Polite ways to avoid the Sunday germ swap

[Guinevere]

You know what I mean.  "Stand and greet your neighbor."  And then everyone walks around hugging and shaking hands.  If you are really lucky, you are part of a "greet one another with a holy kiss" group, and then you get to be kissed, too.  Our current church actually does neither, but there is a very vibrant before and after service mingle and shake hands routine.  You can't get out of the building without shaking hands with at least 20 people.

 

My family is SO sick this week.  I've been in bed for 3 days, and ds is sleeping on the floor in his coat downstairs.  He said he wanted to go outside, but curled up in a blanket and fell asleep instead.  He's been sick since Monday.  Dd is some better today, but has also been really sick, in bed since Monday.  She's still in bed, but she's having conversations again, and I'm not having to force her to eat.  Besides just the awfulness of being sick, my kids have had to miss all their classes this week, and will miss all their classes next week.  We have 2 kids sick, and several more coming down with it.  Oh, and Dh is on the floor with ds.  Poor guy is going to have a really long week.  He works long days, and is always on call.  He's getting sick, but is trying to pretend he isn't.  

 

I can't do this all winter.

 

Help me figure out ways to politely not touch anybody at church!  (And for the kids not to, either!)

 

We aren't going tomorrow because we are still sick, and because between us, we cough about once a minute.  Next week, assuming we are better, we can just say, "We are just getting over a bad cold, and we'd hate to spread it."  But what about when we really are well?  

 

 

[maize]

How about "we've been sick too much this year, the doctor told us to avoid shaking hands and hugging people".

Tell your doctor you need that prescription if necessary! Personally I'd consider online advice from a medical organization sufficient to claim doctor's orders :)

[Peaceseeker]

Arrive just barely on time and leave five minutes early?

 

Wear gloves in the winter? Or wash your hands before and after service or use hand sanitizer? Flu shots?

 

Or try elderberry syrup or something else to beef up your immune systems?

 

If it is truly that terrible and you have compromised immune systems you might try home church or online church during flu season.

[ktgrok]

if it is just in those few minutes, can you bring hand sanitizer and use it immediately afterward? 

[KathyBC]

Say some variation of "We've been sick lately, here's a fist bump" and proceed to give fist bump instead.

[Tanaqui]

if it is just in those few minutes, can you bring hand sanitizer and use it immediately afterward? 

 

Multiple studies have shown that while use of hand sanitizer has some effect against the spread of gastro-intestinal disease (though not as much as traditional handwashing), it does bupkis against respiratory infection. Just something to keep in mind.

 

[alisoncooks]

Say some variation of "We've been sick lately, here's a fist bump" and proceed to give fist bump instead.

When DH had a compromised immune system from chemo, he gave everyone elbow bumps. Like a fist bump...but with his elbow, LOL.

[justasque]

Sitting way in the back might minimize the number of folks you are in contact with.

[marbel]

I wonder about a different approach - of course I know nothing about your church culture so please ignore if it's not appropriate.

 

What about asking the pastor/priest/leaders to stop it over the winter months?  Or even altogether?  Or perhaps at least put an announcement in the bulletin (if you have one) and a pulpit announcement (if your church does this) saying something like "during our greeting time, please feel free to decline a handshake or hug in order to avoid passing on illness. And, huggers, don't be offended if someone prefers a fistbump this winter." I'm sure there would be a better way to say it, but that's the point.

 

Honestly, any time of year there could be people who have immune problems. But there are also people who find forced handshaking, hugging, etc., to be very difficult.  I don't think it's a necessary part of a worship service.  (Though of course I don't know what  your worship tradition is so obviously I could be wrong there.)

 

 

Edited November 18, 2017 by marbel

[Starr]

If you sit within a couple three feet of anyone you can be exposed to respiratory illness. You are having a rough time of it. I’m so sorry, it’s miserable. The best you can do is lots of hand washing, no touching your own face or picking ones nose. And build up your own immune systems. Hopefully the rest of the fall/winter is better!

[barnwife]

I feel your pain, although we haven't had it quite so bad. 3 out of 4 kids have already had hand, foot, mouth. And we are all getting over a cold. Normally not too big a deal, except my dad is battling cancer and therefore has a compromised immune system.

Therefore we are trying to avoid germs so we can visit as much as possible, given that the reality is that we don't have much time left with him.

I am going with the wash your hands, wash your hands, wash your hands routine. Our kids have Sunday School before church, so they will need to wash hands between. And again before leaving church. And again when arriving home 5 minutes later.  I might not even be above moving my whole family to a new location in church if yours is coughing/sneezing away.
 

[BarbecueMom]

Multiple studies have shown that while use of hand sanitizer has some effect against the spread of gastro-intestinal disease (though not as much as traditional handwashing), it does bupkis against respiratory infection. Just something to keep in mind.

 

I thought that was the other way around? I'd bathe in it from November-March if it could kill norovirus.

[Tanaqui]

Nope, it's gastro. But really, the best thing is to wash your hands.

 

They're currently trialing a vaccine against norovirus. Fingers crossed!

[SKL]

I hate that greeting thing.  I used to come a little late to church so I would miss it.  Then they moved it to be later in the service, ugh.  No escape.  :P

 

What about washing your hands, then keeping gloves on up to the "shake hands" part and then remove the gloves for that?

[BarbecueMom]

Nope, it's gastro. But really, the best thing is to wash your hands.

 

They're currently trialing a vaccine against norovirus. Fingers crossed!

 

I'd pay to be in that research study. For now I'm going to put on my hazmat suit and go get my library holds.

[sbgrace]

Our old pastor stopped that greeting time in the winter months. The introvert in me liked that for other reasons! But maybe you could ask your pastor about doing a stop during these months when viruses spread so easily? 

 

Most viruses (colds, stomach bugs certainly), you can't get them by touch or even the air. You have to put the germs from your hands into your own mouth/nose/eyes to get sick. Flu virus can came through droplets/the air. But most of the mundane stuff can be prevented if you keep hands out of faces. Hard for kids though. I think the worst is when you they do this stuff, then have pick up food, eating with those hands. When my guys were little, I felt we always got sick after church because of snack time in the kids areas! 

 

 

[mlktwins]

I second elderberry syrup daily to beef up immunity. Eating healthy, lots of water. I really dislike the greeting thing in church and one of my boys HATES the smell of Purell.

[Guinevere]

Thanks for the ideas! I think my favorite so far is the hazmat suit! :)

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

Thanks for the ideas! I think my favorite so far is the hazmat suit! :)

 

 

Hazmat suit seems most effective.

 

 

Gloves and face mask? You can find some cute ones online :)

[trulycrabby]

My recommendation is to speak with the pastor, emphasize that 2017-2018 is predicted to be a worse than usual flu season, and ask if the congregation can instead do elbow bumps for the next few months like allisoncooks recommended.

 

I don't usually use Country Living as a scientific source, but this article consolidated the information I was looking for:

 

http://www.countryliving.com/life/news/a45463/flu-season-prediction-2017-2018/

 

Here's a scientific source: https://www.bcm.edu/news/infectious-diseases/experts-say-2017-flu-season-could-be-severe

Edited November 18, 2017 by trulycrabby

[tampamommy]

You have gotten some good practical suggestions here.

 

I am imagining the hazmat suit. It would be so worth it, just to see the reaction and make the point.

 

I think sadly, the real issue is why do people go to church when they or their children are ill? I just don't get it. Seems so...opposite of what common sense, consideration and the Golden Rule suggest. And if they do decide to go when ill, why would they not "self-censor" on the greeting? 

 

It's one of the mysteries of the known world to me. 

 

[RootAnn]

My favorite winter was the one when our priest was ill and enforced the "just wave to each other" version of the "kiss of peace" (equivalent). I highly suggest having that discussion with your pastor.

 

We keep to ourselves during the sign of peace as much as we can. After church with the shaking-hands/hugging fest, we mostly just try to get through the crowd as quickly as possible. If someone is really forceful about sticking their hand at us, the kids hide their hands (I throw mine up in the air) and beg off that we've been sick. Hand sanitizer is handed out liberally in the car for anyone who didn't get out without getting touched.

[rutamattatt]

We don't do the "greet your neighbor" thing during service, but we have to "walk the greeting gauntlet" on the way into service and it makes me CRAZY to see the greeters shaking hands with people over and over and over and then reach for my hand... a part of my germ hating soul dies a little inside every week.

 

I wear gloves until I sit down in my seat.  Every Sunday.  Even if it is warm out.  (We live in the South.). 

 

[Catwoman]

No advice here, Guinevere, but I'm so sorry you and your family are sick! It sounds like you're miserable! Do you think you have the flu? :grouphug:

[kiwik]

We do say hi to the person next to you - there is no need to touch them.

 

And I have been places with kids who are less than 100% because being at home 24/7 with no one but preschoolers to talk to for weeks on end is enough to drive me crazy. If you have a husband it may not be so bad I suppose.

Edited November 19, 2017 by kiwik

[maize]

You have gotten some good practical suggestions here.

 

I am imagining the hazmat suit. It would be so worth it, just to see the reaction and make the point.

 

I think sadly, the real issue is why do people go to church when they or their children are ill? I just don't get it. Seems so...opposite of what common sense, consideration and the Golden Rule suggest. And if they do decide to go when ill, why would they not "self-censor" on the greeting?

 

It's one of the mysteries of the known world to me.

Though the really tricky bit is that many viruses in particular are contagious before obvious signs of illness arise, and can also be shed sometimes for weeks after the illness has mostly resolved.

 

And there's stuff like RSV that can seem like just a mild cold to an adult or older child but can make an infant profoundly sick.

 

And some people that get a virus and are carriers/shedding but have no noticeable symptoms at all.

 

I admit I have sometimes fantasized of just locking the doors to my house and keeping everyone inside from November through March...

[maize]

I really wish we would take a hint from the Japanese and make it a social expectation that everyone wear a facemask if they have a cold or other illness.

 

And they've got the bowing instead of handshakes thing too.

Edited November 19, 2017 by maize

[BarbecueMom]

Though the really tricky bit is that many viruses in particular are contagious before obvious signs of illness arise, and can also be shed sometimes for weeks after the illness has mostly resolved.

 

And there's stuff like RSV that can seem like just a mild cold to an adult or older child but can make an infant profoundly sick.

 

And some people that get a virus and are carriers/shedding but have no noticeable symptoms at all.

 

I admit I have sometimes fantasized of just locking the doors to my house and keeping everyone inside from November through March...

We've been all but hermits the past two years during the winter due to an impending surgery and then autoimmune issues for a family member. And we stopped eating in restaurants due to DH's celiac. The difference was stunning. I haven't even had a cold in two years (honestly I'm kind of tired and ready for a forced sick break).

 

We're probably going to start co-op next fall and I'm already freaking out over the germy holiday cupcakes.

[HS Mom in NC]

Get some introverts or people who understand germ theory into leadership roles, then get them to put an end to the "greet your neighbor with empty token gestures" part of the service.  I go to a church that doesn't participate in that kind of nonsense.

You could simply not extend your hand for shaking and you could step backwards when someone leans in to hug you.  I have no idea how so many people in our society have never figured that it's actually rude to hug people without asking first.  No, not everyone wants to hug strangers, acquaintances and friends. Some people are able to interact with others without touching them. It's not a hard skill to master. Just make eye contact, say hello, and start chatting. People do it all the time outside of church, so it's not like those skills aren't transferable to church.

 

[Guinevere]

No advice here, Guinevere, but I'm so sorry you and your family are sick! It sounds like you're miserable! Do you think you have the flu? :grouphug:

Thanks. No, I don't think it's the flu. I think we'd be even sicker. I guess I don't know, though.

[ashfern]

Hand sanitizer! I have a bottle in the car & we use it liberally during this time of year everywhere we go. Also, wash your hands as soon as you get home. We run a diffuser with essential oils too.

[ktgrok]

I noticed today that during the Peace many people just waved at me when I turned to them. That was my cue not to attempt to shake hands.

[Garga]

My MIL's church is catholic and the priest tells everyone to give each other a nod in the winter.  No hand shaking, no germ swapping, just stately nods.  I wish my church would do that!

[solascriptura]

You know what I don’t get? The passing of the offering bag. Ours has two handles and every person touches that thing! I’ve started holding onto it by the ring. I’ve seen too many people with running noses and coughs touch the handles. I also make an effort to use the bathroom in order to wash my hands after the “extend the peace of Christ to one another†time.

[HS Mom in NC]

You know what I don’t get? The passing of the offering bag. Ours has two handles and every person touches that thing! I’ve started holding onto it by the ring. I’ve seen too many people with running noses and coughs touch the handles. I also make an effort to use the bathroom in order to wash my hands after the “extend the peace of Christ to one another†time.

 

We have giving boxes on the wall near the entrance to the sanctuary and online payment options.

 

[Chris in VA]

Get some introverts or people who understand germ theory into leadership roles, then get them to put an end to the "greet your neighbor with empty token gestures" part of the service.  I go to a church that doesn't participate in that kind of nonsense.

 

You could simply not extend your hand for shaking and you could step backwards when someone leans in to hug you.  I have no idea how so many people in our society have never figured that it's actually rude to hug people without asking first.  No, not everyone wants to hug strangers, acquaintances and friends. Some people are able to interact with others without touching them. It's not a hard skill to master. Just make eye contact, say hello, and start chatting. People do it all the time outside of church, so it's not like those skills aren't transferable to church.

 

 

Wow. 

 

YMMV, but it seems overly harsh to call this ancient part of a liturgical service "nonsense."

 

I do agree that one shouldn't barrel thru church or any other place, hugging and touching people against their will, and also think it fine to smile and explain that one is sick or avoiding sickness and therefore not passing the Peace in the traditional way. 

 

We have hand sanitizer in the pew, since we go up for Eucharist a little bit after the Peace. 

 

To the poster who mentioned it isn't effective against respiratory germs, do you know if the wipes that contain a soapy solution are better protection?

Edited November 21, 2017 by Chris in VA

[ThisIsTheDay]

Personally, I have found that it's not touching other people that's the problem, it's me touching my face or mouth after I touch them. It's easy to train yourself not to do it, not so easy to train kids who sometimes have the habit of sticking their fingers in their eyes, nose, mouth. I also never touch door handles. I push them open with the side of my arm or wrist, and if I have to pull them, I use my sleeve or the bottom of my shirt. I worked in a children's library for 5 years and got sick from them one time. The not touching my face (or anything in the public restrooms) made all the difference.

 

(I was also that mom who never let my kids touch the escalator rails unless they thought they were going to fall.)

[HS Mom in NC]

Wow. 

 

YMMV, but it seems overly harsh to call this ancient part of a liturgical service "nonsense."

 

I do agree that one shouldn't barrel thru church or any other place, hugging and touching people against their will, and also think it fine to smile and explain that one is sick or avoiding sickness and therefore not passing the Peace in the traditional way. 

 

We have hand sanitizer in the pew, since we go up for Eucharist a little bit after the Peace. 

 

To the poster who mentioned it isn't effective against respiratory germs, do you know if the wipes that contain a soapy solution are better protection?

 

What made you assume this only goes on in liturgical churches? And just because something has been done for a long time doesn't mean it automatically makes sense. We understand germ theory now.  It spreads germs and not everyone is an extrovert who finds meaning in a token greeting scheduled into part of the service.  It's typical of leadership to fit the extrovert category and decide that because it resonates with them it will resonate with others.  Yes, I dare question that and reflect the strong response people who aren't extroverts have at strangers hugging them and shaking hands with them because of some tradition.  Guess what?  Some people really don't like it and they don't have to smile and tolerate it because other people do. Enough people are finally speaking up and some leadership is actually listening so not everyone is subjected to it as part of a service.  Shocking I know.  I'm a woman who actually said straight out what I thought in a way that conveyed the depth of emotion and conviction that accompanies it.  Imagine!

[ktgrok]

I'm a woman who actually said straight out what I thought in a way that conveyed the depth of emotion and conviction that accompanies it.  Imagine!

 

Saying your thoughts can be done without insulting other people's religious practices.

[GailV]

Apparently there's been a recent study showing that new people/visitors to churches really dislike the handshaking/greetings during the service -- I'm not sure if it was negative enough to say "nope, not going back to THAT church," but it was still seen as a negative for the churches that do it.  Which doesn't help the OP, but maybe others who object to it could research a bit if they want to present that info to the powers-that-be in their churches.

 

All I have to offer for OP is sympathy.  Dh is typically a very forthright person, but even he has trouble with some of our "germ warriors" who are determined to touch every palm in the place.  

 

 

[Chris in VA]

What made you assume this only goes on in liturgical churches? And just because something has been done for a long time doesn't mean it automatically makes sense. We understand germ theory now.  It spreads germs and not everyone is an extrovert who finds meaning in a token greeting scheduled into part of the service.  It's typical of leadership to fit the extrovert category and decide that because it resonates with them it will resonate with others.  Yes, I dare question that and reflect the strong response people who aren't extroverts have at strangers hugging them and shaking hands with them because of some tradition.  Guess what?  Some people really don't like it and they don't have to smile and tolerate it because other people do. Enough people are finally speaking up and some leadership is actually listening so not everyone is subjected to it as part of a service.  Shocking I know.  I'm a woman who actually said straight out what I thought in a way that conveyed the depth of emotion and conviction that accompanies it.  Imagine!

 

nm

Edited November 22, 2017 by Chris in VA

[barnwife]

 

 

YMMV, but it seems overly harsh to call this ancient part of a liturgical service "nonsense."

 

 

What made you assume this only goes on in liturgical churches? And just because something has been done for a long time doesn't mean it automatically makes sense. We understand germ theory now.  It spreads germs and not everyone is an extrovert who finds meaning in a token greeting scheduled into part of the service.  It's typical of leadership to fit the extrovert category and decide that because it resonates with them it will resonate with others.  Yes, I dare question that and reflect the strong response people who aren't extroverts have at strangers hugging them and shaking hands with them because of some tradition.  Guess what?  Some people really don't like it and they don't have to smile and tolerate it because other people do. Enough people are finally speaking up and some leadership is actually listening so not everyone is subjected to it as part of a service.  Shocking I know.  I'm a woman who actually said straight out what I thought in a way that conveyed the depth of emotion and conviction that accompanies it.  Imagine!

Homeschool Mom in AZ, this response isn't like your usual responses. It's way over the top.

 

First, calling it a "token gesture" is certainly not true of all the churches who have such a thing in their service. Second, nowhere did anyone say it only goes on in liturgical churches. I believe that comment was meant to convey that a greeting of peace has been practiced as part of religious services for a long time. I read it as the phrase "liturgical service" being synonymous with "church service."

 

[poppy]

There are a guy in my church who fist bumps instead of hand shakes. Down low and with eye contact, not aggressively. Everyone, new and old, politely fist bumps back.  I like it, actually. It's the effort of reaching out , without really touching.

[maize]

Personally, I have found that it's not touching other people that's the problem, it's me touching my face or mouth after I touch them. It's easy to train yourself not to do it

How? How do you train yourself? I cannot seem to break the habit of touching my face--rubbing my nose, biting my knuckles, etc.