Inner workings of government assistance?

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Does anyone work as a case manager for a county assistance office?

 

What about finding a more straightforward calculator?

 

I think our case was seriously messed up, but if I don’t find the right deductions or calculators, I have to trust them. That hasn’t been a positive experience given what we just went though with my son.

[cjzimmer1]

Maybe other states are better but from what I've dealt with in my state, it is the most messed up system ever.  I would get 3 different answers to the same question depending on who I talked to or their most commonly used answer "We don't know until we put the information in the system and it will tell us".  Right now I'm dealing with I'm suppose to make a monthly payment towards our insurance, but the system doesn't send me any notices, no payment slips, no due dates, no where to send money to or even how much but then boots me off every month for nonpayment.  So I have to call and they give me the information for that month (cause it's not the same each month either) and then I have to mail it in and they have to reactivate my case, and repeat each month. 

 

So far the best that I've managed for understanding how some of the calculations are made was to look for the training manual for the program I was interested in and my state and then read through (many times over till I "got" it) to see what they were teaching the employees.  It also gave me a better understanding of what exceptions they would consider.  That when when I talked to someone, I could ask about X.  Otherwise that exception probably would have never counted because they didn't ask about it and I didn't know it would be considered until I read the training manual and specifically asked about that item and was about to count it.

 

Sorry you are having to deal with such a maddening system.  I can't tell you how many times I wanted to just say forget it but I really can't afford that option.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Their manual is genius!

 

My evening plan is to track it down. :)

[amo_mea_filiis.]

I think I found it. This is going to be fun to read through. Lol

 

The deduction part is the hardest. We have some things that are not standard medical deductions, but are dr ordered, therefore some should be deducted.

 

I may ask to sit down with a supervisor about this. All that’s happened is types of assistance have shifted hands, which isn’t the way it works. If the shifting left is ahead at least a little, I wouldn’t care. But now when I sit down with someone, changes won’t happen for like 2 months, so we’re screwed again. I may ask for a more formal review to stop the change, then we wouldn’t have to wait that time if the decision is in our favor.

[frugalmamatx]

Yep I agree - read the manual. I read the entire Texas DHS handbook over several days while caring for DD who was sick. Best thing I EVER did. For instance did you know homeschooling parents are exempt from work requirements in Texas for assistance? I definitely didn't. And neither did several other mom's who'd been kicked off the program locally. Caseworkers aren't used to dealing with it, so they ignore it. 

 

 

I'll warn you though - caseworkers HATE it when you start telling them "Well section xyz says this, so that needs to be put in the system". 

[Tap]

I agree about using the manual. I used to do that for dd11 too.  It helped to have the law codes to refer to when workers tried to tell me something wasn't eligible.

 

When I used to submit my paperwork, I would submit copies of the applicable policies with the section outlined in sharpie.  Obviously, only the complicated ones, not every one LOL.

 

 

I once had a caseworker tell me that my doctors note wasn't sufficient to prove I had an injury.  Policy said a doctor's note was required and I had another Very Helpful caseworker tell me the exact, very strict requirements for the note. Every six months for several years, I had to submit an updated doctor's note to the state. The doctor would use the same note and change the date and put a fresh signature on it.  Among other things, the note said my injury was "permanent and no current treatment exists to fix it", so there wasn't anything that needed to change on the note.   One time, a caseworker at a 6mth review, told me that the note was a fake (since it was the same note each time) and I was lying about my injury, so I needed to prove I was actually disabled. I told him to call the doctor's office himself to verify the letter, but he said he wouldn't do that.  That I needed to provide the proof.  I asked how I was supposed to do that, if he thought I was writing fake notes, he said that was my problem to solve, not his. I explained that the doctor used the same note, because it followed the format the state asked for but he could compare the signatures and see that each had a fresh date and signature.  He said the doctor needed to rewrite the note so it wasn't the same each time.  The conversation went down hill from there........I finally asked for his supervisor, who took one look at the note, looked at our file and approved it on the spot.  Apologizing for the other worker.

 

Every six months it was a crapshoot, on whether or not I got someone who knew what they were doing or not.  There were several times that they asked me for documents they had no legal right to, but unless I sent them in, they wouldn't approve the case.   The hoops required for state assistance are so ridiculous sometimes.   DD11 is a ward of the state, she automatically qualifies for state medical.....but we had to go through the whole application process every 6 months anyways.  We didn't qualify, and never would qualify based on our income, but we still had to submit 20+ pages of income/asset/retirement information so they could check the box to say she could keep her medical.  It is a joke and a waste of our time and the caseworkers time.

 

 

Edited November 23, 2017 by Tap

[amo_mea_filiis.]

If an activity is being used as a medical deduction, do I have to have receipts to cover the entire 6 month period? Or should I be able to submit dr’s note plus cost of thing?

 

For ds, drums and swimming (and eventually martial arts) are all medically ordered. Seriously. Lol. Neuromuscular doc has it in records that she wants him doing these things, and even listed why they’re more beneficial than continuous PT. But I pay cash for everything. Ive never gotten receipts for drums. I’ve also not yet forced it as a medical deduction because there have been weeks we’ve skipped due to money.

 

We have 3 sources of assistance, but they’re not all computer linked. So I have to report to A, which changes, so then B and C will change, again causing changes to A. I wish I could have a meeting with all 3 sources, hash out 2018 and be done for the year. In January of 2019 dd turns 18, but will not yet have graduated from school. So I don’t know what will happen. But NOTHING will be changing in 2018.

 

Until this month, the changes were all so small that sources A and B didn’t care about C and only C would move around a little.

 

Back in January and February of 2017 I had an extra kid officially here. Our food only increased 1 month instead of the 2 he was here. I’m debating on asking to review that period just because the new worker has generally been sour. Though the new worker did push me to have ds case reviewed revealing serious underpayment (but that money can’t go towards daily living expenses).

 

I agree it’s a massive waste of the workers’ time. Our stuff should be very simple, yet they act like it’s such a pain to fix things.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Using the standard $160 household deduction, I see where the number comes from. But what about utilities? I still do t know how much my rent will be and that change takes place in January. I found something quoting 30% of adjusted, or 10% gross, or $350.10 max. But I can’t find my county, so those numbers may be meaningless. There’s a $480 annual deduction per dependent, but also a $400 disabled deduction. Does that mean my deduction is $960 for dependents and $800 because the dependents are disabled? Or “just†$960? Or $960 for dependents and $400 for a disability in the household?

[amo_mea_filiis.]

And the biggest pain is that increases in income (meaning my jackass ex may have caught up one month in child support) becomes relevant 2 months later when of course my income is down more than usual.

 

I wish I could report child support for a 6 month period and then it wouldn’t be as dramatic of a change. But of course if I do that, I’m penalized for failing to report, even though at the end of the year it’s ether even or low.

[Ottakee]

I just know it is a messed up system. My son was approved for one amount (very very small) for a food card according to the worker. Then the letter came and it was 4 times that amount. That was good.

 

Now yesterday I got a notice that the amount went up over 3 times that higher amount. I have no idea why or how or if it is just a weird one month fluke or what.

 

I did learn that if you pay utilities (esp heat) apart from rent/shelter amount you often qualify for a lot more than if they are combined.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Since LIHEAP doesn’t count as an income, I technically pay heat. I have combined electric and gas heat though, so I absolutely pay heat. I pay utilities except sewer and water.

 

So I need to find out why there’s not a deduction beyond the standard $160. That’s supposed to just be a flat deduction regardless of anything else.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Massive bull. No one knows what the hell they’re talking about. The specific things I’m trying to deduct are not listed as yes or no in the rules. So it comes to *someone* making the decision.

 

I think I have no choice but to appeal the latest decision, then attempt to argue the deductions then.

 

My caseworker and his supervisor are jerks. I swear they think I have extra income I’m not reporting. They just comment that “food is expensive.†Gee, thanks. Not helpful.

 

I called the state and was told very quickly that yes the kids’ activities can be medical deductions. Then she read the notes from the supervisor. “Oh, I thought for sure, but you’ll have to talk to your caseworker.â€

 

$15 a week in food stamps is almost not worth the looks gotten from pulling out the stupid card, especially when I’ll be paying over $500 cash.

[Crimson Wife]

Maybe other states are better but from what I've dealt with in my state, it is the most messed up system ever.  I would get 3 different answers to the same question depending on who I talked to or their most commonly used answer "We don't know until we put the information in the system and it will tell us". 

 

Yes, this. :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

We just had to go through an appeal with Medicaid because the Regional Center didn't send some information to Medicaid verifying that my SN child still had her permanent disabilities. I had sent a copy of the Social Security Administration letter deeming her officially "disabled" but that wasn't good enough. Finally the Regional Center sent a letter but it wasn't the exact thing that Medicaid wanted, hence the appeal. Fortunately somebody in the appeals office used common sense and straightened it out without requiring me to go to an in-person hearing.

 

What a waste of taxypayer money! :glare:

 

[Ottakee]

 

$15 a week in food stamps is almost not worth the looks gotten from pulling out the stupid card, especially when I’ll be paying over $500 cash.

It IS a pain to go through and the small amount might not seem worth it but then if you report your income and expenses monthly (since your case is "open") the amounts might go way up, even just for some months.  Seriously, my son's went from $15/month (worker asked me if it was worth it and I said YES) to $57 the next month to now over $100/month......just from me faithfully reporting his true income/disability amount each month.  If I had said no to the $15/month then I would have had to open up a new application for him and you know how difficult that is.

 

Also, if you have a food card, it does open up other programs for you.....food commodities (at least in our area it is a monthly or ever 3 month box of staples), free school meals if in school, qualifying for scholarship opportunities for camps, recreation programs, YMCA, etc.  Many times you automatically qualify for some of these if you have an active food card.

 

Also, not sure if there are any museums in your area participating but there is a program museums for all that gives you highly discounted or free admission to museums for 4-6 family members if you have an active food card.   http://childrensmuseums.org/participating-museums

 

https://lowincomerelief.com/ebt/ here is another list of some benefits that you might qualify for.  

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Our area has nothing, and gas is expensive, so we can’t do a whole lot. And mine are cyber schooled, so no access to the lunches they qualify for. I faithfully report and have been decreased each and every time.

 

I was hoping with dd’s disability money, I could dump most of it (knowing rent would go up and food down) into her mental and physical health. I’m really hoping we can keep Crossfit. It’s been as good for her as I’d hoped!

 

And then with ds’s disability going up because social security royally screwed up x 5 years, he was going to add martial arts. I can still do this, but I don’t want to run down that money. SS did a good job saving a massive chunk of money for him, but since it’s not counted as a resource, I want to have some of that for him. This money can’t be used for daily/regular expenses.

 

And I was thrilled that I’d finally be able to afford food outside of food stamps! Veggies galore! But it doesn’t look like it’ll be that easy.

 

It would have been a single year of living decent.

 

I still haven’t plugged in our new numbers to see where I’m at. I’ll be doing that in the morning. There’s a grace period, but then it all comes tumbling down in January.

 

It doesn’t bug me when people have assistance and a little on the side because I know it’s extremely hard to live on it. But I think what’s getting to me most is *knowing* for sure how many people around here have max benefits and are able to pull a decent full time job. The absolute worst is the married successful store owner with 1 disabled child. Max SSI, $300+ in food, and medicaid for all 3 because even though they both own and run the store, they don’t draw a paycheck, therefore have no income. They owe me $70 for babysitting and will not pay up. They just bought a house for shits and giggles. Of course the store owns it.

 

In January I had a safety plan kiddo here. He was able to be added to our food stamps. Except he wasn’t. I reported the change 2 weeks before January/February food stamps, but didn’t get an increase until the March/April cycle and only for 1 month. So I didnt get the increase while he was here. That was some creative meal times, but thankfully he was little and didn’t eat much. Our area is small enough that if I go to the assistance office, I’ll wait a maximum of 10 minutes to sit with my caseworker or his supervisor, and that extra 8 minutes of waiting was because they were in a meeting! So there’s no way he was too busy to change the household in a timely manner. My previous worker would have done it right then.

[kiwik]

I just know it is a messed up system. My son was approved for one amount (very very small) for a food card according to the worker. Then the letter came and it was 4 times that amount. That was good.

 

Now yesterday I got a notice that the amount went up over 3 times that higher amount. I have no idea why or how or if it is just a weird one month fluke or what.

 

I did learn that if you pay utilities (esp heat) apart from rent/shelter amount you often qualify for a lot more than if they are combined.

And next month they will send you another letter accusing you of keeping money they gave you and demanding it back with interest.

[Ottakee]

And next month they will send you another letter accusing you of keeping money they gave you and demanding it back with interest.

Once almost 20 years ago now I had a government agency send me a check for over $25,000 ??????? They owed me a mere fraction of that amount but it honestly took me over a year to convince the powers that be that it was wrong and how and where to send it back properly.

 

The food card isn't anywhere near that amount but in Dec they are underpaying my son's disability because they somehow figured that he made $1000 in Oct...when once again the true amount I reported was a mere fraction.

 

Sometimes you wonder if some/most of the welfare "fraud" is actually the agency mistakes and not consumer dishonesty. If I was not on top of this my cognitively impaired son would have no idea if he was over or under paid.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Sometimes you wonder if some/most of the welfare "fraud" is actually the agency mistakes and not consumer dishonesty. If I was not on top of this my cognitively impaired son would have no idea if he was over or under paid.

Seriously!

[amo_mea_filiis.]

I found an error on their part! This starts the appeal to add my odd medical deductions with ease.

 

You take gross income minus deductions x .3 and subtract that from the max benefit for family size and that’s the SNAP payment. Since ours is all unearned income, it’s not complicated.

 

I was told I have a $500 standard household deduction. Well, using simple math, that should be $162 or $163 food.

 

But they said I’m getting $61, which again using simple math can only be found using the $160 deduction.

 

Do they not know math?