Re: Teaching young children mythology

[RosieGamgee]

Hello,

 

I'm planning to use the Story of the World with my children, ages 9 7 and 5, and a 2yo around too.  I have previewed the books and I really like them.  We are planning to start with book one soon.  My only concern is regarding the teaching of mythology to young children.  I'm just not sure I'm comfortable teaching the names of specific Egyptian, Babylonian, and Greek gods and goddesses to my young children, telling them stories from those mythologies, and giving detailed descriptions of rituals.  I feel my 9yo is mature enough to understand that these are things people believed and would be able to engage with me in a discussion of how that is not what we believe, etc.  but I am not so sure about my 7yo and 5yo.  Unfortunately, there is NO WAY I can read the books aloud to my 9yo and not have the younger ones listening in so I find myself in a bit of a quandary.  I'm not sure how to explain about the other things these ancient cultures did without also explaining about their religious beliefs but I'm reluctant to go into detail with my younger children.

I'm sure I'm not the only one ever to have had this dilemma.  Any ideas, suggestions, advice, thoughts?  Rationale in favor of teaching mythology to younger elementary age children?  Rationale against doing so?  Recommendations re: supplementary books?  Ways that you found helpful to discuss these questions with your children?

[regentrude]

None of my kids ever had trouble distinguishing between reality and fiction. I fail to see how reading mythology is harmful. If kids can figure out that Grimm's fairy tales are make-believe, they can understand that mythological figures are as fictional as the witch in Hansel and Gretel. They are stories, important stories that are the underpinnings of much of Western culture - but still, just stories.

Edited November 3, 2017 by regentrude

[Kiara.I]

I don't recall detailed descriptions of rituals in SOTW.

 

We really didn't find it to be an issue. Mostly the kids listened, they didn't ask a lot of questions about precise belief systems.

 

You can feel free to toss in a little segment on "not everybody believes the way we do, and these people believed this way at this time."

 

I think if your children read any fiction at all it won't be a problem.

 

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[Starr]

It was never a problem at our house. Read and enjoy.

[Vernal]

There was a discussion about this on the Mere Motherhood Facebook group a day or so ago. It was an interesting discussion. You might find some answers there.

 

FWiW my kids never had a problem distinguishing myth from truth.

[fralala]

Another way of asking this question might be: Hey, did any of your children begin saying their prayers to Osiris, and sacrificing goats to Zeus? ;)

 

No, I think explicitly teaching your children what other people believe at this age actually is more likely to be met with their desire to affirm their parents' beliefs or express their perceived superior knowledge about the universe, and one of my bigger concerns was that at this age my kids were eager to label certain beliefs as stupid or dumb through their modern lens. My kids had to be taught explicitly to be respectful of the beliefs of others, but not that there aren't really gods living on Mt. Olympus and randomly interfering, often cruelly, in the lives of mortals.

[Tanaqui]

If just teaching kids that other religions existed was enough to get them to up and convert, the history of the world would be very, very different.

[Bluegoat]

I would not worry about this.  

 

Really, what is a worst case scenario with this?  The kids decide to play they are ancient Egyptians?  

 

From a Christian POV, this is not an issue - those gods aren't real.

 

 

[almondbutterandjelly]

I just called them "fake gods" and my dd understood.  It really wasn't a problem, and those stories are important to know about, culturally.

[Bluegoat]

From another perspective - it might be useful to think about what the purpose of telling these stories are - that likely makes it a little clearer why it isn't something to be worried about.

 

Mythology is how people try and talk about their relation to the Divine, poetically.  Most religion is expressed in one of two ways - poetically, or philosophically.  The former approach is the older one, though you see both in many religions.  If you want to think about how human beings search for God, how they understand and interpret his self-revelation through creation, you need to read their poetry.  

 

And for that matter, as Christians this gives a lot of important insight into our own literature, although it tends toward the philosophic expression in many cases.  And yet the Christians who shaped our philosophic expression knew and understood these methods of poetic expression, and they were important in how they understood the Christian revelation. 

 

Ultimately, we all have some freedom to choose what we believe - you can't stop children from growing up to have that freedom, or from having it now, but keeping them ignorant that others don't always have the same practice of religion.  That capacity comes fro God and he's got a handle on it.

[RosieGamgee]

Thank you, bluegoat, for the thoughtful reply.

 

There seems to be a misunderstanding in the responses here regarding what my intentions were in asking the question I did.  Please know that I am not the sort of parent who intentionally wants to "keep my children ignorant" - if I were, I wouldn't be on this particular forum.  Everything that everyone has said so far I agree with and I fully plan on exposing my children to mythology, in full, when my particular children are at an age and maturity level where I, their mother, feel that they are *ready* for that exposure.  My 9 yo is ready, my 7yo and 5yo I'm not sure if they are or not.  I completely agree that it is important for them to have this knowledge for understanding of both other cultures and of the underpinnings of our own culture.

 

With that out of the way, the reason I asked the question was I wondered if there was anyone but me who had wrestled with the question and what others' conclusions were, in particular regarding the question of age of introduction.  I was not asking, should I keep my children ignorant of this material until they're eighteen ;)

 

Perhaps it would help others to understand why I am more worried about this than most folks if I shared a story from my own childhood.  I was raised in a thoroughly nonreligious home as a young child.  NO exposure whatsoever to ANY religious material of any kind.  I really didn't even have much exposure to fairy tales.  In third grade I discovered the fairy tale section at our local library and Edith Hamilton's classic Mythology that my mom just had on her shelf.  I was enthralled, and I *really* *actually* believed what I was reading to be true!  I remember one day during recess at school, running by myself off in a corner of the field, spontaneously raising both arms to the sky and worshiping the sun and Zeus the Father, intentionally and consciously worshiping gods I thought were real.  I had a desire to worship.  Some folks may think this is a cute little story, and some will think the problem was not my exposure to myth but the fact that I had no parental guidance.  For me, having been that child and having that memory, I can't help feeling a little disturbed - a little sad for the child I once was, and a little worried for my own children who are growing up with one parent a Christian and one an agnostic.  Perhaps I'm worried where I don't need to be, but I'm just wrestling with my feelings about it.

[Bluegoat]

I don't think that's an unusual story, but I'd also say, that's being moved by God.  If children are moved by stories like that, it isn't a bad thing - that was C.S. Lewis' first experience of that kind of impulse, through Norse myth.  He knew the Christian stories, but they didn't have that sense of strangeness, I think, that can be so affecting.  It lead him to a great personal religious journey that affected many others.

 

Perhaps that is something to think about in one's home life - not all forms and practices of Christianity really offer that mystical realm, and that may make children look elsewhere to satisfy those impulses.  But in any case, I think God is happy in general when people are moved to him, even if it is through nature or poetry.  Kids typically have an incomplete theological understanding that is refined over time, and that's normal.  There isn't, thank goodness, some kind of demand that it is perfect all along, or really even ever.

[RosieGamgee]

Thank you so much, bluegoat!

[Kiara.I]

I guess in answer to your expansion I'd say, all of my children were ready to distinguish between myth and reality by 5.  Probably earlier, really...4?  My current 5-year-old is very pragmatic and very down-to-earth, and has a rich fantasy life at the same time.

 

Just based on my childhood experience vs. yours, I'd wonder if maybe it was *not* exposing you to any such things that left you in doubt about what was real vs. not, whereas exposing much younger would have removed the conflict?  I mean, that's a sample size of 2, so it's not worth much.  ;)

 

But yes if you, as mom, feel that your children cannot yet distinguish, I do think it could be an issue.

Do you children have a lot of exposure to fantasy?  I'd assume so, given your screen name.  ;)  Do they easily distinguish between fact and fiction?

[misty.warden]

You know your kiddos readiness better than we do, are you're just wanting to put off reading those stories for a little later that's exactly what I did. Not specifically because I didn't like those stories but because I wanted my son to have a firm foundation in biblical history first, then in 2nd-3rd grade we started ancient mythology and history. I think this allowed us to talk about how the ancients (mis)perceived God in their lives as well as what they got right.

 

D'aulaire's Norse myths was especially good for this as the book slowly shows the change in the gods from being virtuous in their own way to increasingly dishonest and chaotic on the way to Ragnarok. One Egyptian pharaoh tried to institute monotheism to the sun god Aten but it didn't last, which was a pretty good lesson on how one might have revelation and still fall away.

 

Other people might disagree that this is the right way to go about it, framing history and mythology through a Christian lens, but that's what my family chooses to do and it works for us. I felt the same way as a child, the desire to worship but no real guidance from non-religious family, so once I found God it felt right to share that with my kids as truth before any other truths (all religions and belief systems that I've encountered have some) because it's that important.

 

 

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[LMD]

We did find that immersing our young children in stories of other religious mythology was not what we wanted to do. We held off for a little while, then we used Simply Charlotte Mason history. I used Story of the World as independent reading for older children (my 10 year old is reading #3 now)

[Peaceseeker]

I decided to wait til closer to the logic stage to run through ancient history. I did geography and American history in elementary grades. We started ancients after that and are now going chronologically. I had a more Charlotte Mason approach than classical overall for elementary though. It worked for our family but my kids were a bit closer in age. I guess it depends on if you are trying to do the multiple sweeps through history chronologically or not.

[Ausmumof3]

I would say my five year old occasionally needs a reminder that in our family these myths are viewed in a different way than bible stories. If you are secular (as many of the posters responding) it's not an issue but I do see the stories in the bible as different so I don't want my kids seeing them in the same way as the myths.

 

That said I think the best way is not to ignore the myths so much as to really educate well in the bible.

 

I also don't think an in depth knowledge of mythology is actually that important. I know that's controversial but I read and enjoyed many of the classics as an adult and met Odysseus and many of the others in adulthood as well. An overview is fine.

 

That said you could just skip the myth bits on Sotw if you want to. They are there but they are mostly segregated from the text by a heading and could easily be skipped over.

[Clemsondana]

We used the Core Knowledge series, and it grouped mythology in the same section as literature and folk tales. Even though we read the myths in conjunction with learning the history, my kids tended to process it as 'folk tales from Ancient Greece', on par with Paul Bunyon or Aesop's Fables. They knew the concept of 'false gods' from the Bible and my history-loving kId was fascinated that these were the same times and same gods, but I don't think that my 'get it done' kid gave it that much thought in the early grades.

[mamaraby]

Well we skip the Bible stories in SOTW Ancients because I don’t care for the way they’re handled. I think she does a better job with the other mythologies, but even then, I’m likely to find alternate and/or additional sources.

 

I don’t believe in any gods and so far have children who do not believe in gods either. They did not have difficulties seeing all myths as stories human beings have used to explain the world around them. YMMV, but if there’s something that makes you uncomfortable then adjust it for your purposes. You can delay or just edit it along the way. You don’t have to do things as written.

[kiwik]

My kids could not sit through SOTW until 7 and 9 so you may find your younger 2 pay no attention. You could read a section at bedtimr to just the older 1 or 2.

[RosieGamgee]

Thank you all for your contributions!

[2_girls_mommy]

My kids are older, but I started them young with mythology by explaining to them that humans have always had an innate desire to know the One True God, and in the absence of that knowledge they fill that void with stories of their own invention. Half my kids are adults now, and they are strong in their Christian faith.

Same here. I teach co-op classes on Roman History and always approach it this way too, for all ages. God hadn't revealed Himself yet to these peoples, but they were created by Him and searching for Him. The stories are no different than fairytales or fables to my kids.

[Ravin]

Okay, from the point of view of a contemporary polytheistic Pagan, I suggest you consider these stories in the same light I consider stories from the Christian Bible: they are part of the fabric of story which influences the way we think and the stories we tell up to today. It's general cultural knowledge, not necessarily because it's what you believe, but because it provides a foundation to understand references later on in literature, philosophy, and so on.

[Milknhoney]

I introduced mythology to my kids right along with SOTW volume 1. My son was 5 and my daughter was 6. I did not have any difficulties in getting them to understand that the myths were fiction while the Bible is truth. I told them to view the gods more like we view superheros today. As we read through them, it is very obvious to find human-like character flaws in their behavior, which you wouldn't see in our True Creator. I pointed these out as we read. I also explained how as the biblical stories got passed down through the generations, they were in some cases corrupted. This is why you can find flood stories in so many cultures that are similar to but not the same as Genesis. It's interested to read the other flood stories which, in a way, confirm the truth of the flood in that it was recorded in so many cultures. Also, another fun exercise is to study the Egyptian gods and then read the plague story in Exodus. It's interesting to parallel the specific plagues with the gods and see how each plague is, in a sense, a judgement on that god. 

 

I don't think SOTW portrays specific rituals but you might screen any additional literature you find. There's a few "You Wouldn't Want to..." books that cross the line. Personally, I like the books that just give you a straight representation of the story. Some books like to weave in spiritual commentary, elevating and glorifying the god or belief system. I avoid those. D'Aulaire's Greek Myths and Norse Myths are fine.

[RootAnn]

I have heard this argument a few times and while I understand the fear behind it, I haven't seen any issues with teaching mythology to my kids when they are young. They are able to understand science references (planet names, for instance), literature references, and enjoy many for-fun reading books as they get older. They enjoy the stories and have no issue differentiating mythology with the Christian beliefs that I teach separately.

[goldenecho]

The only detailed description of rituals was the process of mummification.  When we covered this, I actually didn't read about it in SOTW, but read a part of a unit I had picked up on Teachers Pay Teachers (Science of Ancient Egypt: Mummies by Dr. Daves Science) that talked about the science of mummification.  It wasn't because I was worried about him hearing about the ritual (I don't remember anything particularly inappropriate in the SOTW version) but just because I thought he'd be interested in the science.

 

I don't recall detailed descriptions of rituals in SOTW.
 

 

Edited November 7, 2017 by goldenecho

[LMD]

Yeah, calling it fear is a stretch. We all have our priorities.

[SilverMoon]

I've exposed mine from the time they were little. No regrets, and I'd do it again in a heartbeat. I'm currently reading the McCaughrean version of The Odyssey to my youngest kids, 7 and 9 year olds. The cannibal giants left the 9yo a little scandalized, but the 7yo pretended to scoop up tiny sailors and gobble them. LOL (He's such a picky eater he'd never make it as a cannibal; no worries there. :P)

 

Do they know who Superman and Wonder Woman are? Superheroes are today's Zues and Poseidon. We no longer need gods to understand storms and seasons, but we still LOVE stories of heroes triumphing over evil. Every culture has something. :)

 

I have a book recommendation, but not for the children. Surprised by Joy by C.S. Lewis, for you. His experience was very different from yours and its a pleasant read. I really enjoyed it. :)

Edited November 7, 2017 by SilverMoon

[Laura Corin]

For what it's worth I prayed to a tree for a bit when I was a child. I hadn't read about tree worship and I was attending a Christian school. Kids just get ideas. It didn't last long and hasn't any relevance to my later religious direction.

[themeanlady]

Hi, OP, I'm in a similar marriage. My husband is a man without any definable religious beliefs, but after having a radical experience with God two years ago, I went from being a nominal Christian to a head-over-heels-in-love-with-Jesus one. So, like another poster, I explain that the gods I read about with my 5 year old are fake gods. In fact, I take it a step further and explain 1 Corinthians 10:20-21. The only reason the "fake gods" of ancient times held any allure was because they did have real power, but it was an evil power. 

 

Consider how Pharaoh's men were able to duplicate God's signs with Moses and Aaron; many modern day theologians assume it was trickery, but the Bible indicates that the enemy had rule and dominion over the world after usurping Adam and Eve from their position as God's administrators/ambassadors/children. You may want to consider John 14:30 and other verses where Jesus and Paul and many others refer to Satan as god of this world, prince of the power of the air, ruler of the darkness of the world, etc. The "theology" I subscribe to is found here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_theology

 

The best way to counter any chance of your children turning away from God is to introduce them to him. I'm not saying just to read the Bible to them or teach them to pray but to create opportunities for them to experience him. There are some great activities for kids on this website: https://www.unlockingthegold.com/tag/prophetic-activations-for-kids/

 

And here is more of a picture book. It's expensive, but I think it's worth it. Besides introducing friendship with God as a natural and fun thing, it has some advice for parents and includes great tips for dealing with nightmares and scary things that go bump in the night (hint: you invite Jesus in and watch him take care of the scary stuff. For my son, Jesus frequently shows up as Batman, which made him laugh with surprise the first time it happened) : https://www.amazon.com/Children-Can-You-Hear-Me/dp/0973358610

 

Here is a book that is geared a little higher than your age group but would probably be adaptable for some really good, fun prayer experiences: https://www.amazon.com/Imaginative-Prayer-Yearlong-Spiritual-Formation/dp/0830846255

 

I pray for breakthrough in your marriage, for God's love to flow through you and reach your husband. I bless your children in each of their journeys. I feel like your children all have very different personalities and will grow up to be uniquely different, but they will be grounded in your teaching. You are very protective and want to do the right thing. I bless you with discernment and the ability to weigh and measure the advice you receive. I feel like you may have a very sensitive little girl, and it's definitely not wrong to want to protect her. At the same time, information is knowledge, so you want to arm her with the full of armor of God. God's kingdom is counter-intuitive. In the physical realm, we think of the biggest and bravest being the strongest. In God's kingdom, the greatest weapon against the enemy is love. I bless your family with more love.

 

I have a mental picture of a knotted rope, and it's like you're pulling this rope. The rope doesn't seem to have an end, but as you pull the rope, it's piling up behind you, and your children are playing with it. They're discovering things to do with it that you hadn't thought of. I feel like this is how you approach God. You're hungry for more of him, you're constantly going for more, and you're delighted when your children receive revelation of who he is because of your efforts. You are a good mother. He delights in you. I also see the rope has turned into an elaborate netting. It's like you were only pulling on one part of who God is, and he has so much he wants to show you. I bless your journey too! I bless you with growth.

 

And since I'm apparently sending a million links your way, here's another. I feel like this song sings your heart:

[SporkUK]

The way I found we enjoyed starting to get into mythology was comparatively. They found it harder to discuss and connect between the stories from the same pantheon but enjoyed it more when the stories were from different ones trying to explore the same ideas. I've not really found books for their ages have much in detail about the rituals. 

 

A book I really like and recommend is In The Beginning: Creation Myths from Around the World by Virginia Hamilton. It was a really great way to discuss common things people tried to explain about how we got here and common tropes in those explanations. My older two took turns reading these aloud and then we'd all discuss them. There were great conversations . Sometimes the younger two got involved (one involves a giant, my youngest liked acting him our) but more often than not, they were happy to be doing other things.