Clothes borrowing between 2 sisters. Help!

[Miss Peregrine]

Dd17 gets angry with me when she discovers that dd 15 wore her clothes without asking. Because I drive dd15 to school, Dd17 thinks I should pay better attention and send her back inside to change. I've talked to dd15 about asking first and she says ok. But she doesn't. It can be days before Dd17 discovers something is missing. She wants me to "do something" about it.

 

To further complicate it, dd15 has given dd17 permission to wear whatever she wants when she wants. Dd17 has not given that permission and will, in fact, say no most of the time when dd15 does ask.

 

How much should I be involved in this? Should I be giving consequences?

 

I am going through some real crap right now and can't think clearly about this. Help appreciated.

[linders]

Tough one. While it would be wonderful and kind for DD17 to share more readily, she doesn't want to. Maybe there is a reason. But DD15 needs to understand in no uncertain terms that "borrowing" without permission is stealing. Perhaps there can be a consequence such as doing a chore for DD17 each time?

[bettyandbob]

I was the younger sister. I didn't borrow I did ask, but was never granted the opportunity. not do what my parents did. They said it was ok for older sister to borrow my stuff. The favorite items were things I'd purchased with my own money.

 

However I was forbidden from borrowing anything from older sister. The reasoning was I was "the baby" and didn't know how to take care of stuff.

 

 

 

I think you get a lock for the older dd's closet and she is responsible for making sure it is locked.

[Guinevere]

I'd be tempted to put a small dot with a sharpie on the tag of all dd17s clothes. Then, a quick smiley "tag check!" before we pulled out. I'd keep a spare nonfavorite outfit of dd15 in the car. She can change on the way to school. No one loses time, dd17 doesn't have to share, and dd15 experienced slight discomfort if she tries to disrespect her sister.

[Ottakee]

While sharing might be ideal, I would crack down on 15dd for "borrowing" her older sister's things with out permission.  It is not going to be OK with a roommate or others.  If she gets an allowance/has money, maybe have her pay 17dd a "rental fee" each time she wears something without permission.

 

Is there a reason why she wants 17dd's clothes?  

[Ausmumof3]

I don't think you are responsible for noticing or knowing whose clothes are whose but you are responsible for teaching dd15 that taking someone's stuff without asking first is disrespectful. So I wouldn't be checking what she's wearing but I would enforce some kind of consequence when dd17 points out she's wearing her clothes.

 

My thing like this in my house is Lego. Sorry kids - there's no way I have the mental space to keep track of whose is whose. If you leave it out and I have to put it away it might end up in the wrong kids room. But if you help yourself to their Lego without asking and it causes trouble there's going to be some consequences.

[Melissa in Australia]

I agree with the lock on the wadrobe. Maybe even a lock on the bedroom door. A person has the right to not have their clothes stolen by a sibling. 

[bolt.]

I wouldn't check the clothes, but I would levy a "fine" (a monetary consequence) and a strong lecture (about how theft is wrong at all times, and that it is particularly offensive to wrong your loved ones, especially with a casual attitude) if any child of mine was helping herself to other people's belongings.

 

I wonder where she got the idea that this was ok?

 

What would you do if you found out that she had been 'borrowing' various bits of kitchenware from your mother's house -- or another similar scenario with another family member?

Edited November 16, 2017 by bolt.

[AK_Mom4]

Shut down the borrowing of clothes. By either girl.

 

If someone takes clothes from the other, they have to pay for them.

 

I admit I would lose my temper with “borrowing†DD and she would prolly lose all her clothes except for two outfits for the next week. Not great parenting.

[Catwoman]

Dd17 gets angry with me when she discovers that dd 15 wore her clothes without asking. Because I drive dd15 to school, Dd17 thinks I should pay better attention and send her back inside to change. I've talked to dd15 about asking first and she says ok. But she doesn't. It can be days before Dd17 discovers something is missing. She wants me to "do something" about it.

 

To further complicate it, dd15 has given dd17 permission to wear whatever she wants when she wants. Dd17 has not given that permission and will, in fact, say no most of the time when dd15 does ask.

 

How much should I be involved in this? Should I be giving consequences?

 

I am going through some real crap right now and can't think clearly about this. Help appreciated.

Dd15 is way out of line. It's not borrowing if she doesn't have her sister's permission; it's just plain stealing.

 

What would you do if you found out your dd was "borrowing" a friend's clothes without permission? This situation is no different just because it's her sister and not a friend.

 

Why does your dd15 feel that she should be entitled to walk into her sister's room and take whatever she wants? I think it's pretty awful that she's doing it, and it doesn't matter whether or not she would mind if your older dd did the same thing to her because your older dd should be allowed to decide if and when she wants to share any of her possessions.

 

Also, if your dd17 actually started "borrowing" your dd15's favorite outfits all the time, I'll bet dd15 wouldn't be too happy about it. She is probably saying she's fine with it because she figures your older dd won't want to wear a 15yo's clothes.

[Liz CA]

Well...not your responsibility. Perhaps give dd17 a lock for her door with a key for Christmas?

Talk to dd15 what the difference between borrowing and taking without permission is.

[Annie G]

Asking you to be aware whether dd15 is wearing her own clothes is not your job. But dd15 has to learn it's not ok to steal her sister's clothes.  Dd17 shouldn't have to lock her room every time she leaves, either.  I don't have a solution to offer, but I do feel for your 17dd.  Nobody should be forced to share. Sure, it's nice, but it's ok to want your own stuff, too.  

 

I guess I'd have to sit down w both girls and have them talk it out while you watch/moderate/step in as needed. You might find out why dd15 feels entitled. (Like, does dd17 have a lot more clothes? Is it because she works and buys them? Dd15 needs to understand that she'll have a job one day and will then have her own stuff. Or whatever the reasoning is.)

 

Sorry- I know this is frustrating. Teenagers not getting along feels a lot like toddlers fighting over toys. 

[HS Mom in NC]

If, after talking to my 15 year old about not taking without asking, she did it again, there would serious consequences. Grounding, loss of privileges, something that's particularly unpleasant for her.   No, you may not take what doesn't belong to you without permission.  We discussed it and I told you it wasn't acceptable.  While it's not the end of the world related to wearing clothes, it's disturbing that someone that age doesn't grasp the underlying morals and boundaries issue here.  People should not take what doesn't belong to them without express permission-large or small, valuable or not valuable; either way, you can't take what doesn't belong to you without permission.  It seems the kid is thumbing her nose at mom and sister with her "I do what I want regardless of what anyone else wants or says" attitude. That's a problematic entitlement attitude. If I were the older daughter I'd have serious issues with both my mother and sister not respecting my boundaries.

[HS Mom in NC]

Shut down the borrowing of clothes. By either girl.

 

If someone takes clothes from the other, they have to pay for them.

 

I admit I would lose my temper with “borrowing†DD and she would prolly lose all her clothes except for two outfits for the next week. Not great parenting.

 

Sounds reasonable to me if it's been an ongoing issue.

 

[happypamama]

I would have a long talk, lay down the law, impose a consequence, and make DD15 pay in whatever currency matters to her. If that’s actual money, then she needs to pay heftily to her sister, and she needs to purchase a lock for DD17’s closet.

[mommyoffive]

Wow I am surprised by the response. 

 

 

Here is how I handle it now with my kids.  That nothing is really theirs so people can use things of others in our house.  

Since the kids don't buy anything I don't believe any thing is "theirs"

I get them to think that they get to use or have what their sibling has so it is a win win.  

 

I would rather promote a fun sharing home than put locks on doors and dressers.   

[Tanaqui]

I agree with everybody else - unless they literally share a closet, there's no reason that your older girl can't keep her clothes in a locked wardrobe or trunk. The easiest way to handle these tricky situations is to ensure they don't come up.

[Tanaqui]

I would rather promote a fun sharing home than put locks on doors and dressers. 

 

Sharing is not so "fun" when your sister gets your clothes stained or ripped, or doesn't put them in the laundry, or misplaces them. I'd rather promote a fun "respect personal space" home than one where nobody is allowed to have their own things and keep them safe.

 

Since the kids don't buy anything I don't believe any thing is "theirs"

 

Once you give something to somebody else, they own it - not you. Are you saying that if your friend gives you a necklace, it doesn't really belong to you? I don't disagree with communal property in all things, especially for littles, but these kids are nearly grown - they deserve to have their own things that they keep for themselves.

 

Edited November 16, 2017 by Tanaqui

[KungFuPanda]

There absolutely SHOULD be consequences for repeatedly taking someone else’s things without asking. It’s completely disrespectful.

 

ETA Older sister shouldn’t have to lock things up in her own home and younger sister is going to be THAT roommate in college if this lesson isn’t taught to her. Imagine she was taking something of yours or Dh’s without permission.

Edited November 16, 2017 by KungFuPanda

[City Mouse]

Wow I am surprised by the response.

 

 

Here is how I handle it now with my kids. That nothing is really theirs so people can use things of others in our house.

Since the kids don't buy anything I don't believe any thing is "theirs"

I get them to think that they get to use or have what their sibling has so it is a win win.

 

I would rather promote a fun sharing home than put locks on doors and dressers.

So nothing the 17yr old has should be hers and hers alone? Everything should be up for grabs by any sibling? That seems like a recipe for an even bigger problems.

[Miss Peregrine]

I will answer  a few questions and then go back and quote when I have more time. 

 

They share a room and a closet so no locking anything up. DD15 thinks dd17's clothes are cuter. She has an equal opportunity to buy cute things but in the store she doesn't like any of it.

 

She also has  major problem doing her laundry. I will wash anyone's clothes if they are sorted into the bins in the laundry room. She lets them pile up for a week and then has to dig dirty stuff out. Or take her sister's.

 

I have never required my kids to "share" and agree that dd17 should not have to if she doesn't want to.

 

 

 

[Miss Peregrine]

If, after talking to my 15 year old about not taking without asking, she did it again, there would serious consequences. Grounding, loss of privileges, something that's particularly unpleasant for her.   No, you may not take what doesn't belong to you without permission.  We discussed it and I told you it wasn't acceptable.  While it's not the end of the world related to wearing clothes, it's disturbing that someone that age doesn't grasp the underlying morals and boundaries issue here.  People should not take what doesn't belong to them without express permission-large or small, valuable or not valuable; either way, you can't take what doesn't belong to you without permission.  It seems the kid is thumbing her nose at mom and sister with her "I do what I want regardless of what anyone else wants or says" attitude. That's a problematic entitlement attitude. If I were the older daughter I'd have serious issues with both my mother and sister not respecting my boundaries.

 

 She thinks it's funny. Admitting that is hard. She thinks its funny. :(

[bolt.]

Wow I am surprised by the response.

 

 

Here is how I handle it now with my kids. That nothing is really theirs so people can use things of others in our house.

Since the kids don't buy anything I don't believe any thing is "theirs"

I get them to think that they get to use or have what their sibling has so it is a win win.

 

I would rather promote a fun sharing home than put locks on doors and dressers.

If they were 5 and 7, sharing stuffed toys and playmobil, I'd be right there with you. We've very much had the general approach that 'most of the toys belong to both of the kids'.

 

However, there are exceptions, even at young ages (each child has one bike, and should ride that bike; no, you can't just take your sister's bedding because you like it better; yes, only the elder child is old enough for this toy, etc). As kids become older teens and young adults, clothes are about identity, many of them are very special items, often teens are making their own purchases or receiving gifts, and it's no small inconvenience when you planned to wear something specific -- then find out that it left the house without you that morning.

 

In this case, if it was "fun" the 17 year old would be feeling fine and saying 'yeah, no problem' all the time. By this report we can clearly see that it isn't fun for her. It's disruptive and intrusive. She has a right to say no. Having a parent doesn't mean you don't take ownership of the clothes on your back -- they are family members, not serfs.

 

If 15yo was honest in her dealings, could take no for an answer, was careful with the clothes, etc -- then I might make an effort to encourage the elder to try and see that sharing can be a form of bonding, and maybe release her need to be so protective of the clothes... but, where it's at now, and with less than 12 months left to be parenting *any* issue in that child's life, I wouldn't consider it a worthwhile goal.

[Ottakee]

Wow I am surprised by the response.

 

 

Here is how I handle it now with my kids. That nothing is really theirs so people can use things of others in our house.

Since the kids don't buy anything I don't believe any thing is "theirs"

I get them to think that they get to use or have what their sibling has so it is a win win.

 

I would rather promote a fun sharing home than put locks on doors and dressers.

Can the kids just come and take anything of yours or Dh's without permission and use it? I think kids deserve the same respect.

 

We actually found that there was MORE sharing when the "owner" of the item had the power to share or not. We actually for many many years (and sometimes still do) open gifts with a black sharpie markers at hand. We just out a tiny initial on the item if several kids get the same or similar things. Then everyone knows whose is whose and I can easily see who left something out.

 

It reduced sibling bickering by 90% in our home. Instead if they wanted to play with something they asked permission and often offered up a trade....may I play with your doll and you may play with my horse...type thing.

[Miss Peregrine]

Sharing is not so "fun" when your sister gets your clothes stained or ripped, or doesn't put them in the laundry, or misplaces them. I'd rather promote a fun "respect personal space" home than one where nobody is allowed to have their own things and keep them safe.

Yes. DD15 has stained things or shoves them under the bed not to be found for a week or two. She's plain disrespectful.  Not surprisingly, this carried over into other areas of life. . . 

[bolt.]

She thinks it's funny. Admitting that is hard. She thinks its funny. :(

It shouldn't be hard to admit that our kids still have some moral growing up to do... but it is.

 

She is the one who needs your help in this situation. She needs ongoing help to get past the idea that it's fun to 'get a rise' out of someone, or that it is clever to outsmart rules (that are there to protect others and preserve fair treatment for everyone). How do you think you might help take the sense of accomplishment and amusement out of this?

 

Can you covertly begin to connect it with some sense of justice where she already believes that people (in general) should be treated fairly, as equals -- to build from strength? Can you do some mentoring towards empathy and true-core respect for the humanity of others, not en-masse but one-by-one, nearest first? (Is there maybe some 'health class' curriculum?)

 

You do have a few years yet to try to lead her towards these important values. It should be doable.

Edited November 16, 2017 by bolt.

[Bambam]

It would be nice if 17 yo would share, but I wouldn't force it at all.

 

I would start to impose consequences on DD15. She borrows something without asking, she pays a fee (I'd start small - maybe $5/item and ramp up) or she has to do older sister's chores (all of them and to your satisfaction). 

 

I wouldn't be the police, but if I noticed younger wearing older sister's clothes, I'd send her back to change. If she is late to school because of it, oh well, that is a consequence. 

 

It does make more trouble for you since DD15 is over-stepping boundaries, but it is the parent's job to help children learn these boundaries and to keep older one safe too. I know it is tough sometimes to get in this situations - especially when you hope both girls are mature enough to handle this themselves. 

[HomeAgain]

Your DD15 sounds like she needs a lot more oversight, like mandatory laundry and room cleaning being done each week along with you checking her room before she does anything: tv, goes out, gets her cell phone for the next week.....

 

 

[Catwoman]

Wow I am surprised by the response.

 

 

Here is how I handle it now with my kids. That nothing is really theirs so people can use things of others in our house.

Since the kids don't buy anything I don't believe any thing is "theirs"

I get them to think that they get to use or have what their sibling has so it is a win win.

 

I would rather promote a fun sharing home than put locks on doors and dressers.

 

Wow. I disagree with this post on almost every level.

 

If I give my child a gift, it belongs to HIM.

 

I don't know how old your kids are, but I hope your "fun sharing" idea works for you as your kids grow up and that they don't become incredibly selfish once they are able to have things that are theirs alone. I would have hated to grow up thinking that nothing ever belonged to me. Don't your kids even have their own favorite toy that no one else can take from them? What happens when people give your kids gifts? Do they not own those items either? Are they even forced to share their gifts?

 

And just because kids don't have to share their possessions with each other doesn't mean that anyone should have to lock anything up. It's not difficult for kids to remember what belongs to them and what belongs to their siblings.

Edited November 16, 2017 by Catwoman

[ksr5377]

Just wanted to add that I was the older DD that was always forced to share with all my younger siblings.  I was a TERRIBLE roommate my first two years of college.  It didn't make sense to me that my roommates and I wouldn't just share everything, because that's what I was used to.  At the time I thought they were mean and stingy, now I cringe when I think of my behavior.  Just because they borrowed a shirt of mine did NOT mean that I had the right to borrow anything of theirs without asking.  I feel so bad for them now!

[Catwoman]

I will answer  a few questions and then go back and quote when I have more time. 

 

They share a room and a closet so no locking anything up. DD15 thinks dd17's clothes are cuter. She has an equal opportunity to buy cute things but in the store she doesn't like any of it.

 

She also has  major problem doing her laundry. I will wash anyone's clothes if they are sorted into the bins in the laundry room. She lets them pile up for a week and then has to dig dirty stuff out. Or take her sister's.

 

I have never required my kids to "share" and agree that dd17 should not have to if she doesn't want to.

  

She thinks it's funny. Admitting that is hard. She thinks its funny. :(

  

Yes. DD15 has stained things or shoves them under the bed not to be found for a week or two. She's plain disrespectful.  Not surprisingly, this carried over into other areas of life. . .

 

Oh wow. This is worse than I thought. :(

 

Your dd15 needs some very serious consequences for her terrible and entitled attitude, as well as for the stealing. And it really is stealing when she takes things without permission, damages them, and then hides them. That is incredibly dishonest and sneaky, and that is very, very serious. As others have said, this kind of behavior may not disappear when she's covertly "borrowing" things from college dorm rooms.

 

I don't normally rush to recommend therapy, but your dd15 seems to lack much of a conscience, and if she's willing to steal from and lie to her own family, that's not a great indicator of how she may also be behaving with people outside the family. I would be very worried that she might decide that shoplifting or stealing from a friend's house was okay, too, simply because she wants the stuff she's taking and she feels she's entitled to have it. Something needs to be done before the police show up at your house and tell you they need to speak with your daughter about some missing items -- because it really could happen. It doesn't sound like she even thinks she's wrong when she steals from her sister, so what else will she do because she thinks it's "funny?"

 

I'm so sorry to say this and I hope I'm not being too harsh, but I think your dd15 has far more serious issues than taking her sister's clothes. :grouphug:

[Tanaqui]

15 year olds are still children, and many of them do still outgrow bad behavior (criminal behavior seems to peak around age 19, iirc, and then declines steadily until age 24) - but, like Catwoman, I think this sounds worse and worse.

 

I still think a lock is a good idea for now. Can you get your older daughter a trunk, or a legit locker to put her things in? It doesn't have to go in her room, it can go wherever you have the space, and she can bring it with her when she goes to college. You should do this in conjunction with labeling each girl's clothes on the tags. (Even two trunks might be a good idea - one to go under the bed, to hold what she loves and wants to wear often, and one for out-of-season and things she wears less often.) Edit: If your older daughter likes hanging up her clothes, I'd get HER a lock for the closet door and have the younger girl put her things in a trunk or in the dresser. She's the reason you're making this change, and she can go back to using a closet when her sister leaves for college.

 

Not having to worry about this will give you all the mental energy to get your younger daughter the help she needs. I don't know if therapy is the answer, or better supervision, or discipline, but....

 

Edited November 16, 2017 by Tanaqui

[Miss Peregrine]

    

Oh wow. This is worse than I thought. :(

 

Your dd15 needs some very serious consequences for her terrible and entitled attitude, as well as for the stealing. And it really is stealing when she takes things without permission, damages them, and then hides them. That is incredibly dishonest and sneaky, and that is very, very serious. As others have said, this kind of behavior may not disappear when she's covertly "borrowing" things from college dorm rooms.

 

I don't normally rush to recommend therapy, but your dd15 seems to lack much of a conscience, and if she's willing to steal from and lie to her own family, that's not a great indicator of how she may also be behaving with people outside the family. I would be very worried that she might decide that shoplifting or stealing from a friend's house was okay, too, simply because she wants the stuff she's taking and she feels she's entitled to have it. Something needs to be done before the police show up at your house and tell you they need to speak with your daughter about some missing items -- because it really could happen. It doesn't sound like she even thinks she's wrong when she steals from her sister, so what else will she do because she thinks it's "funny?"

 

I'm so sorry to say this and I hope I'm not being too harsh, but I think your dd15 has far more serious issues than taking her sister's clothes. :grouphug:

Cat, you didn't say anything I haven't been thinking myself, sadly.

[Catwoman]

Cat, you didn't say anything I haven't been thinking myself, sadly.

I'm so sorry. :( I hope we're all wrong and your dd will very soon start realizing the error of her ways.

[Joker]

I don't think she needs therapy or it's as horrible as others think.

 

I would try to come up with a plan to be very involved with her laundry situation for a while, though. That doesn't mean you have to be responsible for doing her laundry but you could come up with a day or time that you make her get her clothes (wherever they may be) and do her own laundry. You can even say you will start doing hers again along with the others once she is putting them where you want them without being asked but until then she is doing them when you say.

 

I would also try to come up with a plan like others have said so the clothes are separated for a while so older doesn't have to keep putting up with younger taking her stuff. 

 

Also, maybe for birthdays/holidays you, or sister, buy her some of those clothes that she doesn't like in the store but she seems to like at home.

 

I have one who is just naturally neat and follows how things go in our home and one who needs a lot of intervention and help for some things to become a habit. I can also see how one may laugh it off like it's just funny because they're actually embarrassed they can't get it together and have clean clothes when they need them. Sometimes, especially at 15, it can just be hard to admit you're wrong and need help. 

[maize]

It sounds to me like the 15 year old might have executive function difficulties.

 

Signs: a tendency to be messy, difficulty staying on top of things like laundry, acting on impulse and not thinking through consequences, not catching on to social expectations.

 

Does she struggle with getting assignments done and turned in on time? That would be another big clue.

[wendy not in HI]

I have 6 sisters. My mom says her biggest regret in raising us was allowing us to share clothes. She says if she could do it again she would outlaw clothes sharing!!

 

Our biggest fights as teenagers (and there were a lot of teenagers for a lot of years) were over clothes sharing (actually, taking without asking. Ruining. Losing. Letting a friend borrow and never getting it back, etc.) I still think about those adorable sandals that I bought with my first real paycheck and wore once. Then I let my sister wear them and she ran through the sprinklers. The leather stretched out and I was never able to wear them again. So sad!

 

The thing is, sharing seems to make sense: hey, we wear the same size! More options! More to go around! But it never seems to work out.

 

I’m sorry your girls are fighting. That’s the worst. I hope you can find a way to negotiate a solution!! A key for your 17 year old’s closet??

[Ali in OR]

While I agree that younger sister has some issues that need to be worked on, I don't think the ideal is that no one ever shares. My sister and I shared clothes and my two girls who share a room occasionally borrow clothes from each other. With the right attitude, it's fun. Your wardrobe is much larger, you get to try some styles you wouldn't have chosen for yourself, etc. My sister and I loved creating outfits with each other, and my dds will do that too. But of course that has to come with respect and care for belongings.

[Miss Peregrine]

I wouldn't check the clothes, but I would levy a "fine" (a monetary consequence) and a strong lecture (about how theft is wrong at all times, and that it is particularly offensive to wrong your loved ones, especially with a casual attitude) if any child of mine was helping herself to other people's belongings.

 

I wonder where she got the idea that this was ok?

 

What would you do if you found out that she had been 'borrowing' various bits of kitchenware from your mother's house -- or another similar scenario with another family member?

All three of us just talked. She says they are "just clothes."

[Miss Peregrine]

It sounds to me like the 15 year old might have executive function difficulties.

 

Signs: a tendency to be messy, difficulty staying on top of things like laundry, acting on impulse and not thinking through consequences, not catching on to social expectations.

 

Does she struggle with getting assignments done and turned in on time? That would be another big clue.

Yes to your second line, no to your third.

[Jean in Newcastle]

All three of us just talked. She says they are "just clothes."

They are just clothes that aren’t hers.

[Miss Peregrine]

They are just clothes that aren’t hers.

Yes. She's in tears and still doesn't think its big deal. She shares hers because they are just clothes and she said she truly doesn't care. 

 

She denies that I ever told her not to wear them but does remember her sister saying it(but that's not enough?)

 

We've got some issues to work o for sure. She kept saying "Okay!" just to get me to stop. 

 

*sigh*

[Catwoman]

How did your 17yo react when you're 15yo basically acted like she was doing nothing wrong?

[Miss Peregrine]

How did your 17yo react when you're 15yo basically acted like she was doing nothing wrong?

Pretty incredulous. I affirmed dd17's right not to share if she didn't want to. She said she was still willing to consider requests for some items if dd15 asks. 

 

DD15 was very dismissive(embarrassed?) and just wanted it to be over.

 

Still thinking on consequences. 

Edited November 16, 2017 by Miss Peregrine

[Ausmumof3]

Hmm I don't think this is verging on criminal behaviour though. I think she's young and she needs more scaffolding with executive function skills. I wouldn't have done that well at 15 without reminders about getting my room tidy and laundry out.

 

I also totally understand the "it's just clothes" thing. I think that's where you have a conversation about how different people value different things. Just because you don't place a high value on a certain item doesn't mean someone else doesn't. So we have basic rules about respect and how belongings are handled so that no one steps on someone else's toes. I remember being pretty devestated when mum threw stuff out when I was a kid that had no perceived value to her. People hang on to all sorts of stuff that have no actual value. The fact is no one gets to decide how someone else should feel about their stuff and that's why we follow the polite etiquette rules of asking to borrow things, taking care of things, and replacing anything we break or damage even if it doesn't seem to have value to us.

 

I have one who has issues with this as well. He's done well for a while and then had a relapse recently and took some stuff of dh's (nothing high value just little making stuff from the shed). Now most of the time he is allowed to use stuff but I keep reminding him he has to ask because it's annoying if DH comes to make or do something and something that he needs isn't there. Same with my sewing box. Yes you can use my thread but you need to ask every time and no you can't leave it in a mess. Leave it how you found it.

 

It's just a part of learning how to be an adult it doesn't make her an evil person.

[Liz CA]

Didn't have any time when I first read this...but now I am wondering what do you think why your younger daughter does this? Is it really about clothes? Or is it about something else?

I agree that most people have an expectation that their personal clothing is not taken by someone in their house without explicit permission. So IMHO, your older dd had good reason to be upset, however, you cannot be expected to know who owns what. It is an issue that goes beyond locks and keys (even though this may have to be the first line of defense for your older dd).

[Catwoman]

Pretty incredulous. I affirmed dd17's right not to share if she didn't want to. She said she was still willing to consider requests for some items if dd15 asks.

 

DD15 was very dismissive(embarrassed?) and just wanted it to be over.

 

Still thinking on consequences.

Do you think you got through to her, or do you think she will go right back to taking her sister's clothes?

 

I'm thinking that rather than giving her a consequence right now, maybe you should make a rule that if she's going to borrow any of her older sister's things, you need to hear directly from dd17 that it's okay with her. Otherwise, if you see her wearing any of her sister's clothes, you're going to assume she took them without asking, and the punishment for that will be X, with X being whatever you think is appropriate.

 

I know that turns you into the enforcer, but unfortunately you're stuck in the middle of this because your dd17 can complain, but she doesn't have the authority to enforce any consequences, so your 15yo will probably continue with her poor behavior unless you are actively involved in stopping it.

 

Honestly, I think your dd17 may be making a mistake by saying your dd15 can still borrow some of her clothes, because it might be smarter to have a strict no-borrowing rule for at least a month or two to keep things simple and your dds' possessions completely separate, so your dd15 won't have the opportunity to make excuses like, "but she always lets me borrow that," if you catch her wearing her sister's clothes.

[Ausmumof3]

Do you think you got through to her, or do you think she will go right back to taking her sister's clothes?

 

I'm thinking that rather than giving her a consequence right now, maybe you should make a rule that if she's going to borrow any of her older sister's things, you need to hear directly from dd17 that it's okay with her. Otherwise, if you see her wearing any of her sister's clothes, you're going to assume she took them without asking, and the punishment for that will be X, with X being whatever you think is appropriate.

 

I know that turns you into the enforcer, but unfortunately you're stuck in the middle of this because your dd17 can complain, but she doesn't have the authority to enforce any consequences, so your 15yo will probably continue with her poor behavior unless you are actively involved in stopping it.

 

Honestly, I think your dd17 may be making a mistake by saying your dd15 can still borrow some of her clothes, because it might be smarter to have a strict no-borrowing rule for at least a month or two to keep things simple and your dds' possessions completely separate, so your dd15 won't have the opportunity to make excuses like, "but she always lets me borrow that," if you catch her wearing her sister's clothes.

Yes I kind of agree with this. I would stop the borrowing full stop for a little while then when dd is more responsible they can try again maybe.

 

I've done this with Lego before. After fights over who owned what I banned sharing and swapping for a while.

[gardenmom5]

do they share a room or separate?

 

my sister used to take my clothes- she is 5 1/2 years older than me, and she was taking my clothes. :svengo:    she even had the audacity to claim her boyfriend gave her "my" earrings when I caught her wearing them. :toetap05:

 

My mother gave me a keyed door lock.   my mom had a key, and I had a key.  it kept her out - so she couldn't steal my clothes.

[LMD]

Oooh, I am the big sister and we had some doozy fights! She used to steal my brand new clothes, that I bought with my own money, out of the washing machine!

I don't remember what stopped it, I kept a better eye on my stuff and then moved out at 17...

 

I would definitely speak to the 15 year old. I would make her change immediately if found in sister's clothes - even if she'll be late. I would also tell her that she is free to decide to not share her clothes if she feels that it is unfair.

 

I may get them to do their own laundry.