.

Does your daughter have trouble with hearing properly or noise in any other places? They might ask you if they don't think it is an unusually noisy classroom. But they also might move her to a classroom that is kept quieter. Some teachers vary and then for kids who do better with a quieter room sometimes they will try to put them in a quieter room. That is not playing favorites with a certain teacher.

#9 Lecka

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 03:59 PM

This may be different where you are; but if you definitely want a classroom change then you would cc the principal for any email with this teacher bc it is the principal who would approve or disapprove changing classrooms.

#10 bethben

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 04:01 PM

She has mild hearing loss in one ear along with some ADD most likely.  So, extra noise and chaos in a classroom - even a bit will cause her to not be able to learn as well and miss instruction which I think is also happening.  The thing is, even if we solve this issue this year, we could be facing the same exact thing next year.  I'm pretty much done with this experiment.



#11 Heigh Ho

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 04:08 PM

Both of my dc had that trouble at ten.  The misbehaving read that plan quickly...."I got the power, I get to choose if there is FUN FRIDAY". They went on to a battle for control for everything. Who wouldn't? You get to control the teacher and the classmates you don't like, you don't have to do your classwork  and you get to go to summer school plus on to the next grade.

 

You need a competent psych, principal, or superintendent who knows about positive behavior interventions.  Pull your child if you can't find sanity somewhere up the ladder, I can tell you from experience there is no point in attending if the team isn't going to help this teacher out. 

 

With documented mild hearing loss, is the team using an FM mic with her?  sounds like they should be. Its not going to help to avoid noisy enviroments, you've got to give her tools for life for these settings.


Edited by Heigh Ho, 29 November 2017 - 04:12 PM.

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#12 Lecka

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 04:37 PM

It *does* exist to place kids who need a quiet classroom into a teacher's class who keeps a quiet classroom. Now I don't know if they'll do it, but they might.

If a lot of this comes from the hearing loss ---- that is huge for you in talking to them and explaining why it is causing a problem for your daughter.

I would definitely mention that!

#13 Lecka

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 04:39 PM

Ime that Fun Friday situation would be fixed by the principal once the principal knew about it. The principals aren't mind-readers.

It is egregious but in a good school it would be fixed by the principal.

#14 Lecka

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 04:42 PM

I have had a child have a second-year teacher and at about this point in the year get a note home about how the class will be starting a new discipline policy ---- yeah that is the teacher getting some positive help and feedback. But that is a good thing! And I think with that things can turn around pretty fast to be honest.

Without something like that ---- I agree with pp.

But I am ---- someone who would give things a chance and be okay with it, for a lot of things, and I am, but for a child having this much stress I would want a strong response from school or I would be very inclined to wash my hands of it.

I think ask your husband what would count as a good-faith effort for him if there is something that would work for him, that if the situation continues without improving you would agree to pull her. That is the kind of thing we do. But my husband usually talks me down and then I feel better after seeing how things resolve (as we have been fortunate to have things resolve when I have been upset -- which is not guaranteed but we have been fortunate so far).

Edited by Lecka, 29 November 2017 - 04:47 PM.


#15 justasque

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 05:28 PM

...We are not returning next year for sure.  My dh feels like she should stay for the rest of the year.  I have emailed the teacher to start problem solving and have put a call into the school counselor.  

 

If things continue to go badly, the winter break would be a good compromise time to pull her out. 
I once left one in, on the general "finish what you've started" principal, and it took quite some time to undo the damage.

Just because she comes out now, doesn't mean she stays out forever.  Several years down the line she will be older, more mature, more able to put up with minor issues, and more able to advocate for her own needs around the major issues.


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#16 Lecka

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 05:54 PM

I agree -- winter break is a lot better time frame to see if things improve. There's no reason to give it another 5-6 months (!!!!!!) after that if things haven't improved.
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#17 eternalsummer

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 11:28 PM

I would also pull after Christmas.  

 

That said, while I personally loathe and loathed general punishments for other kids' behavior and losing rewards because of other kids' behavior (and similarly, grades for group work - just a recipe for the smartest, hardest working kid, or the only one who cares about grades, to do 4 kids' worth of work), I think it's probably a pretty integral part of b&m schooling and has been since the dawn of time.  Kids who are in a public school from K up get used to it and resent it less (well, some of them, anyway, I think).  

 

So while I don't think your daughter is out of line, or shouldn't feel the way she feels, I think the school may say to themselves, jeez, everyone else puts up with this system, this kid needs to just give it up already.

 

In which case, take her out yesterday :)

 

FWIW, there may be a quieter classroom option - when DD12 was in K (in PS), she was in the quiet class - the other class had a teacher who couldn't manage the kids, and they were (reported by the mom of a kid in that class) constantly loud and the teacher yelled all day.  They actually got rid of her at semester, which was surprising - must have been a lot of complaints.



#18 JBJones

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 11:42 PM

I would remove her immediately; she sounds extremely stressed out. You stated she's on the edge of furious. I'm sorry, it's just that your post brings back rotten memories of when I removed my daughter. Good luck to your child.


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#19 Lecka

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Posted 30 November 2017 - 12:25 AM

There is more effective classroom management now, I don't think it's something kids are expected to put up with in general. Some things kids are expected to put up with -- but if teachers are going to do this kind of thing and not have complaints -- they follow through on the punishment 1-2 times in the beginning of the year and then never need to again because the class is doing well. If the teacher can't pull that off with this method -- yeah they are expected to deal with individual students and be effective.

That kind of stuff comes up more with "specials" teachers like the art or PE teacher who aren't with the class all the time.

It is bizarre to me for a classroom teacher.

It isn't just what kids are expected to deal with at b & m school at all.

I agree with pp about PBIS, too. It's good if someone at the school does it, and much better than this.

Between one thing or another my kids have been in 5 buildings of elementary schools (Im counting one I went in for pre-school speech and one for special needs pre-school) and I would expect the principal at any of these schools to fix this, and I believe it would most likely be effectively fixed at any of these schools with involvement from the principal.

It's not effective classroom management and kids need it to learn and even just for safety for following directions.

Edited by Lecka, 30 November 2017 - 12:31 AM.

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#20 EKS

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Posted 30 November 2017 - 09:09 AM

She has mild hearing loss in one ear along with some ADD most likely.  So, extra noise and chaos in a classroom - even a bit will cause her to not be able to learn as well and miss instruction which I think is also happening.  The thing is, even if we solve this issue this year, we could be facing the same exact thing next year.  I'm pretty much done with this experiment.

 

Does she have a 504 plan for this?  If not, she should. A simple accommodation would be to move her to a quieter classroom. 

 

I've found that when asking for accommodations it is best to target ones that don't really require much of the school, and a classroom change is easy for them. 


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#21 Lecka

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Posted 30 November 2017 - 10:01 AM

Going back to what I said yesterday about group punishments ----- I do agree that there is an expectation that kids deal with group punishments when it is things like:  a specials teacher, kids misbehaving on the bus, kids misbehaving in the cafeteria, etc, kinds of things where kids aren't so supervised or aren't with their usual teacher or group. Also things like everybody cleaning up even if they didn't make the mess -- that can be expected at times, too. 

 

But for example, on my daughter's bus the bus driver pulls over if kids are out of their seat, and it happens before our stop and sometimes her bus is 5 minutes late.  Now I think the bus driver gives a bus referral to the principal, too, and the principal gets involved, too.  But that is a group punishment for kids who are riding the bus ---- and I do think that is a normal expectation, that all the kids are getting punished by the bus pulling over. 

 

But ---- the thing is, my expectation is that once in a while (aka twice a month) the bus driver pulls the bus over.  And then the kids are like "oh this is serious" and then whoever is standing up sits down or kids get more quiet, whatever. 

 

My expectation is not ---- the bus driver pulls over for long periods, all the time, and still kids act in unsafe ways on the bus because the method is ineffective and nothing is dealt with as far as individual kids who may need some more intervention. 

 

That to me is ineffective and just because I am fine with thinking maybe my daughter is part of a group punishment on her bus for 5 minutes 1-2 times a month, but that overall her bus ride is safe and kids are acting appropriately ---------- that doesn't mean I'm okay with stuff that is not working and crosses a line into just being a poor atmosphere. 

 

So the classroom teacher taking away Fun Friday on Monday afternoon ----- that is something I do think would raise red flags with a principal and other parents, etc.  Even though I also think if a parent was complaining about a group punishment of -- let's say "no talking for 5 minutes in the cafeteria, because it got too loud" -- that happened less than once a week -- I do think that would be in a category of "yeah we do expect kids to deal with that."  Even if at the same time -- I also think, there might be better ways to deal with the cafeteria, I don't know. 

 

 


Edited by Lecka, 30 November 2017 - 10:06 AM.

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#22 OrganicJen

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Posted 30 November 2017 - 10:24 AM

Wow in my school growing up, if kids interrupted the teacher or were loud, those individual kids had to go write on the chalkboard multiple times, "I will not interrupt," etc. It was something that did seem to keep the classrooms in control because we all hated to have to write stuff on the board like that. I think to punish all the kids for the behavior of a few is awful and I would be stressed if I were a student in a class like that. On a separate note, my son had displayed some tics years ago that we took him to his pediatrician about and his pediatrician said it was from stress. But years later through an actual neuropsychology exam we learned that he actually has and had tourettes. He also has generalized anxiety disorder...they frequently co-occur. Anyway, tourettes is often misdiagnosed especially since the tics can wax and wane and change. I'm not saying that's what your daughter had, but I'm just putting it out there that we were told our son's tics were just stress, but he actually had a neurologic movement disorder being misdiagnosed.
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#23 Lecka

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Posted 30 November 2017 - 10:39 AM

Now if there were 3-4 kids who always interrupted they would be more likely to get stickers on a sticker chart and "clip up" when they did a good job of not interrupting.  Or at least that would be what they tried first! 

 

I see a lot of ---- all the kids have clips, but only a few kids have sticker charts. 

 

When my oldest son was little they still did "red, yellow, green," but I like the clips better. 

 

Because if kids clip down they can clip up again so fast -- I know it will depend on how people actually implement it, but I like what I have seen/heard. 

 

Edit:  Specifically I like that kids start in the middle and there is room to clip up, so I think it makes teachers more focuses on having kids clip up, which I think creates a really nice, positive atmosphere,  My kids are also happy to clip up but don't mind if other kids are noticed and clip up while they do not. 

 

Edit:  It's like -- every kid has a clothes pin with their name, on a vertical chart, and everyone starts in the middle.  Then you can clip up or down. 


Edited by Lecka, 30 November 2017 - 10:44 AM.


#24 bethben

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Posted 30 November 2017 - 11:11 AM

All I know is that my dd’s teacher just told her she was the best behaved in class. She still many times a week loses things for class discipline. I’m going to try to talk to the teacher. He’s a first year teacher and I know that could be part of the issue, but I also know my seasoned bil has a very chatty class that’s he’s having trouble with also. Sometimes a class is just noisy. I’m trying to meet with the teacher and the counselor. If that doesn’t change anything, then I’m at a loss. My oldest may have to have a major surgery with a three month recovery time. I’ve always felt that if I couldn’t homeschool for some reason, public school would be an option. But what do you do when homeschooling is hard, but the public school isn’t really educating either?


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#25 Lecka

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Posted 30 November 2017 - 11:48 AM

I think you have two different issues, with one the education and one the atmosphere. 

 

I think what you expect for education ----- it's more than I expect.  I think too, if you're homeschooling next year anyway, you can do things how you want then. 

 

The atmosphere/stress I think is different -- I would want to change that quickly or not keep her there. 

 

When I read what you wanted for education ----- it's just more than I want.  Granted I'm also happy with the math instruction.  But writing for a 4th grader -- I just don't care, I don't think it matters very much what kids do for writing in 4th grade, whether or not they are doing the best they could do.  I think if kids are reading and doing something, whatever, then that is good enough for me.

 

But a child being frustrated by how things are, a child stressed and having tics ------- that is not exactly an issue of education, it's that there are problems at the school. 

 

I would have problems with the situation you describe, but I could care less about Latin or writing.  For my 3rd grade daughter I want her reading every day, I want her progressing in math, I want her to have a good experience.  But I don't have goals for her as far as writing or a preference for how she is taught to write.  I just don't care. 

 

Anyway -- I don't think you are really complaining about her education here, to be honest.  It sounds like the school atmosphere is not working.  If the school atmosphere was working ----- maybe you would be okay with the academic side for the rest of the year, or maybe you wouldn't, but if you knew you would be busy with another child recovering from surgery anyway ----- maybe you would be okay with a good atmosphere.  But you don't even have that. 

 

I do think it is really possible for some things to improve.  And if she changes classes, the teacher may be a better math teacher, too, and may give more guidance with the writing assignments, too.

 

First year teachers just aren't going to be as experienced.  They make up for it by being really motivated.  But it sounds like this one isn't making up for it so much!  With another teacher it is hard to say ----- but the teaching level could go way up with math and writing, or it still might not be what you want. 

 

Edit:  You do say other people are happy with the school, and you do have a first-year teacher ------ it's hard to say if it is really all so bad, or if your daughter got stuck with a first-year teacher who doesn't really know how to teach the curriculum, how to manage the class, how much support to provide for this grade level, etc.  Because those are all problems but I think they are pretty teacher-specific. 

 

But it gives a bit of a bad impression of the school, too, if the principal isn't mentoring first-year teachers and the school may not be providing in-service for how to teach the curriculum effectively. 

 

I think you will just have to see what happens when you talk to the counselor and see what happens over the next few weeks! 

 

Edit:  My daughter had a 2nd-year teacher for 1st grade, and she wasn't as good in some ways, didn't handle the class as well, I don't think she taught reading as well as the other 1st grade teachers...... but she was still good overall.  I'm sure she is much better this year and I'm sure she was even worse her first year.  But teachers have to be new some time.  That's the only time any of my kids have had a teacher that new in elementary school, their other teachers have all taught for 10 years or more and have got classroom management down, and know how to teach, and things like that.  They changed math curriculums the year my oldest started K but the teachers liked the new curriculum better, and for 4th-6th they had kids rotate classes so that all the kids had math with the strongest math teacher (and they paid for those math teachers to have extra training, but they didn't have to pay for every teacher to have the training -- so it seemed like it worked out). 

 

So -- details like this might matter, overall, but at the same time ----- I think you have to see what happens, it might not be an acceptable situation for your daughter, right now, and that is too bad when you have got other things you need to do. 


Edited by Lecka, 30 November 2017 - 11:57 AM.


#26 bethben

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Posted 30 November 2017 - 12:01 PM

The math is horrible. It has the potential to be good, but they skip 80% of the workbook (we get the unfinished portion back). She has always struggled with math anyway. Now she just hates it and doesn’t feel like she can do it. I would be ok with the education because I’ve mostly come to conclusion if she learns anything of value this year, great! I do expect that she’ll have to repeat the stuff that matters to me. I given up on the educational aspect. I was of the mindset that she was learning some social nuances and gaining friendships but now that is being compromised also because her class is hearing her “woo” tic mostly likely 30-40 times during the day and are looking at her funny.


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#27 bethben

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Posted 30 November 2017 - 12:10 PM

People think the school is great on reviews but when I started asking questions on the Facebook page about general procedure or expectations, there’s a whole lot of irritation out there to the point I don’t ask questions from parents. Further checking shows 36% grade proficiency in math and 54% grade proficiency in reading which is IMO really bad, but no one seems the blink about that. There is some general feelings that the school has been going downhill for years due to bad administrators. I have no idea. I guess I just expected more than my minimal hopes.


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#28 Sandwalker

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Posted 30 November 2017 - 12:19 PM

I would remove her immediately; she sounds extremely stressed out. You stated she's on the edge of furious. I'm sorry, it's just that your post brings back rotten memories of when I removed my daughter. Good luck to your child.

^^ QFT

#29 Lecka

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Posted 30 November 2017 - 01:14 PM

My older son's school has low proficiency scores like that in reading and math. I don't know what to make of it. We moved here last year and I am new to it.

We got my son's score report in the mail and he scored proficient, but it was difficult for me to make much from it. It wasn't like MAP scores I am used to (that break down scores into areas).

I have an overall good impression of his teachers; I think a few seem very good and none awful. I'm not crazy about his math teacher this year; but the one last year seemed very good.

When I am at the school the atmosphere seems good.

But the proficiency scores are really not good.

I don't know how to explain it; but I don't think this is a bad school like I might think going from 30%-35% proficiency rates.

I like the friends my son has made too, and from moms I have met they are more strict than we are. We have expectations about grades and doing homework. My son does say that there are some kids who don't do their homework, but I don't know any of their situations. We just haven't lived here that long.

Where we moved from the scores were higher and it was rare for any kid not to do homework; all the parents seemed to expect homework to be done and stay on top of it. But my son went from elementary school there to middle school here.

It is a mystery to me at this point.

I do wonder though if the school does a good job but some parents don't care about homework or grades. But if kids have gotten behind then homework and grades get impossible; so I don't know if that is a reason.

I also wonder if maybe the tests are just really hard here?

Edited by Lecka, 30 November 2017 - 01:17 PM.


#30 Lecka

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Posted 30 November 2017 - 01:19 PM

I think too -- if your upcoming meeting doesn't go well, it doesn't sound good for your daughter. I hope something will work out!

#31 Heigh Ho

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Posted 30 November 2017 - 03:55 PM

My district is now scoring two grade levels below what the average acheivement nationally is for the demographic.  They do it by teaching only enough material for all to pass.

 

To answer your question of what to do when you can't homeschool, and the school is behind academically -- that's called afterschooling.  For 4th and 5th, the key things are: science, math, and reading.  Science you do via scouts, 4H, daily life, and/or community opportunities.  Math you get a program you like and work thru it with your dc during the time you designated for homework (you have ten minutes x grade level scheduled in, right?) if its not a living math (cooking and other household things) type of program.  Reading you also put in the hw time as independent reading, and in your day you have a readaloud going where you have an appropriate discussion.  That's enough to get the grade level objectives done.  The writing will fall into place due to the reading, but to enhance do some oral story telling weekly  You know the game -- each person adds a scene and keeps the story going.  That forces recall, visualization, ordering, planning etc. Write it up and illustrate in the end.


Edited by Heigh Ho, 30 November 2017 - 03:57 PM.


#32 Heigh Ho

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Posted 30 November 2017 - 04:01 PM

For math, there are a lot of things you can do that aren't workbooky and will seem like fun and games to your dc, but will keep her on grade level.  I don't know if this is  fourth or fifth grade, but what I did was SM combined with living math activities and Ed Zaccaro. Zaccaro really appealed, the kid got his confidence back, and then worked solidly thru SM.  The living math activities...lots of fractions using clock, food, car stuff; ratios with car mileage and figuring out food for menu for larger groups, crafts, building models....

 

Also, change her focus from 'losing fun friday' to 'earning fun friday'.  She hasn't lost anything, it was never earned.  Teach her the old trick of quieting those around her when the disruptors get going.  That will spread, to the point that just the gang will be disrupting while everyone else is busy getting their stuff done. It will be easier for the teacher then. She can start by commenting that she'd rather get her work done than have to take it home, lose recess or whatever and plunge in. That will influence some, and she can then ask whoever is noisy next to her to knock it off, as she wants to get her work done so she can go on to whatever they do when they are done -- put the ear protection on and work away.


Edited by Heigh Ho, 30 November 2017 - 05:19 PM.


#33 eternalsummer

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Posted 30 November 2017 - 04:48 PM

The teacher sounds like he's completely incompetent; given all of your concerns, I'd ask DD if she wants to stay past Christmas and if she doesn't, I wouldn't make her.



#34 bethben

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Posted 30 November 2017 - 04:50 PM

She wants to stay because she’s very social and likes that aspect. She gets two recesses so all the chaos is worth it to her.


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#35 OrganicJen

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Posted 30 November 2017 - 04:50 PM

All I know is that my dd’s teacher just told her she was the best behaved in class. She still many times a week loses things for class discipline. I’m going to try to talk to the teacher. He’s a first year teacher and I know that could be part of the issue, but I also know my seasoned bil has a very chatty class that’s he’s having trouble with also. Sometimes a class is just noisy. I’m trying to meet with the teacher and the counselor. If that doesn’t change anything, then I’m at a loss. My oldest may have to have a major surgery with a three month recovery time. I’ve always felt that if I couldn’t homeschool for some reason, public school would be an option. But what do you do when homeschooling is hard, but the public school isn’t really educating either?

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Our public school was the highest rated in the state but it just sucked for us and our son in so many ways and he couldn't learn in that environment, so we homeschool. For us, homeschooling is hard, very hard, but at least he is learning so we deal with how hard it is for us because he is happier and healthier and actually learning now.

#36 bethben

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Posted 30 November 2017 - 05:03 PM

For math, there are a lot of things you can do that aren't workbooky and will seem like fun and games to your dc, but will keep her on grade level.  I don't know if this is  fourth or fifth grade, but what I did was SM combined with living math activities and Ed Zaccaro. Zaccaro really appealed, the kid got his confidence back, and then worked solidly thru SM.  The living math activities...lots of fractions using clock, food, car stuff; ratios with car mileage and figuring out food for menu for larger groups.

 

 

 

I just can't give her more school work.  She's already had a 7 1/2 hour day at school and 30-40 minutes of homework where she's starting to melt down about having so much to do.  I just can't do more with her.  It's not fair that she should have to homeschool AND do public school.  



#37 OrganicJen

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Posted 30 November 2017 - 05:07 PM

She wants to stay because she’s very social and likes that aspect. She gets two recesses so all the chaos is worth it to her.


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Our son is very social too but he has said he gets much more time with his friends since leaving public school to homeschool. At his school the recesses were so short no real socialization could even happen.

#38 OrganicJen

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Posted 30 November 2017 - 05:10 PM

I just can't give her more school work. She's already had a 7 1/2 hour day at school and 30-40 minutes of homework where she's starting to melt down about having so much to do. I just can't do more with her. It's not fair that she should have to homeschool AND do public school.


That's exactly what we went through. He would be in school all day then we had to teach him what the school didn't every night. It's what finally pushed us over the edge to pull him out. Now instead of doing homework in the evenings he's done and can play with his friends when they get home from school.

#39 Heigh Ho

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Posted 30 November 2017 - 05:32 PM

I just can't give her more school work.  She's already had a 7 1/2 hour day at school and 30-40 minutes of homework where she's starting to melt down about having so much to do.  I just can't do more with her.  It's not fair that she should have to homeschool AND do public school.  

 

Is it a meltdown?  If so, its probably sensory overload due to the classroom and nonoptimum eating schedule. One thing you can do is have the teacher send her to a quiet place when his disruptors get going...usually that's a library or the main office.  Also start using ear protection. When she gets home, it will be several hours before her nerves calm...we found swimming and trampoline to be helpful, as well as nature.  Consider a protein snack on arrival.

 

If its a tantrum, tell her the price of going to public school is staying on grade level. She must do her hw and classwork, not follow the fools.  That is part of the bargain of attending.  Additionally, if the school doesn't do its job, she has to work with you over the summer or on weekends because as a responsible parent you must see that she learns.  That is also part of the bargain of attending.  Otherwise, its time to change.  

 

Hw at this level is always reading plus whatever is sent home, to the tune of 10 min x grade level.  Parents job is always involving child in life so they get the concrete basis of what they are studying in arithmetic, and so they get the vocab and reading skills.   So, don't give her schoolwork. GIve her funwork that is helping her develop these life skills for ex ..Monopoly, Clue, cooking helper chores, etc. and continue your nightly read aloud and your conversation.  Use your summer to gap fill...the school will want you to prevent summer slide, so instead of doing busywork, run through SM and gap fill.



#40 eternalsummer

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Posted 30 November 2017 - 06:44 PM

I would try to figure out what you're going to do (assuming you're definitely doing something else for next year, at least) socially-speaking and present that to her as an alternative.  As in, if we homeschool again, Monday we'll be going to park day, Tuesday is co-op, Thursday nights is homeschool choir, and ever Saturday we'll pick up a friend and go on a field trip/adventure.  Social has always been the hard part of homeschooling for us, and I've put them in school before hoping to solve just that one issue (and it sometimes did).  The only social success we've had outside of school has been through overscheduling and/or hanging out with friends made in school and/or finding a nice kid who lives down the street.

 

That said, we never found a workable co-op.  That might really make things good for her.



#41 bethben

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Posted 01 December 2017 - 10:42 AM

Is it a meltdown?  If so, its probably sensory overload due to the classroom and nonoptimum eating schedule. One thing you can do is have the teacher send her to a quiet place when his disruptors get going...usually that's a library or the main office.  Also start using ear protection. When she gets home, it will be several hours before her nerves calm...we found swimming and trampoline to be helpful, as well as nature.  Consider a protein snack on arrival.

 

If its a tantrum, tell her the price of going to public school is staying on grade level. She must do her hw and classwork, not follow the fools.  That is part of the bargain of attending.  Additionally, if the school doesn't do its job, she has to work with you over the summer or on weekends because as a responsible parent you must see that she learns.  That is also part of the bargain of attending.  Otherwise, its time to change.  

 

Hw at this level is always reading plus whatever is sent home, to the tune of 10 min x grade level.  Parents job is always involving child in life so they get the concrete basis of what they are studying in arithmetic, and so they get the vocab and reading skills.   So, don't give her schoolwork. GIve her funwork that is helping her develop these life skills for ex ..Monopoly, Clue, cooking helper chores, etc. and continue your nightly read aloud and your conversation.  Use your summer to gap fill...the school will want you to prevent summer slide, so instead of doing busywork, run through SM and gap fill.

 

She's compliant to finish homework, but sometimes, she's just had enough.  It's a meltdown.  



#42 Lecka

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Posted 01 December 2017 - 11:01 AM

With meltdowns, it can start to be cumulative over time. 

 

The explanation I have seen is the stress chemicals don't completely go away between meltdowns when they are frequent, and then -- it is easier to have them, and a lot harder to get back to neutral for stress chemicals, and it is just not good.

 

If they can find ways to lessen the stressors at school then that is the only way school may work. 



#43 mathnerd

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Posted 01 December 2017 - 12:30 PM

From what you say, you can not homeschool due to the situation with your other kid and this child loves school. You have 2 problems with the current school: academics are not up to your expectations, the classroom management is not up to your expectations.

 

I suggest that you keep her in school because you cannot homeschool at this time. What you need to work on is to solve the 2 issues you have with the school so that her time at school is happier.

 

For the academics, try to get something easy and doable for after schooling. You need not teach her writing at this stage. You can have her listen to audiobooks or readalouds or simply have her read for a designated time a book of her choice and do a lot of oral discussions to help her narrate to you. As for math, can you get an online math program to do on her own to ensure that she is on track? Prodigy and DreamBox are good programs.

 

For the classroom setting: her mild hearing loss will qualify her to move to a quieter classroom. Get the principal involved and put in a request - also get a 504 plan for her in place.

 

To deal with her frustration: I have a child who used to be furious because of unjust treatment in the classroom in situations similar to the ones you posted. What helped him with handling the frustration was to explain to him why we could not change schools immediately and that the situation was temporary and that I would help to get him into a better environment for the next academic year. I also followed through by taking him with me to attend open house days in prospective new schools. Knowing that things will change improved his tolerance for the rule-breakers in his class. Also telling him that some kids are mature earlier than others and that the other kids need more time to get to that point made him less frustrated.

 

As for meltdowns: ask the Principal or counselor if she can skip homework for a while in lieu of free reading.



#44 SKL

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Posted 01 December 2017 - 03:25 PM

I think I would take her out now and keep her home while you work on a solution with the school.  I would not put her back in until after break.  At that point she has had a chance to recover and the school realizes you are really serious about expecting her needs to be met.  And then if your daughter starts having the same problems again, that would be the end.

 

Meanwhile do some research about any alternatives, since your daughter wants the social aspects of school and it sounds like homeschooling may not be a viable option for you.  Have you considered Montessori?  What other non-traditional options do you have in your area?



#45 bethben

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Posted 01 December 2017 - 04:37 PM

I think I would take her out now and keep her home while you work on a solution with the school. I would not put her back in until after break. At that point she has had a chance to recover and the school realizes you are really serious about expecting her needs to be met. And then if your daughter starts having the same problems again, that would be the end.

Meanwhile do some research about any alternatives, since your daughter wants the social aspects of school and it sounds like homeschooling may not be a viable option for you. Have you considered Montessori? What other non-traditional options do you have in your area?


I have some nice alternatives in two different two day co-ops/part time classical schools, but they’re not available until the next school year at this point. This is why I feel like I have a little better handle on how I can homeschool her next year.


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