ASD and travel

[Innisfree]

Anyone ever travel with a deeply unwilling 13yo?

 

I mean, we're loony to even consider this, right?

 

I could sure use some sympathy and advice from those who "get it." Right now I'm so frustrated, and I really don't know the best course.

 

Dh has earned three weeks of special vacation time that must be used during summer 2018 or summer 2019, or it will be lost. It's a big deal. He really, really wants to go to the UK. Older dd and I would love that also.

 

Dd13 cannot bear to be parted from her dog. Her dog is the center of her world. When asked about where she'd like to go on vacation, she says "somewhere I can walk Dog." When asked what she wants for her birthday, she gives me a long list of precisely-named dog toys.

 

Dog acts as an emotional support dog, but I can't figure out a way to safely and appropriately get him to and from Britain with us. There is no one with whom I can leave dd and Dog. Dh does not want to go on a dog-walking vacation in the US. Dog is not a service dog, nor do I think he can adequately be trained as one.

 

If we make reservations, and then can't get dd on the plane, we lose a bundle.

 

I have researched animal activities in Britain, and dd is mildly interested, but says she wants her own dog.

 

I can't even say , "Well, we'll do it when she's in college." Because there's no reason at the moment to anticipate her going to college. I don't know when, or if, she'll be independent.

 

We've talked about waiting a year and trying a shorter trip first, but dh is afraid she'll miss her dog and be even more adamant about not going in future. His attitude is that this may be the only chance we get, so we should go for it. But I keep picturing her refusing to let go of Dog and the ensuing chaos. How does one get an unwilling, adult-sized 13yo on a plane?

 

Dd13 varies between being reluctant but compliant about the trip, to being (very) mildly interested, to being depressed, curled up in bed hugging Dog.

[maize]

Does your dd have a therapist? I wonder if an outside professional could help here.

 

I might try practicing some shorter separations from Dog. Find a reliable pet sitter and start by taking Dog there for a few hours. Then for a whole day. Then overnight.

 

Would she maybe like to send postcards back to Dog or pick up dog toys or treats along the way?

 

Have you tried any kind of anxiety medication?

 

I'm wondering if you could find a B&B kind of place to stay out in the country that would have animals.

 

Just brainstorming here...

[Innisfree]

Thanks, Maize.

 

At the moment she doesn't have a therapist. We could try to start that up again.

 

Yes, we've talked about short trial runs. She's already on anxiety meds, and we could ask about increasing them if needed. We've been talking about finding new dog toys over there, too. At first she sounded fairly receptive, then less so as the whole idea sank in more.

 

Maybe therapy and trial runs are the way to go. But we have to make reservations soon if we decide to try this. We need to do a self-catering flat with space for the girls to be apart, and they fill up pretty fast. I'm supposed to be chopping onions and celery for stuffing, and I'm worrying over this instead, lol.

 

Anyway, thanks for the ideas. They're good ones.

[Innisfree]

Well I think you have a few options here.

 

I think the first is.....instead of trying to convince an unwilling adult sized 13yr old to get on a plane without her dog.....try to convince an unwilling actual adult that going oversees is not a good idea right now. I mean, I get why he wants to go, but as the adult, I would expect him to put his kid's needs ahead of his wants. Take the vacation time and go to Key West, or do a road trip across the country or something. Some sort of vacation where taking Dog isn't that big a deal.

 

The second might be to start working with her doc/therapist to see if you can work her up to being comfortable being separated.

 

And going along with that, you could talk about some anxiety meds to be taken just during the trip. I am a nervous flyer and have taken meds to help me fly. I don't know if meds would be an option for a period of like a week or two, but that might be an option to explore with her doc/therapist.

 

Another option....leave her home. Is there a grandparent or other trusted relative that could keep her for the time you are gone?

 

Going along with that.....what about just you and your DH going and leaving all the kids at home?

Oh, you are so right about the adult thing. Let's just say heredity plays a role here, and leave it at that. ;-) He will yield if it becomes clear he must, he'll just be very regretful.

 

No, there's no one we can leave either girl with.

[Lecka]

That is really tough. On our last vacation my son shut down on day 3. He was fine, but he wouldn't go anywhere. We stayed in a KOA campground with my family, my sister's family, and my parents, in two cabins. After the 3rd day we took turns staying in the cabin with him watching videos.

 

He had an awesome, awesome day at the Omaha Zoo, and swimming and going on a little zipline and "cloud jumper" trampoline thing the first 3 days. After the 3rd day he wouldn't swim, or go on the zip line, or go on the cloud jumper, and they were at the campground.

 

But he did have a nice time. He did also have fun with helping make the fire every night and roasting hotdogs and marshmallows, and he spent time with relatives.

 

Anyway -- my thoughts are, look for someone you could pay to watch her. Start looking now and maybe try leaving her for an overnight trip.

 

Good luck!!!!!!!!!

 

My experience is, no matter what, we have to be prepared for someone to stay back with my son. My step-dad is a wonderful person and has some health problems, so he often hangs out with my son. My sister takes a turn.

 

It's something my family does for us, as well as planning vacations that will adapt to my son.

 

But I wonder if you would need help like that, or be able to leave her with videos or something, even after you were there?

 

And then if she is stressed, the final stressor will be the return trip. That is always my worry after ummmmm a hard return trip. I plan a rest day to prepare for return travel.

 

My thought on a babysitter type person is -- okay, this may need to be something you do even in the longer term future. You may need to establish that sometimes you pay someone to sleep over at night, it might be a good time to start looking and getting used to the idea.

 

Edit: I hope it can work out for all of you to go, though!

Edited November 23, 2017 by Lecka

[City Mouse]

Could your DH take the trip on his own?

[Innisfree]

Could your DH take the trip on his own?

 

Oh, yes, he could. But the rest of us would like to go too, if we can figure this out.

 

It's a trip we've talked about for years. Before we got the dogs, we talked about boarding costs. We just never expected dd and Dog to be inseparable.

 

I should add that I don't think dd would spend the whole time there miserable. I think she'd enjoy a fair amount of it, and we're used to planning activities she likes, plenty of down time and separate space to recharge. It's really the initial stages of leaving the dog and boarding the plane the concern me.

[Lecka]

Can you try a little trip where you board the dog? Maybe you can get an idea of some things that help before it is such a big trip.

 

I think if you can do it soon maybe it won't grow in her mind as something so big, maybe she can see its going to be okay.

 

I think that moment of picking the dog up and seeing that things are back to normal can go a long way.

[PeterPan]

Jumping to the end here. I've been traveling quite a bit with my ds. If you think the worst part is getting her on the plane, then you need to leave her. Hire someone, find a grandma, and LEAVE her. Don't even contemplate taking her. Because anyone who is that rigid about a dog and can't talk themselves into ANY reason why they'd be motivated to go somewhere (like hello, we're going to hit every pizza shop in the UK or hello the drinking age is low and you can get smashed every night, I don't know, making it up), well they're going to be so rigid and hard to travel with that it's not worth it.

 

My ds is a pain in the butt. On a good day he's a pain in the butt. You need a vacation and a 13/14 yo can be ethically left with someone you trust for a week or two or three. Go in peace, enjoy your vacation, vacation your hearts out. Maybe that person who watches her the three weeks will have something worthwhile they can do in that time, like camp or learn a skill or do a project or something. Send her to a farm. Send her to camp. But go without her.

 

That's my stern advice. Unless you have such a bond that you talk it through and she finds her OWN MOTIVATION to go, I would just leave her. Dispassionately.

[Innisfree]

Okay, so I'm thinking about the possibility of leaving her. She actually says she'd probably prefer that depending on who we could get to stay with her.

 

Next question, how do you find a person to do this? She has a history of aggression during meltdowns. It's been a while since she did anything more than tear up paper and bang on walls, but still. She is adult-size. She could easily go three weeks with no problems of that sort, and she has never had behavior issues in classes, etc., but... You just never know. And we'd be completely unavailable, except (maybe) by phone.

 

I can really see that this is something we may need to figure out, for the future even if not for now. Just not sure how to do it. I'm thinking of liability issues, among other things. Somebody with training? A special-ed background?

[Lecka]

Could you ask a therapist for ideas?

 

Are there any summer programs ---- maybe even not that your daughter would attend ---- but that employ people who might be a good choice?

 

I think also -- well, it's been a long time since she's had a more serious problem it sounds like.

 

Maybe start small and see how things go, as far as trying to leave her with other people.... I would expect to need to build up a relationship over time, and then once there is a relationship with a couple of potential people your confidence may go up.

 

It sounds like she might do better now than she did a couple of years ago.

 

Maybe ask around at any activities.

 

I think you might not need anybody super special for her. She sounds like she is mostly doing very well. I think someone young but who would listen to your advice could be fine.

 

Babysitters could be fine too. I think your daughter's situation might be an easy job to a lot of people.

 

I guess -- I don't know, but start asking around and I think make up some little times and see how things go.

 

Also maybe really track stuff -- if it's been more than 12 months since your daughter has been aggressive toward a person -- I think that's a pretty good sign. I mean -- especially if you aren't also extremely tiptoeing around. But aggressive toward paper or walls ---- okay, it's not ideal, but that is 1,000x not the same situation as aggressive toward a person.

 

Hopefully from asking around you can get some ideas about how to find people. Maybe there is a job board or something. I wouldn't make her sound too difficult, though, I think it may be enough to say she has autism and you are looking to expand her social horizons or something like that. Like -- it exists that you can have her go on outings with people and they just engage in a conversation with her. And then -- one of those people, or a combination, you hope are dependable and available.

 

And then maybe you can also look for someone who doesn't want this job but could be available in an emergency. Maybe one of your therapists.

 

It sounds really hard to me, too, but you have some time, and its the kind of thing that may be good even if she ends up going on this vacation.

[exercise_guru]

I am not sure if this would work but i have a novel idea.

 

Have you ever seen the projects with flat stanley? Do a search and you will see that kids in grade school send there little paper guys to relatives in different states and the relatives take pictures with famous landmarks and send them back. The teacher has a bulletin board with a map or something and posts the pictures.

 

Perhaps you could find a very small " beany baby" size dog ( easy to fit in a small purse so very small ) that looks like your daughters dog. From now until the trip set up a bulletin board and take the doll dog to different places and take a picture with your daughter and this doll dog. Start posting pictures with your daughter and the doll dog. She eventually will warm to that idea and get more excited about it. Then take the beany dog.to Britain and let your daughter get pictures of the trip.with the beany dog. The little doll dog could have a picture with big Ben in the background etc. A fun travel memory.

 

I got this idea because my son found a stuffed animal that looked just like his cat. He took it with him to camp and took some really funny pictures with the doll cat at camp. He had been homesick last year and truly missed his cat. This year he had a great time tand had fun taking pictures.

 

My nephews have a duck they named " The Ductor" they send us funny pictures of the duck when they are off doing things.

 

Don't expect your daughter to warm to this idea quickly if she is anything like my 13 year old. Just start doing it and it will become a fun family activity. Your daughter will warm to it. My daughter has anxiety and so we have the dog sleep in her room. It took two months to have her warm to it. Now she finally comes and finds the dog at bedtime.

 

I am very sympathetic of your situation. My kids do ok most of the time but on our last vacation I had my husband choose something to take one of my daughters to while my other kiddos and I tried a new activity. I planned ahead because I new this situation would not have been a good fit for her to handle.

 

I know people take dogs on vacation but I can't imagine dealing with that. I have an ok dog but planning hotels and restaurants and transportation and managing kids. I can't imagine adding the dog. It would definitely have to be an RV vacation foe me to do that

 

 

Your idea to rent a flat is a very good one. It helps keep a routine and a nice place to land at the end of the day and cook familiar food.

 

I did have another suggestion for the future have you thought of a cruise. My mother is getting older and wears out before my family so we went on a kid friendly cruise. Whoever got tired could go back to their room and relax. My kids played handheld video games while we went out to dinner. They are older and it was a nice way to have a vacation. Everyone could eat, there were abundant activities and site seeing. Plus more of a routine and only unpacking once.

 

 

 

 

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[Innisfree]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate all the feedback and ideas. We're going to spend some time thinking things over and try to plan an overnight trip or two soon. After we see how that goes, we may have a better idea about longer stays.

 

Exercise guru, I think I'll try to find a little stuffed animal to take along. Thanks for the idea!

[PeterPan]

Do you have a friend or relative who can come to your house? The less that changes for her, the easier it will be. If you're able to have that setup then practice it.

[Pen]

What are the rules with regard to dogs traveling to UK?  Such as quarantines and so on? When I spent time in UK it seemed more dog friendly than USA. But I think I recall that there were significant quarantines. 

 

If there are not long quarantines, then maybe taking the dog would work if an itinerary that goes from dog friendly place to dog friendly place is possible, and if for some sight seeing you split up with dd, dog, and one parent maybe going to a park while other parent and other dd go into a museum, and then reverse that.  Or if you could get the dog there, maybe a small house could be rented where dog could be, even when people go out to do things, rather than trying for hotels or BandB's, 

 

In regard to someone staying with her, I'd look for a professional service for this. Maybe a "nanny service" that could provide someone who could care for dd and dog for a few weeks so that the rest of family could travel?  It might even be worth flying someone from somewhere to be with your dd and dog (instead of flying her to UK), if your area does not have anyone.  Possibly even something like a temp agency could find someone (or maybe more than one person) and where there would be insurance and other things provided.  Of a home help service perhaps...  someplace sending people to help with needs of at home adult patients with various problems may find your dd easy by comparison.

 

Or maybe have some plan where dh and older dd go to UK for the whole 3 week vacation, and you join them for a shorter time that dd13 can be without her dog, or a shorter time that you could get someone to babysit dd13?

 

Or maybe dd13 could be at an ASD friendly camp program while others of you go to UK?  Though I guess finding one that would also take a dog, could be hard to impossible, but you won't know if you don't look.

 

 

[Innisfree]

What are the rules with regard to dogs traveling to UK? Such as quarantines and so on? When I spent time in UK it seemed more dog friendly than USA. But I think I recall that there were significant quarantines.

 

If there are not long quarantines, then maybe taking the dog would work if an itinerary that goes from dog friendly place to dog friendly place is possible, and if for some sight seeing you split up with dd, dog, and one parent maybe going to a park while other parent and other dd go into a museum, and then reverse that. Or if you could get the dog there, maybe a small house could be rented where dog could be, even when people go out to do things, rather than trying for hotels or BandB's,

 

In regard to someone staying with her, I'd look for a professional service for this. Maybe a "nanny service" that could provide someone who could care for dd and dog for a few weeks so that the rest of family could travel? It might even be worth flying someone from somewhere to be with your dd and dog (instead of flying her to UK), if your area does not have anyone. Possibly even something like a temp agency could find someone (or maybe more than one person) and where there would be insurance and other things provided. Of a home help service perhaps... someplace sending people to help with needs of at home adult patients with various problems may find your dd easy by comparison.

 

Or maybe have some plan where dh and older dd go to UK for the whole 3 week vacation, and you join them for a shorter time that dd13 can be without her dog, or a shorter time that you could get someone to babysit dd13?

 

Or maybe dd13 could be at an ASD friendly camp program while others of you go to UK? Though I guess finding one that would also take a dog, could be hard to impossible, but you won't know if you don't look.

 

Taking the dog was our first plan. The paperwork is cumbersome but not impossible, and we found some dog-friendly flats; the real trouble is that we need to travel in the summer, and the temperatures at the airport and in the cargo compartment may be dangerously hot. Quite apart from dd's attachment to him, we all love Dog and no one wants to put him in a situation that might not be safe.

 

At the moment dd is saying that she does want to go, she just doesn't want to leave Dog. I'm hoping a few short trips where she enjoys herself and comes home to find Dog safe may ease her anxiety.

 

I really appreciate everyone's suggestions!

[Pen]

Lateral thought ideas:

 

Contact  kennel clubs on both ends and see if anyone knows of airlines that have areas for dogs  that are relatively safe in terms of temperature and other factors. Some may have.   And people who often travel with dogs, probably exist and can be found to make suggestions.  There are very expensive show and working dogs who have to get transported sometimes and cannot be being cooked or frozen.  There could also be things done in crate itself that could make it safer.  Crate fans, cooling mats....?

 

Cargo compartment may actually be colder due to altitude.  And my own recollections of UK is that it is mostly coolish, even in summer.  Airport on your end may be very hot, but could be that dog can stay with you in a/c areas till near boarding time.

 

I had relatives who travelled a lot for work in State Dept and apparently did okay with their dogs flying when they got a new post.  I think they gave their dogs sedatives prescribed by a vet to help the dogs cope with the flight conditions.

[exercise_guru]

Sometimes it's not about the dog. If there wasn't a dog there may be another reason for your daughter to not leave home.

 

I personally have a very hard time traveling with our family dog. I would not fly him to Britain.

 

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[Pen]

How big is Dog?  I heard that some airlines may allow small ones to go in cabin even if they are not service dogs.

[Pen]

Is Dog a heavy thick hot furred sort of breed? And what sort of snout does it have?  Short type that tends to have breathing trouble?

[Guest]

On 11/25/2017 at 4:26 PM, Innisfree said:

 

[City Mouse]

Has she ever been on an airplane before? If not, maybe that is part of the issue.

I have heard of certain airports or airlines having a special day or event where people with special needs can come and go through the process of getting on a plane without actually going anywhere. Something like that might ease her anxiety a bit.

[Lecka]

As for that, if you are on an email list for parents, that is how I hear about the "come see the plane" program that happens in a city 2 hours away (we have moved, this is for where we used to live). The list I am on is maintained by someone in the school district but you don't have to be affiliated with the school district (many parents on it live outside the boundary or home school). But I personally wouldn't know about this email list if my son weren't in public school, and it is often how information on programs like this is disseminated.

 

So maybe ask around if there is a list like this in your area to be on, or if there is a Facebook group, or whatever, if you aren't already.

[PeterPan]

We use Bose noise canceling headphones on planes. You'll hate the cost but they're worth it. And take headphones even if she doesn't normally need them. Gives her a way to take a break from too much stimulation.

 

The Bose come in a small cas that would fit in a backpack easily.

Edited November 30, 2017 by PeterPan