Getting stuck/Shutting down

[Momto4inSoCal]

My DD has been diagnosed with SPD and ADHD and sometime we have issues with her getting stuck or just shutting down completely. It usually starts with me asking her to do something she doesn't want to do. She is generally a pretty easy kid but she gets in these moods and it is hard to work with her. She just start saying no or i don't want to and fold her arms and there is just no talking to her, no reasoning, nothing. If I ask her why or what she's protesting against he will just say no I don't want to. For example yesterday she had jiu jitsu and she refused to take her sweatshirt off to put on her gi. I finally said we are just going to leave and she started crying. She took the pants off (she had shorts underneath) and left them in the studio and then wouldn't get in the car. Finally after 25min I got her to get in the car and she immediately fell asleep. When we got home she went to her room and slept another 2 hours. We had gone to the mall earlier and I'm wondering if it was maybe sensory overload and going to Jiu Jitsu was too much for her. I don't know how to deal with her when she gets like this and after she sleeps she is fine. It's like she's just gone during the episode. I've found the only thing that snaps her out of it is giving her time to isolate and then eventually she comes back. I'm also thinking of having her re-evaluated. She is 11 so it's not like she's a little kids having a normal temper tantrum. I'm wondering if maybe this is Autism or maybe it's just the SPD. Has anyone else delt with this or have any advice on how to handle these episodes better? I also don't know if I should explain her diagnosis to the jiujitsu studio. Now that she's had an episode there maybe they need to know why it happened? I'm never sure if I should make the teachers of the classes she's in aware of her diagnoses or not. 

Edited November 21, 2017 by Momto4inSoCal

[Lecka]

This sounds like autism to me. I saw this author speak and I thought she was a great speaker, she did discuss shutting down. I'm linking her book. https://www.amazon.com/Asperger-Syndrome-Difficult-Moments-Practical/dp/1931282706/ref=la_B001JS20UA_1_3/146-8583792-9691126?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1511289513&sr=1-3

 

There is another link that gets shared here sometimes, I will look for it...

https://m.facebook.com/autismdiscussionpage/posts/496313900448115

 

I couldn't find what I was looking for, but Autism Discussion Page is pretty good!

 

As far as what people at ju jutsu think, they probably think she was having a hard time and hope she felt better when she got home.

[Momto4inSoCal]

This sounds like autism to me. I saw this author speak and I thought she was a great speaker, she did discuss shutting down. I'm linking her book. https://www.amazon.com/Asperger-Syndrome-Difficult-Moments-Practical/dp/1931282706/ref=la_B001JS20UA_1_3/146-8583792-9691126?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1511289513&sr=1-3

 

There is another link that gets shared here sometimes, I will look for it...

https://m.facebook.com/autismdiscussionpage/posts/496313900448115

 

I couldn't find what I was looking for, but Autism Discussion Page is pretty good!

 

As far as what people at ju jutsu think, they probably think she was having a hard time and hope she felt better when she got home.

Thank you for the recommendation I ordered the book. We go back to the studio tomorrow so I'll see how they react. Hopefully you're right. I really need to let go of worrying what others think during these moments, it's sometimes hard as a mom. My daughter is really amazing and I feel like sometimes people don't see that because of her differences.

Edited November 21, 2017 by Momto4inSoCal

[PeterPan]

Yeah, that's the kind of stuff my ds does too, and he is diagnosed. Yes, it would be good to update her evals. What's striking about it is how little awareness she had of her own state. So she wasn't self-advocating or problem solving or saying hey, I'm tired, could we skip tonight. That self-awareness issue, the interroception piece, is a big marker for autism. There's a good book on Interroception that might open up things for you. It's $$ but good. Mighteor is a great way to work on that, btw. 

 

Also, there's a Test of Problem Solving normed for her age. Might blow your mind. An SLP can run it, if you'd like to see something before a psych eval. Obviously find an SLP who specializes in autism, not just a random SLP. They can run a pragmatics too, like the Social Language Development Test. 

 

Socialthinking - Articles  This article has profiles where you might find your dd. You'll notice that the ESC profile is specifically mentioned as someone who seems functional overall, like yes they could live independently, but they have difficulties with problem solving. The ST site also has a list of people who've trained with them for evals. We've done that dynamic assessment by a trained person in addition to our other evals, and it was really informative. We saw things there nobody else had bothered to bring to light, and it definitely changed how I work with him. It's stuff you can make happen other ways, with other tests, but if there happens to be a person near you who can do it it would be something to consider. The Test of Narrative Language would give you one piece sort of replicating what they do. They do a lot more, but it's another good thing to look for.

 

There's a lot a psych DOESN'T do, so that's why I mention all this stuff. The psych will give you a diagnosis, but you'll still be like what do I DO, how do I make a difference. The Social Thinking stuff, self-advocating, awareness, mindfulness, problem solving, this is where it's at and the SLPs are on the forefront of it right now.

[exercise_guru]

Diane Craft explains this using batteries. For some kids a day or an activity might take a AAA battery but for another child with some challenges it might take a D size battery.   They simply don't have as much stamina to engage in a full day or a very long demanding school process. They are good for awhile but they run out of gas quickly. It is interesting because one of my  kiddos is very self aware but has  challenges and he can tell when he is out of gas. I try to pace things and give incentives. I am strict with the sleeping schedule and the food. If he gets sick then the school week is just bad, he is uncooperative and just not able to get through the day. It sometimes comes out as stubbornness but I have accepted that and I don't stack too many things on the same day or I pay for it because we go to therapy etc and its a mess. I also am more likely to keep him home and homeschool him if he is a bit sick rather than send him to school to have it be a bad day. He has keyed in on it and tells me " I am just feeling stubborn" At least he has given it a name. I am not sure its accurate but it helps so much to know that because its not everyday and sometimes it comes out of the blue because of illness, tiredness, or drained from a marathon writing session at school etc. Sometimes there is a sensory component because crowded places and lots of noise and cross talk make him work extra hard.  This was something that the Integrated listening system helped with immensely. He can now handle loud noises and jostling crowds without being fatigued the rest of the day. 

 

 I have another child that is a go getter all the way. She is quite capable but has some challenges. When she is overly drained its a full on uncooperative meltdown. Unfortunately when she was 11 she didn't get that she was run down and she would act out defiantly and be stressed. When I tightened up the sleep and the food she also responded positively.  Now at 13 she sometimes can give that feedback. She can tell me she is run down and ask me not to put to many demands on her. For her she just says " I am tired and stressed" but its a good clue for me to pay attention and try to divert the day from an overly busy one. The bad thing is she is not self aware and can get sick or have strep and not even know it. 

 

I guess what I would take from this is to have your 11 have a calendar and look at what is going on in their life. Do get a diagnosis but regardless the best thing for kids that shutdown is routine, good food, consistent sleep and not overloading their day. As a mom coach learn to call an audible and pull out of something if  your mom spidysence goes up that its not going well. Also I hesitate to recommend this because it only works for one of my kiddos and not very well but if you notice its an off day provide incentive. Like say " I sense you are bit run down if you can have a good day at karate and give it your best effort you can ________________________________ when you get home. " sometimes my son will rally if he knows he can do something but sometimes even when he tries to rally he just can't. Sometimes it works out. For my one daughter I just tell her she can skip chores and relax if she can get through........... and she will unless she is just beyond spent and then its irrational meltdown so then I take her to the doctor because I know its not the usual challenges. 

 

OK that was my first idea but I have one more. Sensory overload is tough to track back. Perhaps something happened in the day that just overdid her sensory system completely.  By the time she got to karate she was in such a state she couldn't rally.  You could create a little log of your daughter. Notices what is going on when days like this happen. Write down what is happening when she has a good day. try to make specific observations. This will help immensely for diagnoses but also maybe help you spot triggers or patterns to help her.  For my kiddos they were not two standard deviations off in any area so they have ver little diagnosis because of the mixed presentation with SPD.  I just noticed that part of the screening had more check marks in a specific sensory  area so I looked for ways to help with that. I have also wanted to try weighted vests. I have one I just haven't tried it but that is  for another one of my children.  That is  another thing about those dang screenings and tests. IF you fill things out take a copy of the test where you or the teacher checked things. Even if it isn't diagnosed most of the tests have 5 or 6 areas and it helps you to notice which area your child's symptoms are concentrated. That helps figure out remediation strategies and accommodations to help them. All of my kids have mixed presentation so I have found the details  to be more important than the diagnosis itself. 

 

 

Also maybe another parent can refer you to a resource to help your kids talk about what they are feeling to key into the sensory stuff. It has taken years for us but my kiddos can process what is going on. Not always in the moment but on reflection and that is helpful especially if they have an understanding mom.  Usually the understanding mom happens a few hours after the karate meltdown when I can ground myself and be understanding but yes there have been many days where I have cried because of Karate or whatever and on reflection I notice its was a bad week for that kiddo and there must have just been too much going on or they were coming down with a bug. 

 

Edited November 22, 2017 by exercise_guru

[Lawyer&Mom]

In my own experience, I can have a delayed reaction. If I have an intense meeting one day, I can be fine that evening and then wiped out the next day. Everything is worse if I'm sleep deprived or sick. Definitely look at the bigger picture, it may have nothing to do with karate that day.

[exercise_guru]

Yeah, that's the kind of stuff my ds does too, and he is diagnosed. Yes, it would be good to update her evals. What's striking about it is how little awareness she had of her own state. So she wasn't self-advocating or problem solving or saying hey, I'm tired, could we skip tonight. That self-awareness issue, the interroception piece, is a big marker for autism. There's a good book on Interroception that might open up things for you. It's $$ but good. Mighteor is a great way to work on that, btw. 

 I am so interested in Mighteor. did you use it with an older child ? Would the games be engaging enough to work for a 10 year old and a 13 year old. I am going to search for a thread on this. 

Edited November 22, 2017 by exercise_guru

[kbutton]

In my own experience, I can have a delayed reaction. If I have an intense meeting one day, I can be fine that evening and then wiped out the next day. Everything is worse if I'm sleep deprived or sick. Definitely look at the bigger picture, it may have nothing to do with karate that day.

 

I vote very big red flag for autism, and I agree that the above might be a good explanation.

 

I do not have autism, but I would also note that my own tiredness often doesn't occur when one would think it should. For instance, a late night equals tired, not the day after, but two days after. Paradoxically, a good night's sleep when I've been overly tired or stressed leaves me with something like a sleep hangover--I am sluggish and want to just keep sleeping. I think my issue might be thyroid, but I've had lifelong sleep issues (always needing very little or way too much). So, the only relation to autism is just that if she can't tell you, you might need to think more broadly about where her body gets tired on the same schedule yours does when you troubleshoot.

[PeterPan]

EG, I play the Mighteor games myself. I see no issue with suggesting them for those ages. No, they're not xbox or whatever, but they're extremely well-done. They're not preschool-ish or juvenile.