Jazzy Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 Have any of you found ways to help a teen learn to work quickly, efficiently, and with good accuracy? I don’t think my 16 yo has any learning disabilities. His test scores and grades are good. But he works very slowly and doesn’t seem to notice mistakes. He often seems lost in his own thoughts. I’ve tried setting timers. I’ve tried coaching - “Don’t look at/think about the dish, just wash it.†Eventually, I just gave up and hoped he’d mature. Long story, but he was fired from his job yesterday. The store owner (60) and an older co-worker (29) always had good feedback for him this summer - smart, dependable, mature, hardworking, etc. He dropped his hours down to one day/week this fall and got some added responsibilities, and over the past few weeks, the manager he worked with grew increasingly frustrated with his speed and frequent mistakes. He was unable to course correct, and yesterday, she got angry, told him off for his inability to learn, remember, etc. and fired him. He’d had no idea his job was in jeopardy. Anyway, I am not happy with her, but my main concern is that I don’t want this to become a pattern for him. Most jobs require reasonable speed and infrequent errors. What are some ways I can help him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chanley Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 Does he have ADHD? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzy Posted November 16, 2017 Author Share Posted November 16, 2017 (edited) No, I don’t think he does. He’s definitely not hyperactive, and I’ve never noticed any ADD symptoms. His co-op teachers have said he’s not especially talkative in class, but always pays attention and knows what’s being discussed/can answer when called upon. He struggles with being neat/organized, but I don’t think any worse than the average teen. He gets his schoolwork done daily without issue. In addition to moving slowly, he can’t seem to juggle multiple tasks and gets flustered when having to think/move quickly. His issues at his job were not making pizzas quickly or remembering to put ingredients on in the right order. He could never get the cash register stuff down. He handled back end/prep work just fine all summer. When the extra duties were added, he couldn’t pick it up. Said he always forgot something or messed up somehow. Wanted to do better, but couldn’t. The angrier his boss was, the worse he did. :( Edited November 16, 2017 by Jazzy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helena Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 This reminds me of when my then senior took an online Russian Lit class. One day she came to me and said that the teacher was the most amazing combination of tough and loving. She made my daughter do things until she got it right and didn't coddle her. She was supportive and treated my daughter like she knew she could do the task well. That one teacher at the end of her high school career made such a huge impact on my daughters work ethics. I wish I could tell you how to find that, but I can tell you that the right people and experiences are out there for this personality type. They can and do blossom! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzy Posted November 16, 2017 Author Share Posted November 16, 2017 That is encouraging, helena. Thank you for sharing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helena Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 When she reverts I like to think about sending her to school in Russia. ;) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 In addition to moving slowly, he can’t seem to juggle multiple tasks and gets flustered when having to think/move quickly. His issues at his job were not making pizzas quickly or remembering to put ingredients on in the right order. He could never get the cash register stuff down. He handled back end/prep work just fine all summer. When the extra duties were added, he couldn’t pick it up. Said he always forgot something or messed up somehow. Wanted to do better, but couldn’t. The angrier his boss was, the worse he did. :(It is a job mismatch. There are people better at back end jobs and there are people better at “firefightingâ€/constant think on your feet jobs. His boss needs better management skills though. For example, a store keeper or a logistic personnel have more control over the execution of their jobs. A cashier on the other hand has to have quick reaction time and be always alert. I was working at a grocer chain after high school graduation as a seasonal worker. Being the backup cashier was exhausting since everyone was buying groceries in the hundreds for the equivalent of thanksgiving dinner prep. My main job however was stocking and tallying which was wonderful because I could get a cup of coffee and help the stockkeeper at the big storeroom tally stocks, check invoices to make sure the dollar amounts are correct and stuff like that. My mental math skills were better used for bookkeeping than for cashiering. I don’t handle front end customer service well, the endless flow of complaints is exhausting. Like getting a long line of customers with defective phones for example. I handle escalation cases very well like what is causing a laptop to power cycle randomly. So your son might want to look for part time jobs at large organizations/stores where they get fixed jobs instead of job rotation. I won’t have survived working at a McDonalds fast food restaurant but I would be relatively happy working at a McDonalds corporate office. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Targhee Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 (edited) Quoting OP: But he works very slowly and doesn’t seem to notice mistakes. He often seems lost in his own thoughts. I’ve tried setting timers. I’ve tried coaching - “Don’t look at/think about the dish, just wash it.†and "In addition to moving slowly, he can’t seem to juggle multiple tasks and gets flustered when having to think/move quickly. His issues at his job were not making pizzas quickly or remembering to put ingredients on in the right order." These ARE symptoms of ADHD, though they can be of other things as well. Does he have trouble with remembering where things are? Does he have a poor sense of time? Edited November 16, 2017 by Targhee 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzy Posted November 17, 2017 Author Share Posted November 17, 2017 It is a job mismatch. There are people better at back end jobs and there are people better at “firefightingâ€/constant think on your feet jobs. His boss needs better management skills though. For example, a store keeper or a logistic personnel have more control over the execution of their jobs. A cashier on the other hand has to have quick reaction time and be always alert. I was working at a grocer chain after high school graduation as a seasonal worker. Being the backup cashier was exhausting since everyone was buying groceries in the hundreds for the equivalent of thanksgiving dinner prep. My main job however was stocking and tallying which was wonderful because I could get a cup of coffee and help the stockkeeper at the big storeroom tally stocks, check invoices to make sure the dollar amounts are correct and stuff like that. My mental math skills were better used for bookkeeping than for cashiering. I don’t handle front end customer service well, the endless flow of complaints is exhausting. Like getting a long line of customers with defective phones for example. I handle escalation cases very well like what is causing a laptop to power cycle randomly. So your son might want to look for part time jobs at large organizations/stores where they get fixed jobs instead of job rotation. I won’t have survived working at a McDonalds fast food restaurant but I would be relatively happy working at a McDonalds corporate office. Thanks for sharing this! I had been thinking he just might not have a knack for front end work. This is something I’ll talk to him about. He needs to choose his next job more carefully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzy Posted November 17, 2017 Author Share Posted November 17, 2017 Quoting OP: But he works very slowly and doesn’t seem to notice mistakes. He often seems lost in his own thoughts. I’ve tried setting timers. I’ve tried coaching - “Don’t look at/think about the dish, just wash it.†and "In addition to moving slowly, he can’t seem to juggle multiple tasks and gets flustered when having to think/move quickly. His issues at his job were not making pizzas quickly or remembering to put ingredients on in the right order." These ARE symptoms of ADHD, though they can be of other things as well. Does he have trouble with remembering where things are? Does he have a poor sense of time? I haven’t noticed any trouble remembering where things are, but he does seem to lose track of time when doing things. It always takes 3 to 4 times longer than it should. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bootsie Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 If he dropped his hours to one day per week and got added responsibilities, is there an issue that there was too much time between doing tasks last week and this week to remember? Building speed and accuracy can take practice at the same task. If he isn't doing the task again for another week I wonder if he is relearning it all over each week. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzy Posted November 17, 2017 Author Share Posted November 17, 2017 If he dropped his hours to one day per week and got added responsibilities, is there an issue that there was too much time between doing tasks last week and this week to remember? Building speed and accuracy can take practice at the same task. If he isn't doing the task again for another week I wonder if he is relearning it all over each week. My husband mentioned that, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 These ARE symptoms of ADHD, though they can be of other things as well. Absolutely. As soon as I read the OP, I thought, "He has ADHD." People are often confused because they think kids with ADHD have to be hyperactive, but that is just one symptom that may present. It's not a requirement or the defining factor. ADHD is an executive function disorder, and all the things you describe are executive function issues. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Targhee Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 I haven’t noticed any trouble remembering where things are, but he does seem to lose track of time when doing things. It always takes 3 to 4 times longer than it should. This could be an issue to low processing speed, or even teenage brain fog, but I would seriously explore the possibility of ADHD. I have three with it, and the oldest is inattentive type. It almost looks like HYPOactivity, but it is ADHD - gets lost in own thoughts, has issues staying focused (especially when there is a lot going on - noises, people, moving things, etc - because it is hard to harness the focus and let other things fade into the background), difficulty with organization and materials management, difficulty with the perception of elapsed time or accurately estimating the time necessary to complete a task, difficulty with planning multiple steps to accomplish a goal, and prone to emotional sensitivity or emotional flooding (may come out as anger, or as a tendency to retreat/hide from the world). There is more, but I would suggest you reading up on it, not because I want your child to have ADHD but because if your child does have ADHD, which is completely independent from whether or not you think they do, there are different ways to help them to be successful with the very types of things you seem concerned about. Best wishes! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 (edited) I haven’t noticed any trouble remembering where things are, but he does seem to lose track of time when doing things. It always takes 3 to 4 times longer than it should.In my home and extended family, boring task takes longer because we daydream (or fall asleep) or is done sloppily. My DS11 has slow processing speed. The link explains about slow processing speed and what it impacts. https://www.davidsongifted.org/Search-Database/entry/A10782 Has your child even been in a brick and mortar classroom environment? My slow poke takes much longer at home than in a classroom for the same kind of homework. He just works better in a group environment. My older boy helps him but he needs more than one kid doing the same task to speed up on his own task. I find that eight is the minimum class size he can cope with, he actually does better in big class sizes. He does better at the library with all the little kids running around than at home because he also sees many people doing work. Also executive function skills are learned whether through life experiences or modeling. Page 3 of this Harvard article has some tips on executive function skills for teens. The first two pages are a little blurry but page 3 is clear. https://46y5eh11fhgw3ve3ytpwxt9r-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Activities-for-Adolescents.pdf The original page that links to that pdf is here https://developingchild.harvard.edu/resources/activities-guide-enhancing-and-practicing-executive-function-skills-with-children-from-infancy-to-adolescence/ ETA: Link is to a ADHD/ADD questionnaire. We had to fill up something similar and equally long when DS11 was evaluated. They also want at least a teacher or instructor to fill up the questionnaire form too. https://depts.washington.edu/dbpeds/Screening%20Tools/SNAP.pdf Edited November 17, 2017 by Arcadia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie12345 Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 My first thought was ADHD, too, even though I have it and thrived in the pizza and cashier worlds, lol. It definitely manifests differently in different people. My daughter has it, and she tends to be on the slowpoke side. I'm more of a run, run, run, crash and burn, get up and run again kind of person. My daughter requires a lot of supervision and scaffolding. I need everyone to leave me alone and let me get things done my way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudoMom Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 In addition to moving slowly, he can’t seem to juggle multiple tasks and gets flustered when having to think/move quickly. His issues at his job were not making pizzas quickly or remembering to put ingredients on in the right order. He could never get the cash register stuff down. He handled back end/prep work just fine all summer. When the extra duties were added, he couldn’t pick it up. Said he always forgot something or messed up somehow. Wanted to do better, but couldn’t. The angrier his boss was, the worse he did. :( :(. This made my heart hurt for your boy and I want to kick the lady that handled the firing so poorly in the shins. I don't have any advice, but wanted to let you know I'm sorry. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 (edited) The manager needs management, mentoring, and emotional management training. As for your son, I agree that he is showing symptoms of ADHD or at least executive functioning deficit (may not meet all criteria for ADHD). There seems to be a sub form of ADHD that primarily manifests as low arousal in the brain--people with this form are often quite mellow emotionally, their brain is just kind of sluggish in processing stuff, possibly because of low circulating levels if some neurotransmitters. Edited November 18, 2017 by maize 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzy Posted November 18, 2017 Author Share Posted November 18, 2017 :(. This made my heart hurt for your boy and I want to kick the lady that handled the firing so poorly in the shins. I don't have any advice, but wanted to let you know I'm sorry. Thank you so much. My heart just broke when I found out how she treated him. He may be a terrible pizza worker, but he’s a great kid. Never gives us any trouble. There were a number of ways she could have let him go without humiliating him. It took everything in me not to call her up and tell her about her own deficiencies. It did introduce him to the real world, though, and the types of people/situations he’ll have to deal with. Glad it happened while he’s still living at home. Also, I just consider it God’s perfect timing that we got his official SAT scores back yesterday. They were good - even better than we expected - so it was a real boost for him and gave us something else to focus on this weekend. Thank you all for the feedback, and thanks, Arcadia, for the links. I’ve checked out some library books dealing with slow processing and executive functioning. Also, dh has a coworker with a daughter who is similar, and they did some pretty intense career skills testing with her to help identify jobs/fields that might be a good match. We’re thinking that might be a good investment for ds. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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