Hollywood and men in politics.

[LMD]

I am NOT blaming the victims, but rather their peers who put the victims at risk by willingly trading sexual favors for roles so often that Weinstein and the like thought that *ALL* actresses would be willing to do the same.

 

Are you suggesting that Weinstein wouldn't have had the idea to assault women if some women hadn't given him the idea that all women want to give sexual favours? Surely it would have only taken one woman trying to decline for him to realise that's not true?

 

Yes, some women use the culture they find themselves oppressed in to their advantage. If they don't, they're forced to give the 'sexual favours' anyway (raped/assaulted) and/or blacklisted. Win win - but not for the women!

[Crimson Wife]

Are you suggesting that Weinstein wouldn't have had the idea to assault women if some women hadn't given him the idea that all women want to give sexual favours? Surely it would have only taken one woman trying to decline for him to realise that's not true?

 

I'm saying that if 100% of the actresses had turned him down when he first started, he probably would've stopped trying. But if he gets what he's after 90+% of the time, that's just going to reinforce his belief that he just needs to be more persistent with the minority who refuse (Kate Beckinsale said that he tried it with her multiple times).

[LMD]

I'm saying that if 100% of the actresses had turned him down when he first started, he probably would've stopped trying. But if he gets what he's after 90+% of the time, that's just going to reinforce his belief that he just needs to be more persistent with the minority who refuse (Kate Beckinsale said that he tried it with her multiple times).

It's not women's job or in their power to teach a very powerful man that rape and assault is bad.

 

I also disagree that he probably would have stopped trying. He probably would have used his power to get what he wanted. Oh wait, that's exactly what he did...

[Hyacinth]

Have you seen the article about Tom Hanks?

 

https://bluerockpublicradio.com/another-actress-steps-forward-accusing-tom-hanks-of-being-nice-f4eec3485206

 

From the article:

In the latest of a series of recent allegations about the Academy Award-winning actor, actress Veronica Warren revealed Thursday that Tom Hanks was extremely kind to her on the set of the 2006 film The Da Vinci Code.

 

“He gave me half of his sandwich when he saw our food supply was running low,†said Warren, who was only 17 at the time. “And it wasn’t just one instance. The entire time I was on set he repeatedly exposed himself to me as a thoroughly decent human being.â€

[Lady Florida.]

Have you seen the article about Tom Hanks?

 

https://bluerockpublicradio.com/another-actress-steps-forward-accusing-tom-hanks-of-being-nice-f4eec3485206

 

From the article:

In the latest of a series of recent allegations about the Academy Award-winning actor, actress Veronica Warren revealed Thursday that Tom Hanks was extremely kind to her on the set of the 2006 film The Da Vinci Code.

 

“He gave me half of his sandwich when he saw our food supply was running low,†said Warren, who was only 17 at the time. “And it wasn’t just one instance. The entire time I was on set he repeatedly exposed himself to me as a thoroughly decent human being.â€

 

As the question keeps getting asked, "Aren't there any men in Hollywood who are decent?" I keep thinking of Tom Hanks. I'd be so disappointed to find out he's done something inappropriate. 

[8circles]

Let's not pretend that men and women are now, or have ever been, on equal footing.

 

The men have the power. The women do not. The fact that some women have chosen to follow the rules laid out by men in order to survive does not make them responsible for the rules.

[Carrie12345]

As the question keeps getting asked, "Aren't there any men in Hollywood who are decent?" I keep thinking of Tom Hanks. I'd be so disappointed to find out he's done something inappropriate. 

 

I've been thinking of him, too. I'm not one to get gaga over celebrities, not even Tom Hanks, but he's clearly been considered one of the greatest guys in the industry and in general for just about forever.  If he turned out to be a schmuck, it may very well send me into a pit of despair. 

 

Fortunately, I'm pretty confident that he's the real deal.

[Lanny]

The paragraph below is quoted from an email newsletter I received on 10 November 2017, the: Fox News Halftime Report".

 

Taxpayer dollars let Congress settle sexual harassment cases in secret - Fox News:“A little-known law has been on the books for more than a decade that gives anyone accusing a federal lawmaker of sexual harassment the right to sue – but only if they consent to a lengthy drawn-out process that includes a written statement within 180 days of the incident, 30 days of counseling and another month or so of mediation. … The money comes from a special U.S. Treasury fund – and the payouts are kept quiet. That means, those found to be at fault are publicly shielded and don’t have to pay a penny out of pocket for settlement costs.â€

 

It seems those on Capitol Hill have their own SLUSH FUND. And their own rules for secrecy if they are accused...

 

And it isn't only on Capitol Hill in DC. There's a guy in Sacramento running, or wanting to run, for U.S. Senate, from CA, who is getting a lot of adverse publicity for what he did.

[ktgrok]

I started to count how many posts were about women's behavior (either condemning it or defending it) and it was about 50/50 before I gave up. 

 

A post that started out about men's bad behavior ends up about women's behavior, EVERY TIME. Some of those were defending women, but I feel we are almost taking the bait when we do that as we are accepting the change in direction from the original conversation. 

[Bluegoat]

Thanks for your reply Bluegoat. I disagree 😉

The cultural context of the gender hierarchy means that women as a class have been socialised to understand that our only power in this society is sexual - be pretty, play the wh*re/madonna perfectly etc.

Using sexuality is something that is required from females, remember the big brouhaha when Mo'nique didn't shave her legs for the Oscars? Can you think of ONE relatively powerful woman who doesn't wear make up or heels? Why is that?

 

And I believe that men like Weinstein are smart enough to realise that just because some girls say yes it is not an excuse for raping, assaulting, stalking, harassing and blacklisting the ones who say no. It's not that confusing.

 

Using your bribe example - if a CEO says to a brand new, teenage employee, that they must work 20+ hours a week of unpaid overtime if they want to get a promotion one day. Who has the power? Who's taking advantage of whom? The employee could be pleased with an option to advance themself, they come from a culture that defers to authority figures and was going to work a little extra to be noticed anyway - does that mean the CEO wasn't using his position to unethically coerce? Was the employee's decision freely made?

What if there had previously been another employee who worked equally hard and was equally qualified, this employee had worked at this company longer but refused the CEO's offer and is subsequently fired, the CEO calls around other CEOs in his network to stop them getting hired anywhere and hires private detectives to make sure they stay quiet. This story gets around, but it's all just hushed talk. Having heard this story, how free was our first employee's choice?

 

It's about naming the problem - the employee isn't the problem because the massive power imbalance means that their 'choice' to go along is heavily coerced. It's a gorilla vs a butterfly - not a fair fight.

 

I don't think any of this is untrue, and those are examples of the exploitative element.  Weinstein in particular was the worst kind of predator, whether or not he really "knew' better - he strikes me as a sociopath, so in a way that kind of judgement might not really make sense in his case.

 

But I don't think sexual power is something that just belongs to men - or maybe I'd say, I don't think women's sexual power is something that only gets used because it is their only option, or even that they are socialized that way.  Women aren't fundamentally less willing than men to use any means of power, including exploitatively.  (And to be clear, I think most people of both sexes are basically not wanting to exploit others.)  

 

You don't need a huge number of people that go into these exchanges willingly for that to change the playing field for everyone.  It changes the expectation, it means that to compete everyone else needs to conform, it means that a certain sort of person will be successful.  And once it is embedded in that culture, you suddenly have an industry that really is hostile to anyone who is in a less powerful position.  This isn't a matter of pitting men against women. Anyone who feels that they personally are happy to trade on sex needs to realize that it is not just about them personally.  It actually isn't empowering anyone, whatever Madonna told us.

 

But what I think is more important, and needs to be considered, is that the forces at work are similar, the same, in other parts of the industry.  And culturally, I don't think we are clear about that - people often support them in other contexts while being critical of this one.  The problem there is not so much hypocrisy, but that you are actively working against yourself.  

 

For example - depictions of sexuality and nudity in film.  This is defended all the time as being artistic, natural, and criticism is seen as prudish.  And yet, in the past few years we've seen that for young actresses, really rather intimate nudity is difficult to avoid.  I've heard older actresses say they could not make it today, and some shows (GoT, I mean you) regularly hire porn stars. Very rarely is this really "artistic".  It's about a use of sexuality for money in about 90% of cases.

 

It's not that hard to find examples of films, not porn, where there is real sex, real erections, etc.  That too is supposed to be artistic.

 

A lot of actresses I've heard talk about this say, essentially, if it's a good role, it's worth it, since nudity is NBD anyway.  

 

So, as an actress, I wonder, what is the difference between that, and what the guy who controls the casting might ask of you?  A little nudity, a little pretending.  How does it affect who goes into the industry?

 

There are also a lot of contradictions in the way we talk about how people choose partners, in part because it' seen as empowering for women.  There can be some significant blowback to suggesting women need to think about the larger implications of their sexual choices.  This issue to me is an example of that, but we also see it when we discuss sexualized clothing, or porn, as well as others.

 

I think these things won't change unless everyone starts to see the larger cultural issues as important.  Not just saying, men, change your thoughts and behaviour.  The people who are really willing to be exploitative about sexuality will probably always exist, but we can change the culture so they don't thrive and can't hide.  That means being thoughtful about how other elements are promoting certain ways of thinking, making it easier for certain people to succeed.  Realizing that maybe,  our individual choices might need to be curtailed because they have a larger social impact, and we may even have to say that publicly.

[Lanny]

Senator Al Franken in a disgusting photo...

 

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/11/16/al-franken-accused-kissing-groping-la-tv-host-without-consent.html

 

I had read, a day or 2 ago, that there are at least 2 people in the Congress in Washington DC, one Democrat and one Republican, who have accusations against them.

 

Possibly Senator Franken is one of them?

 

They have a Secret Slush Fund to protect members of the U.S. Congress from these accusations...

 

These men had mothers? Sisters, Wives?

Edited November 16, 2017 by Lanny

[Lanny]

After my previous post, now this story. Franken is truly disgusting.  

 

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/11/16/al-franken-joked-about-raping-leslie-stahl-in-1995-new-york-magazine-article.html

 

He "joked" about raping Lesley Stahl ?

 

Not funny...

[Butter]

Lanny, have you read his full apology?

[ktgrok]

I want to tear my hair out at the idea that the problem is a lack of training in the workplace. These pigs don't know already that this crap is wrong??? They are GROWN ADULTS!!!

 

I am  so right with Claire from HR right now. 

 

 

[Audrey]

I am NOT blaming the victims, but rather their peers who put the victims at risk by willingly trading sexual favors for roles so often that Weinstein and the like thought that *ALL* actresses would be willing to do the same.

 

 

Instead of saying "willingly trading sexual favours," perhaps try framing from the perspective of a woman who is overwhelmed, intimidated, coerced, bribed, cornered and trapped into submitting to a power player.  Submitting to that is not an act of "willingness."  It's about mitigating the potential damage that could be done to you. 

 

And ultimately, none of this is about sex. It's about one person exerting their extraordinary power over another vulnerable person. 

[Sandwalker]

I am NOT blaming the victims, but rather their peers who put the victims at risk by willingly trading sexual favors for roles so often that Weinstein and the like thought that *ALL* actresses would be willing to do the same.

 

What about the child actors who were abused? Is it their fault that they didn't say anything at the time?

[Audrey]

Didn't take long for a thread about men abusing women to turn into a thread about how women should change their behavior. Only a few posts in. Impressive. 

 

Not surprised, I'm sure.  

 

It is infuriating, though, that all of the onus for abuse is on us, not our abusers.  They're just boys being boys, or men who were led to lust, or they were all loose women anyway, so it doesn't count, or... whatever other patriarchal bullshit line they want to throw out there.  

 

Let's talk about how men should be changing their behaviour.  And, I'm not just talking about the ones who are abusing and assaulting others.  I sincerely want to know what silences the decent men out there, that they don't speak up. 

[gardenmom5]

Instead of saying "willingly trading sexual favours," perhaps try framing from the perspective of a woman who is overwhelmed, intimidated, coerced, bribed, cornered and trapped into submitting to a power player.  Submitting to that is not an act of "willingness."  It's about mitigating the potential damage that could be done to you. 

 

And ultimately, none of this is about sex. It's about one person exerting their extraordinary power over another vulnerable person. 

 

if it was - (for those who don't understand) - they get off on the control.   if  just wanted s3x - there are many high priced call girls out there.   not interesting enough to the likes of sleezebag weintstein.

 

 

eta: more than ten years ago - courtner love was tellling young actresses to stay away from/never be alone with HW - SHE - was attacked and ostracized for going against the status quo

 

 

Edited November 16, 2017 by gardenmom5

[gardenmom5]

I know this is OT, but there are women who become enablers.  I was watching a doc on netflix (one of us) of a woman who kicked her husband out. (he was beating her, and my understanding starting on the children.)  everyone turned against her.  including female relatives and neighbors.

[LMD]

I want to tear my hair out at the idea that the problem is a lack of training in the workplace. These pigs don't know already that this crap is wrong??? They are GROWN ADULTS!!!

 

I am so right with Claire from HR right now.

 

https://youtu.be/BZqdeeKVoBc

Claiming cluelessness is a ploy, so we feel like it's our fault. If only we could explain properly! If only we begged and pleaded and made it relevant and logical and weren't so hysterical, then they would understand and stop assaulting women and children and sometimes other men. As if we haven't done all of that ad nauseum.

 

You're right, they're grown ass adults. They know it's wrong, they just think they can get away with it. And they're largely right.

[Sandwalker]

[photo of man groping someone deleted]

 

 

[gardenmom5]

Claiming cluelessness is a ploy, so we feel like it's our fault. If only we could explain properly! If only we begged and pleaded and made it relevant and logical and weren't so hysterical, then they would understand and stop assaulting women and children and sometimes other men. As if we haven't done all of that ad nauseum.

 

You're right, they're grown ass adults. They know it's wrong, they just think they can get away with it. And they're largely right.

 

I had to explain to my dh why some women didn't want to come and meet him at our house for business (that we get the messages of "don't be alone" etc.). he really was clueless.  because it wouldn't never occur to him to be inappropriate (and he's quite outspoken against men who are) - it never occurred to him some women would think he might not be 'safe'.

I was usually home, so usually not a big deal.

 

I've been harassed.  they SO KNOW they're creeps.   they think it's funny to make you uncomfortable.  it feeds their egos. in my lexicon - degrading another to feed your ego - is evil.

[mathnerd]

I read a great article about how people like Al Franken insist that "humor" adds some sort of valuable context to sexual assault once they know that they have been caught with evidence that they cannot refute.

 

Link to the article on The Atlantic: 

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2017/11/it-was-clearly-intended-to-be-funny/546116/

 

removing picture because it is too creepy and made someone here nauseous ...

 

Edited November 16, 2017 by mathnerd

[unsinkable]

Can ppl stop posting the photo please ? it's making me feel nauseous, plus I'm not sure of the ethics of reposting it.

 

(Yes, I'd ask the same thing if it showed a Republican).

Yes, stop posting it.

 

It's disturbing and it makes me sick and angry for any helpless person who was taken advantage of, while they slept or were drugged or were too young or old or disabled to protect themselves.

[Lanny]

Lanny, have you read his full apology?

 

Yes. I just found it and I read it.

[DesertBlossom]

I don't think this is just a Hollywood problem or a political culture problem. It's a societal problem. In our last presidential election American voters narrowed down the possible candidates to a woman who worked to silence her husband's accusers and a man who boasted about grabbing women by the p****. And yet, somehow, American voters were willing to overlook their behavior because they agreed with their politics.

 

I think it's fantastic that all of these abusers are finally having the light shined on them. They deserve it. But we're also pretty darn hypocritical too in who we are willing to shame for their actions. People were willing to boycott all things Bill Cosby and yet cling to their Michael Jackson albums. I remember as a teenager a classmate told me that Bill Clinton's behavior "didn't affect his ability to be president." 

 

I guess I'm mostly curious as to what has suddenly changed. All of this was supposedly an "open secret." In fact, there was a movie that was made a couple years ago by that same name but it didn't get distributed hardly at all. Why is suddenly everyone outraged about this when it's been going on for so long and apparently pretty out in the open? It was years ago that I first heard that Corey Feldman was abused. But why are people only listening now?

 

 

Edited November 16, 2017 by DesertBlossom

[Guest]

People have s*x for all sorts of reasons, and just because it isn't for pleasure or love, does NOT mean it's being forced upon the person. Having s*x for personal gain =/= assault.

 

Totally agree.

[Sandwalker]

I'm sorry that I posted the photo, it was in very poor taste.

 

And I agree that it sure isn't just happening in Hollywood and Washington.

[gardenmom5]

 

 

I guess I'm mostly curious as to what has suddenly changed. All of this was supposedly an "open secret." In fact, there was a movie that was made a couple years ago by that same name but it didn't get distributed hardly at all. Why is suddenly everyone outraged about this when it's been going on for so long and apparently pretty out in the open? It was years ago that I first heard that Corey Feldman was abused. But why are people only listening now?

 

yeah . . . why now?  and why is so much coming out?  It's like an avalanche.   yes, they need to be exposed an held accountable - but what popped the balloon?

 

it's been going on in schools for a long time.   at least the teachers sleeping with students, to the point it was a bad cliche - but so was "the casting couch".

[Miss Peregrine]

Now there's a video of Franken at a Rob Reiner roast. Disgusting.

[Hyacinth]

Why now? I give a lot of credit to Gretchen Carlson. I think her story opened the floodgates.

[Lanny]

yeah . . . why now?  and why is so much coming out?  It's like an avalanche.   yes, they need to be exposed an held accountable - but what popped the balloon?

 

it's been going on in schools for a long time.   at least the teachers sleeping with students, to the point it was a bad cliche - but so was "the casting couch".

 

I am amazed, recently, at the number of female school teachers who are going to jail for sleeping with male students.  When did that become a thing that is apparently common now? It's in the news frequently...

[Butter]

I am amazed, recently, at the number of female school teachers who are going to jail for sleeping with male students.  When did that become a thing that is apparently common now? It's in the news frequently...

 

It's not recent.  It's been pretty steady for many years, at least since Mary Kay Letourneau was in the news in the 90s.  Many cases are just local news.  When I was a teenager (pre MKL being in the news) I had a friend who was sleeping with her English teacher (female student/male teacher).  Everyone knew.  It was an open secret among the teenagers.  We didn't really care (now that I have kids that age I look back and am like what the crap?!?!).  Everyone loved that teacher.  When Dawson's Creek started and had the Pacey/Ms. Jacobs storyline, it didn't even seem weird to me because of my friend's experience.

 

The president of France is married to a teacher he had when he was 15, though they did not become a couple until he was 18.  Since he is just a few months older than I am, I'm going to go with this sort of thing having been common for a long time.

[gardenmom5]

I am amazed, recently, at the number of female school teachers who are going to jail for sleeping with male students.  When did that become a thing that is apparently common now? It's in the news frequently...

 

 

Mary Kay Letourneau is local to me.   when holllywood made a  "romantic" movie about that case - of a female teaching have not one, but TWO babies by her 12! year old student, whom she had also taught in 2nd grade.  (7-8 years old.)   when she *also* HAD a son the *same* age . . . . I knew it was just going to keep happening.   the message was sent it was "romantic".  she screwed up his life.  he's been in rehab, drugs, booze, . . . dysfunctional.

what angers me most, are the number of men who dont' think it's a big deal.  that kids life was screwed up.

her ex-husband took their FOUR children and left the state.

[hornblower]

What changed is women. I think perhaps we have finally a critical mass of women who are mad and angry again.  I think it's the backlash to Susan Faludi's Backlash. 

Those of us who are reaching middle age, who have enough power and status to speak, we can provide a safe space for others to speak out. Many of us put up a with a lot of shit and we're fierce about having the woman coming up behind us not having to to shovel as much of it.  We want things to be better for younger women. The young women are passionate and determined to see real change. Put together, you get a powerful force.

[lauraw4321]

Just scanning my news sites. So, at this point, we should just assume all men in Hollywood and/or politics are guilty of some sort of lecherous behavior, right?? Ugh. Why are they so damn gross??

This is my operating assumption based on my life experiences and the news. There have been no consequences to men for years for this behavior. All it takes is a little power, and men in politics and media have a LOT of power.

[lauraw4321]

I had to explain to my dh why some women didn't want to come and meet him at our house for business (that we get the messages of "don't be alone" etc.). he really was clueless. because it wouldn't never occur to him to be inappropriate (and he's quite outspoken against men who are) - it never occurred to him some women would think he might not be 'safe'.

I was usually home, so usually not a big deal.

 

I've been harassed. they SO KNOW they're creeps. they think it's funny to make you uncomfortable. it feeds their egos. in my lexicon - degrading another to feed your ego - is evil.

YUP.

[Bluegoat]

I want to tear my hair out at the idea that the problem is a lack of training in the workplace. These pigs don't know already that this crap is wrong??? They are GROWN ADULTS!!!

 

I am  so right with Claire from HR right now. 

 

 

I've done harassment training a lot of times.  It does include lots of things that are valuable.  Of course there are people who are predatory or just don't care, but there is a lot of other stuff that goes on which isn't like that.  Ad then there are questions around how to keep a workplace environment that is good for everyone, or how to resolve issues before they become significant.

[ktgrok]

I've done harassment training a lot of times.  It does include lots of things that are valuable.  Of course there are people who are predatory or just don't care, but there is a lot of other stuff that goes on which isn't like that.  Ad then there are questions around how to keep a workplace environment that is good for everyone, or how to resolve issues before they become significant.

 

Yes, but the reason guys masturbate in front of others isn't that no one told them not to take their penis out at work. It's that they can get away with it. they know it is wrong, they just don't care. 

 

I mean, if we have adult men that don't know this stuff, we have a problem. 

[Bluegoat]

Yes, but the reason guys masturbate in front of others isn't that no one told them not to take their penis out at work. It's that they can get away with it. they know it is wrong, they just don't care. 

 

I mean, if we have adult men that don't know this stuff, we have a problem. 

 

Hmm.  Well, I don't know.

 

I know a fair few people who have had sexual encounters at work, or initiated sexual encounters at work.  I know more who have had sexual encounters with people they work with, not at work.

 

Some of these people are now married.

 

It seems to me that quite a few people do not think that sex at work, or in any kind of work context, is never ok.

 

I suspect that for every one of these encounters that goes well, there is one where someone makes a move where it is not really appreciated/wanted.

 

We can decide to really come down hard on it, I guess.  Make it a much stronger social taboo, a firing offence.  At least the part about not actually doing it in the workplace.  I suspect there would be less luck with banning it at work social events or with colleagues in general - I think that would cross some lines people would push back against - there are a lot of people who mostly meet people at work and would not want them all romantically off-limits.  I wonder how all the people who do have sexual relationships with people they work with, would react to being told they could not.

 

Certainly most employers would tend to say, no sex that is actually at work.  I don't know how seriously they all take it - unless people get caught they may not always really care.  

 

ETA - anyway, not having sex at work was certainly part of the training we received.  IN fact I'd say it included a number of  of things many people were not happy about.

Edited November 17, 2017 by Bluegoat

[maize]

I get it.

For me personally, my operating assumption is that anyone in power is corrupt, whether that’s sexually, financially, etc. I admit maybe this isn’t the best view to have, but based on what I’ve seen, power corrupts pretty much every time, all the way from power in a small little town to power on a big stage, like politics. It’s why I have a prejudice against people with lots of money. I guess I’m classist. I hate saying that ‘out loud’. I need to really work on that. ☹ï¸

 

Sorry for the rabbit trail...

I don't think there's much real dirt to dig up on either Barack Obama or Mitt Romney (to offer examples from both sides of the aisle)

 

Stuff to disagree with? Sure.

 

Some complicated political maneuvering and calculated deals? Sure. but as best I can tell both of those are pretty decent honorable humans.

 

I'm sure there are others out there as well.

[DesertBlossom]

I get it.

For me personally, my operating assumption is that anyone in power is corrupt, whether that’s sexually, financially, etc. I admit maybe this isn’t the best view to have, but based on what I’ve seen, power corrupts pretty much every time, all the way from power in a small little town to power on a big stage, like politics. It’s why I have a prejudice against people with lots of money. I guess I’m classist. I hate saying that ‘out loud’. I need to really work on that. ☹ï¸

 

Sorry for the rabbit trail...

 

I largely agree with this.

 

But I also don't think it's limited to people in a position of power. Or even mostly or usually people in power. I think it can happen anywhere and everywhere. 

[Junie]

Why now? I give a lot of credit to Gretchen Carlson. I think her story opened the floodgates.

 

Yes, but I actually think that the fall of Bill Cosby has a lot to do with it.  Once the women who accused Bill Cosby were believed, I think other women (and men) realized that people would listen to them, too.

[ktgrok]

couldn't get it to quote, but really? We don't think grown men and women don't know that masturbating in front of others (not romantic partners, by the way) is not okay in a work environment??? I refuse to believe that. 

 

As the video says, the place for your penis at work is IN YOUR PANTS>

[Sneezyone]

couldn't get it to quote, but really? We don't think grown men and women don't know that masturbating in front of others (not romantic partners, by the way) is not okay in a work environment??? I refuse to believe that.

 

As the video says, the place for your penis at work is IN YOUR PANTS>

There is also a significant difference between consensual relationships among coworkers at essentially the same level and those that involve a power imbalance that might also disadvantage others in the workplace. Edited November 17, 2017 by Sneezyone

[LMD]

couldn't get it to quote, but really? We don't think grown men and women don't know that masturbating in front of others (not romantic partners, by the way) is not okay in a work environment??? I refuse to believe that.

 

As the video says, the place for your penis at work is IN YOUR PANTS>

Of course they know. We have to stop believing that they're so confused. It's a deliberate gaslighting so we aren't sure in our boundaries.

 

This is one reason I get so annoyed about the 'what's really consent/assault?' conversations. They want us to tie ourselves up in knots drawing the exact lines for every hypothetical situation because the poor wee lambs are so confused. No. It's not that confusing, they just don't want to control their impulses.

 

If they saw women and children (or anyone less powerful) as actual whole persons in their own right - rather than just a vehicle for getting off - then they wouldn't need to ask where the line is.

[mathnerd]

Yes, but I actually think that the fall of Bill Cosby has a lot to do with it.  Once the women who accused Bill Cosby were believed, I think other women (and men) realized that people would listen to them, too.

Yes. I believe that the stories of the accusers of Cosby and Roger Ailes were the original events to start this purge in hollywood. In both those stories, the accusers were believed and there was widespread support in the social media for them. From there onwards, the social media took a life of its own in bringing accusers a platform where they would be heard and believed.

 

Some fearless journalists like Jodi Kantor and Ronan Farrow took on this crusade when big media companies chickened out. So, I think that we are in an age where people are leveraging social media as a tool to expose injustice. journalists who are very savvy are learning to use social media to gather information and do propagate their stories.

[shawthorne44]

Bill Cosby was quite a shock.   He always 'seemed' so wholesome.   I can see how that would have given other victims courage.   

 

Although, I thought that Slick Willie had showed us that sort of behavior was acceptable in politicians.   I guess it is only democrats that get a pass.   

[hornblower]

Of course they know. We have to stop believing that they're so confused. It's a deliberate gaslighting so we aren't sure in our boundaries.

 

This is one reason I get so annoyed about the 'what's really consent/assault?' conversations. They want us to tie ourselves up in knots drawing the exact lines for every hypothetical situation because the poor wee lambs are so confused. No. It's not that confusing, they just don't want to control their impulses.

 

If they saw women and children (or anyone less powerful) as actual whole persons in their own right - rather than just a vehicle for getting off - then they wouldn't need to ask where the line is.

 

Have you seen the recent article The Myth of the Male Bumbler ? 

 

http://theweek.com/articles/737056/myth-male-bumbler

 

"Male bumblers are an epidemic.

These men are, should you not recognize the type, wide-eyed and perennially confused. What's the difference, the male bumbler wonders, between a friendly conversation with a coworker and rubbing one's penis in front of one? Between grooming a 14-year-old at her custody hearing and asking her out?

The world baffles the bumbler. He's astonished to discover that he had power over anyone at all, let alone that he was perceived as using it. What power? he says. Who, me?"

[Rosie_0801]

Oh my. That's too much like reality. Such an amiable fellow couldn't do anything wrong!