Granny_Weatherwax Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 (edited) Without Googling or doing an internet search... What do you believe is the origin of this saying? It was referenced in a book I began reading today and was accompanied by a brief history of the phrase. I am surprised that it had nothing to do with what I thought it was referencing. I'll share in a bit what the book says and what I believed. Edited October 23, 2017 by Scoutermom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrganicJen Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Hmm..being a textile artist my guess is it would have something to do with purchasing yards of fabric and maybe some fabric came on 9 yard bolts. I really have no idea though. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Football? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 No idea; something nautical? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 I always assumed it had something to do with either football or a bolt of fabric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Fabric. And I used to know this, if I recall correctly. Haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wendy not in HI Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 I thought maybe the whole amount of fabric on a bolt, but googling it did not actually helping clarify the origination... I’m curious about what your book referenced? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny_Weatherwax Posted October 23, 2017 Author Share Posted October 23, 2017 (edited) When it's used like "She went the whole nine yards." I've thought it meant she went above and beyond and did everything possible in order to get the job done. The fabric reference made sense to me. I thought that maybe 9 yards of fabric was a standard for making dresses at some point in history and using all 9 yards meant the dress was full and fashionable and something remarkable. Or that it was some obscure golf reference...I don't play golf but for some reason have always thought the phrase might have to do with putting and how far to hit the golf ball. The book's reference is about neither of those. ETA: spelling of golf ball; although for some people it is a gold ball Edited October 23, 2017 by Scoutermom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanne in ABQ Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 You said no google or internet, so I looked it up in a book! Ha! (The Facts on File: Dictionary of Cliches) According to the book, the original reference is considered "lost", but there are actually three theories about the original meaning. I won't post them yet. I'll wait until more people have posted their guesses. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 (edited) According to Wikipedia the origin of the phrase has not been definitively determined (don't click if you haven't guessed yet!) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_whole_nine_yards Edited October 23, 2017 by maize 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny_Weatherwax Posted October 23, 2017 Author Share Posted October 23, 2017 You said no google or internet, so I looked it up in a book! Ha! (The Facts on File: Dictionary of Cliches) According to the book, the original reference is considered "lost", but there are actually three theories about the original meaning. I won't post them yet. I'll wait until more people have posted their guesses. Loopholes. :) I wonder if this book's origin story is one of the three. I can't wait to find out. Thank you for not sharing yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 It seems like I remember it actually being about ammo...like a WWII reference or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 This article makes a strong argument for one common theory (don't click if you haven't made a guess yet!) https://esnpc.blogspot.com/2015/02/nine-yards-to-dollar-history-and.html?m=1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny_Weatherwax Posted October 23, 2017 Author Share Posted October 23, 2017 According to Wikipedia the origin of the phrase has not been definitively determined: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_whole_nine_yards No internet searching, Maize. I'm looking to see what people think the origin is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 No internet searching, Maize. I'm looking to see what people think the origin is. Well, I did post a guess before searching anything. I figured others who wanted to could guess before clicking any links :) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny_Weatherwax Posted October 23, 2017 Author Share Posted October 23, 2017 This article makes a strong argument for one common theory (don't click if you haven't made a guess yet!) https://esnpc.blogspot.com/2015/02/nine-yards-to-dollar-history-and.html?m=1 This is similar to what I thought the origin was. Go me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawthorne44 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 I haven't read all the replies, because I want to post my guess before I read the answer. But, I heard a convincing argument for Kilts. As in, they were supposed to take 9 yards of fabric. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty ethel rackham Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 My husband's uncle once said something about having to do with concrete ... that 9 yards was a full truck of concrete. Which was then extrapolated to meant going all out. But, then again, he was a concrete finisher and was actually not correct about 9 yards being a full truck (10 cubic yards.) Off to do some internet sleuthing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornblower Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 my guess is nautical 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 I haven't read all the replies, because I want to post my guess before I read the answer. But, I heard a convincing argument for Kilts. As in, they were supposed to take 9 yards of fabric. Among Scottish folks, this is the answer. :-) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimm Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 I always assumed football. But I'm from Texas where everything is about football. :) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanne in ABQ Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 my guess is nautical Of course it is, Hornblower! :D 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornblower Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Of course it is, Hornblower! :D Of course :P And sail ships have yards and yardarms... but I have to admit I don't know why 9 should be the magic number so this is starting to make less sense.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanne in ABQ Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 (edited) Well, since all the theories in my book have been guessed, I'm going to go ahead and post the entry (from "The Facts on File Dictionary of Cliches") whole nine yards, the - The entire distance; the whole thing. The source of this term has been lost, but as usual there are several etymological theories. The following were suggested by William Safire’s correspondents: - nine yards once constituted the entire amount put onto a bolt of cloth, and for an ornate garment, the “whole nine years†would be used; - the standard large cement mixer holds nine yards of cement, and a big construction job would use up the “whole nine yardsâ€; - in a square-rigged, three-masted sailing ship, of former times, each mast carried three “yards†(the spars supporting the sails), and the expression “whole nine yards†would mean that the sails were fully set (three masts holding three yards each would make nine yards). Edited October 23, 2017 by Suzanne in ABQ 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Kilts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxbridgeacademy Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 I've always thought it was a football reference to having to go the whole distance (to a 1st down?). More or less meaning you have to do it all from start to finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mothersweets Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 I'm guessing something nautical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corraleno Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 This article makes a strong argument for one common theory (don't click if you haven't made a guess yet!) https://esnpc.blogspot.com/2015/02/nine-yards-to-dollar-history-and.html?m=1 That's a great article — very well researched and quite convincing that this particular explanation is the correct one. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guinevere Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 I thought it was the length of the machine gun ammo for the guns mounted in the Windows of military aircraft. Off to read the links now! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 I've actually looked it up before and went away unsatisfied. Half of everything I look up ultimately boils down to "origin uncertain". 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraidycat Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 (edited) Fabric. A big, Fancy dress, using “the whole nine yardsâ€. ETA: I went back and read the replies and maize’s link. I see I’m not the only one who has absorbed this explanation from somewhere at some point in time. Edited October 23, 2017 by fraidycat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassenach Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 It always comes back around to kilts around here, lol. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nansk Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 I originally guessed it may have something to do with sports. I was wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hepatica Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 This brings me back to the early 80s and my sophomore English teacher (yes, I was in high school in the early 80s) who had a total love affair with William Safire. I remember taking up an entire class period talking about "the whole nine yards." And, I still don't remember where it came from. I think Safire wrote multiple columns on it. I recall something military sticking in my mind.... now I will have to go look it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 (edited) I know because I have looked it up in the past, a long time ago, maybe even from high school days. Edited October 23, 2017 by DawnM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawz4me Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 I always thought it was the amount of cloth needed to make a fancy, full length lady's gown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 (edited) [Dp Edited October 23, 2017 by Laura Corin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 It always comes back around to kilts around here, lol. The kilt idea is odd, because you would expect a Scots or Scottish Gaelic phrase, not an English one, if it was a widely used phrase. Here's an article on varying fabric usage.http://www.tartansauthority.com/resources/archives/the-archives/newsome/kilts-and-yardage/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janeway Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Doing everything. Going all the way and going everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinder Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 (edited) Years ago at the county fair we decided to watch the animal competitions. One was for horses to show their strength by pulling a heavy load "the whole nine yards." Those that succeeded could move up in the contest with heavier loads. The emcee said these old-time contests were the origin of the saying. I've never bothered to check that; we didn't have internet back then. 😠Edited October 23, 2017 by Cinder 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny_Weatherwax Posted October 23, 2017 Author Share Posted October 23, 2017 It's interesting to learn that there are so many origin stories. I guess I will have to subscribe to the "no one knows" category. Here's the story from my current book: "The term "the whole nine yards" came from World War Two fighter pilots in the South Pacific. When arming their airplanes on the ground, the .50 caliber machine gun ammo belts measured exactly 27 feet, before being loaded into the fuselage. If the pilots fired all their ammo at the target, it got "the whole nine yards"." The above assumes the phrase wasn't used until WW2. If it was used before that, as shown through Maize's links, then this is just a good story. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halftime Hope Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 I can't post links, but if you google "the whole nine yards" and "New York Times", the article (Dec 26, 2012) includes a lot of the popular theories, and some additional information about usages earlier in time that referred to "the whole seven yards". Which calls into question some of the theories that hinge around the number 9. There is a follow up article (Part 2 of sorts), same newspaper, following week. All of it is inconclusive at best. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 I found it interesting that usage picked up in the Vietnam War era; at that point I would think it must have lost most association with fabric if that is indeed where it started. Colloquialisms are hard to track because they don't make it into print very often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 It always comes back around to kilts around here, lol. Absolutely. :-) Here's an entertaining article about kilts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassenach Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 (edited) Absolutely. :-) Here's an entertaining article about kilts. I think this breaks the no celebrity photos rule (which is truly sad). Edited October 23, 2017 by Sassenach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucy the Valiant Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Having just recently purchased fabric of a length greater than 8 yards, my guess would also be related to bolts of fabric. :) (PSA: Modern bolts of fabric, in the USA, are 8 yards long. In case you need to know. :) ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cindy in FL. Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 How can something so right be wrong?! 😀 I think this breaks the no celebrity photos rule (which is truly sad). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbutton Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 I thought it was the length of the machine gun ammo for the guns mounted in the Windows of military aircraft. Off to read the links now! Me too! I have heard this many places, and I had never heard the other ones. Interesting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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