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My 8 year old is learning to play the piano with Hoffman Academy lessons.  Overall I am thrilled with the lessons, but some of the practice tasks are causing angst...namely the ones that ask DS to improvise in any way.

 

The other day one of the tasks was to improvise a song that reminded the student of a favorite animal or TV character.  DS, who has autism, was paralyzed with confusion and uncertainty; he literally could not bring himself to touch the keyboard because he didn't know what to play.  Today he was asked to improvise along with the practice track of the song he just mastered.  He kept asking how that was different than just playing along with it "properly".  I wasn't sure what to tell him, and I also had mixed feeling about whether pushing him to improvise was worth the stress and negative feelings it was causing him.

 

So, a question for those who have a musical background...how important is improvising for a beginner?  I assume that some of the tasks were included to lighten up the lessons and make them more fun, but is there also some important pedagogical reason to practice improvising?  Or is improvising like the creative writing of piano - valuable but not essential?

 

Wendy 

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I'm going to say not essential.

 

My kid plays violin.  It's treated a lot like how we teach writing: A lot of copywork, a lot of listening to good works, and learning steadily how to read notes, tempo, etc.  I can't see him being asked to improvise....at least not until he wants to create his own pieces, with the emphasis on him wanting to.

 

I'd skip the improv.  It's obviously not helping your son.

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I love your analogy! You are right, the creative writing of piano. Some kids thrive on the creative bits, but not mine.

 

Technically I don't have a musical background, but I do have three kids working dutifully (perhaps not joyfully) through piano lessons.

Edited by SusanC
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I can't see him being asked to improvise....at least not until he wants to create his own pieces, with the emphasis on him wanting to.

 

Some kids thrive on the creative bits, but not mine.

 

Okay, that is the conclusion I have been coming to as well.  I would certainly never discourage any of my kids from playing around at the piano and improvising their own songs if they wanted to, but I'm not going to push DS to improvise as part of his lessons.  I'm going to tell him that he can substitute just playing the song as it is written for the improv tasks.

 

Thanks

 

Wendy

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My 8 year old is learning to play the piano with Hoffman Academy lessons. Overall I am thrilled with the lessons, but some of the practice tasks are causing angst...namely the ones that ask DS to improvise in any way.

 

The other day one of the tasks was to improvise a song that reminded the student of a favorite animal or TV character. DS, who has autism, was paralyzed with confusion and uncertainty; he literally could not bring himself to touch the keyboard because he didn't know what to play. Today he was asked to improvise along with the practice track of the song he just mastered. He kept asking how that was different than just playing along with it "properly". I wasn't sure what to tell him, and I also had mixed feeling about whether pushing him to improvise was worth the stress and negative feelings it was causing him.

 

So, a question for those who have a musical background...how important is improvising for a beginner? I assume that some of the tasks were included to lighten up the lessons and make them more fun, but is there also some important pedagogical reason to practice improvising? Or is improvising like the creative writing of piano - valuable but not essential?

 

Wendy

I am not a huge expert in piano lessons, but I took them for years and 3 of my kids are taking them. Improvising is not something I have ever heard of for a beginner. That just sounds daunting and scary for a child who doesn't know what to do with a keyboard.
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My 15 year old's teacher is working on this with her. It definitely does not come natural to more literal thinkers. She has the same freeze up on art projects: what next? She likes a good paint by numbers, lol. No improvising. She can have those freeze up anxious moments. But we keep working at it. I don't think she could have done some of the things she does now at 8. She may never be a great improviser. But she loves piano, so now is motivated to try her best for the teacher, even if the concept is foreign to her.  

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DD has been taking piano for 3 years and they do a lot of improvising but she does it in conjunction with her piano teacher - teacher will play a rhythm/selection of notes and give DD instructions like: you can only play on the black notes, or you can only play in this particular area.  It works well for her but then again she is very much a creative person who hates to abide by the rules in any endeavour.

 

That being said, I never improvised in the 10+ years I took piano and I'm pretty sure I would have dislike it intensely had I done so.  

 

I would say that if it's not working and causing stress, just skip it.  Not worth making him lose his interest in the piano for that.

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I agree that improvising is like the creative writing of piano. Some people love it, some people can't do it. For me, that was the fun part of playing that had nothing to do with my lessons, as my teacher never required it. So, no, I don't think it's essential and shouldn't be required, especially for the child you are describing.

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To improvise well, you need an ingrained knowledge of scales and intervals. It may be a way to play with the familiar notes he's already comfortable with in a particular song? I wouldn't worry about skipping it, if he wants to try though, maybe a bit more concrete instructions like 'rearrange the pattern of notes in these 3 bars'

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Improvising is not a big part of the piano instruction for my 7 and 9 yos and it wasn't for me at that age. I hated it when it did come up. I had one teacher who asked for a lot of improv and it was a confusing year and I didn't learn much. I definitely do not think it is essential. My 9yo does some on her own because that's who she is, but for my 7yo, it would be overwhelming. I agree with the copywork analogy... beginner pianists don't have the tools for a lot of improv.

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To improvise well, you need an ingrained knowledge of scales and intervals. It may be a way to play with the familiar notes he's already comfortable with in a particular song? I wouldn't worry about skipping it, if he wants to try though, maybe a bit more concrete instructions like 'rearrange the pattern of notes in these 3 bars'

 

My kids play violin and cello and one improvises (by choice) and the other never does. I agree that improvising (much like creative writing imho) is something that works well when you have a solid foundation from which to work. My cello kid is a little spectrum-y and still does a lot of improvising but he is also a theory nut and has completed Suzuki Book 1. I'd still consider him a beginner but he has a thorough understanding of the wheelhouse he is working in and is comfortable with taking risks. My oldest hates to improvise even though she listens to a lot of bluegrass and has a teacher who favors fiddle. She will occasionally do it in her lessons WITH her teacher.

 

Incidentally, my husband and his younger brother both play piano very well. DH never improvises and little brother does all the time.

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Agreeing with the others, improv is the creative writing of music. Some thrive on it and find it fun, others are intimidated by it but it is by no means necessary to enjoy playing an instrument of any kind.

 

I could see a musically inclined student finding improv portions of the lessons fun and something a little different to keep things fresh and interesting. But I could also see even the most enthusiastic student freezing up and losing interest in playing at all when asked to just "go where the music takes you" when they have very little musical background to draw from to begin with. 

 

It is certainly not something I would ask a student to do during a lesson, especially beginner lessons, but I wouldn't discourage a student who wanted to improv while practicing a piece they has already mastered playing "properly" as your son put it, lol. I love his take improv btw, it made this former music tutor smile.  :laugh:

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Well, years of improv came in handy for my son when he was accompanying a choir and the page-turner was not paying attention. So he nodded for her to turn the page...then again...then one more time...then he just kept going with things that fit, and the audience didn't even know anything went wrong (though of course the choir director was aware, and eventually the page turner realized it!)

 

But I wouldn't expect that situation to come up too often:)

 

I think for some people it is relaxing and freeing, but for others it is intimidating.  I also think it's harder to improv for a teacher. My son just messed around on the piano to wind down when he wasn't practicing for his lessons.  If he'd been required to do it, it wouldn't have been winding down or relaxing anymore!

 

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Improvising is useful and (for most kids) fun, but it is by no means essential for all piano learners. So if he has no interest, don't try to make him do it. But if he would like to improvise but just can't figure out how, you could make it easier for him by structuring it. Eg "play this but choose a different tempo" (or make a funny last note, or whatever is a small enough difference he can handle). Or if he's a visual thinker, use imagery "That sounds like a fairy tiptoing, can you play it like an elephant this time?". Just to get him used to the idea of variation. Later, once he has basic technique happening, show him how to do a 12 bar jazz/blues sequence and just put a few long notes over it, so he has an improv formula he can build on.

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I agree that improvising is like the creative writing of piano. Some people love it, some people can't do it. For me, that was the fun part of playing that had nothing to do with my lessons, as my teacher never required it. So, no, I don't think it's essential and shouldn't be required, especially for the child you are describing.

I was classically trained in piano for 15 years. I’ve played the piano for 30 years. I cannot improvise. I spent a lot of time trying and agonizing over it (especially when I played in a jazz band). But, my brain just doesn’t work that way......I am pretty good with creative writing though....go figure.

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We're doing Hoffman and funnily enough my asd girl is the only one of mine that enjoys improvising. But she also really enjoys the sort of writing projects that tell you to take a story's idea and change it to your own. She literally writes hundreds of stories "inspired" by her favorite books and shows, with maybe a different animal or location (a la the progymnasmata). She also seems to really be absorbing the theory and likes to transpose things and add chords all the time.

 

My other daughters and myself have a lot of difficulty straying from what's written. I'd say skip it for now. There's always time later if decide it's important.

Edited by Meagan S
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Not necessary. If you have a kid who can improvise within a structure at some point, I recommend a good basis in theory to give them the ability to do it. 

 

My DH improvises, but he can also play a lot of things by ear and is very creative. Actually, it's more like he composes than improvises, but he doesn't write stuff down, nor does he necessarily even remember what he played after he played it. As a child, he played accordion by ear for several years before his teacher or his parents caught on that he couldn't read music. He reads music now, but it doesn't match his skill level at the accordion, lol! He can play for hours, and most of it, he's not looking at music. He learned trombone, but he doesn't play it very often. I haven't thought to ask if he composed on the trombone, but he had no problems playing in a jazz band. He is taking piano lessons currently, and he specifically wanted to learn formal music and theory better. He played the piano for several months before he started free-playing on it. 

 

Theory has helped my kids with their piano a great deal--the teacher gives them bits of it as she goes without a specific curriculum. 

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