Charles Manson has died

[Lady Florida.]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/murderous-cult-leader-charles-manson-dies-83-n702811

 

He was the embodiment of evil.

 

I remember the murders. Mostly I remember my mother's shock and horror as the story was coming out.

[Cindy in FL.]

Maybe this will give even some small amount of comfort to the families, loved ones, and friends of those he murdered.

[gaillardia]

I remember it too, back when adults didn't keep the news quiet from small ears and when newspapers were left on the table.

Just think how many times he was up for parole and because of his behavior was always denied.

Why would anyone ever think it okay to release someone so insane and evil? 

[SKL]

I remember my mom had a book on the mantel, "Helter Skelter" which was about those murders.  It was probably borrowed from her book-loving friend, the same one who lent her Jack the Ripper and Sybil and various others.  Needless to say, I read them all.

 

The last time I typed "good riddance to bad rubbish [Ariel Castro]," I was chided for not having a more loving attitude toward humanity, so this time I will only think it.

[Audrey]

He was quite the icon of that era.  Not a good one, of course, but one nonetheless. 

 

[Chris in VA]

Yeah, good riddance. I usually have compassion for those who are clearly mentally ill and perform evil acts.

But not today. 

I'm not that good. 

[Guest]

I remember my mom had a book on the mantel, "Helter Skelter" which was about those murders. It was probably borrowed from her book-loving friend, the same one who lent her Jack the Ripper and Sybil and various others. Needless to say, I read them all.

 

The last time I typed "good riddance to bad rubbish [Ariel Castro]," I was chided for not having a more loving attitude toward humanity, so this time I will only think it.

 

My dad had “Helter Skelter,†too. I remember looking through the photo section when I was a kid. I got the gist of who Charles Manson was, but I didn’t actually read the book. It was one of the many books my dad had. It was common for me to look theough them just because I didn’t know what the title meant.

 

I also remember always looking at the cover of “Les Miserables†and reading it as “Less Miserable.†I was always curious about who was miserable in that book.

[Annie G]

I remember my mom had a book on the mantel, "Helter Skelter" which was about those murders.  It was probably borrowed from her book-loving friend, the same one who lent her Jack the Ripper and Sybil and various others.  Needless to say, I read them all.

 

The last time I typed "good riddance to bad rubbish [Ariel Castro]," I was chided for not having a more loving attitude toward humanity, so this time I will only think it.

 

I read the same three books! Now I look back and wonder why my mom let me read that stuff.  But it was fascinating. 

[klmama]

Dr. William Walsh (who does brain chemistry research that helps people with all kinds of mental and behavioral disorders) has researched how an individual's biochemistry can cause violent, antisocial behavior.  He indicates that Manson's biochemical make-up was off-the-charts bad.  Here are notes on Walsh's comments posted on https://www.alternativementalhealth.com/commentary-on-nutritional-treatment-of-mental-disorders-2/#PY :

 

In studying nearly 10,000 behavior-disordered children & adults since that time, I’ve learned the following:

1. A child born with ideal body/brain chemistry is nearly indestructible, and may thrive in a terrible environment.

2. A child with a MILD chemical predisposition to violence may turn out fine, if the environment is good and there are resources for counseling, etc. The same child might wind up in prison if born into poverty or an otherwise terrible environment.

3. A child born with a SEVERE chemical imbalance will exhibit terrible behavior, even in an ideal environment. You can’t just “love away†a severe brain chemical imbalance. My group once visited and tested Charles Manson at San Quentin prison….. his chemistry was so extraordinarily aberrant that I am convinced that if adopted into a different family, Manson would have turned out the same. (July 28, 2003)

 

 

However, Walsh offers hope:

 

In the beginning, we had no way of knowing if the biochemical differences were a causative factor or simply an association. I decided the quickest way to find out would be to correct the aberrant chemistry of the violent children to see if the behaviors changed. 10,000 behavior patients later, I can report that the bad behavior in young children usually disappears completely when the chemistry is balanced. Children under the age of 10 usually correct beautifully without counseling of any kind. However, older children (14+) benefit greatly from counseling, behavior mod, conflict resolution, etc after the chemistry is corrected. I’m not sure if this is because of an ingrained negative self-image, poor social skills, or problems in breaking the bad behavioral habits. All I know is that counseling/therapy seems necessary with teens, even after the chemistry has been normalized. We’ve also learned that adult criminals generally fail to achieve enduring benefits with our biochemical (non-drug) therapies. Most are back in jail within 5 years. We are on a mission to identify the at-risk children and intervene with effective therapy before their lives are ruined. The window of opportunity (for severe cases) begins to close in the early teen years. Drug and alcohol abuse may be major factors in this phenomenon.

 

Walsh's website may have more info, if you are interested:  https://www.walshinstitute.org/  

Edited November 21, 2017 by klmama

[gardenmom5]

it was reported Sharon Tate's sister Debra prayed for his soul.  she's a better person than I would have been in that circumstance.

 

[Scarlett]

Dr. William Walsh (who does brain chemistry research that helps people with all kinds of mental and behavioral disorders) has researched how an individual's biochemistry can cause violent, antisocial behavior. He indicates that Manson's biochemical make-up was off-the-charts bad. Here are notes on Walsh's comments posted on https://www.alternativementalhealth.com/commentary-on-nutritional-treatment-of-mental-disorders-2/#PY :

In studying nearly 10,000 behavior-disordered children & adults since that time, I’ve learned the following:

1. A child born with ideal body/brain chemistry is nearly indestructible, and may thrive in a terrible environment.

2. A child with a MILD chemical predisposition to violence may turn out fine, if the environment is good and there are resources for counseling, etc. The same child might wind up in prison if born into poverty or an otherwise terrible environment.

3. A child born with a SEVERE chemical imbalance will exhibit terrible behavior, even in an ideal environment. You can’t just “love away†a severe brain chemical imbalance. My group once visited and tested Charles Manson at San Quentin prison….. his chemistry was so extraordinarily aberrant that I am convinced that if adopted into a different family, Manson would have turned out the same. (July 28, 2003)

 

However, Walsh offers hope:

In the beginning, we had no way of knowing if the biochemical differences were a causative factor or simply an association. I decided the quickest way to find out would be to correct the aberrant chemistry of the violent children to see if the behaviors changed. 10,000 behavior patients later, I can report that the bad behavior in young children usually disappears completely when the chemistry is balanced. Children under the age of 10 usually correct beautifully without counseling of any kind. However, older children (14+) benefit greatly from counseling, behavior mod, conflict resolution, etc after the chemistry is corrected. I’m not sure if this is because of an ingrained negative self-image, poor social skills, or problems in breaking the bad behavioral habits. All I know is that counseling/therapy seems necessary with teens, even after the chemistry has been normalized. We’ve also learned that adult criminals generally fail to achieve enduring benefits with our biochemical (non-drug) therapies. Most are back in jail within 5 years. We are on a mission to identify the at-risk children and intervene with effective therapy before their lives are ruined. The window of opportunity (for severe cases) begins to close in the early teen years. Drug and alcohol abuse may be major factors in this phenomenon.

Walsh's website may have more info, if you are interested: https://www.walshinstitute.org/

Very interesting.

[gardenmom5]

Dr. William Walsh (who does brain chemistry research that helps people with all kinds of mental and behavioral disorders) has researched how an individual's biochemistry can cause violent, antisocial behavior.  He indicates that Manson's biochemical make-up was off-the-charts bad.  Here are notes on Walsh's comments posted on https://www.alternativementalhealth.com/commentary-on-nutritional-treatment-of-mental-disorders-2/#PY :

 

Are you looking for an excuse for his crimes?   as in, his brain chemistry was so far off the charts he couldn't help being a twisted monster?  (what likely set him off was looking for revenge on the home's owner, against whom he'd made threats - the record producer/doris days' son - who refused to sign manson to a record contract or otherwise help him in his career.  Polanski and Tate were renting the house.)

 

the thing is - he didn't get a go at manson's brain chemistry until well after the murders.  anything before that is supposition at best.

which came first? behavior can change chemistry, just as chemistry can affect behavior.

 

My dd's bff (since they were 12) is a clinical psychologist whose specialty is TBIs.  

 

It was reported Hermann Goering had brain injuries during wwi - are you going to support excusing  his crimes because of the brain injuries?   His brother said his behavior/personality changed after the war.  incidentally - his brother, Albert Goering  (who was acquitted at nuremberg by the testimony of jews whose lives he had saved.  Was also bailed out of german prisons during wwii by his brother) is being investigated by Yad Veshem under consideration for being awarded "righteous among the nations" for saving jews.

 

eta: re: Albert Goering.  Apparently, Yad Veshem decided, that although his actions did save the lives of jews, it wasn't to a great enough personal risk.  (he was arrested by the gestapo - his brother bailed him out.)

Edited November 21, 2017 by gardenmom5

[klmama]

No, I'm not making excuses.  Everyone is responsible for their own actions, including Manson.  People can't fathom how he could be such a monster, though, and I'm just pointing out that a correlation has been made by a well-respected researcher who has examined thousands of behaviorally disordered individuals for biochemical imbalances and followed them over time.  Walsh has seen improvement in those individuals receiving treatment at a young age.  That won't bring back Manson's victims, but it might prevent such atrocities from occurring in the future if children with such imbalances got the needed help early enough.

 

Walsh has also made a negative correlation between the biochemical makeup of school shooters and the specific medications they took for their mental illnesses.  Yes, the shooters are still responsible for their actions, but if the correlation were better known in the medical community, perhaps doctors would test their patients before prescribing and there would be fewer shootings in the future.  

 

 

[Selkie]

How sad that he lived to be 83 and his victims never had the chance to do so. 

[kitten18]

Dr. William Walsh (who does brain chemistry research that helps people with all kinds of mental and behavioral disorders) has researched how an individual's biochemistry can cause violent, antisocial behavior. He indicates that Manson's biochemical make-up was off-the-charts bad. Here are notes on Walsh's comments posted on https://www.alternativementalhealth.com/commentary-on-nutritional-treatment-of-mental-disorders-2/#PY :

In studying nearly 10,000 behavior-disordered children & adults since that time, I’ve learned the following:

1. A child born with ideal body/brain chemistry is nearly indestructible, and may thrive in a terrible environment.

2. A child with a MILD chemical predisposition to violence may turn out fine, if the environment is good and there are resources for counseling, etc. The same child might wind up in prison if born into poverty or an otherwise terrible environment.

3. A child born with a SEVERE chemical imbalance will exhibit terrible behavior, even in an ideal environment. You can’t just “love away†a severe brain chemical imbalance. My group once visited and tested Charles Manson at San Quentin prison….. his chemistry was so extraordinarily aberrant that I am convinced that if adopted into a different family, Manson would have turned out the same. (July 28, 2003)

 

However, Walsh offers hope:

In the beginning, we had no way of knowing if the biochemical differences were a causative factor or simply an association. I decided the quickest way to find out would be to correct the aberrant chemistry of the violent children to see if the behaviors changed. 10,000 behavior patients later, I can report that the bad behavior in young children usually disappears completely when the chemistry is balanced. Children under the age of 10 usually correct beautifully without counseling of any kind. However, older children (14+) benefit greatly from counseling, behavior mod, conflict resolution, etc after the chemistry is corrected. I’m not sure if this is because of an ingrained negative self-image, poor social skills, or problems in breaking the bad behavioral habits. All I know is that counseling/therapy seems necessary with teens, even after the chemistry has been normalized. We’ve also learned that adult criminals generally fail to achieve enduring benefits with our biochemical (non-drug) therapies. Most are back in jail within 5 years. We are on a mission to identify the at-risk children and intervene with effective therapy before their lives are ruined. The window of opportunity (for severe cases) begins to close in the early teen years. Drug and alcohol abuse may be major factors in this phenomenon.

Walsh's website may have more info, if you are interested: https://www.walshinstitute.org/

That was fascinating. I look forward to reading more.

[Renthead Mommy]

And morons all over twitter are "RIP Charles Manson!  Loved his music" and things like that.  

 

Idiots are confusing Maryiln Manson with Charles Manson.  Guess they missed the part where he was 83. Oh and a murderer.  (Insert major eyeroll here.)

 

[gardenmom5]

 t a correlation has been made by a well-respected researcher who has examined thousands of behaviorally disordered individuals for biochemical imbalances and followed them over time.  Walsh has seen improvement in those individuals receiving treatment at a young age.       it might prevent such atrocities from occurring in the future if children with such imbalances got the needed help early enough.

 

 

I have a son who was diagnosed ODD at a young age.  (as part of several related diagnosis.).

the first thing I had to do to get effective help for him - was FIRE my pediatrician.  I had been taking my kids there for nearly 25 years when I walked out never to entrust a child of mine to him again.

I started taking him to a ND who specializes in kids with similar disorders.  amazing progress.

 

what really needs to change is the attitude and lack of support for mental illness - in children and adults.  Drs know less than they think they do, and it isn't much to begin with.

 

And morons all over twitter are "RIP Charles Manson!  Loved his music" and things like that.  

 

Idiots are confusing Maryiln Manson with Charles Manson.  Guess they missed the part where he was 83. Oh and a murderer.  (Insert major eyeroll here.)

 

paul mccartney made an appearance with ?kayne west?. . . one of the latter's fans posted how "the guy's" career was made because he appeared with kayne west.

um, shall we tell him?

[Seasider]

Dr. William Walsh (who does brain chemistry research that helps people with all kinds of mental and behavioral disorders) has researched how an individual's biochemistry can cause violent, antisocial behavior. He indicates that Manson's biochemical make-up was off-the-charts bad. Here are notes on Walsh's comments posted on https://www.alternativementalhealth.com/commentary-on-nutritional-treatment-of-mental-disorders-2/#PY :

In studying nearly 10,000 behavior-disordered children & adults since that time, I’ve learned the following:

1. A child born with ideal body/brain chemistry is nearly indestructible, and may thrive in a terrible environment.

2. A child with a MILD chemical predisposition to violence may turn out fine, if the environment is good and there are resources for counseling, etc. The same child might wind up in prison if born into poverty or an otherwise terrible environment.

3. A child born with a SEVERE chemical imbalance will exhibit terrible behavior, even in an ideal environment. You can’t just “love away†a severe brain chemical imbalance. My group once visited and tested Charles Manson at San Quentin prison….. his chemistry was so extraordinarily aberrant that I am convinced that if adopted into a different family, Manson would have turned out the same. (July 28, 2003)

 

However, Walsh offers hope:

In the beginning, we had no way of knowing if the biochemical differences were a causative factor or simply an association. I decided the quickest way to find out would be to correct the aberrant chemistry of the violent children to see if the behaviors changed. 10,000 behavior patients later, I can report that the bad behavior in young children usually disappears completely when the chemistry is balanced. Children under the age of 10 usually correct beautifully without counseling of any kind. However, older children (14+) benefit greatly from counseling, behavior mod, conflict resolution, etc after the chemistry is corrected. I’m not sure if this is because of an ingrained negative self-image, poor social skills, or problems in breaking the bad behavioral habits. All I know is that counseling/therapy seems necessary with teens, even after the chemistry has been normalized. We’ve also learned that adult criminals generally fail to achieve enduring benefits with our biochemical (non-drug) therapies. Most are back in jail within 5 years. We are on a mission to identify the at-risk children and intervene with effective therapy before their lives are ruined. The window of opportunity (for severe cases) begins to close in the early teen years. Drug and alcohol abuse may be major factors in this phenomenon.

Walsh's website may have more info, if you are interested: https://www.walshinstitute.org/

How does one test brain chemistry? Is it as simple as a blood test?

 

I am contemplating how such test results might be used by criminal defense attorneys. I am not imagining good things...

[Lady Florida.]

And morons all over twitter are "RIP Charles Manson!  Loved his music" and things like that.  

 

Idiots are confusing Maryiln Manson with Charles Manson.  Guess they missed the part where he was 83. Oh and a murderer.  (Insert major eyeroll here.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

paul mccartney made an appearance with ?kayne west?. . . one of the latter's fans posted how "the guy's" career was made because he appeared with kayne west.

um, shall we tell him?

 

 

:001_rolleyes:

 

I try not to judge people but sometimes they make it really hard not to do so.